Holy Christ, is Michael Jackson dead?

[Raffix]

All of the news stations are saying he's been rushed to hospital, and now Radio 1 says he's DEAD :O

[cmalidore]

TMZ reported that he was dead - but no official statement was ever made. Take from that what you will. Most stories are just saying "hospitalized".

Aaand for those who have no idea what we're talking about: clicky clicky (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090625/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson)

[alesoun]

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/25/obit.fawcett/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
According to CNN, Farah Fawcett has died.

[kikindaface]

Yeah, nothing official for now, he is still hospitalized ! Wait and see

[JessiBean]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/25/michael-jackson-dies-death-dead-cardiac-arrest/


Michael suffered a cardiac arrest earlier this afternoon at his Holmby Hills home and paramedics were unable to revive him. We're told when paramedics arrived Jackson had no pulse and they never got a pulse back.

A source tells us Jackson was dead when paramedics arrived. A cardiologist at UCLA tells TMZ Jackson died of cardiac arrest.

[Kagemusha22]

...What?!

[Clodioz]

Just rumors..

[Jason Snair]

wow. Gone.

[Pezz]

Dead according to TMZ.

EDIT: Apparently NBC news just said it on TV too.

[Mr.Delicious]

Now he is truly moon walking D:

RIP Michael Jackson

[Kagemusha22]

Can't tell according to the Beeb.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8119992.stm

[cmalidore]

Reuters is saying dead as well.... I'd be inclined to believe them over TMZ...

[Imaginary]

Dead according to La Times and TMZ now. RIP.

He could be in a coma though aparently.

EDIT:

Actually just heard on BBC that it might not even be him there, fire dpt haven't confirmed it was him that they picked up.

[phoric]

CNN is now reporting that he is in a coma.

[Kagemusha22]

Could be a domino effect in the media, one journalist reads the TMZ article and condenses that into their own words. I'm staying reserved till official confirmation.

Edit - It's on the News right now. Wow.

...Though they are quoting TMZ as proof.

[Orunitier]

AP too. Damn. Ed McMahon, Farrah Fawcett, and now Michael Jackson.

[phoric]

LA Times is saying that he was originally in a coma when brought to the hospital, but has since been declared dead.

Edit: CNN also now says he is dead.

[KEM720]

Does this mean Michael Jackson isn't a zombie? :(

[Clodioz]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31552029/ns/entertainment-music/
BREAKING NEWS: NBC confirms Michael Jackson pronounced dead

[Sublimus]

I had to put on thriller to remember the good times!

[lkjhgfdsa]

even in australia they're saying it was cardiac arrest, he was 51 after all ...

[Robert.B]

Ill always remember the the first time i saw him perform in moon walker. I was like 5 or 6 and his style and presence completely captivated me. I was trying to moon walk for the next 6 years after that lol. Ill always remember him as the man who froze time in 1982 and set the pop world on fire. r.i.p michael and thank you for the memories.

[B u r l]

such a legend. the world will be in mourning :(

[Pixeltuner]

wow, Farah Fawcett's death has been instantly reduced to a footnote. :/

[KarylGilbertson]

Goodbye Michael, Blanket will go on without you.

[draw]

oh no

[Ryuartyi]

Wow, very sad news. So many deaths and issues: the Iran protests, legends' deaths and more. R.I.P. Michael. :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/ryuartyi/jacksonmembers.jpg

Haven't seen this many people in a Lounge thread at a time ever. Death truly does bring people closer, even if it's not a personal loss.

[Kagemusha22]

This was quick. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10273229-1.html)

[Jovian M]

His heart just couldn't beat it.

[Pezz]

This was quick. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10273229-1.html)

It's like they were just waiting for a circumstance to bring that up. Rofl. I can see some guy "Hey boss, can we do an article on Moonwalker today?"

"No, son. We must lie in wait and bide our time until the right moment... Then we shall unleash once again the dreadful fear of Moonwalker upon all civilization!= NYA HA HA HA NYAHA!"

[Kagemusha22]

His heart just couldn't beat it.

Puns, that's what we need.

[ChristianWeeks]

Michael Jackson died a long time ago.

[Peter Coene]

Actually, he has finished the final phase of his plastic surgery process, making him unrecognizable. From there he started a rumor of his own death and has escaped into the anonymity of his new identity as Pedro Pan, which he can use to molest small children free from the view of the rest of the world.

[Kagemusha22]

Actually, he has finished the final phase of his plastic surgery process, making him unrecognizable. From there he started a rumor of his own death and has escaped into the anonymity of his new identity as Pedro Pan, which he can use to molest small children free from the view of the rest of the world.

http://www.guzer.com/pictures/home_alone.jpg

[B u r l]

inb4 paed... o wait

[Rkhon]

The Thriller Diddler is dead!

[Kagemusha22]

Ah the lounge, where remorse is only temporary.

