How can I improve when I doubt myself so much?

[Miriam B.]

Hello! I don't mean to whine with this post, I'm sorry if it looks like it. I'm only looking for some inspiration, because my situation seems kind of hopeless to me. Also, sorry if my English isn't as good as it should be.

I'm 18 years old right now, and because of personal reasons I dropped out of school, and I'm doing homeschooling right now. I won't lie, my career situation looks kind of bad. But all I ever wanted to do was something with art. Now, I could never draw very good, but I just can't convince myself to draw more so I can improve. I just have so many doubts of myself, so that my drawings seem very 'forced'. I can't really draw freely, because I don't think very highly my drawings. Maybe it's because I think I'll never be as good as all the great artists out there. I compare myself to others' skills too much.

I also tried to go to an art school to improve, but they wouldn't take me, said my drawings aren't good enough. I agree with them, but it's not really my fault. I know what you're going to tell me now. "Quit your whining and start drawing!", right? It's easier said than done. I've tried so many times, but I just don't know how to better myself.

[OmenSpirits]

A reflection of one's doubts, usually stem from more than the issue of creation. Maybe straighten out the major issues, your situation, then come back with a clearer mindset than trying art in the thick of life's issues?

Just a thought.

[dcorc]

I know what you're going to tell me now. "Quit your whining and start drawing!", right? It's easier said than done. I've tried so many times, but I just don't know how to better myself.

Which is why you need to do some drawings and post them here in a sketchbook thread, to get specific advice from others on how to improve them.

Maybe it's because I think I'll never be as good as all the great artists out there. I compare myself to others' skills too much.

Hmm, that's a bit like going to a weightlifting gym, but giving up because there are big guys there lifting heavy weights, and you can't imagine yourself doing anything similar - the answer, of course, is to start with exercises that are appropriate to where you are currently, and gradually build up.

Dave

[Muz]

Hey there.

Im not going to say much other than almost everyone that started drawing when they arent a child goes through the same thing, But just to prove it check out mindcandymans sketchbook, its pretty inspiring.

Mindcandyman:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=870

[Enydimon]

Look at it this way, you'll never get anywhere if you give up. If you really want something then you gotta work for it.

All these people on CA who draw so good? They didn't just go 'poof' and suddenly draw well, they worked really hard at it.

I know what you're going to tell me now. "Quit your whining and start drawing!", right? It's easier said than done. I've tried so many times, but I just don't know how to better myself.

If it was easy, then it wouldn't be worth it. Of course it's not easy, but it's no reason to beat yourself up over it. Whenever I feel really down about my abilities, I put on some motivational music or try to find a way to get myself pumped up. The truth is, I probably wont see improvement right away, even if it's already happening, but if I stop... where will that get me?

Know what you need to read?

This:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144069

And this:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=135551

Come on, post a sketchbook, mate. Put up your fists and start fighting your way through this. We're here to help you along the way, but you gotta help yourself first because all the resources are in front of you.

[XanaChama]

It's not logical to say "I can never be as good as them". Because if you try your very best, you can achieve a lot, so really your emotional response is unfounded because it is indeed possible. But why try to do your very best anyway? If you don't have a reason for it, then you're spinning wheels anyway. If you had really wanted to do it you would be taking steps to overcome your problem or you would've done it already. So you have to start over and ask yourself, why do you want it? Why become an artist? Why draw pictures? Why go through the effort if it's nothing but pain to you? Can you imagine yourself in 5, 10, 15 years? Think about what you want, but really picture it and see yourself there. If you don't see it realistically happening, then that's a problem and you have to look inside for the solution...

The problem is deeper than you give yourself credit for. Don't sell yourself short by saying it's just "whining". If having emotions was just whining and noise, then why do we have them and why bother focusing on them? Give yourself credit and just think of it like you have a lot of growing to do... if you can't get it together and figure out what you want, then no matter what you do, the little stuff is gonna make you feel like you're falling behind and not getting anywhere. So you may need to put it out of the way. But figure out what you really want.

Maybe it's simple and you're just lazy. But hey, if you can admit that and become comfortable with the idea, then you can take steps to overcome it. Not everyone responds to pressure the same way anyway as we're not all the same, besides... didn't one of the professionals on this site drop out of high school before he got into art professionally? So it's not like it's impossible if you really want it. You just have to figure out what you're made of and whether what you're made of is enough to convince you to go get it. It all "sounds" nice to you, but you haven't sold yourself on being an artist yet, because if you really loved what you were doing you'd do it despite what other people thought... and not because you want to become some uber famous artist someday. And why want that (and to impress people)? It's about you, not them. Think about it, and try to put things in perspective and rest some of your own fears and go after what you want.

Just some other way of approaching it.

[SoufMeng]

Hello! I don't mean to whine with this post, I'm sorry if it looks like it. I'm only looking for some inspiration, because my situation seems kind of hopeless to me.
Its ok, you're not exactly the first. (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138102) :)

[...]they wouldn't take me, said my drawings aren't good enough. I agree with them, but it's not really my fault.[...]
This makes little more sense than saying "it's not my fault if my drawings are good"...
I think you did well to come here, there's a huge lot of resources for beginners and more advanced artists, just have a browse around.

[•Lindsay•]

How can you improve when you doubt yourself so much? I think you have answered your own question, it's just not going to happen. If you give yourself this little self pitying speech before you sit down to do every drawing it's no surprise that you aren't going anywhere. The motivations behind your drawing make a difference, if the work looks forced it's because you are forcing yourself to do it. You sound like your are obsessed with yourself, just start thinking about the drawing for it's own sake. Don't ask what the drawing can do for you, ask what you can do for your drawing.

