Art and skill.

[Rist]

Do any of you feel the fame of some 'artists' in this world are a little unjustified?

Look at this awesome painting and others on the website. (http://www.misakikawai.com/painting-01.html)

For those who love this stuff, please explain the importance of these pieces.

Example:

http://www.misakikawai.com/painting-01.jpg

Most artists here are paid far less than these people, but for some reason artists here create works that are awesomely impressive.

I guess a lot of contempary art will always be no skill fake stuff. :wtf:



back to my lowly painting I go. :anime:

[Crush]

Whether you like them or not, I actually think that guys paintings are pretty cool. I don't know how much people pay for them, probably far too much, but I still quite like them. His drawings on the other hand, eh, no thanks.

[Baron Impossible]

Just imagine how bad it must be for him, though, having to churn out that crap every day

[Rist]

Just imagine how bad it must be for him, though, having to churn out that crap every day

lol priceless.

I think he is a she:

http://www.misakikawai.com/photo-08.jpg

[JJacks]

Whatever. If she likes to paint like that and people are willing to pay money for her paintings and support her art, more power to her.

At least the paintings don't seem commercially whorish.

[BubbaGump]

It's all about exposure. She's probably whored (and I use it as a verb, not in any derogatory sense) her work through children's book, public murals, galleries, advertising, etc and built up her contact list. Yes, she's probably not the most skilled artist technically but her public relations skills are off the roof. Just google "Misaki Kawai" and see all the pictures of her with ACTUAL PEOPLE.

The locking yourself in your room and draw bit is useful for improving yourself from an artistic standpoint but what about going outside, meeting people, and actually having a life? Expose yourself, your work, and make friends!

You can be the most skilled artist but if you don't advertise yourself...who will know about you, and who will care?

[Kiera]

let's be angry about someone who makes money with art that we don't like :anime::anime::anime:

[Ninjerk]

The above mentioned artist aside, art isn't the only field that crap gets peddled in, so I wouldn't chalk it up to just networking and the old subjectivity debate. If you're going to have a problem with anyone, have it with the consumer.

[Hyskoa]

let's be angry about someone who makes money with art that we don't like :anime::anime::anime:

Indeed, we should be absolutely thrilled about turning this world into a place where mediocrity and provocative garbage collections outperform competent work.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/6909/excited2yb8.jpg

[Kiera]

Indeed, we should be absolutely thrilled about turning this world into a place where mediocrity and provocative garbage collections outperform competent work.
Because there is only one possible way to do art :D :D


(haha, I go to bed now)

[Hyskoa]

Because there is only one possible way to do art :D :D


(haha, I go to bed now)



Neah, there's a very wide spectrum of art.
Some stuff however doesn't classify as art, merely as degrees of no.
Namely:

- No
- Very no
- Fuck no
- Aw hell no.
- GWBush no.
- Fanatical religions no.
- Genocide no.
- Apocalypse no.
- The end of times as we know it no.
- Modern art no.

Can't think of anything worse than the last one though... hmmnope.
Nonexistent.

And goodnight kier.

[Kiera]

respectful disagreement here, thank you, good night Hyskoa

[Ilaekae]

Good dreams to both of you... :)

[Enydimon]

Do any of you feel the fame of some 'artists' in this world are a little unjustified?

I used to, but as soon as I took my grade 12 art class we learned what makes art cost so much, which types and what ones will make it into the books.

Disappointing? Yeah, but not unjustified. Our commissioners are the ones that pretty much define what is famous and what is popular.
And as someone has already said, you can be an amazing artist technically but have terrible social and advertising skills that will lead you around in circles. Very few artists get recognized without putting themselves out there.

But if this sort of thing bothers you, then think for a moment how many awesome artists we have right here on CA. Then think about how many wont be remembered in the future... then think about all the other people in the past we have no clue about because they were never popular enough. As artists, this is something we have to get used to. It's been happening for a very long time and I doubt it'll change anytime soon.

[BubbaGump]

The above mentioned artist aside, art isn't the only field that crap gets peddled in, so I wouldn't chalk it up to just networking and the old subjectivity debate. If you're going to have a problem with anyone, have it with the consumer.

