Help my client is giving me a headache!

[Studio Colrouphobia]

First of all, I am very grateful for any help about this and the reason I post it here is because I'm not sure where else to post it.

I have a client who is casing me quite a headache right now.
I have a contract with him for sketches (we're talking about 30min-1hr sketches here) on a "per sketch basis".
These are simple and easy, but the headache starts at the sketching:
Client wish to see wip's and doesn't want anatomically correct sketches. The figures are basically "crotch-feet" figures where thighs are a distant dream and sometimes even the crotch-area is missing.
He also has a habit of altering the entire composition from the wips making these 1hr sketches taking me more like 4-5hrs.

Obviously I cannot afford doing 5hr-work for one hours worth of pay, but at the same time I am not wishing to break a contract.
What the heck do I do!???

The major problem is in the anatomically incorrect wishes, I never knew it was so difficult to paint/sketch faulty anatomy (I'm not talking about weird anatomy, but rather anatomy that makes it impossible for the character to walk or move).

[aesir]

draw us a quick 2 minute sketch of one of these anatomically incorrect people. I'm curious what they look like.

As far as your problem, I'm not sure I get it. If it's only a 30 minute sketch, how are you showing WIPs? Drawing for 10 minutes then showing progress? If I were you, I'd draw the sketch, bill that as one drawing, when he wants another sketch, based off the last one or not, bill him for it. Revisions also generally are worked into a contract. For example I might allow for so many hours of revisions on a piece, and any hours after that I charge a certain amount for.

[Arshes Nei]

Tell him you're billing him for the extra time it's taking. If the contract is for a certain time frame, wouldn't you already be breaking the contract by going outside that time frame anyways?

[Slash]

it might not be able for you to agree on an amendment to the contract on this point, but if you could agree on a 10 minute composition thumbnail first, and maximum 3 revisions per sketch it might help.

[Ghostbrush]

Hey sorry to hear of ur headache, sounds like a difficult situation, I would suggest saying something along the lines of the advice given here already, I not sure I can add to much as I have not the experience of this type of matter.

sorry I just interested in this as its a tough topic and I would to understand what one would do in such a situation, as i may well find myself in it.

sorry to be no use

[XanaChama]

He's trying to get as much as he can for his money, it's nothing personal, it's just business. You didn't think of this in advance, shame shame right? But now that you're seeing this is outside your contract, tell him you'll need to charge extra after X amount of revisions or whatever. You'll both learn from it, and he'll either figure out what he wants faster or he'll pay for the revisions (probably don't want to charge for what you've given him already). Keep it professional and take this as a lesson learned. You'll definitely know not to make this mistake next time, because I've definitely been there and it sucks!!!

[GriNGo]

I think you should just mention it to him. Be clear about the FACT that his changes are entirely new sketches to start with.

[Studio Colrouphobia]

draw us a quick 2 minute sketch of one of these anatomically incorrect people. I'm curious what they look like.

As far as your problem, I'm not sure I get it. If it's only a 30 minute sketch, how are you showing WIPs? Drawing for 10 minutes then showing progress? If I were you, I'd draw the sketch, bill that as one drawing, when he wants another sketch, based off the last one or not, bill him for it. Revisions also generally are worked into a contract. For example I might allow for so many hours of revisions on a piece, and any hours after that I charge a certain amount for.
I'm going to showcase what I did with them in my sketchbook entry once I get a clear-note from the client.
And showing WiP's was never part of the original deal neither, I explained that these take me about ½-1 hour and he was fine with it. When I then gave him the final illustration he asked for revisions and to be able to see a wip of it before finalized.
Second sketch has undergone 4 revisions >:| all being blamed on "language barrier".

Tell him you're billing him for the extra time it's taking. If the contract is for a certain time frame, wouldn't you already be breaking the contract by going outside that time frame anyways?

The contract is, stupidly enough, for sketches of a certain quality. I base my agreement on how long each sketch will take me, but I wasn't expecting 4 or more revisions on completed sketches >:|


it might not be able for you to agree on an amendment to the contract on this point, but if you could agree on a 10 minute composition thumbnail first, and maximum 3 revisions per sketch it might help.

This is close to what we have done, but "no more then 5 revisions" the problem is, though, that these "revisions" change composition. not just once, but everytime.