[nauvice]

sounds like you find great artists overwhelming and you are trying to reach a high level without going through all the stages first. Since Im a gamer, I like to look at situations in life as if they were games- Everyone starts at level 1 at some point, and progressively become better and better, (some faster than others). When you're stuck in a level, you can try over and over until you get it, or you can look for a strategy guide. In real life, you can either keep drawing (srry I know you said you didnt want to hear it, but that is what you have to do...) but you can also take guidance from other artists who've been trhough similar situations., like conceptart.org is the perfect place for example.

[AChipps]

I'm 18 years old right now, and because of personal reasons I dropped out of school, and I'm doing homeschooling right now. I won't lie, my career situation looks kind of bad. But all I ever wanted to do was something with art. Now, I could never draw very good, but I just can't convince myself to draw more so I can improve. I just have so many doubts of myself, so that my drawings seem very 'forced'. I can't really draw freely, because I don't think very highly my drawings. Maybe it's because I think I'll never be as good as all the great artists out there.

When I was 17, I was saying the same thing. Really, but I was kicked out of school and the bus driver was told to not let me get on the bus. In that year I stopped burning my drawings, and grew very good at it, but I had been drawing since I was 8. That was 9 years of drawing, and a billion pictures drawn.

I might have been a little different in one area.
I had people telling me I was no good, and they didn't see my art, but it was more of a fact that they didn't want me to be good at anything, so this might be where we are different. I felt I had something to prove, but you except people telling you your no good, and you agree with them. They can't say you will never be good, but if they did, how would that make you feel? No future, because you are no good at anything? That will make me feel like I would have something to prove, but I know better at trying to prove myself to anyone.

Don't draw what you can't see until you can draw what you can. There is a lot more that go in to drawing from imagination than what you see, and you have nothing to compare your art to, so you can't tell if you are getting better, or what you need to work on improving. I know what if feels like to grab the pencil so tight that it could break, from the stress of working hard at improving in a hurry, and at times you will feel like you are not improving at all. Start looking back at your art, and talking a walks to enjoy life for a while without stress. Set it part of a schedual, Time to draw, and Time to relax. Watch the clock while you draw to see how long you draw, and when you feel you did enough, add 20 minutes, before you quit. Always start with a sketch so you can make adjustments before you draw. Make it a routine. For every drawing find areas that need improved, and even if every drawing is different, some things are consistant on what you need to work on improving. It will take a lot of time, and a lot of drawings, so you don't need to do big pictures, just do small ones until you get good enough to start working on more details. Everyone that draws has a system they use that works best for them. Things that we grow into doing like a habbit, knowing it is what we do to get the best results. That is what you need to develop. Right now, you don't need to find something you want to draw, because for every thing we draw we develop a an understanding of the object we do, so we find something different each time. If you don't feel like you have drawn something good enough, draw it again, and then look at what you did better this time, and what you did better the last time, and try to do it all in one drawing, the best of your best.
I don't think I could think of a better way really improve, than to draw something more than once and compare them, to show you what you really need to work on, but before you can see most mistakes, you still need to get good at seeing them. It's kind of rough to draw the same thing twice with all of the details, but if you look at what you are looking at when you draw, and the two pictures, you can notice more flaws that need to be better. That will help you know what to look for. Improvments will go a lot faster that way, and you would know more than anyone what you need to work on to be better. It takes a lot of time, and you will have to think of ways that can help yourself improve. How you rest your hands, where you pivit from when drawing lines, or if you need to tape the paper so it don't move, or leave it free you control it with the other hand. These are all things that we feel has a better effect on our art that we develop. I don't know how much of this you use already, but when things are not working out, it's a good idea to start to notice what we are doing different, like swinging our elbow when we need to keep it straight and steady. Things like that can make us worse, and we will not notice, unless someone points it out, or we try to look for things like that.

[Baron Impossible]

You're your own worst critic and that's OK as long as you don't let it overwhelm you. Far worse is when someone is beginner standard and thinks they're World No 1. You see it all the time. It's that person who won't improve. All you need to do is keep drawing and evaluating feedback and understand that whenever you draw something, no matter how it ends up, you're improving your skills. You won't see it overnight, and sometimes you may look back and see a piece you did last year is better than the one you did last night, but that means nothing; it happens to everyone.

I'm exactly the same as you, probably worse. Often when I start a piece I think, quite seriously, that I've forgotten how to paint. The easiest thing in the world would be to give up, or say it's not working and start something else. For that reason I push myself and never, ever leave a piece unfinished. It's often uncomfortable but it works. You just have to learn to ignore that stupid negative voice and get on with it. That really is the only way. And if you carry on like that then in time, you will notice a positive difference.

[Leonor]

You remind me of myself at your age. Fifteen years on I still struggle with that kind of negative thinking. It took me nowhere, I'm not drawing any better.

Unlike me at your age, you have CA. So start a sketchbook. Let's see what you can do. Eighteen is an ideal age to start studying seriously. Nobody really expects you to be good at anything or know what you want before that age. So unless your parents are unsupportive, life is on your side.

If you find it hard to learn, it's because you are stuck with drawing problems that have solutions. Knowledge needs to be integrated in a certain order. For instance, you can't learn multiplication before you know your addition.

Post your sketchbook?

[the_jos]

I can't really draw freely, because I don't think very highly my drawings. Maybe it's because I think I'll never be as good as all the great artists out there. I compare myself to others' skills too much.

