GriNGo
June 25th, 2009, 11:42 PM
Since Arshes Nei deleted my original post in the coup thread (in which i thought we were discussing in a civilized manner), he/she told me I should start a new thread about it, cause it doesn't have anything to do with poor little BigBow. :asslick:
So here is my deleted post:
at liamc:
lol gringo link info wars and the ny times quoteing the establishment in iran , and then take that sad postion well we jsut dont know anythign if anythign is true <true ? sombanall? false ? maby?>. i can assure you that you would be hard pressed to find any one here that thought the cia dident fuck around , or any other intel agency aournd the world for that matter . but thats not the point is it ?
Nope.
u suggesting nothing happend ? there was no event <or it was small and nothign to see here >? it was all photoshoped and done in a studio ? maby a back lot some place ?
Nope.
Do you really beleave waht AJ says isent tainted , and theres no adgenda ? when he says it next to the nra banners and adverts to get people to buy seeds, and gold , and guns because the4 end is comeing soon ?or is it that you pick who ever just to continune a non exsistant argument ?
Nope, he just makes some good LOGICAL points about the election fraud. The rest of his conspiracy crap I don't particularly care about, cause I don't live in the states.
It seems the sum of waht your saying is , goverments/groups fuk with eachother , thay want to run the show here there and every where . that spooks/agents spred disinfo as tools to this end . that media isent to be trusted to tell the full or true story , that things can be faked . well woooh thats a great that you could enlighten us ! thanks for the new news !
Hahahah.
whats important is the documentation , it comeing in by the minunt and that people payed attention out side the msm <u can dispute waht ever u want can clame it was 1000 times worse or never happend , or that it was all a pony show > but the fact remains that this is something new and somethign to pay attention to . the vids the tweets the pics , weitehr thay were concocted by our state department , irans ministry , or were actual live events , thay were with out a doubt some of the most powerfull shit ive ever seen .the other extreemly intresting thing in all this is the avrage age 70% of people are 30 and under , that in it self makes it extreeeeeemly plauseable to me
Yes, that Neda girl dying was heart wrenching. Horrible. There were some other dead people, or nearly dying people in Iran, that also were terrible. A few years ago I also saw a vid of a terrorist decapitating a US soldier that was also quite terrifying. A martyr for Irak freedom? Not quite. Believing in Tweets as factual information? Damn...
at burning chrome:
Nothing I wrote in my previous post stated anything about quoting being forbidden. What I found extremely distastefully was the misconception you presented that someone from the NY Times was the source of the statement when it was in fact a statement from the Guardian Council. In any case, really, 3 million disputed votes is nothing to worry about? Geez, glad to see that Wall Street accounting practices are being exported world wide - "Don't worry, it's only 3 million dollars, what's the big deal? At least we didn't tell you about the 30 million that we left off the books - oops!"
What misconception? I just referenced where I read that info. 3 million votes do matter, but in this Case, not enough. It's a big deal for Mousavi, cause with election fraud and all, he still wouldn't win.. "Geddit?".
So your defense of a corrupt and authoritarian theocratic regime is to compare it to a nation (Israel) willing to use white phosphorus on crowded civilian areas in the name of national security? To justify any and all action in the name of "national security" when such recourse only benefits a select few at the cost of the many is not a protection or defense of national or personal liberties, it's a preservation of tyranny and the enforcement of oppression.
Re-read my post. I'm not justifying or defending anything. It's just how governments work.
Wow. Are you fraking serious? Yes, because as we all know, flag waving and confetti is the best way to go when attempting to redress the grievances between a government and its people. Heck, it worked in the American Revolution didn't it? Or was that the French?
Please, please read. I guess you missed the "Ukraine" part. I was citing this particular "revolution": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Revolution (which was mostly peaceful). Not all revolutions.
Do you honestly believe that the U.S. or the U.K. lack access to real-time satellite surveillance for the Middle East? If this was a "one big" protest heckuva day occurrence over and done within 24-48 hrs. with a bunch of malcontents it would not warrant a response from the U.K. Prime Minister, the White House press corps, or the President himself. These aren't some random crowds of a few people gathering in the streets protesting, intelligence agencies on both sides of the Atlantic know from their eyes in the sky that events are not proceeding as the Iranian heads of state had planned.
Ha ha. First of all, we're not exactly watching direct satellite feeds or god forbid, satellite "tweets" on our monitors or tv. It's all just anonymous tweets and cell phone videos and pics. Second, its kinda normal to expect their response, as those are governments that have been advocating the "toppling" of the Iranian clerical government for years. And third, I think you got your last statement there kinda backward.. it is going EXACTLY as the intelligence agencies had planned. ZOMG! CONSPIRACY!!!
Simply because a government can do something does not automatically entail that engaging in violent or coercive actions represent the highest ideal of a 'good government' or a stable society.
Of course. And that Jefferson quote is spot on! Congrats.
To Wateru:
Do you live & work in Iran? If you are in the US I'm guessing your living with the Iranian diaspora, which in general is VERY anti-clerical and pro-western. So their opinion is biased towards what they would prefer to have. Much like cuban-americans hate Castro and whatnot. I'm not using "these people" in a derogatory way, that's just your invention. Also, using blogs and tweets as verifiable information resources is just the same as consulting Wikipedia for a college level research paper, which, just in case, FYI, is not recommended (or allowed in much parts of the world, as I understand). But yes, it shows us that these new media tools are VERY powerful. People believe anything.