Hey sorry to hear of ur headache, sounds like a difficult situation, I would suggest saying something along the lines of the advice given here already, I not sure I can add to much as I have not the experience of this type of matter.

sorry I just interested in this as its a tough topic and I would to understand what one would do in such a situation, as i may well find myself in it.

sorry to be no use

That's okay, I posted this here to get advice, not just for me but hopefully it will help others to not end up in the same situation....

He's trying to get as much as he can for his money, it's nothing personal, it's just business. You didn't think of this in advance, shame shame right? But now that you're seeing this is outside your contract, tell him you'll need to charge extra after X amount of revisions or whatever. You'll both learn from it, and he'll either figure out what he wants faster or he'll pay for the revisions (probably don't want to charge for what you've given him already). Keep it professional and take this as a lesson learned. You'll definitely know not to make this mistake next time, because I've definitely been there and it sucks!!!

Thank you, and yes it sux.

I think you should just mention it to him. Be clear about the FACT that his changes are entirely new sketches to start with.

Thank you, I am getting some help here and hopefully it will work ou in the end.

Thankfully this contract is not the most steady and legally binding one (which is a fault I'm already aware of, make better contracts next time, but it is also a steep learning curve for me as I never really had any issues of this kind before.

I am grateful for all help provided here, and I hope to see some more help on similar issues.

If anyone has experienced "difficult" clients and wish to share problems and possible solutions to them, feel free to do so here!

[Stephen Mason]

to an extent i would write it off as experience, at least you have learned something from it.

x

[Slash]

thats why you agree on the composition in small thumbnails, and agree on no major changes in composition after the thumbnail has been approved. (or charge extra if he needs revisions after you agree on a composition) And 3 revisions should be plenty i think, at least for 30 min - 1 hour sketches.

[George Abraham]

Sounds like your client has something really specific in mind about something.

I'm going to take a long shot, perhaps he has character in mind and having a hard time getting his mental idea across.

It's possible that he has been inspired by something he saw somewhere, you could just communicate more and perhaps get an example of what the client has in mind or is trying to achieve, it sounds like it might just be communication.

Character should not be a problem for an artist, an artist that has at some point done caricatures or tried to replicate some cartoon style will know what I'm talking about, the thing is you need to know what to "latch on to" a certain feeling that shapes a particular style to be able to do original work using that other style.

Having a clear understanding what someone wants will save you time.

[alti]

hmmm you have to learn your limitations and be able to quote him more accurate times, but if you main goal is to keep that particular client then you might have to stick it out nomatter what the time, but if the dudes drip feeding you feedback then thats no way to work.

tell him he gets 1 sketch, + 1 refinement at half the cost of the sketch = more cash.

invoice for everything -bam, your in the money.

i'm a firm beleiver in booking hours from an artist, the hours that are booked must be paid, everyone will try to rip you off if you let them. there is no nice money.


if the dude refuses to pay, immediatly resort to violence.
-alti

[yinteck]

Thanks for all the information guys.

[Rist]

Yuck. I would have laid out the contract terms and kept to them. If he was nervous about my skills or whatever during the project I would demanded a change to the contract and payment. Don't let him screw you with the service you are giving him.

[J Wilson]

Luckily, I've never had a completely indecisive client. I have had a couple that didn't have the best communication, which meant I had to step up MY communication and ask more questions though.

Normally working in well planned stages helps with this. Get approval on a general direction based on rough sketches. Once those are approved there should be a fairly clear limitations on how drastic the changes can be. If they try to make radical changes after that point, you have the recourse of "You approved the prior direction. If you need to go in another direction that's fine, but I do need to charge you."

If that doesn't work, and things are bad enough tell him straight out, "We should have been able to agree on something by now. At some point we have to agree that we have a communication issue, or something is just not working. Let me refund your payments and you can find someone more suited to your needs."

[GriNGo]

I think that's kinda a harsh outcome J Wilson, refunding everything when he worked a lot in the project. I suggest, that if it comes to that, you should resort to the kill fee.

Check this article out: I know it's related more to graphic design, but i think you can get some nice knowledge from it, specially for the future:
http://www.gomediazine.com/industry-insights/a-designers-guide-to-pricing/

[J Wilson]

I think it may be tough to negotiate a kill fee after the fact. There is already a contract in place. If a project is really just wasting your time it may be worth it in the long run to just walk away. It's a last resort to be sure, but it sounds better to me than sitting there languishing knowing you are losing money when you could be getting paying jobs.

[GriNGo]

That's true.