If you want to climb Mt Everest you need support to get to the top but you should not focus on what others do. They do it faster? Better? They practiced more? Sure, it helps. But you want to be on the top, don't you? Think you ain't good enough? Practice more. Seek advice (well, you are here now, create your sketchbook). Not sure you are motivated enough? Find other people who want to climb the mountain and are willing to practice with you. Teaming up helps.

Either you are motivated enough to aim for the top (and many people fail to get there, even when motivated enough) or you decide to go somewhere else. That's up to you.

Stop your doubts and start acting. Find out what you need to get where you want to be. Get your stuff ready and start practicing. You need some good hiking shoes to start with. No snow gear yet. Since you live in Germany just go to the Eiffel mountains and hike there. Who cares that it's not huge mountains. It's a start. Only fools start their practice to climb Mt Everest at Mt Everest. People prepare for years before they even go there.

And you wonder if you are good enough without even trying the easier stuff? I bet you can do that. And in time you will be able to climb the high European mountains. Everest? Not sure, only a select few have the oppertunity to go there and even less make it to the top and back. But at least you can say you prepared for it and found out it didn't work out. Or you succeed and have a great story to tell. So stop comparing to others and start to focus on something realistic.

[J Wilson]

If you love it, do it. There's a lot of things people do that they aren't good at, that they manage to enjoy (and improve on). I think the only difference is you are expecting too much of yourself, and losing the enjoyment. Yes, art can be hard work, but if you think of it AS work, you're kind of doomed.

You need to find a way to enjoy the process, even when you aren't always 100% happy with the results.

[B u r l]

read Art & Fear (http://www.amazon.com/Art-Fear-Observations-Rewards-Artmaking/dp/0961454733/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246640141&sr=8-1)

[Miriam B.]

Thanks to all of you for the answers!

You all really cheered me up a lot. Not many people know of my drawing hobby (beside my father), so I never really get encouraged. But now I really feel like I can succeed if I only try hard enough. I think I'm really a bit too obsessed with myself. I try to prove something to other people. But it's not going to work that way. I should just try to draw for myself, not for others. Maybe I will post a sketchbook here, if I get my scanner to work.

Again, thanks for all of your answers and support, it means a lot.

[Helioth]

When you look at art, for long enough, you realize it was never about being as good as anyone else, or even being good in comparison, because all you really have to compare yourself to is... yourself, your own goals, ideals, dreams, visions...

Even from the point of view that we are all nothing more than a
"very complicated sort of tube", a vast meat machine,
our unique neuro-whatever-igical layout, ideas,
experiences, and eventually, skill-sets,
provide us with enough to never need to see things in a linear fashion,

such as an athlete might compare himself to another athlete,
and if the one cannot run as fast as the other he is *worse*, but then,
the goal of an athlete is to win at a very simple game, most of the time,

Whereas, what is the goal of the game an artist plays?
Other than to express what he finds beautiful, and his inner machinations?
And how are you supposed to measure your thoughts to those of others?

They are all interesting (ideas), you just have to think them far enough, and acquire the technical skills whilst doing it, to show what you mean in a way that appeals to you, and can be understood by your target audience (first and foremost you, but then perhaps others you would like to share your little world with).

I mean, look at all the artists making a living today, can you tell me, exactly,
what the connection and or similarity is, in subject matter, or technique, that makes them successful, other than some vague "it's good" "they're talented" "they're just an artist" is?

So here I will layout some rules for you to follow:
1: Stop holding yourself to impossible standards that you know you will never live up to,
to only find you cannot produce, and do not want to produce, for fear of others, and above others, your own judgement.
Realize, even Rembrandt (or whoever you worship/ idolize) started with innocent little sketches, which, while they may have been good for his age, just weren't up to par to any of the masterpieces of the history of art,
and if he had compared himself to them, we would never have had the pleasure of seeing "the night watch" or any of his fantastically moody portraits.

2: Draw a little every day, observational, mental (imagined), technical (different mediums/ ways of using them).

3: Try finishing a piece that really means something to you, e.g draw your frustration,
or what you love at the moment, or just... something you like the look of.
picture it, visualize it, this is a quick way to get better, as noted by others on these boards too.

If you can't follow these, meditate on what it is that's getting to you, try to get over it, and just draw. If you still can't, ask yourself if it's perhaps a false, romantic dream you were chasing after, and, see if you aren't actually something else really.
Do you cook a lot?
Can you just not stop writing, or thinking in a specific way?
Does something else make you happy? Follow that then,
you can always come back to art and do it as a hobby,
and if that starts going well, who says it's too late?

Unless of course you really have a hard-on for art,
in which case, why am I giving you this advice?

Art is born of the observation and investigation of nature.
Cicero

Good luck!

[Bruce Pluto]

Miriam B.

It tears me up to hear someone thinking this way!! You are so young and have so much of your life ahead of you. My posted response to you here may have little to do with art but them again it may have some.

First of all if you enjoy doing artwork then do it. Everyone starts somewhere. Maybe draw something you are thinking of in your head right now then repeat the same thing 10 times over the next 10 days. See what you think of your efforts after your final attempt. I’ll bet you see a tremendous improvement!

Next, just because someone likes to draw or do artwork doesn’t mean that they will be able to make a career out of it. Even if they are good. What I do think you need more of right now is confidence. I’m sure there is something that you are very good at. Use that and try to improve…. then let that confidence spill over into other things. For most people there is always a measure of self doubt ( it’s a healthy thing) and they use it to practice their interests and get better at achieving their goals.

Don’t down yourself. Stay the course and keep looking forward.