[Jovian M]

I think this news came as a thriller to everyone. :/ The only person that'll miss him more than anyone here is this one Liberian girl I know.

[Hookswords]

I know he was a freak and has had a lot of bad press for years but.....He made Thriller.

[Muz]

hMnk7lh9M3o

[SMILEFACE]

hMnk7lh9M3o

THats hella funny Muz i was gunna post that too :D
Michael Jackson RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKSSSSSSSSSS! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Robert.B]

the internet.... ...gawd* :|

[Chauncey Pierce]

Man...I realize that death is a facet of life and that no one persons death should outweigh another but 2 celebrities in one day is a pretty heavy hit. My condolences to the family members and fans of both Farrah Fawcett and Micheal Jackson.

Cherish those around you while you have them because you'll never know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al9JFOwxV5M

[Dave_]

His death came as such a heartbreaker

[LORD M]

He gave really much to the world of music, it's a shame how it turned out for him.

I really doubt that he was a pedophile, the media have really been on him like vultures, making huge headlines and loads of money out of him, so one can really think twice about their intrests in this.


R.I.P. Michael Jackson.

[Hyskoa]

The guy they used to play the girl => Absolutely fucking hilarious.
Honestly.

[GriNGo]

RIP Michael Jackson...

[Arshes Nei]

A global star everyone copied:

Z7FD2Yp1K-4

[Costau D]

RIP Michael Jackson

Jeff Goldblum is possibly dead now as well... unconfirmed

[Kagemusha22]

His death came as such a heartbreaker

Enough with the puns already, are people hoping to make his entire back catalogue into some meme-esque joke?

Edit -

Jeff Goldblum is possibly dead now as well... unconfirmed

Why don't we just rename this thread the 'Dead celebrity' thread. Fucking hell. (http://www.manolith.com/2009/06/25/jeff-goldblum-too-another-rumored-death/)

[Sphyzex_9]

Show some respect people. Despite his troubles he totally changed music forever. RIP

[Jazz]

RIP Michael Jackson...I am still in shock, and just upset...

But I was already upset today because my uncle died today. :( Bless you, uncle.

So it's not exactly a happy afternoon for me.

[Costau D]

Why don't we just rename this thread the 'Dead celebrity' thread. Fucking hell. (http://www.manolith.com/2009/06/25/jeff-goldblum-too-another-rumored-death/)

Nope look likes another fake. I thought it sounded familiar. http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/tomhanks.asp

Edit: sorry about that I shouldn't have posted so soon.

[Katfayheirti]

hmmmmm....I was just a wee kid when he, Fawcet, and McMahon were famous, so I find it difficult to relate. I suppose that in a few years, when I start getting old, they'll announce the deaths of people I'm a fan of, like Hugh Laurie and Steven Colbert, then I'll probably have kids who'll ask me who they were and the cycle will begin anew....

[smugbug]

Quite a one-two punch today. I'll be listening to Thriller while watching Saturn 3 (or Charlie's Angels or even Logan's Run). RIP, Farrah and Michael.

[smugbug]

Jeff Goldblum is possibly dead now as well... unconfirmed

Just a Twitter hoax. ;)

[VulgarDragon]

I grew up in the 80's so I remember when Farrah Facwet was a Charlie's Angels girl, when Ed Mahon was in my mailbox on those publishing clearing house letters, and when Michael Jackson was black and looked like a human.

Wow...seems like just about everybody I grew up with is dead or dying. Hmph. I must be getting old.

Jokes aside, my deep sympathies to their families...

[FranciscoShreds]

Fuck... This sucks really bad... Leaving behind an amazing legacy. Now I gotta go play through all my MJ records.

[Robert.B]

WTF is going on today I got off the phone like 2 hours ago and my sisster told me that my cousins father died if not today I think a few days prior.

[mairuku]

Aw no way...I can't believe two died today!

He's made his impact in the music industry for sure. We dance to thriller every year at our new years party so we'll do a whole Michael Jackson this year to boot. heh.

Condolences to their families.

[FranciscoShreds]

WTF is going on today I got off the phone like 2 hours ago and my sisster told me that my cousins father died if not today I think a few days prior.

:'(((((

[biglu]

50's no age at all. Sad day.

Sad too for Farrah Fawcett - both she and Michael seemed to have had a rotten time these last few years and both are gone well before their time. RIP.

[Sphyzex_9]

Check this out

6ZEAC27GysI&

[armando]

hmmmmm....I was just a wee kid when he, Fawcet, and McMahon were famous, so I find it difficult to relate. I suppose that in a few years, when I start getting old, they'll announce the deaths of people I'm a fan of, like Hugh Laurie and Steven Colbert, then I'll probably have kids who'll ask me who they were and the cycle will begin anew....

Michael Jackson was/is a huge international superstar, who's career influenced many many people: dancers, singers, producers, and people not even in the entertainment industry. A lot of what you see and hear in entertainment was derived from him. You don't need to be a fan to understand that. Hugh Laurie is just another actor, Steven Colbert is just a guy who does the news on comedy central.

