The World's First Cyborg Rodent Created

[LORD M]

Boffins at the University of Reading have created a robot controlled by a biological “brain” consisting of rat neurons. They began by taking a culture of neurons specially separated from the rest of the fetal brain tissue. The neurons are placed across a platter of electrodes that simultaneously allow the brain to control parts of a robot and allow the robot to send signals back to the brain. In this way, the brain begins to operate the robot, moving it around and receiving feedback (electrical jolts) that tell it when it’s hit something.


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http://mendicantbug.com/2008/08/14/rat-cyborg/




I, for one, welcome our new rodent cyborg overlords.

[Hyskoa]

Fuck, that's awesome.

[Straight Edge Ryan]

What has science dooooonnnnne???!?!

[Justice Von Brandt]

poor rats

[TASmith]

pretty sick. He manuevers well, but so do all the regular robots designed to play table soccer. I'm still convinced a traditional robot could learn as well, given enough sensors and the right programing.

[algenpfleger]

Kevin Warwick is awesome. A pioneer, really. Can't wait to see where this is going.

[ArtZealot]

Makes me think of what rat-hell must be. A bit creepy...

[chriskot]

Awesome!

In other news, the world's first commercial spaceport (http://www.spaceportamerica.com/) just began construction, the world's most advanced robotic arm (http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/06/18/deka-luke-arm-gets-3-more-years-of-funding/) received three more years of funding, and DARPA is still doing all sorts of weird stuff with insects (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/06/pentagon-wants-cyborg-insects-to-sniff-wmd-offer-wi-fi/). Real life technology becomes more like science fiction every day. Exciting times.


pretty sick. He manuevers well, but so do all the regular robots designed to play table soccer. I'm still convinced a traditional robot could learn as well, given enough sensors and the right programing.
Potentially, but neural networks operate in a completely different way from conventional programming. The same sort of intelligence could be emulated if we had a complete understanding of the rat's brain and a sufficiently powerful computer, but it wouldn't exactly be efficient. Evolution doesn't make perfect systems though. Odds are that there is somehow an even more efficient way of learning how to move the robot around than even the rat can calculate, we just can't figure it out yet.

[kingshaj]

its a dalek!

[Bill]

Odds are that there is somehow an even more efficient way of learning how to move the robot around than even the rat can calculate, we just can't figure it out yet.


The fine folks at Roomba seem to have cracked it!

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...or maybe the cat knew something we didn't?

[Steph Laberis]

As much as I want to say "oh COOL!" because it is quite an achievement, being a doting rat owner I feel a pang of sadness over this. Especially seeing that the robot behaves differently when tissues are swapped; my little girls had very distinct personalities and while this cyborg probably isn't truly sentient, it makes me feel for the little guys who have to live out their "existence" inside that contraption. :/

In the end, aren't we all just a bundle of neurons?

[Troubadour]

game over man.

[petitemistress]

I find this immensely scary. I mean sure it might help a lot of people, potentially pave the way to making us (or our human conciousness) "immortal", but I see a lot more harm and sacrifice than gain when thinking about this technology. I mean, look at every other major scientific breakthrough and how man has managed to turn it around to do awful things, why should this be any different?

It's an impressive achievement, but I personally find it scary beyond measure.

[George Abraham]

Hehehehe!!

A+ for presentation.

[m@.]

I mean, look at every other major scientific breakthrough and how man has managed to turn it around to do awful things, why should this be any different?

O_O
so, what should we do? send all scientists home because technological progress is "scary"?

"That's it guys, thanks for the internet and cell phones, but that's all we needed. Now we can just entertain ourselves until the end of times"

[Brashen]

We're fucked.....

[Rist]

That is awesome. We are now God's of this world! MUUUAHHAHAUAHAHAHAA

[Ghostbrush]

this could be the start of The Matrix 0_0 I gonna start diggin to zion now, might make it before we black out the sun...

[Ghostbrush]

wait, hang on, is the rat brain "conscious"? Imagine being conscious as we all are now, self aware, but finding ur inside a robot o_o thats a head fuck right?

cant imagine a rat is that self aware tho, but I dun kno

I need to not think about this ha ha

[Sepulverture]

I LOVE having my web access arbitrarily interrupted and blocked... are there any alternative sites that have the same video that any of you know of? Can we post some pictures?

[Parka81]

Wow. All those cyborg anime movies are coming true!

[Liz Edwards]

That's pretty amazing. I don't really know what I'm talking about, but if its just a few harvested neurons and not an entire brain then I don't see how the cyber-rat could be aware of its strange robot self. It'll just be adapting to its situation as it sees fit because thats how brains work. Once they start scooping out whole brains of people and plonking them in robots, then I'll start worrying.

Unless its my brain. And they let me fight crime. That's cool.