Bruce

[sanakris]

One of my favorite songs 'Prayers' by Clazziquai. "Don't be a slave in your own sanctuary, freedom comes when you learn to let go." Meaning don't stress. If you don't enjoy your sanctuary(your art) what else can you actually honestly enjoy?

[Eugie]

Well Enydimon beat me to it, everytime i see these posts it just seems logical to post jason's story.

[Bentley]

If you do something a lot, it doesn't matter what it is, eventually you'll get good at it. The more dedicated, focused, and intelligent you are the quicker this will happen.

[hitnrun]

Ok, I'm going to take a different route here. I agree you should find a solution to bigger problems you're going through. One way to get better is to pinpoint one factor of your art you aren't satisfied with, for example I'm horrible at drawing legs (look at my sketchbook, you'll notice almost nothing ever has legs - albiet there isnt much there to look at), so I cracked open my bridgman and my sheppard books, I'm studying the anatomy of a leg, I'm studying what is seen on the surface, I'm studying proportions, and I practice both legs, and I practice drawing them connected to the upper torso. I sucked at feet for a long time, and I did the same thing. It's a slow improvement, but it helps. You'll build up a mental library of how things should look. Oh and yes, get some of your stuff up here - You will not be alienated. This community, from what I've seen, is definitely here to help, and it can be a damn good resource.

[Bentley]

I personally would start off with still life drawing, before attempting to freestlye. You'll get frustrated.

[Wilstrong]

There is a lot of good advice here. And I'm guessing that most of the people who have posted did it because they have felt the same way at one point or another. These are feelings every great one struggles with. But the difference between the greats and the mediocres is that the greats were great enough to overcome their "demons". The lack of ambition, the fear of inadequacy, the personal embarrassment at realizing their own lack of talent, being easily distracted by TV, housework, chores, online activities, and even educational forums . . .

When it all comes down to it, you just have to roll up your sleeves and work. No amount of thinking about the fence or even learning about how to make good fences will ever build a fence. At some point, you need to pull out the tools and start building. And as you build, you will notice things that you could do more effectively. That is the time to seek instruction. As you build, others will be able to point out ways to do a better job (assuming you have allowed others to watch you build).

I'm posting here now because I, like so many others, have felt and will in the future undoubtedly feel this very same way. Sometimes I feel like there is so much room for improvement that it is daunting to think about. But other times the improvement I need to make seems like a widening path, opening up to endless opportunities.

And it all depends on what I do right now, this minute. Will I continue to read threads trying to find an answer that inside I already know? Will I check my email for the tenth time today, just in case something new came? Or will I shut my browser, and pull out my tools (photoshop, painter, paper and pencil, charcoal, oil paints, clay), and start on something?

[pegasi]

I understand everything you´re going through.. I've been there, and still am sometimes, but i think it is really a question of starting to think clearly. It takes time, even if you can't do it now, you'll be able to if drawing is really important to you. I'am 22 years old, it took me all this time to realize many things, everyone has their pace. If you can only imagine yourself working in a profession that involves drawing in any way, than you will conclude that there is no other path for you to take. Without working hard for at least a year, you can't even start to doubt yourself :p

[sanakris]

And honestly any art school that only grants entry based solely on portfolio is a snooty high class school that probably won't teach much. That is what I think in my opinion. There must be other schools out there. And your still young. Self doubt, pity, sitting in a corner crying isn't gonna get you anywhere. Wipe the tears push aside the anger and frustration and start drawing. Just sitting around isn't gonna make you feel any better.

[armando]

You don't need to believe in yourself. Overemphasis on the self, I believe, comes from the tradition of subjectivism, but I don't know enough about the history of ideas so I can't argue it very effectively.(There's an interesting book that talks about this by Ortega y Gassat called "What is Philosophy", it's pretty short too) Either way, the secret is that you don't need to believe in yourself, because: Principles work regardless of faith. Improvement really comes from putting yourself in situations that provide a positive influence, the ingredients for change are: you + the world, not you alone with your feeble will. Here's a silly analogy: The teenage mutant ninja turtles are only awesome ninjas because they came into contact with ooze and splinter, remove those two things and all you're left with is four regular turtles. The easiest place to find positive contact is with a book.

Do the exercises here. Then search out more info on design, composition, look at some books on abstract art.
http://www.youtube.com/user/moatddtutorials

[Xeon_OND]

I also tried to go to an art school to improve, but they wouldn't take me, said my drawings aren't good enough. I agree with them, but it's not really my fault.
Seriously, when I read this statement, I really want to beat the **** out of that art school who wouldn't take you. Burn it down, screw them all.

It's crazy!!! I mean, people GO TO ART SCHOOLS because they know nothing but wanna learn art, and the art school won't take them in cos' they know nothing about art?!

That's the same as saying you can't go to grade school cos' you dunno anything about simple math, or that the English school don't wanna take you in cos' you wanna learn English.

Absurb is all I can say. If that's the case, then what kind of students does that art school take in? Van Gogh? Or people who have portfolios that are better than those of Picasso? Or maybe they only accept students like Vilppu? >:{

I remember when I was a teen and wanted to join a badminton club in my school to learn badminton, those guys won't let me in cos' I dunno anything about badminton.

Is the name of that art school called "The German Art Institute for Elites"?

I hope not all art schools are like this. If yes, then I feel so sorry for the number of aspiring artists out there like Miriam who need guidance but won't get accepted.

Anyway, as you're only 18, I suggest you self-study art by reading books and coming here to the forums here for help with questions and advice.

Of course, a teacher is best (tried looking for other more "normal" art schools?). :D

And if you wanna start, I say Betty Edwards' "Drawing with the right side of the brain" is a good place to start. ;)

Good luck!

[armando]

A quality art school should only accept students based on the quality of their portfolios. A school that accepts anyone, regardless of portfolio, is probably mediocre, and only interested in students tuition.

[Flake]

And honestly any art school that only grants entry based solely on portfolio is a snooty high class school that probably won't teach much.

A portfolio is probably the only thing any art school should consider valid while judging applications. It's the only honest, fair way to judge applicants.

You are wrong.
You are so wrong that I agree completely with Armando, and that never happens.

I like art schools that judge solely on portfolios, that are willing to overlook a "FAIL" in particle physics, over a sweet lifedrawing.

I'm curious now, what would be your particular criteria?

[Xeon_OND]

A quality art school should only accept students based on the quality of their portfolios. A school that accepts anyone, regardless of portfolio, is probably mediocre, and only interested in students tuition.
Does that mean that in order to go to a quality art school, the students gotta go to some basic art school first and to improve on their portfolio greatly before they've a chance to get accepted? I just feel the way these "quality art schools" work is illogical.

[Arshes Nei]

Does that mean that in order to go to a quality art school, the students gotta go to some basic art school first and to improve on their portfolio greatly before they've a chance to get accepted? I just feel the way these "quality art schools" work is illogical.

No it means that this person, art is his/her passion and is willing to put a portfolio together to show it.

If you're just going to show them SAT scores and not the fact you really mean to work on art, what is the point of going there?

[Xeon_OND]

No it means that this person, art is his/her passion and is willing to put a portfolio together to show it.

If you're just going to show them SAT scores and not the fact you really mean to work on art, what is the point of going there?
Thanks for the explanation, but well, it's an eye-opener for me.

I've yet to meet any school like this and all they need is the standard qualifications (e.g: english results, math results etc.) and plenty of $$$$. Once you've both, then you're in. :D

If they don't wanna accept you, how about kneeling down in front of the art school for days without getting up, in order to prove your sincerity?

[Arshes Nei]

The thing to keep in mind by the way is these days you don't need a degree or school to become a successful artist. That doesn't mean however school doesn't have its advantages as it is what you make of it.

Over here all I see is just "yeah we'll make anyone an artist" and most people have the idea that going to art school is an easy road. The only person who can really make you an artist is yourself.

[Kiera]

oh maaan.. about the art schools: you have to know that in Germany you either don't need to pay money for studying or the tuition fee is incredibly low compared to American standards.
This is why for a place in design (the standard art course) it can happen that there are about 800 portfolios for 60 free study places.

That means that the schools can be picky with portfolios and students.


I doubt that Miriam will ever read this, but still
"Ich möchte irgendwas Kreatives machen, mit Medien oder so"
For hobby artist, look up what everyone else is saying.
For being a student get a reality check and visit schools, talk to professors and students and see how art in Germany look like.
visit Precore.net
(Spoiler: You won't need to be able to draw for any direction in art but you'll need a lot of other things to qualify.)

[Derek the Usurper]

A quality art school should only accept students based on the quality of their portfolios. A school that accepts anyone, regardless of portfolio, is probably mediocre, and only interested in students tuition.

Or they realize that through an atelier or academy method, it is possible to train anyone regardless of their current skill level. Many atelier schools take people who can't even draw a circle, and it has nothing to do with greed.

[Xeon_OND]

oh maaan.. about the art schools: you have to know that in Germany you either don't need to pay money for studying or the tuition fee is incredibly low compared to American standards.
This is why for a place in design (the standard art course) it can happen that there are about 800 portfolios for 60 free study places.

That means that the schools can be picky with portfolios and students.

Oh I see, thanks for the explanation! Guess art schools across different countries function differently.

And by different, I mean there's a huge world of difference though.
Pardon me if I'm wrong, but from what I read in the School and Education forum here, art schools in America cost like US$100,000 over? I see people posting school fees like US$160,000 for a art degree or something. How can it get so expensive?!

With obscene Wall-Street-Madoff figures like these, no wonder fresh art grads over there in the States are having problems paying off their school debts. :nohope:

[Xeon_OND]

Or they realize that through an atelier or academy method, it is possible to train anyone regardless of their current skill level. Many atelier schools take people who can't even draw a circle, and it has nothing to do with greed.
LOL, if I have a billion dollars in my bank, or my dad is Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, I would write a letter now to Glenn Vilppu and get him to be my art teacher and pay him US$500 million for 5 years of art instruction (excluding bonus).

[Derek the Usurper]

LOL, if I have a billion dollars in my bank, or my dad is Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, I would write a letter now to Glenn Vilppu and get him to be my art teacher and pay him US$500 million for 5 years of art instruction (excluding bonus).

You don't specifically need Glenn Vilppu to learn how to draw.

Some Ateliers charge under $3000 a semester, but I am not aware of any in Singapore. They are still relatively cheap when compared to universities, and you should get 40+ hours a week of instruction and work to do. The only problem with these schools is that they are private and unaccredited, so you cannot get any financial assistance through the usual channels.

[Mock]

The advice I'm about to give is based only on my own personal experience. It might sound a bit callous, but it took this sort of realization to get me up and going.

Now, I could never draw very good, but I just can't convince myself to draw more so I can improve.

Yes, you can.

I spent several months in college working as a personal trainer, and one of the most common excuses I heard when someone missed a workout was "I just can't make myself go work out. I want to, but I just can't." These people claimed to be extremely unhappy with themselves, wanting to lose weight more than anything else... and yet they couldn't manage to force themselves to get up and move three days a week? There's something very wrong with that. They can say they want it, but talk is cheap. The same goes with art. We all want to be top-notch artists, but saying how much we want it isn't going to get us there. If we really mean it, then the only choice is to buckle down and do the work.

It's a matter of self-discipline. Dig deep and see if you can find it, because if you can't even convince yourself to draw at all, then you very simple do not want a career in art badly enough to succeed. There are hundreds, even thousands, of artists who want a career in art more than they want anything else. They are extremely dedicated and motivated people, but many of them weren't always like that. They had these same doubts and issues motivating themselves. However, at some point all of them realize that it's a do or die situation. You either man up and get to work, or you resign yourself to doing something else.

I just have so many doubts of myself, so that my drawings seem very 'forced'. I can't really draw freely, because I don't think very highly my drawings. Maybe it's because I think I'll never be as good as all the great artists out there. I compare myself to others' skills too much.

There will always be better artists than you. Go ahead and take some time to accept that, then get over it. In 20 years I might be an amazing artist, but the artists who are currently better than me (provided they keep working) will very likely still be better than me. You don't need to draw "freely", you just need to draw intelligently. Be aware of what you are drawing, what mistakes you are making, and find out how to fix them.

Even if your drawings look forced, you're still drawing. That loose, confident feeling comes only with time and a hell of a lot of practice. Jason mentioned something in his color theory class about the hierarchy of learning, and it goes loosely like this (in layman's terms):

You draw, but don't realize you suck --> You draw, realize you're terrible, and work on getting better --> You draw, now you're pretty good, but you constantly have to think about what you're doing --> You draw, you're damn good, and it comes as easily as breathing.

Congratulations, you've reached the stage where you look at your work and you can realize it has issues. However, you're expecting yourself to be in the stage where things come easily. Go ahead and get rid of that idea, because it's going to take many, many years before you can draw something straight out of your head without any stiffness or hesitation.

People have some retarded idea that if you can't draw, you can't draw. It's like any other subject in terms of learning. Would you sit down to solve a complex Calculus problem with only basic algebra knowledge, and then doubt your ability to learn math because you couldn't solve it? No, you wouldn't. You could easily justify not knowing what to do because you simply haven't learned that material yet. If you sit down to do a figure drawing and it looks like shit, how can you automatically doubt your ability to learn if you've never bothered to figure out why it looks like shit and what you need to do to fix it?

Be an active learner. Don't sit around waiting to get better, or thinking that just drawing will make you instantly better. Look at your work, have others look at your work, and actively pursue the knowledge you need to make it better.

I also tried to go to an art school to improve, but they wouldn't take me, said my drawings aren't good enough. I agree with them, but it's not really my fault. I know what you're going to tell me now. "Quit your whining and start drawing!", right? It's easier said than done. I've tried so many times, but I just don't know how to better myself.

Yes, it is your fault. YOU are in complete control of how much you draw, what you draw, and how hard you work. You are the ONLY person who can improve your art. It is absolutely, completely, 100% your fault if your work is not up to par for what you want to accomplish with it, whether that's getting into school, getting a job, or whatever.

It is indeed easier said than done. So is saying "I want a career in art." So is everything. The solution here is to just not say it unless you plan on doing the work to get there. Otherwise you're right in line with every other person who says, "I want to be a concept artist/lose weight/quit smoking/find Jesus/etc." There are millions upon millions of those, the world doesn't need more. Be that rare person who says, "This is my dream. This is what I want to do," and then follow through with everything you have.

As for improving, this part is simple:

Draw a picture. Does it suck? If so, find out why it sucks. Post it in the critique forum, ask friends and family, find out what needs to be fixed. Find material on that subject. If the anatomy looks wrong, look up some Bridgman and find out why. Look up some references and compare them. If the lighting is wrong, go find some lighting tutorials. Find out what you are doing wrong and fix it.

Repeat this process over, and over, and over. As long as you are actively seeking out your own weaknesses and correcting them, you will improve.

You don't need to have an abundance of self-confidence. You're going to experience tons of rejection. Todd McFarlane, the creator of Spawn, got something in the area of 700 rejection letters before securing his first job. He now owns his own company, spends every day doing what he loves, and is rich as fuck on top of it all.

I can say all of the above with confidence because when I found CA.org a little over a year ago, I was in the exact same situation. Someone else gave me similar advice, and it forced me to take control of my situation instead of whining about it.

[JParrilla]

The advice I'm about to give is based only on my own personal experience. It might sound a bit callous, but it took this sort of realization to get me up and going.



Yes, you can.

I spent several months in college working as a personal trainer, and one of the most common excuses I heard when someone missed a workout was "I just can't make myself go work out. I want to, but I just can't." These people claimed to be extremely unhappy with themselves, wanting to lose weight more than anything else... and yet they couldn't manage to force themselves to get up and move three days a week? There's something very wrong with that. They can say they want it, but talk is cheap. The same goes with art. We all want to be top-notch artists, but saying how much we want it isn't going to get us there. If we really mean it, then the only choice is to buckle down and do the work.

It's a matter of self-discipline. Dig deep and see if you can find it, because if you can't even convince yourself to draw at all, then you very simple do not want a career in art badly enough to succeed. There are hundreds, even thousands, of artists who want a career in art more than they want anything else. They are extremely dedicated and motivated people, but many of them weren't always like that. They had these same doubts and issues motivating themselves. However, at some point all of them realize that it's a do or die situation. You either man up and get to work, or you resign yourself to doing something else.



There will always be better artists than you. Go ahead and take some time to accept that, then get over it. In 20 years I might be an amazing artist, but the artists who are currently better than me (provided they keep working) will very likely still be better than me. You don't need to draw "freely", you just need to draw intelligently. Be aware of what you are drawing, what mistakes you are making, and find out how to fix them.