[JailHouseRock2]

'Pop star Michael Jackson has died in Los Angeles, aged 50.

Paramedics were called to the singer's home around midday local time on Thursday after he stopped breathing.

"He was pronounced dead two hours later after arriving at hospital in full cardiac arrest", said Fred Corral of the LA County Coroner's office.'

Link- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8119993.stm.

[Kagemusha22]

Hugh Laurie's also a good comedian, and writer. :wink: Look to his 80's work, with Stephen Fry and when on-board the Blackadder team. (One of the greatest British sitcoms ever, even better than The Office)

[HunterKiller_]

Sad news. I just wish he could've gone in better light...

R.I.P Moon walker.

[Noa K]

I can't believe he's dead... the world just lost one of the greatest inovators, and would be missing him.

sorry. still in shock...

R I P Michael Jackson

[smugbug]

Just read a very funny Michael Jackson/Macualay Culkin story. Got the heads-up via Twitter, btw.

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/2008-12-6-motion-captured/posts/2009-6-25-michael-jackson-is-gone

Enjoy (and it really is funny and the rest is bittersweet).

[Interceptor]

Even people who say they hated his music.. one of his songs comes on, all the toes start tapping. So sad to have him go.

[shamandalie]

I loved his music.

Rest in Peace Michael Jackson.

[chriskot]

Oh man, this really sucks.

The poor guy got a lot of bad press with those peadophelia allegations (some definitely false) and other crazy rumors. What matters though is that he wrote some catchy songs and made some awesome dances and videos, and was just an interesting character overall. I listened to his music in the car most of the way home and I think I'll play some Moonwalker soon.

Also, I have never seen a thread in the lounge grow this quickly.

[Chingwa]

This is horrible. I'm shocked and saddened. The guy may have fallen out of favor but he seriously had few equals in the realm of entertainment. sad to see him go, and soooo young!

Michael we children of the 70's/80's loved you
:( :( :( :( :(

[waffleKoan]

Michael Joseph Jackson 1958 - 2009 :(

[Ilaekae]

My sympathies on your uncle, Jazz'... :(

[Kamikazebob]

I'll remember his music, not him

I do love Warren ellis, always makes me smile.
Michael Jackson must surely have five younger hearts rigged in tandem inside his chest by now? Just stick a pen in his ear to reset him.

I understand he was found not breathing: but what if he'd already surgically bypassed the very need to breathe?

Oh my god BBC are trotting out Uri Geller. What's he going to do, make Michael Jackson a new heart out of bent fucking spoons? -Warren Ellis

[Black Spot]

Just... Wow! This is what I wake up to. I remember Michael as a kid and such great music. Then there was Farrah's impossible to copy hair (well I did try back then like everyone else.) Did she manage to marry Ryan before she died?

[Sorknes]

I'll remember him as what he was when I was growing up, not what he's been today - as in looking at the telly trying to copy his moves singing until my throat went sore. The impact he did shows today everywhere, it's hard to miss.

R.I.P. MJ and Farrah.

I guess I'll remember which night he died, heh.

[SlowDaddie]

as odd as his life was, he lived an amazing life. 100 million Thriller albums sold. you try to do that. I never knew I would be so affected by his death. I haven't thought of, or cared about Michael Jackson for the past 15 or so years. When I watch "Beat It" on YouTube, it really hit home.

Michael Jackson, even with his eccentricties and controversies, was a fabolously entertaining person. I'm going to sing "Beat It" the next time I go out with my friends to a karaoke bar.

I remember being a little kid and singing some Michael Jackson in the bathroom, trying to copy his moves.

[CGMonkey]

I've never really understood how much he has meant to me until now. I've never considered myself a huge Michael Jackson fan (never owned any records even, which will be corrected very soon) but yet I have so many memories to and from his music.

One of the first comments of his death around the office was "Well he was a weirdo" -- Most of US here are weirdos, so sure he was a weirdo but that doesn't justify him dying at the young age of 50.

We've been indoctrinated during the last 20 years that Michael is a weirdo, pedophile or what not. My sincere feeling is that he loves children in the way everyone does and scared parents made media go ballistic and then couldn't back off because of the media hype.

Dark days,

~B

[El Jeremie]

He never sing "Back in Black" from AC/DC.

This is me second crappiest joke ever.

[George Abraham]

He even changed the way Micky mouse looked..

Bizarre.

King of gesture. RIP

[Muscari]

i always wondered just how people felt when they received the news of elvis' or john lenon's death... it was just shocking to get such news =(

[B u r l]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8120324.stm

[Kagemusha22]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8120324.stm

I wonder will Paul McCartney when his time comes, recieve a similar reaction?

[Tetrodotoxin]

I prefer to believe that he's hanging out somewhere in a flat share with Elvis. They both still live...

