Got some drawing/art related questions, anyone mind helping?

[Danny Blank]

Hey, I've just spent like an hour trying to get the lines on a drawing from a photo reference correct. I was stuck on the shoulder so I took a picture of it besides my pc screen and then I saw where I was going wrong the angle of the shoulder line was off by like 2 degrees or so. I figured this out before my friend (who I had asked for help on why it looked off) responded.

He then told me "You shouldn't be using straight lines", to which I replied "why should I use curves if I can't even do lines(in different phrasing)"
he said it confuse organic forms.

Now my questions are as follows.

Should I spend as long as I want on getting the lines correct? (Is an hour way too long? because I'm thinking if I do it slowly the first few times ill speed up eventually)

Or should I just try and do as many as possible?

Does it matter if they are straight lines at first that eventually turn into curves?

Was he right about straight lines confusing organic forms?

When I start drawing I normally do a mark for the length of a certain point, normally the shoulders, and then I use that as the width and from that line I get my hight (by comparing it with my eye) and then I build a rough shape for the chest and work from there is this generally the better way of drawing something ?

Should I draw whatever way feels good for me? (using straight lines checking the angles then making them curves)

I should practice drawing from life right? (I mean I'm only drawing from pictures off the net)

Anything that you can recommend I do on a daily basis to get better at drawing?

Should I invest in a wooden manikin?

Any tips on starting gesture drawing?

What matters most when drawing getting it right or getting it done?

Also does drawing a photo count as drawing from life? I mean it's a static non moving object/person.

[Zazerzs]

ill give it a go.

1st 2 im not sure about, but line quality is important and a skill to be learned so if it takes a while in the beginning i'm sure that's fine.

Q) Does it matter if they are straight lines at first that eventually turn into curves?

A) go with straight line 1st, they give a clear sense of direction. Curves and arabesques come 2nd.

Q)Was he right about straight lines confusing organic forms?
A)No, I believe he was wrong.

Q)When I start drawing I normally do a mark for the length of a certain point, normally the shoulders, and then I use that as the width and from that line I get my hight (by comparing it with my eye) and then I build a rough shape for the chest and work from there is this generally the better way of drawing something ?
A) This sounds perfectly fine. keep it up. might want to mark of its notional space as well.

Q)Should I draw whatever way feels good for me? (using straight lines checking the angles then making them curves)
A)I would suggest using straight lines 1st.

Q)I should practice drawing from life right? (I mean I'm only drawing from pictures off the net)
A.) yes right away :) also draw from master artists drawings, you'll see their use of straight lines, arabesques ect.

Q)Anything that you can recommend I do on a daily basis to get better at drawing?
A.) yup Draw! anatomy studies,perspective studies, drawing boxes, spheres. try not to doodle.

Q)Should I invest in a wooden manikin?
A) no, they don't seem very useful after you get the idea that the body is made out of solid shapes. A skeleton or a skull would be a better investment.

Q)Any tips on starting gesture drawing?
A) sure, 1st strike the line of action, or thrust of the pose, then find its major arabesque, mark the angles of the shoulders,head and hips fill in what ya can before time expires.

Q)What matters most when drawing getting it right or getting it done?
A) a bit of both really, but since right can be objective I'd go with done.

Q)does drawing a photo count as drawing from life? I mean it's a static non moving object/person.
A) nope, its a flat representation, you are relying on the cameras information and not your eyes.

NOW start a sketchbook and get posting so we can be of more help :)

GOODLUCK! oh and check out this vid, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSYFzODDP4&feature=channel it talks alittle about why straightlines are so cool

[Danny Blank]

thanks man that was really helpful

[JJacks]

Some of my two cents on a couple of questions...

Was he right about straight lines confusing organic forms?
What he may have meant was that straight lines don't exist in organic forms. It's fine to use strait lines at first; I use them to get angles and proportions right but for your figure to look believable, you would have to use more organic and curved lines and shapes.


What matters most when drawing getting it right or getting it done?
Many people have varying definition on what "done" is. Work for accuracy. If you are studying something make it count, fix your mistakes. I think reworking something a lot and not entirely finishing it is more helpful than doing a study and making your same mistakes but getting it "done." I assume you don't have deadlines for your art.

[Danny Blank]

Thing is we were in the same games dev class and the only thing the teacher would ever say is "no straight lines exist in the human form" then again he never did like modelling that much so maybe he didn't pay attention.

