anatomy help

[Vay]

i draw without keeping in mind the internal structure of a lets say... human.

i just draw and erase and draw and erase until it looks correct (as it looks to me)

but i don't have any idea what is the standard notion of the correct human anatomy and much less the anatomy of anything living.

is it more acceptable to learn anatomy inside out?

or is it more acceptable to just sketch out a body without drawing the inside of a person first and then erasing it to draw the outside?

[rpace]

If you ever want to be competant at drawing the human (or any) form you have to learn the skeletal and muscular anatomy.

There have been, and will likely continue to be artists who can draw things reasonably well from a superficial standpoint from the model or photos while being ignorant of the inner mechanics of the body, but the work is often inaccurate and lifeless.

~R

[Vay]

If you ever want to be competant at drawing the human (or any) form you have to learn the skeletal and muscular anatomy.

There have been, and will likely continue to be artists who can draw things reasonably well from a superficial standpoint from the model or photos while being ignorant of the inner mechanics of the body, but the work is often inaccurate and lifeless.

~R

are certain muscle parts adjustable like adding an extra pair abdominal bump?
or a big shoulder to represent buffness?

is it necessary to follow leonardo's theory that certain parts of your body are proportional to other parts of your body? because my reason is that sometimes people don't grow to their maximum height or length by body so will it still be necessary?

[Flake]

All musculature is kinda variable. Skeletons, not so much.
big shoulder to represent buffness?
Kinda, shoulders can be developed to a mad extent but they will always be the same shape and attach to the same points on the skeleton.

If I spend 2 years doing bicep curls I will have ludicrously large biceps compared to the rest of me..Won't change the shape or attachment points.

are certain muscle parts adjustable like adding an extra pair abdominal bump?
No. No matter how many situps you do the abs will have the same number of bumps and will be more or less uniform (although the spacing can vary slightly).
What usually happens is that anyone that determined to get a 6 pack loses so much body fat that things are visible on them that aren't seen on Joe Average Guy..
Edit: example would be that parts of the pelvis become visible in a way they aren't on people who eat burgers..

Just buy an anatomy book. It's unavoidable if you want to paint vaguely realistic humans.

Stephen Rogers Peck is good and cheap.

[Zazerzs]

You can only draw what you know,.

Unless you study anatomy you wont have the correct masses and shapes in your mind to draw from. You'll just make shapes that have no real relation to the muscles you are trying to create.

you study a systematic set up of proportions to have something to deviate from. How do you know to draw something large if you don't know the correct "normal" size?

knowing real anatomy gives you the freedom to make up anatomy on your own and have it look and feel convincing.

[armando]

" just draw and erase and draw and erase until it looks correct " This sounds like a good plan to me. In the end all you have to trust is your eyes. We are artists first and anatomists second.
I like what rpace said about "mechanics of the body". Anatomy isn't just shapes and bumps. I believe that the only point to studying anatomy is to learn how to create figures with dynamic actions/gesture. That is shown by representing things as they appear in the real world, study up on levers and simple machines if you are unfamilar with them. So we need to show masses, and ropes which cross those masses in order to move them like levers. For example: the hand, the forearm, and the upper arm are three masses. Then in order for those to move there are muscles and tendons, which are like ropes that pull on the masses.

I have a certain movement in mind, then I reason out which muscles are causing that movement.

The upper arm, forearm, and hand.
I cross the upper arm and forearm with the tendon of the bicep.
I cross the forearm and hand with the tendons of the flexor muscles.
Then arrange those forms into their descriptive movement, and indicate where the tendons are pulling.
707696

Study Bridgman, but supplement him with something like Paul Richer's Artistic anatomy, or another book that has clear, straightforward diagrams. Keep trusting your eyes, use your intuition first, then double check it with your anatomical knowledge, but if your imagination comes up with something more expressive listen to it. You could have any number of ropes pulling on a mass, as long as the mechanical principles are followed people will understand it.

[Vay]

i read in a book that female and male have the same structures in muscle and skeleton except for the skull and that women have smoother outlines due to there being more fat, so if a woman is skinny so do i draw the muscles?
and what are the differences in female anatomy and male anatomy because i can't find any reference books on female anatomy, most of the preferred books are majorly composed of male anatomy sketches.

I have george B. bridgman's complete guide to drawing from life and i can't find an example for female anatomy.

most of the drawing in the book are messy and can't seem to clearly see what is going on.

[Flake]

and what are the differences in female anatomy and male anatomy because i can't find any reference books on female anatomy, most of the preferred books are majorly composed of male anatomy sketches.

The ribcage and (especially) pelvis are different.

Borrow the Peck book from the library.

[ferretula]

the inside? what are you talking about, guts and stuff? i always start with the head, it determines EVERYTHING else on the body, then draw real rough sketch of the torso and limbs, make sure everything is the right size, then move on to drawing the musculature or fat placement, you know, depending on your character, then move on to clothing or props, then you can start doing some real line work and detail.

[rpace]

The "inside" refers to the basal gesture and structure, not guts. A simplified skeleton is usually built on this, which includes the head. Building everything from the head has its own issues.

~R

[AChipps]

If you want to draw a remote control you don't need to know how to build one, you just need to know all the functions on it, and how it looks. If you think I am saying you don't need to be able to draw the inside of a human to be able to draw the outside, you are right. Just think about it. If you draw a nude, and add clothes you would not need to know how the skin will look, or the skin wrinkles, or a lot of things, just what is exposed, and what the type of cloth reveals. Sure it is good to know the joint limits, and twist limits on some of the body, and if you want to draw some of the skeletion exposed or tissue sticking out, but to draw anatomy, you only need to now every thing that you will put to use. I drew everything in Biology, but when it came to drawing what things look like on the outside, it was a whole new lesson, in learning, and without that I still could not draw a person, but I have drawn dogs, and cats from the outside, and was better at that, than learning how to draw people. So I took one joint at a time, and watch the motion of each joint, and after 20 years some of that has faded, but I could still imagine the body move, because I have seen it everyday, and the only thing that I really feel looks odd is double jointed people. That really get my attention, because it is odd. Arms that bend back a little farther than normal, and arthritis when joints swell out of place. But if you learn the outside with the tendons that show in the joints, the loose skin on the hands, the demples, and wrinkles, and the way the muscles show through the skin, that would be the best way to start. You can skip everything you will not need, and if you do need it later, learn what you need to use, because you will not remember it forever.

[AChipps]

i read in a book that female and male have the same structures in muscle and skeleton except for the skull and that women have smoother outlines due to there being more fat, so if a woman is skinny so do i draw the muscles?


The bible is a book that tells you God took one rib from Adam to build Eve, so a woman has all her ribs, I think it is 16 on each side when the man has one missing. I never looked or counted so I don't know for sure, but I was also told that the woman has a bigger hip bone than a man, and it is easy to see the whole in the hip bone is bigger than a man for child birth. There are a lot of freaks of nature, and men that look like women, but they say that the easiest way to tell the difference is to look at their throat, because the woman don't have an Adams apple. I have seen men get fat from the waist down like a lot of women, and I can't say they grow a spare tire on the hips, or have a beer belly like men, but it does happen with belly dancers sometimes. With the face, most women have high cheek bones, and smaller chins, and don't need a shave, but there are women that do, mostly American Indian women, and Eskimos. The middle east women has big working hands like a carpenter. Mountain men have a very big large toe, for digging the toes in when they run up the mountains like big foot. There are a lot of things that are different because of the way of life where they are born making them adapt to years of a type of living and breeding.