[darkwolf29a]

i always wondered just how people felt when they received the news of elvis' or john lenon's death... it was just shocking to get such news =(

I felt the same way when I heard Elvis dies..I was liek Wow!!! What will I feel like when someone I knew pretty well dies. Then, John Lenon died...That was sad and shocking all at the same time.

Personally, I cannot say that I was a huge fan of his music, and I was less fan of his antics off stage. The surgeries, etc, were not only weird, but disturbing IMO. I can only imagine that pain he had to go through.

My sincerest hope is that he is out of what ever pain he was in, because I cannot imagine that he wasn't in pain, either physically or mentally.

One thing is certain, the worlds lost two important people yesterday...One hung on my wall as a kid, the other played all the time on the radio.

RIP FF & MJ

[IKV Nexis]

I'll remember his music, not him

I do love Warren ellis, always makes me smile.
Michael Jackson must surely have five younger hearts rigged in tandem inside his chest by now? Just stick a pen in his ear to reset him.

I understand he was found not breathing: but what if he'd already surgically bypassed the very need to breathe?

Oh my god BBC are trotting out Uri Geller. What's he going to do, make Michael Jackson a new heart out of bent fucking spoons? -Warren Ellis

Michael Jackson and Farrah are dead and Uri Geller is still alive? Where is the justice in THAT?

[Arshes Nei]

In a way I'm kinda not surprised this happened. I always heard reports about him being depressed and a lot often mentioned his drug addiction.

TMZ is reporting the live in doctor who was reported with to be with MJ has gone MIA, also that family members have been saying he received a large dose of Demerol around 11:30 am yesterday. Can't confirm and the autopsy is going on today.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-doctor-morphene-demerol-lapd-overdose/

If you ever heard his Blood on the Dance Floor/History of the World album he was singing about how Demerol was messing him up.

SiPFfSZYpfk

It's a shame really.

[Slash]

He's made a ton of great songs, but it feels weird to mourn him NOW when all his songs that i like were made before i was born..

Thanks for the tunes, i'll rock billie jean tonight in your honour.

[Black Spot]

I've been randomly moonwalking when no one is watching - badly.

[donm]

in the words of lenny: 'eh.'

[Frank Gressie]

somehow it does more to me then i would think :/
part youth i guess...he's a true legend now. may he rest in peace.

[FightingSeraph]

Even with all the scandals surrounding him, he was one of the most talented people around.

[MattGamer]

i think he's still alive. i mean, come on, what was his comeback tour going
to be named? "reborn"? and once he comes back, people will buy all his merch,
and boost America's economy. it will be called in the michael jackson economy
boost in history books to come! i just know it.

him and heath ledger are gonna comeback! :D wooo!!! i can't wait!

[SoufMeng]

:(

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BezYBvWtYWU&hl=fr&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BezYBvWtYWU&hl=fr&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

[draw]

Found this

[Noa K]

it was actually drawn by michael jackson, published in the HIStory booklet... not only he was one of the greatest musical talents in the world, but the man could draw! damn!

[B u r l]

Wow, I've heard the song but that picture is pretty moving.

[wilkerson]

If he was still alive not many would care what he was up to because he hasn't done anything worth praise in 15 years. I feel sorry for his terrible childhood but alot of people learn how to cope and become better with age, he did not.
I'm sick of hearing about him already, sorry.

[Crass]

I am pretty appalled by the public reaction to his death, actually. It can't be a good thing that musicians and film stars have this kind of influence on people. Sure, the arts may evoke all kinds of emotions and reactions in an individual, but from there to letting the author, as a person, influence your actions and opinions is a pretty big leap. It just doesn't make sense to me to promote people to iconic status because they release a few popular music albums. With media expansion these people are to an increasing extent becoming authority figures in society, I can't see what good will come of this.

Hopefully it's mostly just mass hysteria though, half of these people probably wouldn't have given a damn if nobody else did.

[SoufMeng]

If he was still alive not many would care what he was up to because he hasn't done anything worth praise in 15 years.What's your point exactly?

I feel sorry for his terrible childhood but alot of people learn how to cope and become better with age, he did not.
Personally im not sure about the statistics of how people cope with childhood abuse issues, are you? because if we're both equally ignorant on the issue, then i can just say that i think he did exceptionally great (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_received_by_Michael_Jackson) because "a lot of people dont learn how to cope with it, grow worse with age and may become violent and even get involved in foul play".

I'm sick of hearing about him already, sorry.
Once again wrong thread. Everyday i too am sick of hearing about the death of one on a loop while thousands die everyday in more terrible circumstances.
But hey go start your own thread where you can say how sick you were of hearing about Diana, the pope, Brown, etc

Of all the numerous "dude X is dead" threads we had, i find this one to be one of the most untactful.