[s.ketch]

I am not sure why you guys are so worried about the rat being conscious inside a mechanical body. Humans have an organic body and we still haven't completely come to terms with our existence. How is being inside a bucket of bolts any more damaging to the psyche than being in a bag of organs? Either way, sentience is quite complicated and heavy on the brain.

[Hookswords]

On a related and scarier note, they have been playing with rat brain cells and flight simulators for years. Like Project X, but in a petri dish.

[J Wilson]

How is being inside a bucket of bolts any more damaging to the psyche than being in a bag of organs?

Ask that question again when your brain tells you that you are hungry, but you have no mouth or stomach...

Then again, sounds like this isn't even a real brain in a robot, but a collection of neurons. As for the different "personalities" when they switched brains, well it might not be anything at all. Different magnetic waves on a tape make different sounds (recordings), but that doesn't mean each one has a personality. It could just be different neurons create different behavior.

[s.ketch]

But the reason my brain says I am hungry is that my stomach is empty. If I have no stomach, then there is no signal being sent to say so. Sure there is a certain "addiction" to the habit of eating that will take some adjustments in order to get over, but how is that any more damaging than going on a diet?

[NanoBlack]

My only comment on this thread?

CYBERNETIC AUGMENTATION!!!!!! BRING IT OOOOOOONNN!!!!!

[hippl5]

They should make a robot, give it an axe, and use a serial killer's brain instead of a rat's.

[Choob]

A bit creepy...

This creeps me out.

They're gonna want to try it on different things, eventually even a human brain.

It may be cool having cyborgs in movies, but this is just wrong. It's against nature and against god.

Learning robots = good.

Brain contolled robots = wrong.

[Jason Rainville]

Uh guys, a culture of fetal neurons does not a conscious brain make.

[TASmith]

yet. The main thing to keep in mind is that there's bound to be a scientist out there willing to do any experiment to get rich and/or famous. Next come dogs, then monkeys, and eventually human brain neurons. There are already doctors trying to clone people's dead children. Different countries have different laws regarding all this. Ethics will come in to play here.

[OmenSpirits]

robocop?

[HunterKiller_]

I'm one step closer to becoming immortal.
Excellent.

[Kagemusha22]

I find this immensely scary. I mean sure it might help a lot of people, potentially pave the way to making us (or our human conciousness) "immortal", but I see a lot more harm and sacrifice than gain when thinking about this technology. I mean, look at every other major scientific breakthrough and how man has managed to turn it around to do awful things, why should this be any different?

It's an impressive achievement, but I personally find it scary beyond measure.

Prometheus!

[Jazz]

I won't lie, that REALLY creeps me out...

Doesn't help that the music is so eerie. >_< But oh my gosh...*shudder*

[Troubadour]

O_O
so, what should we do? send all scientists home because technological progress is "scary"?

"That's it guys, thanks for the internet and cell phones, but that's all we needed. Now we can just entertain ourselves until the end of times"

I dont necessarily think petite is trying to crucify scientists but point out the fact that these kinds of breakthroughs have both good and bad scenarios that go with them.

kind of like "with great power comes great responsibility" /shrug.

also if you want to think of it as playing "god" Well if he lost control of us who are we to not lose control of what we create.

I'm not picking fights im just saying.

[VulgarDragon]

Both cool and creepy at the same time. Metaphysically speaking, brain is simply an organ that interfaces the soul...so if the soul is gone then it's just a mass of neutrons. If they plugged a machine into a human brain of someone who's been dead for a while, it probably is just a mass of cells that's being used. Unless....the person decides to come back to a functioning brain in a machine suit. Scary. Yeah, I agree with Troubadour, some lines shouldn't be crossed.

[hippl5]

Both cool and creepy at the same time. Metaphysically speaking, brain is simply an organ that interfaces the soul...so if the soul is gone then it's just a mass of neutrons. If they plugged a machine into a human brain of someone who's been dead for a while, it probably is just a mass of cells that's being used. Unless....well, never mind, this discussion is over my head, anyway.

There's no such thing as a soul...

Also, the people saying how this is all "morally wrong, against nature, cyborgs = bad". what are you basing this on? Nobody is building a cyborg army... at least not yet. If this doesn't get explored, then nobody will ever know. I'd rather see how far these cyborg experiments can go instead of sitting in the dark with nothing at all.

[VulgarDragon]

There's no such thing as a soul...

How sad.

[LORD M]

How sad.

And you know we have one for sure? How sad.

We can only assume we have a soul because there's currently no proof of us or any animal having one. Oh, btw we are just masses of cells.

Only. Assume.

[Jacob Kobryn]

And Next week's IDW is...

[LORD M]

And Next week's IDW is...

That would be awesome. I would so do it.