Oh come on. If old ladies buy Thomas Kinkade prints all of a sudden they're at fault? They buy shit they like and that brand of work just happens to appeal to them. They can hardly give a crap about the artistic merit that goes into the stuff they buy. It looks nice to them, they'll consume it. Is it their fault that they're not artistically knowledgable and choosy? No. They're not artists--they have better stuff to do than worry about that crap.

[Elwell]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Enydimon]

Oh come on. If old ladies buy Thomas Kinkade prints all of a sudden they're at fault? They buy shit they like and that brand of work just happens to appeal to them. They can hardly give a crap about the artistic merit that goes into the stuff they buy. It looks nice to them, they'll consume it. Is it their fault that they're not artistically knowledgable and choosy? No. They're not artists--they have better stuff to do than worry about that crap.

Woosh~

The point was that things like that boil down to consumers. MTV doesn't make people like the music they put on there, they're catering to their audience. So basically, it's silly to get upset at anyone, it's just how it is. Better get used to it.

[Derek the Usurper]

Oh come on. If old ladies buy Thomas Kinkade prints all of a sudden they're at fault? They buy shit they like and that brand of work just happens to appeal to them. They can hardly give a crap about the artistic merit that goes into the stuff they buy. It looks nice to them, they'll consume it. Is it their fault that they're not artistically knowledgable and choosy? No. They're not artists--they have better stuff to do than worry about that crap.

You speak as if there is ANYTHING better to do than gain knowledge.

[alesoun]

If everybody was knowledgable about stuff they bought/needed we could all make petrol or strip down a car and I would have just saved myself a bloody fortune on a plumber.

When it comes down to likes and dislikes we buy what we like. If we like pink, we'll buy Barbies. If we like techno we'll buy Space Marines.

As producers we have two choices; do what we do to the best of our ability, or produce what we think people will buy. Those choices are ours to make, but the most offensive thing we can do is tell other people what they should or shouldn't like.

"Buy XYZ brand or be a putz" Now there's a slogan to die for, eh?

[Flake]

Worry about your own stuff.

It's the only one you have any influence over.

[Derek the Usurper]

If everybody was knowledgable about stuff they bought/needed we could all make petrol or strip down a car and I would have just saved myself a bloody fortune on a plumber.

When it comes down to likes and dislikes we buy what we like. If we like pink, we'll buy Barbies. If we like techno we'll buy Space Marines.

As producers we have two choices; do what we do to the best of our ability, or produce what we think people will buy. Those choices are ours to make, but the most offensive thing we can do is tell other people what they should or shouldn't like.

"Buy XYZ brand or be a putz" Now there's a slogan to die for, eh?

There is a difference between being able to completely strip down a car, and basically knowing how an internal combustion engine functions. Most people don't even know the latter, or the equivalent about art, and that lack of personal investigation is pathetic. Especially in this age of instantaneous information it is just inexcusable not to look up that which you do not know.

[alesoun]

People are going to buy what they like. That's the bottom line. They're not going to investigate the theory of art before they buy a picture any more than they're going to investigate the theory of music before they buy a cd. Birdie Song, anyone?

The blessing is; people are different and like different stuff.

Suck it up and spit it out.....

[gnarl]

If someone can make money off art like that, it gives me hope for the future.. of my pocket, not art lol. Though the lady on the bike with the dog is kind of interesting/funny/creepy..

[HunterKiller_]

Let's all make photorealistic paintings, because it's the only way to make real art!

[HTML rulez d00d]

You speak as if there is ANYTHING better to do than gain knowledge.

lol. forget about feeding my kids i've got a thomas kinkade painting to look up!

[Grief]

i like it http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/ninjau1/grief3.gif

[PieterV]

i like it http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/ninjau1/grief3.gif

I was beginning to think I was the only one!

[IIKII]

There is no fairness in everything

[Baron Impossible]

Why is it when people praise art, that's OK, yet when people say something is crap they're either moaning or worrying or angry or jealous? I'm none of these things. I'm equal opportunities and if I like something I'll say so. I also have no problem in calling a turd a turd.

[HunterKiller_]

Why is it when people praise art, that's OK, yet when people say something is crap they're either moaning or worrying or angry or jealous? I'm none of these things. I'm equal opportunities and if I like something I'll say so. I also have no problem in calling a turd a turd.

Because positives are generally better than negatives.

[Gavage]

Slap a pair of tits on there or paint the same image using elephant shit or menstrual blood and it would probably win the Turner prize.