[ManicShadow]

I am pretty appalled by the public reaction to his death, actually. It can't be a good thing that musicians and film stars have this kind of influence on people. Sure, the arts may evoke all kinds of emotions and reactions in an individual, but from there to letting the author, as a person, influence your actions and opinions is a pretty big leap. It just doesn't make sense to me to promote people to iconic status because they release a few popular music albums. With media expansion these people are to an increasing extent becoming authority figures in society, I can't see what good will come of this.

Hopefully it's mostly just mass hysteria though, half of these people probably wouldn't have given a damn if nobody else did.

Michael Jackson did more for the world than release a few wildly popular music albums. We not only lost a man of great talent, we also lost a great humanitarian and philanthropist.

[Crass]

Michael Jackson did more for the world than release a few wildly popular music albums. We not only lost a man of great talent, we also lost a great humanitarian and philanthropist.

It may be so, but great people die every day and nobody takes notice, my point being that this is not what the majority of people look up to in Michael Jackson even if he was a great person (who really knows what he was like). If people really admired philanthropy and humanitarian endeavors above all we would have a completely different set of 'celebrities' appearing in the media, there are men and women out there who dedicate their entire lives to helping others but these people are not wealthy, extravagant or dramatic, and they don't have billion dollar studios promoting them... People like celebrity in and of itself, the most exposed are the most famed.

[Arshes Nei]

Anime Expo is here right now at the Staples Center, Jackson's memorial will be Tuesday and the Ringling Bros circus comes in on Weds...it's like one circus after another.

Maybe I'm the only one that recognizes Michael Jackson was a human being? He did a number or great things that impacted me and quite a number of terrible things that also impacted me. One can be more than one thing. People hand wringing whether or not he's a pedophile (which can also be different than actually molesting kids) since he's a music/performing giant. You know, it's entirely possible to be all of the above, and it doesn't necessarily negate the other. That's just part of humanity.

[Bronke]

The Michael Jackson worship is way way out of hand. Even disregarding the possibility of some hanky panky with children, people are acting like he was some sort of messiah.

And now here in Los Angeles, they are going to spend an estimated 2 million dollars of tax payer money to pay for the police force needed for the Memorial at the Staples Center. Sorry, but fuck you. I don't want my tax dollars spent like that especially when we're in a financial crisis.

[Kagemusha22]

The amount of praise Jackson's recieved since his death, you'd be surprised he didn't cure cancer. Even that tit Piers Morgan claimed he was more talented than Elvis or John Lennon.

A talented man? Yes. Troubled? Definitely. The most influential black pop musician ever? Please.

(It's sad that the likes of pioneers like Bo Diddley didn't recieve quarter as much coverage as Jackson, especially since most rock bands base their songwriting model on his, though I'm not surprised. Diddley died at a ripe old age and didn't have the huge commercial success like Jackson, but his music's impact was on a grand scale.)

[chriskot]

I can understand people finding Michael Jackson to be overrated, but it seems kind of tactless to discuss it here. I mean, you wouldn't show up at a person's wake or funeral to say "Yeah, he was a cool guy, but what's with all the crying? He wasn't THAT great."

How about instead of being negative and calling him overrated, you think positive and start threads about the artists that are underrated in comparison? I'd love more threads in the lounge about people like Bo Diddley (although, for the record, people more often refer to him as a rock or blues musician then a pop artist).

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if you're tired of hearing about someone, the best course of action is to not go out of your way to discuss them.

[Crass]

I can understand people finding Michael Jackson to be overrated, but it seems kind of tactless to discuss it here. I mean, you wouldn't show up at a person's wake or funeral to say "Yeah, he was a cool guy, but what's with all the crying? He wasn't THAT great."

How about instead of being negative and calling him overrated, you think positive and start threads about the artists that are underrated in comparison? I'd love more threads in the lounge about people like Bo Diddley (although, for the record, people more often refer to him as a rock or blues musician then a pop artist).

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if you're tired of hearing about someone, the best course of action is to not go out of your way to discuss them.

It is a discussion forum after all, and this is a thread about the fact that Michael Jackson has died. It is an event that has in fact had major impact on our society, why shouldn't we be allowed to discuss the implications of this? The CA message board is no more equivalent to a funeral or wake than my living room or the street corner outside.

Coming in here just to say that Michael Jackson is over-rated as a musician is a bit low-brow, but I think it's still as legitimate a reaction as saying he's the greatest musician of all time, they are both reactions to this event and there really isn't any logic to only letting people who want to praise him speak their minds.

[Bronke]

I can understand people finding Michael Jackson to be overrated, but it seems kind of tactless to discuss it here. I mean, you wouldn't show up at a person's wake or funeral to say "Yeah, he was a cool guy, but what's with all the crying? He wasn't THAT great."

How about instead of being negative and calling him overrated, you think positive and start threads about the artists that are underrated in comparison? I'd love more threads in the lounge about people like Bo Diddley (although, for the record, people more often refer to him as a rock or blues musician then a pop artist).