Even if your drawings look forced, you're still drawing. That loose, confident feeling comes only with time and a hell of a lot of practice. Jason mentioned something in his color theory class about the hierarchy of learning, and it goes loosely like this (in layman's terms):

You draw, but don't realize you suck --> You draw, realize you're terrible, and work on getting better --> You draw, now you're pretty good, but you constantly have to think about what you're doing --> You draw, you're damn good, and it comes as easily as breathing.

Congratulations, you've reached the stage where you look at your work and you can realize it has issues. However, you're expecting yourself to be in the stage where things come easily. Go ahead and get rid of that idea, because it's going to take many, many years before you can draw something straight out of your head without any stiffness or hesitation.

People have some retarded idea that if you can't draw, you can't draw. It's like any other subject in terms of learning. Would you sit down to solve a complex Calculus problem with only basic algebra knowledge, and then doubt your ability to learn math because you couldn't solve it? No, you wouldn't. You could easily justify not knowing what to do because you simply haven't learned that material yet. If you sit down to do a figure drawing and it looks like shit, how can you automatically doubt your ability to learn if you've never bothered to figure out why it looks like shit and what you need to do to fix it?

Be an active learner. Don't sit around waiting to get better, or thinking that just drawing will make you instantly better. Look at your work, have others look at your work, and actively pursue the knowledge you need to make it better.



Yes, it is your fault. YOU are in complete control of how much you draw, what you draw, and how hard you work. You are the ONLY person who can improve your art. It is absolutely, completely, 100% your fault if your work is not up to par for what you want to accomplish with it, whether that's getting into school, getting a job, or whatever.

It is indeed easier said than done. So is saying "I want a career in art." So is everything. The solution here is to just not say it unless you plan on doing the work to get there. Otherwise you're right in line with every other person who says, "I want to be a concept artist/lose weight/quit smoking/find Jesus/etc." There are millions upon millions of those, the world doesn't need more. Be that rare person who says, "This is my dream. This is what I want to do," and then follow through with everything you have.

As for improving, this part is simple:

Draw a picture. Does it suck? If so, find out why it sucks. Post it in the critique forum, ask friends and family, find out what needs to be fixed. Find material on that subject. If the anatomy looks wrong, look up some Bridgman and find out why. Look up some references and compare them. If the lighting is wrong, go find some lighting tutorials. Find out what you are doing wrong and fix it.

Repeat this process over, and over, and over. As long as you are actively seeking out your own weaknesses and correcting them, you will improve.

You don't need to have an abundance of self-confidence. You're going to experience tons of rejection. Todd McFarlane, the creator of Spawn, got something in the area of 700 rejection letters before securing his first job. He now owns his own company, spends every day doing what he loves, and is rich as fuck on top of it all.

I can say all of the above with confidence because when I found CA.org a little over a year ago, I was in the exact same situation. Someone else gave me similar advice, and it forced me to take control of my situation instead of whining about it.

now that is real advice

[noche]

offtopic: god! i wish we had schools here that accepted students based on their portfolio and effort!... those are the places to fine tune skills.. you can get however, learn in a number of places to get prepared for that. at least there are schools that don't let you in cause of portfolio :( here it's only "ohhh express yourself.... don't worry"

[noche]

but im not giving in :)

[Sebastard]

Was going to give some advice, but Mock pretty much said everything i intended to say. There is no easy way to artistic success, or any kind of success. 99% of the times it's a matter of deciding what you want and taking charge of your own life.

I used to be a terrible addict with computer games during my teenage/late teens. Then one day i decided "no, fuck this" and put it down. To this day, i'm still not touching games for more then a limited period of time. I started writing and reading, i improved my skill at the literary arts until a point where i could make money freelancing as a writer/journalist (not in english, obviously. This is not my native tongue - I'm a german but i live in Sweden). You don't need a higher power, support groups, teachers or courses (although they can certainly help). All you need is strength of will, discipline and the right mindset. All of that comes from within, not from without. As far as i'm concerned, a person going through life moping, sulking and feeling sorry for himself/herself is - in some respects - a failure.

Only you can make a change with your life. You can come here if you want, and you're certain to hear both encouragement and advice, but it'll do little good until you sit down and say to yourself: "Now i'm becoming good at this and there's nothing anyone can do to stop me." (That's what i did with writing, anyway :P). Once you've declared that, it's a matter of sometimes forcing yourself to draw. To practice. To improve.

Now, you're lucky - this is the information age where you have access to things such as the internet. It means that you can post your artwork here and get specific advice on where you need to improve. Use the resources available to you and begin, take charge of your life ;).

Also, you're lucky you live in a semi-socialdemocratic welfare state (some would say family-oriented/Central-european) such as Germany. If you do some checking, you'll pretty quickly come to realize how incredibly lucky people such as you and me are for living in countries where a person's economical situation is not paramount when he/she is considered for a spot in a prestigious art college. I live in Sweden, and i daresay that from a "poor man's" perspective it is an ambitious student's dream where university fees do not exist and the state supplies monetary funds (800-ish$/month) for any citizen wanting to further his/her education for a maximum of 6 years. People are judged more by the talent they possess when admittance is considered. The fact is, compared to about 90% of the world, even you are living in a dream and you don't seem to be taking advantage of this fact. Do it! Improve and become better :).

Just as a quick note, i'm not "dissing" any other countries who choose to do things differently, such as the United States or Great Britain. The Scandinavian model of social democracy certainly has it's drawbacks, the simplicity of abusing the system being one of these and there are times when i wish we were alot more restrictive in granting students their funds. Our model and the american/british model are polar opposites (more or less) and it's really a matter of personal preference.

