Disturbing Iranian Twitter

[JackHatesJack]

Holy shit. (http://twitter.com/persiankiwi)

And another. (http://twitter.com/Ghattavi)

[Sorknes]

Yeah, it's been crazy there from election started, SMS's didn't work, etc, then things started to happen around the election places with (not sure if confirmed) reports about people not getting in and not being able to vote, and then internet places got unavailable... Mobile phones and internet being the main communication system for the opposition. Then BBC Persia, CNN etc disappeared from peoples TV's.

Then Mahmoud Ahmadinejad claims he won the election, even with 57% votes in Mousavis hometown... and whatnot. And it's been going downhill from there.

Been following it a bit today. Even journalists are having a tough time, a Norwegian one was towed in together with protesters but let go again. There's some crazy reports, most not verified. But there seems to be one or two confirmed about wounded.

[Dethklaus]

Jesus, I can't imagine the level of fear and desperation over there.
I sure doesn't help that North Korea is already making threats of nuclear war. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090614/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_nuclear)

[Elwell]

Nico Pitney (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_n_215189.html) at HuffPo is doing a good job staying on top of things, as is Andrew Sullivan (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/).
After an absolutely disgraceful showing yesterday, CNN seems to be stepping up.
What the hell the EU is thinking is beyond me.

[Sorknes]

Seems that people keep forgetting that Iran was a very modern "westernized" country before the revolution in '78 - '79 as well. I've read some pretty ignorant shit today about the country and situation.

[Elwell]

Seems that people keep forgetting that Iran was a very modern "westernized" country before the revolution in '78 - '79 as well. I've read some pretty ignorant shit today about the country and situation.
I hope that, even if the worst happens and the uprising is put down, the coverage of the heroism of the Iranian people will at least change some attitudes over here.

[smugbug]

Seems that people keep forgetting that Iran was a very modern "westernized" country before the revolution in '78 - '79 as well. I've read some pretty ignorant shit today about the country and situation.

Plus, close to 70% of the population of Iran is under the age of 30. Much more westernized than what a lot of people realize.

Truly horrendous situation right now and my heart goes out to the people of Iran. Some dKos links with a LOT of info:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/14/742328/-Updated:-Cont:-Farsi-Sources-Latest-News-About-Iran-Coup

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/14/742253/-Early-Report-Day-Two:-The-Massacre-has-started,-Protestors-shot,-the-University-Invaded.

698018

[XanaChama]

If this is all true, my hearts go out to them. When the media was making a big deal about all this, I was thinking, oh just the American media blowing things out of proportion for ratings again. But if this is true... I feel really bad for what is happening, and I can't imagine their people would not try to aspire to peace, who would ask for more violence in this situation? Except maybe to be free from tyranny... where's the best place to get news about what's going on in that country besides national media?

[smugbug]

If this is all true, my hearts go out to them. When the media was making a big deal about all this, I was thinking, oh just the American media blowing things out of proportion for ratings again. But if this is true... I feel really bad for what is happening, and I can't imagine their people would not try to aspire to peace, who would ask for more violence in this situation? Except maybe to be free from tyranny... where's the best place to get news about what's going on in that country besides national media?

The thing is, the media HASN'T been making even a peep about this just until TODAY.

I was following (in horror) several bloggers and some international news sites yesterday. However, our US media was practically silent. After Friday's excitement about Iran's election and then Saturday's news and how everything has escalated rapidly today. Mind boggling.

[Sorknes]

Ahmadinejad has gotten less and less popular, and Mousavi with wife (artist and all) has gotten more and more popular.

For some reason people think Ahmadinejad has been speaking for the whole of the Iranian people when he's been throwing things left and right, and he's not. When he started to throw lies about his opponents pre-election, the interest was caught here.

One of them being that one Mousavi's wife's doctorate was not real, which she promptly threw back in his face showing the papers, etc. Mousavi's wife being a huge part of the whole thing, she's a free spoken female artist and has kept several big election rallies without her husband around.

[Sorknes]

I just realised that "doctorate" was prolly the wrong word here...

Here's the wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahra_Rahnavard) on her, if anyone wants to read it...