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if you're tired of hearing about someone, the best course of action is to not go out of your way to discuss them.

Oh so praise is allowed but criticism isn't? What makes your opinion that much more valued? Besides, as Crass pointed out this is a forum. And this is not Michael Jackson's funeral or memorial, so your analogy is dishonest.

Also, criticizing people's reaction is hardly taking a jab at MJ himself. As I said before, my tax dollars are being used to support this overblown memorial service. If that's not a legitimate gripe and not an indication of how overrated this whole thing is, then I don't know what is.

[Shinn]

Before I saw it by myself on the new the day Michael jackson died, a friend called me and told me he got shot by black supremacists.

I believed him.

[Arshes Nei]

How about instead of being negative and calling him overrated, you think positive and start threads about the artists that are underrated in comparison?
.

I had an RIP Ernie Barnes thread not too long ago. That nearly got jack shit...so how is that for positive spin? This guy had done some great art for Sports and was on the TV show Good Times...

Only posted maybe 2 posts on MJ here.

[chriskot]

I guess that first part came across wrong. I wasn't trying to compare this thread to a funeral, I just tend to feel a bit strongly about the "respect for the dead" thing. Let them have their posthumous time in the spotlight and it'll all be over soon enough.

I still stand by my other two statements though. Lately it seems like the only thing some people can use the internet for is to bitch about things. If a person's response is "I don't care", then they're obviously wasting time. If their response is "musician x was better", then I'd rather hear them sing the praises of that musician then to put down MJ, or anyone else for that matter. Why does there have to be some maximum acceptable amount that people can like someone? How can you say that people like a good person too much? It's a ridiculous suggestion.

The tax thing, I suppose, is a complaint relevant to this thread. Fine. But from what I understand from your statement Bronke, the money is going toward police security, not making the memorial itself overly elaborate. It's not like they can hold any memorial for such an iconic and potentially contoversial character without security. I don't claim to know a lot about the American tax system, but I'm pretty sure that there are less petty tax issues you could be complaining about then the 60 cents or so you're putting toward this. I could probably find that money on the sidewalk in the time that it took you to type that. Not saying that you can't complain all you want, just that it doesn't seem worth getting so steamed up over.

[Crass]

I guess that first part came across wrong. I wasn't trying to compare this thread to a funeral, I just tend to feel a bit strongly about the "respect for the dead" thing. Let them have their posthumous time in the spotlight and it'll all be over soon enough.

I still stand by my other two statements though. Lately it seems like the only thing some people can use the internet for is to bitch about things. If a person's response is "I don't care", then they're obviously wasting time. If their response is "musician x was better", then I'd rather hear them sing the praises of that musician then to put down MJ, or anyone else for that matter. Why does there have to be some maximum acceptable amount that people can like someone? How can you say that people like a good person too much? It's a ridiculous suggestion.

The tax thing, I suppose, is a complaint relevant to this thread. Fine. But from what I understand from your statement Bronke, the money is going toward police security, not making the memorial itself overly elaborate. It's not like they can hold any memorial for such an iconic and potentially contoversial character without security. I don't claim to know a lot about taxes, but I'm pretty sure that there are less petty tax issues you could be complaining about then the 60 cents or so you're putting toward this. I could probably find that money on the sidewalk in the time that it took you to type that. Not saying that you can't complain all you want, just that it doesn't seem worth getting so steamed up over.

I don't agree. At some point liking someone very much crosses over into complete fanaticism, I think it is both irrational, psychologically unhealthy and on a large scale it can be very dangerous. If people love Michael Jackson so much that they feel the need to kill themselves because he died, fine, it's not a huge problem right now. My concern is more about where people turn and look to for ideas, that you are a talented musician doesn't automatically make you a good person or a role model, yet musicians command more and more authority these days (it seems like). This happened to end up in a Michael Jackson thread because I think the complete mass hysteria surrounding his death perfectly highlights the issue, whether he was a good person or not. I sound like a complete conservative, I'm not, but I think it's something worth noting.

[Bronke]

Why does there have to be some maximum acceptable amount that people can like someone? How can you say that people like a good person too much? It's a ridiculous suggestion.

Crass summed up what I would have said nicely so I won't repeat. And whether MJ was or wasn't a good person is up for debate. Your assertion that he was good is irrelevant to this discussion.

The tax thing, I suppose, is a complaint relevant to this thread. Fine. But from what I understand from your statement Bronke, the money is going toward police security, not making the memorial itself overly elaborate. It's not like they can hold any memorial for such an iconic and potentially contoversial character without security. I don't claim to know a lot about the American tax system, but I'm pretty sure that there are less petty tax issues you could be complaining about then the 60 cents or so you're putting toward this. I could probably find that money on the sidewalk in the time that it took you to type that. Not saying that you can't complain all you want, just that it doesn't seem worth getting so steamed up over.