[Troubadour]

Please dont see me as taking a religious side to this, because i am in now way affiliated with religion in any way :P

i only state if you see this as being "totally awesome dude" and also stating "We are GOD now..." <.<....not to point fingers :) then rethink what that means.

I'm all for not being in the dark but this kind of thing can always have a negative affect on the world even if there is a positive side. I mean look at the internet...and how we got 4chan....but we also got conceptart.org :P

I'm just weary is all :P

EDIT:
i guess i dont get my point across that im neutral on the subject :|

[Derek the Usurper]

This technology could eventually be used in prosthetics to give amputees movable limbs controlled by their brains. Before you pass judgment and condemn this research, ask yourself how badly you would miss drawing if you lost a hand.

[gjpetch]

I mean, look at every other major scientific breakthrough and how man has managed to turn it around to do awful things,
May I ask what awful things have been done with scientific breakthroughs like penicillin? Sanitation? Pasteurization? Telescopes? Quantum theory? Refrigeration? Troll Dolls?
I think this is creepy, but on a rational level its not frightening to me. This (http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/pw_singer_on_robots_of_war.html) however scares the shit out of me. I'm frightened by people hurting or killing each other. I have the feeling we will never get over our propensity for cruelty unless we seriously modify our brains using technology.

[Bronke]

Uh guys, a culture of fetal neurons does not a conscious brain make.

Exactly. Don't worry people, there's no poor little rat conscious trapped inside a robot body.

[chriskot]

Uh guys, a culture of fetal neurons does not a conscious brain make.

Bingo. For everyone concerned about the potential consciousness of this thing, note that its only being called a 'brain' for lack of a simple alternative. Its a cluster of neurons extracted from a few fetal rats and multiplied in a petrie dish. It doesn't have a distinct brain stem, hippocampus, or any of the other fancy localized areas that proper brains have to carry out specific functions or interpret emotions. Calling it a brain is much like referring to a lopsided blob of glass as a telescopic lens. Under the right conditions they can do similar things, but the latter is much more precise and complicated.

I'm not entirely sure, but I'd be willing to bet that the different "personalities" of the different "brains" result from different connections forming between the neurons in the different cloning dishes, since I don't think that's something that the scientists can accurately control.

This does raise an interesting question though: If we do actually create a conscious computer someday, do you think we will ever be able to tell?

[petitemistress]

O_O
so, what should we do? send all scientists home because technological progress is "scary"?

"That's it guys, thanks for the internet and cell phones, but that's all we needed. Now we can just entertain ourselves until the end of times"

I don't appreciate your fucking sarcasm. I'd probably listen to what you had to say more if you weren't being a prick about it.

As if we ever needed cellphones and all that shit anyways. I have nothing against scientific progress to help mankind, but if you read the article linked, its said this is most probably gonna go into weapon making. and yes, I dont see the point of some of our advances, not all progress is good progress. We're all forgetting how to be human and spiraling back into animals who need to do nothing but sit and their chair and have all their primary needs fulfilled by machines. but hey, that's just my opinion. You don't have to insult my intelligence because you don't agree.

[petitemistress]

May I ask what awful things have been done with scientific breakthroughs like penicillin? Sanitation? Pasteurization? Telescopes? Quantum theory? Refrigeration? Troll Dolls?
I think this is creepy, but on a rational level its not frightening to me. This (http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/pw_singer_on_robots_of_war.html) however scares the shit out of me. I'm frightened by people hurting or killing each other. I have the feeling we will never get over our propensity for cruelty unless we seriously modify our brains using technology.

I see how my comment could be misconstrued, but really, my second choice of major was genetic engineering and I'm all for progress. All I'm saying is while scientists might not have evil intent, people will often twist their achievements into some perverse bs we all could have lived without. For example dynamite, which Nobel intended to help blow up mountains to make tunnels, and we all see where that went... to redeem himself he made the nobel prizes. (or so the story goes) Another technical advance was harnessing atomic power, which led to the H Bomb, atomic bomb. Robots who were supposed to relieve man from menial tasks are being used as warfare tools. Cellphone technology as detonators. etc... I'm not attacking scientists, we'd all be dead by now had we not used our intelligence, science is amazing. It's just that to me, some things (like immortality) are better left alone. Man is not responsible enough to handle this yet! I mean look at the world! For those who think im a religious nut, I'm agnostic tyvm. I'm looking at the human side of this. now I'm just rambling... think I've made my point.

[Choob]

There's no such thing as a soul...

I completely disagree with that statement.

And petite, calm down.

We have over 150, 000 members, chances are, some of them will be pricks.

No offence to you m@. ;)

I'm just trying to calm her down.

0.0

[petitemistress]

sorry... ^^; I will calm down now, I just didnt want words put into my mouth and the interwebz-tone of the reply really got on my nerves... I apologize.

[VulgarDragon]

We have over 150, 000 members, chances are, some of them will be pricks.