Zahra Rahnavard (Persian: زهرا رهنورد, b. 1945) is an Iranian artist and political scientist who served as the chancellor of Alzahra University in Tehran, Iran, from 1998 to 2006, and as a Political Adviser to the former Iranian President Mohammad Khatami.[1][2]

Zahra Rahnavard earned her bachelor and master's degrees in Art from University of Tehran. She has also got master's and PhD degrees from Islamic Azad University in Political science.

Rahnavard was the first Iranian woman appointed as a chancellor of a university since the Iranian Revolution of 1979. She was nominated to this post by former Minister of Science, Research and Technology, Mostafa Moin.

After the election of president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in 2005 and the purging of reformist officials from the government, Rahnavard was removed or resigned from her position as the chancellor of Al-zahra University in 2006, replaced by Dr. Mahboubeh Mobasheri.

Author of 15 books, Rahnavard is also known as a writer in Iran. She is the wife of Iranian ex-prime minister Mir-Hossein Mousavi (the last Prime Minister of Iran) and has three daughters. Since Mousavis entry into the 2009 presidential race she has actively participated in his campaign.

[Dethklaus]

I hope that, even if the worst happens and the uprising is put down, the coverage of the heroism of the Iranian people will at least change some attitudes over here.

Seeing all of this unfold has certainly changed mine.

[XanaChama]

The thing is, the media HASN'T been making even a peep about this just until TODAY.

I was following (in horror) several bloggers and some international news sites yesterday. However, our US media was practically silent. After Friday's excitement about Iran's election and then Saturday's news and how everything has escalated rapidly today. Mind boggling.

Actually the stuff I heard was pre-election coverage. It was Fox news, so it made me even more weary. It's not like anyone in America wants Ahmadinejad re-elected.

[Jason Rainville]

It's not like anyone in America wants Ahmadinejad re-elected.

You'd be wrong;

x2UzEZ3oTMQ

[DeadlyFreeze]

So I'll ask the relevant question, how is the electoral system run? Who does the actual counting?

[kev ferrara]

I think most of the people that matter understand that Iranian are great people ruled by terrible people.

The goal of the revolution was to establish a caliphate in Tehran. It was a violent coup. I hardly think fair elections, let alone IAEA inspections, fall high on their priority list.

On EU fecklessness...

EU over a barrel about Iran. Russia and Iran are an energy cartel. EU is dependent on Russian-Iran Oil and Gas (Persian Pipeline in works to supply EU directly from Iran). Thus they have no leverage to ensure proper voting in Iran.

From Washington Post, two years ago:

The E.U., which is heavily dependent on Russian natural gas and oil, has almost no short-term alternatives for energy. Russia supplies about 25 percent of the union's oil and 40 percent of its natural gas.

From Guardian, last year:

Western concerns about global energy markets hit new heights last night when Russia, Iran and Qatar said they were forming an Opec-style gas cartel.

The move by the three countries, which control 60% of the world's gas reserves, was met with immediate opposition from the European commission, which fears the group could drive up prices.

The EU's desperation for energy explains the EU's illicit oil deals with Iraq prior to our invasion. And Iran's interest in keeping Iraq unstable is also a method of keeping Iraq oil from freeing the EU from Iran and Russia's energy resources.

Expect no help from the EU. And what does it matter anyhow, if both candidates are pretty much the same. Why should the EU risk its energy supply over two bad choices.

The only way out in the long run, it seems to me, is what has already been going on, which is under-the-radar attempts to foment and arm a counter-revolution within Iran. (From what I hear, which could be BS for all I know.)

EDIT: Sarkozy deserves much credit for having principles. It might very well be that the U.S. is also slow to act because of our dependence on Iranian oil.

kev

[Sorknes]

So I'll ask the relevant question, how is the electoral system run? Who does the actual counting?

Well, this election part was with several running candidates. Four to count with, really, but only two really big ones. Unless anyone got over 50% votes right away, there would've been a second round between the two candidates getting the most votes.

It was thought that it would either be a second round or Mousavi would get about 50% from what I've read, maybe more too.

The counting and what's been happening in the election places is in such a mumblejumble lost in the not verified and confirmed reports, so I have no idea what's really been going on there, but it's a mess, appearantly. Which explains what's going on now.