Right. So you complaining about me complaining doesn't strike you as ironic? Without going into all the details of what was wrong with what you've said, you realize that as a tax paying citizen I have every right to complain where my dollars go, right? Especially when California where this is taking place in is in financial crisis.

And my final point, I sincerely doubt you'd have a problem with criticism with say, Saddam Hussein when he died.

[chriskot]

Why does there have to be some maximum acceptable amount that people can like someone? How can you say that people like a good person too much? It's a ridiculous suggestion.
When I wrote this, I realized immediately afterward that it was a silly statement and I knew that I was going to get called out on it. I would've modified it, but noticed at the bottom of the page that Crass was already reading the page and figured that he was already in the middle of arguing it anyway. That said, I haven't yet seen that sort of fanaticism in this case, especially from the other people in this thread, which is who I interpreted the comments to be directed towards, hence why I thought the comments seemed ridiculous.

Right. So you complaining about me complaining doesn't strike you as ironic? Without going into all the details of what was wrong with what you've said, you realize that as a tax paying citizen I have every right to complain where my dollars go, right? Especially when California where this is taking place in is in financial crisis.
If you re-read my statement, you will see that not only am I not complaining about your complaining (simply responding to it), but I already told you that you have every right to complain.

And my final point, I sincerely doubt you'd have a problem with criticism with say, Saddam Hussein when he died.
Are you seriously trying to compare Michael Jackson to Saddam Hussein? Seriously?



Either way, in the interest of keeping this thread on track and away from yet another political argument in the lounge, I think I'm done here.

Michael Jackson seemed like a nice guy, wrote some good tunes, danced some good dances, and most of us will miss him.

[Bronke]

If you re-read my statement, you will see that not only am I not complaining about your complaining (simply responding to it), but I already told you that you have every right to complain.

Right. We could go back and forth all night claiming who is and isn't complaining. But I'd rather not.

Are you seriously trying to compare Michael Jackson to Saddam Hussein? Seriously?

Coming from someone who compared this thread to MJ's private funeral. And no, I am not comparing MJ to Hussein. The point is that criticism of one means criticism of all. You don't get to pick and choose who shouldn't criticize who or what.

Funny, I actually like MJ's music a lot being that I grew up with his albums. But it doesn't mean we should shut up just because someone on the forum doesn't like what's being said.

[ManicShadow]

I think a better point that I should have made was that it is human nature to "worship" those we see as better than us. It is instinctive. Is it human nature to be critical of those people as well? Absolutely. However, I think its really pointless for either side to complain about it. (Myself included)


It may be so, but great people die every day and nobody takes notice, my point being that this is not what the majority of people look up to in Michael Jackson even if he was a great person (who really knows what he was like). If people really admired philanthropy and humanitarian endeavors above all we would have a completely different set of 'celebrities' appearing in the media, there are men and women out there who dedicate their entire lives to helping others but these people are not wealthy, extravagant or dramatic, and they don't have billion dollar studios promoting them... People like celebrity in and of itself, the most exposed are the most famed.

It is unfortunate that lesser known "great people" don't get as much attention as super popular celebrities, but that is life. If those underrated people were as popular as MJ they would get the exact same criticism, most likely from the exact same people who would only commend them for being unknown and pat themselves on the back for knowing who they are. The moment they realize everyone else knows who they are, the glamor vanishes.

My concern is more about where people turn and look to for ideas, that you are a talented musician doesn't automatically make you a good person or a role model, yet musicians command more and more authority these days (it seems like).

Yes, but most celebrities seem to promote positive ideas. So, I can't say I understand why it is such a horrible thing for people to look up to them as role models.

I could go into a long boring discussion about the evolution of human psychology and why this behavior is perfectly normal but that would be off-topic.

[Kagemusha22]

(although, for the record, people more often refer to him as a rock or blues musician then a pop artist).


It's different in Britain.
In Britain today, the terms of "pop" and "rock" are still more closely associated with each other than in the United States, where due to prejudice and musical history "pop" usually denotes only a solo artist, often female, seen to represent a tradition outside the province of guitar based music or with a very wide popularity. Thus, in the UK an artist such as Pulp might be characterized as pop, to denote their synth based sound and often populist appeal, while in the United States they might be categorized as rock, most likely as "alternative rock", for their "authentic," sometimes dark lyrics, perhaps for being white and male, and certainly for appealing to the type of people seen to listen to critic-sanctioned indie rock bands, rather than "superficial pop" music.

[Crass]

I think a better point that I should have made was that it is human nature to "worship" those we see as better than us. It is instinctive. Is it human nature to be critical of those people as well? Absolutely. However, I think its really pointless for either side to complain about it. (Myself included)



It is unfortunate that lesser known "great people" don't get as much attention as super popular celebrities, but that is life. If those underrated people were as popular as MJ they would get the exact same criticism, most likely from the exact same people who would only commend them for being unknown and pat themselves on the back for knowing who they are. The moment they realize everyone else knows who they are, the glamor vanishes.