[Kiera]

Why is it when people praise art, that's OK, yet when people say something is crap they're either moaning or worrying or angry or jealous?

because it is not possible to be objective in art and someone's standards might be worthless for other people.
The artists here on conceptart have very similair thoughts on art - this can lead to arrogance, rants, intolerance and a closed-mind which is 100% unnecessary.
The art that is produced around here has it's place and the art that this artist makes has it's place.
You can say that you don't like it but calling someone's art bad/saying that the artist is whoring out/ having pity for the artist or downright insulting the art like the very angry poster above me is not helping to live in a tolerant, respectful artworld.
Repeating that you don't like it closes your own mind for the beauty of the non-conventional and it closes your mind that your own art is not the greatest thing in the world.
Don't forget that there are who people look down on concept art because they just see it as a polished up version of pulp novel covers and don't forget that some people think that realistic fine art is a primitive regression. It's a matter of perspective without a right and wrong.

I think everyone should spend a month with a group of free artists, most of them are really happy with their freedom and their pure creativity, many love to live out their personalities this way and there are also a lot of people who love this kind of art.


Art discussion really brings out the worst of this site. I am not surprised why almost 4 people I have linked in my sig left this site.
(Edit: I would love it if CA could gain a bigger tolerance for more experimental types of art and illustration so that it ends up as a more representative art board and not just a board specialized on.. conceptart ;).)

[Baron Impossible]

Because positives are generally better than negatives.

Better in what way? 'Crap' is no less of a valid opinion than 'great'. Arguably it's more valid as it suggests the commenter is stating their true feelings rather than just toadying to the artist because of their notoriety. (I'm not suggesting people have done that in this thread but you see it all over the place).

I suspect if an unknown had posted this into FF then the number of people objecting to negative comments would be ever so slightly reduced. In fact, negative comments would likely be encouraged when the thread was linked to from The Worst of CA, ensuring the artists initial embarrassment would never be forgotten.

Not that anything on this site matches this art for sheer base foulness. I agree that sometimes it's pointless banging on about whether a piece of art took talent to create, especially when the the aesthetic appeal of the result is ignored, but this stuff lacks any redeeming feature whatsoever. Good art should provoke emotion but this provokes not so much emotion as sensation, that being one of physical sickness, an unpleasant liquifying of the bowels. It goes beyond any neutral question of talent and actively poisons the senses with its puerile, sacchirine schlock and day-glo shithattery. It is anti-art which, if displayed in a gallery with real art, would detonate and destroy the entire building and everone in it. In my opinon, of course.

[Baron Impossible]

because it is not possible to be objective in art and someone's standards might be worthless for other people.
The artists here on conceptart have very similair thoughts on art - this can lead to arrogance, rants, intolerance and a closed-mind which is 100% unnecessary...

I respect your opinion, and would certainly never say you're not entitled to state it, but I disagree with it. I don't subscribe the view that everything is rosey and lovely and we must never say anything negative. If I'm asked my opinion, either directly or indirectly via a forum thread, then I'll give it.

You mention people leaving the site. As I alluded to, there are double standards at work here. A beginner (fair enough, a beginner with attitude) might be mercilessly destroyed by the community, and that destruction celebrated, whereas an established artist (who isn't even reading the thread and wouldn't care anyway) cannot be criticised without rebuke.

You're right, opinions are subjective. I'm not asking others to believe that this art is crap, I'm saying that's my opinion. People are welcome to state the opposite, or disagree, but I do find it odd that so many dispute my right to say so.

[Kiera]

You mention people leaving the site. As I alluded to, there are double standards at work here. A beginner (fair enough, a beginner with attitude) might be mercilessly destroyed by the community, and that destruction celebrated, whereas an established artist (who isn't even reading the thread and wouldn't care anyway) cannot be criticised without rebuke.
.

But the artist from the Op is not the same as an absolute beginner artist even if her art resembles children's art.
At least for me her art doesn't feel random and without thought like children's pictures, it is but it is naive in it's elements but with purpose and it shows a certain poetic look on childhood. (I'd like to elaborate that but I must be leaving soon. argh.)

[Baron Impossible]

But the artist from the Op is not the same as an absolute beginner artist even if her art resembles children's art.

