really straight lines

[soverynight]

hello,

sorry if this is already posted somewhere.. didn't have time read everything.

i am wondering, how do people make really nice thin straight lines when doing landscape drafts. like inner spaces that have a lot of detail or outdoors with lots of buildings & cars.

rulers? lots of erasing? really really steady hands?

also.. should i pick up a book?

thanks!

[Hexism]

I'd say rulers.

[Elwell]

also.. should i pick up a book?

The answer to this question is always yes.

[Mon Chat]

i saw someone saying that you should draw to dots and try to link them up as quick as you can as practice, they were like 2 inches apart... and they did it a few times.
rulers are also good

also, "this book is on a switch which will make us all explode if i pick it up, should i pick it up?"

[soverynight]

The answer to this question is always yes.

:)

any recommendations?

also.. i thought rulers might make it look unnatural. i thought it could also be done with some sort of awesome layering, of drawing and erasing... i donno.. because erasing just leaves marks on the paper.

[soverynight]

ps: i don't know what i'm talking about. oh and i just realized i'm asking 2 questions.
really straigh lines & getting really clean lines (for lines that aren't necessarily straight).

@mon chat: i like the dot idea!

[CCThrom]

If you want really clean lines and you're working with pencil, you've GOT to do a lot (at least some) erasing. It doesn't leave marks as badly on good paper, but mostly I think a lot of people do what I do nowadays... which is to knock the erase marks out digitally.

[soverynight]

Hey thanks CCThrom!

Btw, does anyone have good ruler recommendations? I'm going shopping... :) And thinking small and metalic, with a good edge.

[CCThrom]

Get at least 1 good ruler... metal with a no-slip back, but I'd recommend also getting at least 1 clear ruler, preferably with graphic lines marked on it. It's sometimes really helpful to be able to see your lines underneath the ruler. (I periodically buy clear 6-inch rules coz they're cheap and I tend to lose them...)

[Enydimon]

What about drawing lines side by side that have to be even, like seams on your pants for instance? I always have trouble getting everything even, not sure a ruler can fix it.

[OmenSpirits]

If you want really clean lines and you're working with pencil, you've GOT to do a lot (at least some) erasing. It doesn't leave marks as badly on good paper, but mostly I think a lot of people do what I do nowadays... which is to knock the erase marks out digitally.
Kneaded eraser works wonders.

No paper tearing.

[arttorney]

What about drawing lines side by side that have to be even, like seams on your pants for instance? I always have trouble getting everything even, not sure a ruler can fix it.There's always practice. I doubt if you always have this problem. More likely you always had this problem so far.

[darkwolf29a]

Rulers are great, don't get me wrong. But, don't use them as a crutch. It does take time to get used to sketching straight lines.

I'm not syaing don't use the ruler, I'm saying...practice with and without the ruler. ;)

[CCThrom]

Not a big fan of kneaded erasers... like using a sledge hammer to drive a nail IMO. Give me a white plastic eraser any day, no paper tear there either and less alteration to the surface texture. What I was talking about is the inevitable smudges that happen with any eraser.

707961

The way I work THIS ^ is the shizzit for cleaning up pencil lines.

[OmenSpirits]

Not a big fan of kneaded erasers... like using a sledge hammer to drive a nail IMO. Give me a white plastic eraser any day, no paper tear there either and less alteration to the surface texture. What I was talking about is the inevitable smudges that happen with any eraser.

707961

The way I work THIS ^ is the shizzit for cleaning up pencil lines.
the kneaded can get rid of excess graphite/lead without erasing the line you want. you can dab with the kneaded and still retain paper integrity. never had smudges with a Kneaded so I couldn't say about that.

I use a similiar eraser like the one you posted if I want to completely erase a line, but to get the lines clean and not lose the primary, kneaded eraser for me.

[Max Challie]

Is it possibly a combination of confidence, practise, and lite-handedness?

[Amazing Action Ape]

Drawing Straight lines, is ALL confidence. For LONG straight lines, tilting the paper so that you are drawing down to towards you and then just pull yourself back as you draw using your arm not wrist seems to work wonders.

But above all else, practice makes perfect.

[Linguini]

Breathing out when you draw a line. :)

[Elwell]

A kneaded eraser is my second most important drawing tool.

[jrr]

also you MUST be left handed. MUST.

or just practice drawing lines and copying them over and over again.