[XanaChama]

'You'd be wrong;

x2UzEZ3oTMQ

LOL You're right, that is so predictable. There are people who prefer "blatancy" just so we can have sufficient grounds to go to war. Sounds just like George Bush.

[Elam]

Seems that people keep forgetting that Iran was a very modern "westernized" country before the revolution in '78 - '79 as well

Glad you've got that westernized bit in quotes. Iran is in no way westernized in the European sense of the word. If you've read anything Mousavi has said, he doesn't sound a whole lot different than Ahmadinejad.

You'd be wrong;
You'd be simple.

Those dreaded necons recognize what you don't, probably because they've been paying attention to Iran for decades, not the last 24 hours.

[Jason Rainville]

Elam and Kev in the same thread. I am fucking the fuck out of here right now.

[Sorknes]

Seems that people keep forgetting that Iran was a very modern "westernized" country before the revolution in '78 - '79 as well. I've read some pretty ignorant shit today about the country and situation.

Glad you've got that westernized bit in quotes. Iran is in no way westernized in the European sense of the word. If you've read anything Mousavi has said, he doesn't sound a whole lot different than Ahmadinejad.

You don't read very well, do you?

[kev ferrara]

Jason, why did you post this ranting imbecile? He is utterly clueless about the logic underlying what's going on. Iran wants a nuke no matter who gets in power. Theocrats with nukes = BAD. If the new guy wins, the world at large, which is generally utterly ignorant of anything will think, "Ah, Bad Guy out of power. Now we don't have to worry about Iran getting a nuke." And this will lessen the political pressure on Iran to stop their nuke program. Pipes was making a point about how geopolitics works.

This is really not hard to understand. Unless of course the word "neocon" causes your cerebral cortex to shut down, Pavlov style.

EDIT: Jason, your last post was insulting and cheap. As King Arthur said when confronted with a deadly flying bunny, "Run Awayyyyy!"

[Elam]

Elam and Kev in the same thread. I am fucking the fuck out of here right now.
Is your tail firmly between your legs?

[Jason Rainville]

Jason, why did you post this ranting imbecile? He is utterly clueless about the logic underlying what's going on. Iran wants a nuke no matter who gets in power. Theocrats with nukes = BAD. If the new guy wins, the world at large, which is generally utterly ignorant of anything will think, "Ah, Bad Guy out of power. Now we don't have to worry about Iran getting a nuke." And this will lessen the political pressure on Iran to stop their nuke program. Pipes was making a point about how geopolitics works.

This is really not hard to understand.

Double edged sword: If the "good" guy wins, it's a possibility that what you say is valid, that we'll shrink to simple thoughts like "oh we can like Iran now." but if the "bad" guy wins, then chances are the simple thoughts many think already (Iran is bad, those brown people are getting nukes we should nuke 'em) will continue to flourish.

The reason I posted the "imbecile" is that the core of his message is sound: war is the absolute last option, and to support an avenue that would seem to lead to it would be insane.

Is your tail firmly between your legs?

Hey, two appeals to ridicule does not make a right... or something like that.

Jason, your last post was insulting and cheap. As King Arthur said when confronted with a deadly flying bunny, "Run Awayyyyy!"

Not intended to be. Come on, you can't deny that you and Elam have a reputation for long, drawn out debates. I was trying to save myself some time, not call you both assholes.

[s.ketch]

"If you don't argue with me, you are a coward!"

lol you guys.

[Elam]

You don't read very well, do you?
I read fine. I went back and read your post again. What exactly are you trying to say?

And! While your gushing over Mousavi's wife's Wikipedia entry, you may want to read her husband's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir-Hossein_Mousavi). Don't skip the part about him being complicit in the execution of thousands of political prisoners during the 80's, which makes his whole power to the people bit sound a bit dishonest.
Mousavi's socialist ideology became very apparent during the 1980s when he initiated Islamic Socialist policies such as subsidized food coupons, oil coupons and converting private enterprises into government controlled entities. Mr. Mousavi ordered the mass-executions of 1980-81, as well as the summer 1988 executions of over 30,000 political prisoners, who were then buried in mass graves.

[Sorknes]

I read fine. I went back and read your post again. What exactly are you trying to say?