[Xeon_OND]

The advice I'm about to give is based only on my own personal experience. It might sound a bit callous, but it took this sort of realization to get me up and going.

Yes, you can.

I spent several months in college working as a personal trainer, and one of the most common excuses I heard when someone missed a workout was "I just can't make myself go work out. I want to, but I just can't." These people claimed to be extremely unhappy with themselves, wanting to lose weight more than anything else... and yet they couldn't manage to force themselves to get up and move three days a week? There's something very wrong with that. They can say they want it, but talk is cheap. The same goes with art. We all want to be top-notch artists, but saying how much we want it isn't going to get us there. If we really mean it, then the only choice is to buckle down and do the work.

It's a matter of self-discipline. Dig deep and see if you can find it, because if you can't even convince yourself to draw at all, then you very simple do not want a career in art badly enough to succeed. There are hundreds, even thousands, of artists who want a career in art more than they want anything else. They are extremely dedicated and motivated people, but many of them weren't always like that. They had these same doubts and issues motivating themselves. However, at some point all of them realize that it's a do or die situation. You either man up and get to work, or you resign yourself to doing something else.



There will always be better artists than you. Go ahead and take some time to accept that, then get over it. In 20 years I might be an amazing artist, but the artists who are currently better than me (provided they keep working) will very likely still be better than me. You don't need to draw "freely", you just need to draw intelligently. Be aware of what you are drawing, what mistakes you are making, and find out how to fix them.

Even if your drawings look forced, you're still drawing. That loose, confident feeling comes only with time and a hell of a lot of practice. Jason mentioned something in his color theory class about the hierarchy of learning, and it goes loosely like this (in layman's terms):

You draw, but don't realize you suck --> You draw, realize you're terrible, and work on getting better --> You draw, now you're pretty good, but you constantly have to think about what you're doing --> You draw, you're damn good, and it comes as easily as breathing.

Congratulations, you've reached the stage where you look at your work and you can realize it has issues. However, you're expecting yourself to be in the stage where things come easily. Go ahead and get rid of that idea, because it's going to take many, many years before you can draw something straight out of your head without any stiffness or hesitation.

People have some retarded idea that if you can't draw, you can't draw. It's like any other subject in terms of learning. Would you sit down to solve a complex Calculus problem with only basic algebra knowledge, and then doubt your ability to learn math because you couldn't solve it? No, you wouldn't. You could easily justify not knowing what to do because you simply haven't learned that material yet. If you sit down to do a figure drawing and it looks like shit, how can you automatically doubt your ability to learn if you've never bothered to figure out why it looks like shit and what you need to do to fix it?

Be an active learner. Don't sit around waiting to get better, or thinking that just drawing will make you instantly better. Look at your work, have others look at your work, and actively pursue the knowledge you need to make it better.

Yes, it is your fault. YOU are in complete control of how much you draw, what you draw, and how hard you work. You are the ONLY person who can improve your art. It is absolutely, completely, 100% your fault if your work is not up to par for what you want to accomplish with it, whether that's getting into school, getting a job, or whatever.

It is indeed easier said than done. So is saying "I want a career in art." So is everything. The solution here is to just not say it unless you plan on doing the work to get there. Otherwise you're right in line with every other person who says, "I want to be a concept artist/lose weight/quit smoking/find Jesus/etc." There are millions upon millions of those, the world doesn't need more. Be that rare person who says, "This is my dream. This is what I want to do," and then follow through with everything you have.

As for improving, this part is simple:

Draw a picture. Does it suck? If so, find out why it sucks. Post it in the critique forum, ask friends and family, find out what needs to be fixed. Find material on that subject. If the anatomy looks wrong, look up some Bridgman and find out why. Look up some references and compare them. If the lighting is wrong, go find some lighting tutorials. Find out what you are doing wrong and fix it.

Repeat this process over, and over, and over. As long as you are actively seeking out your own weaknesses and correcting them, you will improve.

You don't need to have an abundance of self-confidence. You're going to experience tons of rejection. Todd McFarlane, the creator of Spawn, got something in the area of 700 rejection letters before securing his first job. He now owns his own company, spends every day doing what he loves, and is rich as fuck on top of it all.

I can say all of the above with confidence because when I found CA.org a little over a year ago, I was in the exact same situation. Someone else gave me similar advice, and it forced me to take control of my situation instead of whining about it.

Most awesome piece of advice ever. This Mock guy should just quit art and be a personal success coach like the legendary guru Brian Tracy and make millions even in recession. :D

[Flake]

Just as a quick note, i'm not "dissing" any other countries who choose to do things differently, such as the United States or Great Britain.

Google a bit of stuff on how further education works in Britain, and especially Scotland.

It's not what it was but it's still closer to the Euro model than the US one.


Edit: also, yay Mock.

[Twall87]

Simply put, anger is more useful than dispair. You have to take that little nagging self doubt voice and shout in it's face "I'm mad as hell and i'm not going to take it anymore!!". Only when you give yourself enough freedom to grow will you be able to.

Also, I have a philosophy that holds true a great deal. Namely, that you should always do the best you can and be proud of that even if you don't finish first every time. The simple truth is that inevitably there will be someone better than you even if they don't exist in your lifetime and/ or you never meet or hear of them. That's human progress. But you shouldn't loose any sleep over who is better than you, the only thing you can do is concentrate on yourself and on constantly pushing the envelop and constantly improving your best.

The best edict in my experiance is "The best work you have ever made is the next one"