What's funny about "reworking something a lot and not entirely finishing it is more helpful than doing a study and making your same mistakes but getting it "done."" Yesterday I did a drawing/study whatever you call drawing from life and all I tried to do was get it done, I didn't check my lines before I started to shade just like the first time (I've only ever done shading/value work once) and it came out looking like crap just like my first one I spotted everywhere I went wrong but it was too far gone to change the lines.

This time (The drawing I was talking about in my first post) although it wasn't finished it was much better then the other 2 because I checked and rechecked the lines and I took my time.

By the way I intentionally left out the sketchbook because I removed the first drawing because it was quite quite bad, ill update it soon.

[Elwell]

What matters most when drawing getting it right or getting it done?

Getting it done right.

[dcorc]

Hey, I've just spent like an hour trying to get the lines on a drawing from a photo reference correct. I was stuck on the shoulder so I took a picture of it besides my pc screen and then I saw where I was going wrong the angle of the shoulder line was off by like 2 degrees or so. I figured this out before my friend (who I had asked for help on why it looked off) responded.

He then told me "You shouldn't be using straight lines", to which I replied "why should I use curves if I can't even do lines(in different phrasing)"
he said it confuse organic forms.

Bodies are not made up of straight lines. They are made up of curves. However - I'll repeat the advice I gave you last friday at the V&A - in general, starting by drawing straight line-segments as an approximation to the curves is useful - as it helps identify both the overall direction of the more nearly straight segments - and it helps identify the placement and extent of the change of curvature at points of inflection, such as where the curve changes direction in going over a bony prominence.

It is easier to get the overall shapes and proportions right by starting out with straight lines than with curves (as, starting with curves, you need to get the right curvature)

Now my questions are as follows.

Should I spend as long as I want on getting the lines correct? (Is an hour way too long? because I'm thinking if I do it slowly the first few times ill speed up eventually)

I think you should spend time doing starts, getting the lines correct. Really taking your time doing it very accurately, even once or twice, will teach skills thatr doing endless quick (and inaccurate) ones will not. As you said, you will speed up with practice.

Or should I just try and do as many as possible?

A few painstakingly accurate will be better than knocking out loads of fast inaccurate ones.

Does it matter if they are straight lines at first that eventually turn into curves?

No, that's precisely what I'm recommending.

Was he right about straight lines confusing organic forms?

No, he's not right. Many very experienced draughtsmen and painters start in this fashion - aside from the video you've already seen of Myron Barnstone (Myron's a serious heavy hitter on drawing, by the way - http://www.barnstonestudios.com/ )

I'd also suggest you look at the demos by Jacob Collins:
http://www.artistsnetwork.com/article/figure-drawing-demo

see particularly his stages 1 to 4 - and note he's prepared to spend quite a bit of time on the construction stage to get it right, first finding overall angles, lengths and proportions, and then finding and plotting out the shapes of the edges of shadows across the figure.

David Kassan
84s3I-1SZHo

and Tony Ryder
http://www.tonyryder.com/demo/block_in/index_slideshow.htm


When I start drawing I normally do a mark for the length of a certain point, normally the shoulders, and then I use that as the width and from that line I get my hight (by comparing it with my eye) and then I build a rough shape for the chest and work from there is this generally the better way of drawing something ?

Should I draw whatever way feels good for me? (using straight lines checking the angles then making them curves)

Check all your lines against each other for lengths, positions, and angles, and for the shapes (both positive space, and negative space) they enclose.

I should practice drawing from life right? (I mean I'm only drawing from pictures off the net)

Anything that you can recommend I do on a daily basis to get better at drawing?

Should I invest in a wooden manikin?

I'd suggest initially a mixture of drawing from life and from 2D sources. Ateliers often start people on Bargue plates, which are lithographs which are in some respects simplified, and then move on to cast drawings - this is why I'm suggesting V&A sculpture drawing is a good exercise.

Any tips on starting gesture drawing?

Yes - in your particular situation - at the moment - don't. Work on these more static approaches a little first, because....

What matters most when drawing getting it right or getting it done?

getting it right, first. Accuracy, then speed. Gestural drawings teach useful things about dynamic poses and balance, weight distribution, and "the line" (as ballet dancers call it). But lets get basic static drawings reasonably accurate first. Doing so is not going to prejudice your ability to do good gestural work also in due course.

Also does drawing a photo count as drawing from life? I mean it's a static non moving object/person.

No - it teaches some different skills. Its good for accuracy, but has already solved the 3D > 2D translation for you. Working from statues teaches you that, and also how the play of light and shadow depicts form. Working from real live people teaches being able to draw from a figure which is not holding absolutely still.


Dave

[Zazerzs]

@ Dcorc I concur :) good advice.