___
Good luck Bigbow.. An asslick to you. :asslick:
___
GRINGO
So here is my deleted post:
at liamc:
lol gringo link info wars and the ny times quoteing the establishment in iran , and then take that sad postion well we jsut dont know anythign if anythign is true <true ? sombanall? false ? maby?>. i can assure you that you would be hard pressed to find any one here that thought the cia dident fuck around , or any other intel agency aournd the world for that matter . but thats not the point is it ?
Nope.
u suggesting nothing happend ? there was no event <or it was small and nothign to see here >? it was all photoshoped and done in a studio ? maby a back lot some place ?
Nope.
Do you really beleave waht AJ says isent tainted , and theres no adgenda ? when he says it next to the nra banners and adverts to get people to buy seeds, and gold , and guns because the4 end is comeing soon ?or is it that you pick who ever just to continune a non exsistant argument ?
Nope, he just makes some good LOGICAL points about the election fraud. The rest of his conspiracy crap I don't particularly care about, cause I don't live in the states.
It seems the sum of waht your saying is , goverments/groups fuk with eachother , thay want to run the show here there and every where . that spooks/agents spred disinfo as tools to this end . that media isent to be trusted to tell the full or true story , that things can be faked . well woooh thats a great that you could enlighten us ! thanks for the new news !
Hahahah.
whats important is the documentation , it comeing in by the minunt and that people payed attention out side the msm <u can dispute waht ever u want can clame it was 1000 times worse or never happend , or that it was all a pony show > but the fact remains that this is something new and somethign to pay attention to . the vids the tweets the pics , weitehr thay were concocted by our state department , irans ministry , or were actual live events , thay were with out a doubt some of the most powerfull shit ive ever seen .the other extreemly intresting thing in all this is the avrage age 70% of people are 30 and under , that in it self makes it extreeeeeemly plauseable to me
Yes, that Neda girl dying was heart wrenching. Horrible. There were some other dead people, or nearly dying people in Iran, that also were terrible. A few years ago I also saw a vid of a terrorist decapitating a US soldier that was also quite terrifying. A martyr for Irak freedom? Not quite. Believing in Tweets as factual information? Damn...
at burning chrome:
Nothing I wrote in my previous post stated anything about quoting being forbidden. What I found extremely distastefully was the misconception you presented that someone from the NY Times was the source of the statement when it was in fact a statement from the Guardian Council. In any case, really, 3 million disputed votes is nothing to worry about? Geez, glad to see that Wall Street accounting practices are being exported world wide - "Don't worry, it's only 3 million dollars, what's the big deal? At least we didn't tell you about the 30 million that we left off the books - oops!"
What misconception? I just referenced where I read that info. 3 million votes do matter, but in this Case, not enough. It's a big deal for Mousavi, cause with election fraud and all, he still wouldn't win.. "Geddit?".
So your defense of a corrupt and authoritarian theocratic regime is to compare it to a nation (Israel) willing to use white phosphorus on crowded civilian areas in the name of national security? To justify any and all action in the name of "national security" when such recourse only benefits a select few at the cost of the many is not a protection or defense of national or personal liberties, it's a preservation of tyranny and the enforcement of oppression.
Re-read my post. I'm not justifying or defending anything. It's just how governments work.
Wow. Are you fraking serious? Yes, because as we all know, flag waving and confetti is the best way to go when attempting to redress the grievances between a government and its people. Heck, it worked in the American Revolution didn't it? Or was that the French?
Please, please read. I guess you missed the "Ukraine" part. I was citing this particular "revolution": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Revolution (which was mostly peaceful). Not all revolutions.
Do you honestly believe that the U.S. or the U.K. lack access to real-time satellite surveillance for the Middle East? If this was a "one big" protest heckuva day occurrence over and done within 24-48 hrs. with a bunch of malcontents it would not warrant a response from the U.K. Prime Minister, the White House press corps, or the President himself. These aren't some random crowds of a few people gathering in the streets protesting, intelligence agencies on both sides of the Atlantic know from their eyes in the sky that events are not proceeding as the Iranian heads of state had planned.
Ha ha. First of all, we're not exactly watching direct satellite feeds or god forbid, satellite "tweets" on our monitors or tv. It's all just anonymous tweets and cell phone videos and pics. Second, its kinda normal to expect their response, as those are governments that have been advocating the "toppling" of the Iranian clerical government for years. And third, I think you got your last statement there kinda backward.. it is going EXACTLY as the intelligence agencies had planned. ZOMG! CONSPIRACY!!!
Simply because a government can do something does not automatically entail that engaging in violent or coercive actions represent the highest ideal of a 'good government' or a stable society.
Of course. And that Jefferson quote is spot on! Congrats.
To Wateru:
Do you live & work in Iran? If you are in the US I'm guessing your living with the Iranian diaspora, which in general is VERY anti-clerical and pro-western. So their opinion is biased towards what they would prefer to have. Much like cuban-americans hate Castro and whatnot. I'm not using "these people" in a derogatory way, that's just your invention. Also, using blogs and tweets as verifiable information resources is just the same as consulting Wikipedia for a college level research paper, which, just in case, FYI, is not recommended (or allowed in much parts of the world, as I understand). But yes, it shows us that these new media tools are VERY powerful. People believe anything.
___
Good luck Bigbow.. An asslick to you. :asslick:
___
GRINGO