i am looking for a watercolor set

[Vay]

i find alot of water color set on the internet and i need help on which one is the best to buy.

also does the book on oil painting by harold speed apply to water color as well?

or do i need to buy a separate book on water coloring? if so which on is good because i find alot of books in barnes and nobles that sells water color books.

EDIT:more questions

what are cold press papers? how are they different from others?

do you always soak paper in water first then watercolor it?

if i soak paper in water i don't think i should put it on my desk, i saw on youtube that there is a board where you can wet it and put the wet watercolor paper on the wet board to get rid of wrinkles, do you just use any board for that?

[Asatira]

I would suggest getting a book on watercolors over getting one on oils. The two are very separate mediums and don't work the same resulting in very different approaches and theory.

[Viridis]

Watercolor is NOTHING like oil painting, so don't try to use a book for one on the other, it's just going to end badly.

For watercolors, if you're just starting out, I recommend a decent student brand that won't bankrupt you but will still perform well. I tend to use mostly Grumbacher and Cotman (Windsor-Newton) for this purpose. They're cheap (usually around $2-3 a tube at my local store) but still give good colors. Later you can move on to things like Da Vinci that are pricier if you really like them.

As for watercolor books... I wish I was in class at the moment so I could look through my teacher's stash. I don't have a lot of art how-to books myself so I can't given many recommendations there. :/

[Bentley]

Don't buy a set, just buy a lot off ebay of different paints.

[Ninjerk]

Watercolor is NOTHING like oil painting, so don't try to use a book for one on the other, it's just going to end badly.

For watercolors, if you're just starting out, I recommend a decent student brand that won't bankrupt you but will still perform well. I tend to use mostly Grumbacher and Cotman (Windsor-Newton) for this purpose. They're cheap (usually around $2-3 a tube at my local store) but still give good colors. Later you can move on to things like Da Vinci that are pricier if you really like them.

As for watercolor books... I wish I was in class at the moment so I could look through my teacher's stash. I don't have a lot of art how-to books myself so I can't given many recommendations there. :/

My teacher teaches with Prang 16-color sets! Don't use the brush included, though.

This is a demo he did for one of his watercolor classes with the 8 or the 16 set. I just texted one of my classmates to be sure.

EDIT: ...and look, the 16-set is only 3.61 before S&H! http://www.dickblick.com/products/prang-washable-watercolor-sets/

http://www.vilastonape.com/Images/rep/full/Elizabethlink.jpg

[Vay]

what type of brushes are crucial in watercolor painting?

i bought 3 from the store, a round tip, a slant tip and a sharp pointy tip.
round tip is medium out of the 3, slant tip is biggest and sharp pointy tip smallest.

[Viridis]

For brushes, it's mostly personal preference for the shape. I never use anything besides rounds in a variety of sizes, although it's also helpful to have a large flat brush for doing washes or wetting the paper.

You probably want rounds in standard sizes 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and maybe a 12 or 14 for washes, as mentioned. A chisel tip or flat brush can also be good for some details or textures.

It's also important to have at least somewhat good quality brushes. Cheap brushes won't hold enough water to do anything with them. I'm not saying you have to get sable or anything right away, but definitely some good synthetics are recommended. My brushes right now are mostly Princeton synthetics, which are fairly cheap (I don't think even the big ones were more than $5-6) but still work quite well and hold a fair amount of water.


And since it will probably come up, whether you're buying your paints in a set or not, you should probably have these basic colors (these were the 12 we were required to buy for my Watercolor I class, anyway):

-Cadmium Red Light + Medium, Alizarin Crimson, Cadmium Yellow, Sap Green, Hooker's Green, Cerulean Blue, Ultramarine Blue, Prussian Blue, Yellow Ochre, Burnt Sienna, Burnt Umber

You can also throw Payne's Grey in there too. Those are the staples though.

[Viridis]

My teacher teaches with Prang 16-color sets! Don't use the brush included, though.

This is a demo he did for one of his watercolor classes with the 8 or the 16 set. I just texted one of my classmates to be sure.

EDIT: ...and look, the 16-set is only 3.61 before S&H! http://www.dickblick.com/products/prang-washable-watercolor-sets/



Question: is your teacher teaching high school or college? I can see a high school using sets like that (and the demo picture is pretty good, proving it's all in how you use the materials) but I think my teacher for my college class would probably cringe just looking at that set.

Of course, our teacher also basically said "Yeah, you'll probably spend $60-80 just on your paints, but just be glad I'm not making you buy the sable brushes like my grad school teacher did", so everything is relative.

I personally prefer tube paints to pan sets (craft quality or not), but everybody's different.

[Ninjerk]

He's currently teaching at a community/newly-branded state college (they've introduced 3 or 4 Bachelors programs, I forget what they are), but the art should speak for itself. Perhaps I should also note that he's taught at SCAD and I believe was a visiting teacher or somesuch at Ringling.

vilastonape.com has his resume.

Here's the only other one I could find. I wish to god I could show the process pictures of the watercolor demo he did for the high school educators workshop.

http://vilastonape.com/Images/demo/full/Jackio,%202001,%20Watercolor%20on%20Paper,%2016x11 %20inches.jpg

In any case, unless you have hours and hours over years and years of representational experience I wouldn't think it would make that big of a difference in this case (I don't mean to make a generalization across all media, I used some bad pencils that hurt my tech for awhile in graphite).

[Bill]

My impression with watercolors is that to really be good with them you have to know a pretty good amount about the individual paints themselves. For instance some are more transparent than others, some are more "staining" and some (cerulean blue for instance) are heavy as hell and have a granular opaque look when applied. If you're gonna take a shot at getting decent with that media you'd probably be well served to take a look at the different characteristics of the pigments.

Tube paints are really nice to use right out of the tube. You can put down with some opacity which is cool. If it were me I'd start building a set of the professional grade and just start with less colors if need be. How many beginner watercolorists are going to make good use of 16 tubes in a painting? How many pros for that matter.

I think the standard for WC brushes, at least of the mass produced type, is the W&N Series 7. I've never used one but I know they're expensive but apparently worth it to many serious WC artists.

Good Luck.

[Vay]

one last question, i see on youtube that people paint water color on some board or plate that holds water to wet the paper, does the board have a name or it is just some board? is it an art supply?

[Ninjerk]

Tube paints are really nice to use right out of the tube. You can put down with some opacity which is cool. If it were me I'd start building a set of the professional grade and just start with less colors if need be. How many beginner watercolorists are going to make good use of 16 tubes in a painting? How many pros for that matter.

I think the standard for WC brushes, at least of the mass produced type, is the W&N Series 7. I've never used one but I know they're expensive but apparently worth it to many serious WC artists.

Good Luck.

A couple of things that concern me about this in particular, and partially in terms of general advice. If your 16-tube comment was in reference to the Prang set, it's a washable pan set with the flip-open lids serving a dual purpose as palettes. Nothing says he has to use all 16 of them (hell, one of them is white!), but he could be spending the same amount for a beginner's set that he would for 1-2 colors.

FlameRaven's advice about the brushes actually looks quite good. The Series 7s are so very expensive and I would guess unnecessary (although I believe I've seen some advice from Elwell to the contrary) for the OP. Coming in to the thread, he didn't even know there was a difference between oil painting and watercolor painting (aside from the substance itself) so what tells anyone that he needs to go spending upwards of 30 dollars on two brushes or a handful of paints?

[Jessica]

Try these. http://www.dickblick.com/products/reeves-watercolor-sets/
They're really good for how cheap they are so if you're just starting out you don't have to worry about "wasting" expensive paints. Tubes also last longer than pans and are better for doing bigger washes.

[Ninjerk]

A girl I know bought the travel box set: http://www.dickblick.com/products/winsor-and-newton-cotman-watercolor-pan-sets/

I thought it looked really cool (although she said the brush was crap).

[Vay]

does any1 know whats a cold press?

[Asatira]

Cold press is a form of watercolor paper that is considered an in-between kind of paper between ultra-smooth hot-press paper and the very irregular roughness of rough or homemade paper. Pretty much, it has moderate level of tooth or texture that is considered good for general watercolor painting. The tooth/texture keeps the paint from running around like crazy as it would with hot press (think a trying to control water on a piece of glass), but is not has high as rough or homemade, which is also irregular.

[Viridis]

does any1 know whats a cold press?

Cold press is a term describing how the paper is made. Cold press paper is pressed between two cooled plates of metal during production, producing a slightly rougher texture than "hot press," which is (as the name implies) pressed on hot metal and thus has a very smooth texture. Cold press is more textured than hot press, but not as textured as rough.

Cold press paper is generally recommended for beginning watercolor work, as it absorbs more water and makes things a little easier to manage than painting on hot press. It's mostly up to personal taste, though.

...and Asatira ninja'd me, but yeah. That's your answer.

[Ninjerk]

Get your inhalers and nitro kids, my teacher did a quick watercolor portrait to see how bad the cheap paper I'm using really is.

Prang Washable Watercolors (http://www.dickblick.com/products/prang-washable-watercolor-sets/), 16 color set: $3.61
Winsor & Newton Cotman Watercolor Brushes (http://www.dickblick.com/products/winsor-and-newton-cotman-watercolor-brushes/), #2, 4, 6, 8: $15.86
Princeton Hake Brush (http://www.dickblick.com/products/princeton-hake-brush/), 1": $1.75
Strathmore KIDS Paint Pad (http://www.artsuppliesonline.com/catalog.cfm?cata_id=2187), 20 sheets: $2.63

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=1192&pictureid=5874

Priceless

[Arshes Nei]

Frank Frazetta used Mickey Mouse paints so...it all depends on the handling. I believe brushes and paper are bigger considerations.

[CCThrom]

I believe brushes and paper are bigger considerations.

^ This.

Watercolor is a lot of fun... one of my personal favorite media, but it is VERY different than oils. General color theory works between media, but any sort of "how to" books should be specific to watercolor. I forget the title of the one I use, but there are plenty available.

Keep in mind that there are a LOT of different ways to work with watercolor... so the most important thing is to get your basic setup and start experimenting. You really do NOT need to spend a lot of money at first. Ninjerk's cheapo breakdown is perfectly fine.

Personally I like working with tube paints, but it's not necessary to start. If cost is an issue though, I'd say start with an affordable set of pan paints. You may even find that you prefer working with pans.

A good brush is nice, but you don't have to break the bank. Get a few different sized brushes and maybe invest in 1 or 2 good quality sables. Still, you might want to wait until you know what brushes are appropriate for the way you work before you do that.

As some folks stated, cold press paper has more "tooth" than hot press... it's surface and absorbency is great for watercolor so it's good to learn on. But if you want to work with mixed media, say graphite and watercolor, hot press is easier to draw on.

The wetting techniques shown are great... but ONLY if that's the way you want to work. You do not HAVE to work on wet paper. You need to try it though and find out if you like working that way. Are you noticing a pattern yet?

Vay, please I think you will do yourself a big favor if you just get a simple starter's setup and start working. You will never get all your questions answered first... and OUR answers may not be right for YOU. But the only way you'll know for sure is if you dive in.

If it helps to get you started, here is the setup that I actually use... note that some of this stuff is a bit more expensive than you might want to start with, but ninjerk's materials list is perfectly fine.

Paper:
Block pads of Arches
Cold press for practice, hot press for drawing (I work with graphite and watercolor a lot)
There are plenty of cheaper alternatives though.

Brushes:
#2, #4, & #6 Cotman synthetic rounds for general purpose
#1 & #2 W/N series 7 for details (the only not-cheap brushes on my list)
#6 & #8 Galleria synthetic flats for certain effects
a fan brush for other effects
a large (#8 I think) mop brush for washes
an even larger hake brush for large washes

Paints:
Ok I still think you should start with a pan set... anything really. If you like the medium, start adding tubes to the mix. Over time you'll get a nice collection.

Surface:
desk
If I want to work wet on wet and really soak the paper like on that video, I do have a portable drawing board with a plasticized surface. You may or may not want to work this way.

Other:
Plastic palette with a bunch of different color wells.
A glass jar and larger plastic tray for water.
Some rags and scrap paper for wiping brushes.

I hope this helps, now get going...