Having a thick skin is a must to be a CA member :)

[gjpetch]

All I'm saying is while scientists might not have evil intent, people will often twist their achievements into some perverse bs we all could have lived without.
Point taken. The optimist in me hopes that implanting chips in our brains will lead to a more compassionate and ethical society, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part.
Excuse me linking to another TED video, this (http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html) one describes how violence had decreased over the course of history, which is perhaps a reason to be optimistic about science and technology?
And I don't think m@ meant any harm with his comment. I'd say he was being more of a "playful imp" than a "prick".

[m@.]

And I don't think m@ meant any harm with his comment. I'd say he was being more of a "playful imp" than a "prick".

Hahaha :D
Cool to see you here Greg :)

[wesburt]

m@, you french asshole! :asspat:

[m@.]

petitemistress : maybe if people werent so scared of each other, of change and of knowledge, military funding wouldnt be the major drive of technological progress (which is nothing new) . And trust me, I'd rather have them use those researches for bettering our understanding of neurology and consciousness across the animal kingdom (which would lead to a more empathic attitude towards animals, especially mammals), than to make "cool" cyborg killers.

Sorry if I came off as offensive, (Im glad I toned it down compared to what I initially planned to write hehe), but I can't stand obscurantist attitudes. I might have misinterpreted your post though (and put you in a stereotype, which I agree was wrong), but I think you took it a bit too personally.
Peace :)

wes : :(

[Mock]

It's against nature and against god.


Not really a valid argument for... well, anything. Saying it's against nature is completely dependent of the definition of nature. Since we started, it has been human nature to further our intelligence, understanding, and mastery of the world around us. We're an inquisitive species. It started with the wheel, and who knows where the hell it will end. Will we kill ourselves off with all of the shit we've created? Probably. Considering the massive amount of damage we've done to this planet, is that against nature?

As for being against God, there's a long list of reasons why that isn't a great argument. However, I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Bible that says we can't use neurons to control robots anyways, so there's no need to go into that.

As if we ever needed cellphones and all that shit anyways. I have nothing against scientific progress to help mankind, but if you read the article linked, its said this is most probably gonna go into weapon making. and yes, I dont see the point of some of our advances, not all progress is good progress. We're all forgetting how to be human and spiraling back into animals who need to do nothing but sit and their chair and have all their primary needs fulfilled by machines. but hey, that's just my opinion. You don't have to insult my intelligence because you don't agree.

We donn't "need" cars, planes, computers, or video games to survive either. However, because of those inventions we are able to see places we never would have been able to walk to and pursue careers that would not even exist. Because of luxuries that fulfill our needs, we have time to pursue our wants. Yes, there is the question of how much is too much, but we still have the choice. Just because a machine is invented that will wipe my ass for me doesn't mean I have to use it.

The only part that said anything about it becoming a tool of weaponry is the bloggers comments. Considering the next post concerns his dog catching a frisbee and the one after that talks about how his dog is "a dog apart" at the dog park, I'm going to go ahead and not award his opinion any scientific merit. This part "The recent round of research that aims to make animals into cyborgs (and often for military purposes)" states "military purposes", but it's likely referring to the insect thing posted earlier in this thread. They created bees to sniff out land mines. Using insects to detect weaponry. They're not genetically engineering a swarm of Super Cyborg Locusts to descend upon North Korea like the plague upon Egypt.

Is there the potential for this to be used in weapons? Of course there is. Almost anything can be turned into a weapon of some sort. The GPS that tells me where the closest Starbucks is can also guide a missile into an orphanage in Uganda. That doesn't mean that I wish my TomTom were never invented. We don't need to halt our technological progress, we need to reevaluate our ethics when it comes to applying technology.

He wasn't insulting your intelligence. He was pointing out the flaw in your argument. You don't need to flip out and get pissed off because you don't agree.

[petitemistress]

petitemistress : maybe if people werent so scared of each other, of change and of knowledge, military funding wouldnt be the major drive of technological progress (which is nothing new) . And trust me, I'd rather have them use those researches for bettering our understanding of neurology and consciousness across the animal kingdom (which would lead to a more empathic attitude towards animals, especially mammals), than to make "cool" cyborg killers.

Sorry if I came off as offensive, (Im glad I toned it down compared to what I initially planned to write hehe), but I can't stand obscurantist attitudes. I might have misinterpreted your post though (and put you in a stereotype, which I agree was wrong), but I think you took it a bit too personally.
Peace :)


peace, didn't mean to come off as an "obscurantist" myself. :) I read way too much into your post and im sure you didn't mean personally. sorry for flying off the handle.

Mock - there are other ways to point out "flaws in arguments" like explaining and backing it up with logical arguments as you did. Using sarcasm when someone is trying to show their point of view will never get you a positive response or spark a decent discussion.