That's my point. If negative comments are to be assessed as a whole then surely it's more damaging to direct them at a beginner who wants critique than an established artist would isn't even reading them and likely wouldn't care if she did.

At least for me her art doesn't feel random and without thought like children's pictures, it is but it is naive in it's elements but with purpose and it shows a certain poetic look on childhood. (I'd like to elaborate that but I must be leaving soon. argh.)

That's fine. We all like different stuff. Some of the stuff I like you may think is hideous (although unlike me you're probably too polite to say so :) ). As I said, each to his - or her - own.

[Collywobbles]

You guys are very pretentious! I heard that this was the original painting but it was not well received (http://collywobblebloggle.blogspot.com/) so she had to paint a new one. Gawd get over yourselves!

710275

[Gerulaitis]

This discussion won't ever leave CA, will it?..
(CA is really not the place for discussing fine art.)

It won't come to any conclusion due to stubborn narrow-mindedness, either.
I think Kiera put things to words well.


Focus on your own art, not go around calling others' crap without giving ANY thought about why that art is the way it is, why the artist creates that way, or what are the positive things in such an approach. As soon as "some people" come across art they "don't understand" or "don't agree with", they panic and automatically label it as "shit". They sometimes even go as far as auto-labeling this way ANYTHING belonging to huge movements, Classical Modernism for instance (that's bloody half of century and THOUSANDS of artists!.. you see nothing positive in Schielle? Expressionists? Surrealism? countless others? or, more likely, have you not even given a thought about it?). Tell me... doesn't that seem a bit ridiculous? Shouldn't that raise some second thoughts once in a while?.. Some tolerance for differing views once in a while would make the world a much brighter place to live in, thank you.

[RyerOrdStar]

Must we do this witch hunt burn at the stake thing every week? Dragging some hapless artist's work in front of the ravenous CA masses doesn't really accomplish anything. The artist usually doesn't know this exists, everyone here gets their fill of venting about it, but in the end they all go their separate ways and it doesn't matter. Can't you people be mature even a little??

[Baron Impossible]

This discussion won't ever leave CA, will it?..
(CA is really not the place for discussing fine art.)

It won't come to any conclusion due to stubborn narrow-mindedness, either.
I think Kiera put things to words well.


Focus on your own art, not go around calling others' crap without giving ANY thought about why that art is the way it is, why the artist creates that way, or what are the positive things in such an approach. As soon as "some people" come across art they "don't understand" or "don't agree with", they panic and automatically label it as "shit". They sometimes even go as far as auto-labeling this way ANYTHING belonging to huge movements, Classical Modernism for instance (that's bloody half of century and THOUSANDS of artists!.. you see nothing positive in Schielle? Expressionists? Surrealism? countless others? or, more likely, have you not even given a thought about it?). Tell me... doesn't that seem a bit ridiculous? Shouldn't that raise some second thoughts once in a while?.. Some tolerance for differing views once in a while would make the world a much brighter place to live in, thank you.


Sure, you could go ahead and assume any opinion you disagree with is based on ignorance but I don't see that as a particularly great argument. Arrogant, yes. Great, no.

[Gerulaitis]

The opinion you expressed wasn't the one I was targetting. The "my way or the highway" approach to evaluating something as subjective as art, was. The outright militant generalization extremes of "all modern art by default is crap" that show up in these discussions once in a while, i'd say, are based on ignorance for the most part. Example:

Some stuff however doesn't classify as art, merely as degrees of no.
Namely:

- No
- Very no
- Fuck no
- Aw hell no.
- GWBush no.
- Fanatical religions no.
- Genocide no.
- Apocalypse no.
- The end of times as we know it no.
- Modern art no.

Can't think of anything worse than the last one though... hmmnope.
Nonexistent.

Then again, art is too bloody subjective. Imho, saying "i don't understand, this isn't the kind of art I seek" is a better approach than calling crap on anything you don't like. Sure, not everything is good, but more often than not, certain things in art can't be compared at all... try comparing concept art to conceptual art, or primitivism to impressionism, or sculpture to music, or kinetic sculpture to a child's drawing. For instance, just because you like kinetic sculpture and not childrens' drawings, doesn't mean childrens' drawings are plain crap, there are people who enjoy them, they find wonderful free creativity there... is it hard to aknowledge the fact differing approaches can suit differing tastes?

[Elwell]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz