Help on pricing for a restaurant commission! HELP

[Samuel Gray]

Hey everyone. I haven't done too many commissions and recently I was asked to do some large oil paintings for this guy that is opening up a restaurant. He told me that it is a higher class type restaurant and that it would be more expensive.

After asking him what his budget what and time he said the restaurant would be opening up around mid october or something like that.
He said he is also Looking for large oils 40" to 60" wide --up to as 6 to 10 pieces
$1000 to 1500

And he sent me some pictures of paintings he was looking to be done or similar. I don't think he is very educated in the process of creating paintings, just what looks good to him.

http://aftercorbu.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/eye-of-god.jpg

http://www.victorbauer.com/sale/eveinthoughts.jpg



http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/artanddesign/gallery/2008/jul/08/art.design/06b-Wall-Scream2-2633.jpg

http://fineartamerica.com/images-medium/ancestral-dream-eugenia-mangra.jpg

http://www.victorbauer.com/eBay/rooms.jpg

http://www.victorbauer.com/sale/chianti.jpg


After looking at the time he wants these done, the size, and the prices in his budget it sounds like he is really undercutting anyone's talent. But who am I to really know.

If I wanted to charge for materials, the canvases of this size would be around 50$ each. So that's 1100 right there. Then for paint and other materials would be around 40$ or so for a few paintings I am guessing? This is already beginning to spike up. So as I start thinking about how long this would take me I look at my large charcoal pieces I usually do and those take around 25+ hours of actual research/drawing/painting. So for these, I could see 50" width sized canvas oil paintings to take around 20 hours of work. Say I wanted to charge at the minimum 20$/hr. So that would be 400$ or labor right there. Gah this is getting confusing...

I know these are a lot of numbers but this is a great opportunity for me, but I know if he will undercut what I should to get too far, then I will have to let it go. This is where I am lost...

Can anyone with this type of experience give me any insight or suggestions on what I should say to him or stick by? Thanks.

[Baron Impossible]

Your figures are rather confusing. First, how many does he want? He says 6 or 10? Is that 6, then, or 10?

But you say "canvases of this size would be around 50$ each. So that's 1100 right there" indicating that there are 22. So is it 6, 10 or 22?

Are they framed? What are they to be of? How much do you need to cover the work you envisage, and make a profit sufficient to live by?

I assume that he's offering $1K - $1.5K for the lot, although you don't say that. Is that right? If he's offering $1K for 10 then that's an insult. He couldn't get a decent print for that.

Step 1: Find out what he wants
Step 2: Find out the minimum you're prepared to accept
Step 3: Ask for more
Step 4: Reach an agreement and sign a contract, or not
Step 5: Do the paintings, or not

[Samuel Gray]

I am sorry Baron I wasn't calculating things correctly. I am pretty sure they won't be framed and just canvases. He was very up in the air of how many he wanted done and the prices so I am still trying to figure out what he really wants.

Say I did 6 pieces for him at around 40" on just canvases. What type of range would this package be in? I know 1k would be horrible.

[Baron Impossible]

Well I'm not an oil painter but I think the concept is the same whatever medium's being used. First, you need to get him to commit to what exactly he wants. You don't want to go forward with no real idea of the work involved.

I've had a look at your site and your art is very accomplished. It's not as if you're a beginner desperate for a break. So charge what you're worth. I don't know how long it would take you to produce a 40" oil painting but say it takes you 20 hours then I don't see $700-$800 per piece being in any way unreasonable, taking into account your expenditure on canvas, paint, etc. Obviously you don't want to bill by the hour but I'm just saying that as a measure of effort against pay. So yeah, around $4 - $5K would be my guess, but of course that's based on very limited information!

[RyerOrdStar]

I'd say way more than that, for 6-10 pieces that big and in oil. Don't forget you might have to hire a model. At least, that's what I would charge. And $20 an hour? Is your time worth less than a garbage man's?

[MiniGoth]

Each? Is ok.

For ten? Bwahahahahahah - and I'm not particularly good.

[2100]

Are you sure it's not $1500 per piece? That's still pretty low, and he's running a high class restaurants right? The high class restaurants in Vancouver usually hang established artists in the 50k range.

If it's really going to be $1500 for 10 paintings, and its just a paycheck to you.. Then just work as cheaply as possible. Buy the cheapest wood possible, you can probably do this under $10 ea. Buy a roll of 10 oz canvas, or the cheapest alternative (some old bed sheets or table cloth is ok). SIZE it with white glue and don't bother priming. You can paint the base coats with dollarstore tempura or acrylic, that will help seal the surface and cut costs. You can mix in some saw dust or whatever for texture/body. Just finish with some oil or a glaze of linseed oil. You shouldn't spend more than $250 for all your materials.

[arty]

Sounds like a commission that would be best to pass up. If you do good work for this price then it will be very difficult to get paid properly by people that see it there and speak to the owner of the restaurant.

If you do bad work, you undermine yourself.

Negotiate a proper fee or leave it behind. I'd suggest 1,500 per piece if you want to develop a reputation and grease the wheels but that's a minimum amount.

[J Wilson]

Do you get the feeling that this guy is opening an actual higher class restaurant, or that just the vibe he's hoping to go for? I've seen some restaurants try to make the place look nicer than it really is by using some cheap paintings, but there are so many corners cut they are really just looking for the illusion of nicer quality hoping they can charge more.

The reason why I ask, is if the guy really is opening a nice restaurant you can try telling him that his budget estimate for art is too low, and then negotiate for more. Break it down for him with at least a cost of materials and the amount of time that will be involved.

If the guy just wants the illusion of nice, then quality is less important to him. Use cheaper materials, and work fast. Depending on your skill level, you can probably do something fast that still looks artistic and nice. It just won't be as refined and well thought out as something you had spent more time on, but they aren't paying for that.

[kennygeeze]

if the guy is very unclear on what he wants then you should start with one piece only and negotiate on that. Once that piece is completed... if both of you are satisfied and he pays then at least you have a bit of a basis to go forward with the other pieces.

You have no idea if he's going to ask for tons of revisions, want lots of rough sketches, will constantly change his mind, or wind up screwing you over.

After doing one painting for him you'll both have an idea of what kind of process is involved that you can use for the other 5-10 (or whatever)....

Also if he does flake out then at least it's only over one piece rather than prep work for 10.
You'll also get a good idea on whether he'll pay you.

Maybe after doing one piece you'll realize he's such a nightmare you won't want to work for him ever again?