Yes, but most celebrities seem to promote positive ideas. So, I can't say I understand why it is such a horrible thing for people to look up to them as role models.

I could go into a long boring discussion about the evolution of human psychology and why this behavior is perfectly normal but that would be off-topic.

Yes, but it is also human nature to rape, pillage and murder. As we live together in society there is an element of suppression of human nature, there are a lot of things that can be said of that but in the end I think it comes down to reason. I don't believe there is a point for anyone to worship anything. I'm not a fascist, if people want to dedicate their lives to worship, whether it be religious, corporate, iconic.... it's really their prerogative in the end but I really rather they didn't, because it generally inhibits all of the qualities that I think are good in humans from flourishing, and in the end this hurts me because I am human too.

As for who's famous and who's not I am really talking very generally, my argument isn't really about individuals but about what makes somebody famous in the first place. Being a huge movie star guarantees you immense exposure, yet it takes very little skill or knowledge that is actually useful to humanity. Some of them may promote good ideas, but why not make that the criteria in the first place instead? Why not listen to people who have good things to say and let them influence our lives instead of listening to people who are beautiful and rich regardless of what they have to say?

[Frank Gressie]

this thread is going to nowhere land...

[Kagemusha22]

this thread is going to nowhere land...

No it's on the train to over-indulgence;

RzYnPUjvZC0

[Shinn]

this thread is going to nowhere land...

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=716540&stc=1&d=1246906642

[Krato]

im getting tired of constantly hearing about micheal jacksons death on CNN, its been nonstop for what two weeks?

[Arshes Nei]

I can't believe we the taxpayers are going to pay 4 million dollars for his memorial. I don't understand why the guys who were going to run his last concert tour couldn't pay? While some can argue that some hotels and local businesses are making money because of the tourists or people coming in to see the memorial, it's a wash and a loss because a lot of businesses also had to shut down due to the traffic being re-routed.

It's not even that I don't think he shouldn't get a big memorial, he was huge...but it's not fair on Taxpayer dollars. This is especially true because of our financial crisis in Los Angeles County and California is already handing out IOUs because we're broke and can't pass a budget.

[Jazz]

4 million dollars?? Crap! o_O I won't lie, I'd love to go to that memorial, but that price is harsh for the tax payers, indeed!

[Rist]

im getting tired of constantly hearing about micheal jacksons death on CNN, its been nonstop for what two weeks?

Well you know he's the second coming of Jesus, or going should I say. :asslick:

[Peter Coene]

I guess that first part came across wrong. I wasn't trying to compare this thread to a funeral, I just tend to feel a bit strongly about the "respect for the dead" thing. Let them have their posthumous time in the spotlight and it'll all be over soon enough.

I believe in respecting graves, respecting ceremonies (including those associated with death), and respecting the dead in general. However, dead or alive an individual has to earn my respect. MJ did not.

I still stand by my other two statements though. Lately it seems like the only thing some people can use the internet for is to bitch about things. If a person's response is "I don't care", then they're obviously wasting time. If their response is "musician x was better", then I'd rather hear them sing the praises of that musician then to put down MJ, or anyone else for that matter.
Their complaints seem to be valid. Plus, you are complaining about them complaining; doesn't that seem a bit hypocritical?

Why does there have to be some maximum acceptable amount that people can like someone? How can you say that people like a good person too much? It's a ridiculous suggestion.
Because there is a maximum amount you can like someone, or dislike them for that matter. Its called obsession.

The tax thing, I suppose, is a complaint relevant to this thread. Fine. But from what I understand from your statement Bronke, the money is going toward police security, not making the memorial itself overly elaborate. It's not like they can hold any memorial for such an iconic and potentially contoversial character without security.
Sure they can. Nobody would tell the media when or where it is, only a few people would be invited and only under the condition that they tell nobody, and the body would be cremated and the world would go on. Yippee. Its about the same attention anyone shy of a Dalai Lama/Pope/Monarch deserves and I don't care how famous I get, if people start acting so looney about my death that they need to call in the cops then I'm going to ask God (or Satan, if I end up in his place instead) to smite their worthless asses.

I don't claim to know a lot about the American tax system, but I'm pretty sure that there are less petty tax issues you could be complaining about then the 60 cents or so you're putting toward this. I could probably find that money on the sidewalk in the time that it took you to type that. Not saying that you can't complain all you want, just that it doesn't seem worth getting so steamed up over.
The taxes aren't so much going directly to the protection of his funeral, but instead they are going to the paychecks of the police, and they are being used for this purpose. For such a funeral service to require police crowd control shows that the treatment of the man's death, like everything in his life, is frivolous, overextravagant, decadent, and etirely uncalled for. Plus, I'd think that with how much he payed off parents to keep their mouths shut about him diddling their kids that his estate could also pay for body gaurds to take care of this junk.