[Muz]

This guys doesnt know the meaning of the word ruler :P.

http://drawthrough.com/galleries.php?page=show_art&gallery_id=228&art_id=2772&gallery_cat=ed&page_num=1

Thats all freehand, so it shows it is possible. I know he has some [thou that shall not be named] downloads and i think they would help if you want to learn really technical perspective, but because its [thou that shall not be named] its expensive.

Also check out yoitisi's thread http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=116199

[Enydimon]

There's always practice. I doubt if you always have this problem. More likely you always had this problem so far.

People keep telling me to practise, but they never say what I can do to practise it. It's not that I avoid drawing two organic lines that need to be a certain width apart, I tackle it every time, I just haven't really seen improvement or figured out what I can do.

[reme]

just get a piece of big paper, draw many dots around it, find 1 dot and try connect it to another dot. keep doing it til you filled every dots.

if your lines isn't straight before it reaches the dot, do not connect it and draw again. redraw the line.

[Zazerzs]

getting a straight line with out rulers? go with the point to point method

Mark where you want to start the line,
Mark where you want the line to end.
Go back to 1st dot put pencil to paper , look at second dot, in one motion draw line from 1st dot to second dot while looking at 2nd dot and not your pencil.

Practice till your lines are straight.

[Max Challie]

also you MUST be left handed. MUST.

or just practice drawing lines and copying them over and over again.

I'm left handed, and i don't think i can draw a long, perfectly straight line. Wha?

[CCThrom]

the kneaded can get rid of excess graphite/lead without erasing the line you want. you can dab with the kneaded and still retain paper integrity

Hmmm, this is a different way of thinking about it for me... after this explanation and Elwell's post, I'm gonna give kneaded erasers another try ;) always learning...

[Elwell]

I tend to draw with a heavy hand, so I'll go in several times with a kneaded eraser over the course of a drawing, reducing the drawing to a ghost and then restating/correcting with pencil. For small areas I tap or press, for large areas I form the eraser into a ball and roll it over the surface with some pressure, rather than rubbing.

[soverynight]

i'm not expert at this but i am thinking of going with the kneaded eraser approach too. i've been drawing with a lighter pencil and then going over it with darker pencils. Like: starting with 4H and then ending with 2B. But this is not working because using a 4H pencil leaves dents in the paper if I press to hard. Then when I try to shade over this I am left with white scratch marks. So ya - I definetely recommend at least trying that approach to anyone.

[CCThrom]

I tend to draw with a heavy hand
Me too, so I'll definitely give your technique a try. I've always used the white plastic erasers for this and I really like 'em, but kneaded sounds more versatile.

using a 4H pencil leaves dents in the paper if I press to hard
Yes it will... if you press that hard, shift to a softer pencil and make friends with your eraser.

[arttorney]

enydimon- Yoitisi's island (mentioned above and findable here: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=116199 ) contains specific practice exercises for you. They really work.

[Serpian]

Oh, kneaded erasers compared to sledgehammers? Quite the opposite! Hard erasers do the heavy work, kneaded ones are for fine tuning.

[TheJester]

Definately no rulers man.

It CAN be done without a ruler, it just needs tons and tons of practice. As an architecture student, I had to get used to drawing perspective and isometric sketches of just about anything, from whole neighbourhoods, to structural details such as columns, beams, steel structures, anything.
I am far from being very good at it, but it is doable. Just really really concentrate, loosen your arm, lift the weight off your palm, and draw the line once, in a steady motion.
For me it allways works to allmost lift my hand completely off the page, and move from the shoulder. It could also help to extend your pinkie so that the only thing touching the paper is the point of the pencil and the point of your pinkie...

Most importantly, draw BIG. It can be frustrating, for a looong time, but when you can draw a decent interior on A3 paper, or even just draw a straight horizon that wide, you can pretty much get anything look straight... Just needs patience!

[3R1C]

I just try to shape out the line..by going lightly, and then going over it with a more defined line, and erase all of the lines that were there to help your shaping. It's the same with curved lines.

[Kjesta]

For me it allways works to allmost lift my hand completely off the page, and move from the shoulder. It could also help to extend your pinkie so that the only thing touching the paper is the point of the pencil and the point of your pinkie...

Yup, keep your hand off that page. It really helps not to draw from the wrist. Also, don't draw superslow - don't race the pencil across your paper superfast as it tends to get sloppy, but do it in a good speed to keep yourself from starting to wobble to much.

Also agreed: kneaded erasers are your best mates :confident

[rossipoo]

Draw from your shoulders instead of your wrist.