And! While your gushing over Mousavi's wife's Wikipedia entry, you may want to read her husband's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir-Hossein_Mousavi). Don't skip the part about him being complicit in the execution of thousands of political prisoners during the 80's, which makes his whole power to the people bit sound a bit dishonest.

I am not sure how to make that one sentence in the beginning there any more clearer than it is, so I'll let you just wonder about that, I guess.

Where did you find me gushing about his wife? I was putting the wiki entry there for explanation about the stuff going on before the election.

We're discussing what's happening in Iran and what's going on, not taking turns telling each other that either Mousavi or Ahmadinejad is the saviour of the world. What's your point?

[kev ferrara]

the core of his message is sound: war is the absolute last option, and to support an avenue that would seem to lead to it would be insane.

Genocide spouting Theocrats with Nukes is insane. Nobody wants to go to war. The neocons, despite what the partisan hacks on MSNBC keep harping on, do not want war. This is a cartoon version of the actual thought going on. But MSNBC sells political cartoons because they are easily understood by populist thinkers. Populists do not compute subtlety.

The point is, with Ahmadinejad still in there, the world remains vigilant about Iran's nuclear and genocidal ambitions. Which is a good thing for the safety of the world. That's all Pipes was saying. The world is constantly wishing upon a star, so that it might go back to sleep, to dream of Fukiyama's The End of History, which doesn't say what they think it says.

Anyhow. I'll depart too. No use arguing about this.

kev

EDIT: I woke up this morning and realized I had written huntington instead of fukiyama. Never post when sleepy.

[Elam]

Huntington's The End of History
Not to be tedious, but that was Fukuyama. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_End_of_History_and_the_Last_Man) Huntington is The Clash of Civilizations. (http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/48950/samuel-p-huntington/the-clash-of-civilizations)

And as for books, I've got the The Persian Night (http://www.amazon.com/Persian-Night-under-Khomeinist-Revolution/dp/1594032408/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) sitting on my bookshelf. Fascinating book about Iran.

[Katfayheirti]

This thread made me get a Twitter account. I'm tired of being in the dark.

[TASmith]

"Genocide spouting Theocrats with Nukes is insane."

I wonder to what extent this is true. Somehow I can't wrap my head around a wealthy cleric in a fancy dwelling of whatever kind, surrounded by luxury, and in complete control of a country, somehow fecklessly giving it all up, blowing his country and lifestyle to hell, based purely on hate. When one of these guys starts talking about genocide or death to America, it just sounds like cheap talk to me. Case in point, when Ahmadinijad was questioned about it in Time magazine, he just answered, "When we in Iran say Death to America, we mean that we want an end to violence."

I just about shit myself laughing at that.

[DeadlyFreeze]

This thread made me get a Twitter account. I'm tired of being in the dark.

disappointment ahoy!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brashen]

disappointment ahoy!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously!!!

Anybody wants popcorn?? This thread is ready to explode...

[camus]

we are all so mad to live in a world where this kind of thing just happens

[Slash]

Theoc (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/United_States_one_dollar_bill,_reverse.jpg/800px-United_States_one_dollar_bill,_reverse.jpg)racy with nukes.. oh man, this is a temping thread to get into!


But then again, no. Not really tempting at all. I have a new intuos to frolic around in the fields with!

[Baron Impossible]

Not sure that Twitter is a reliable source of anything, to be honest. There's very little in the news here, just mid-broadcast stories speculating on how AfterDinnerJacket could fix so many votes.

[George Abraham]

Sorry to break it to ya but there's real racism in this thread. Can you spot it?

[Ilaekae]

I haven't seen any obvious racism yet, but I am sort of obtuse. What i have seen is the usual pick/change/restructuring of other poster's comments to make some personal agenda points by the usual assholes.

Get off your fuckin' narrow-minded politically-motivated high horses, people, and deal with/react to the original post instead of turning this into another bash thread.

[Peter Coene]

I hope that, even if the worst happens and the uprising is put down, the coverage of the heroism of the Iranian people will at least change some attitudes over here.

Are you kidding? I love the Persians! In my experience theirs is one of the most hospitable and wonderful cultures that I've ever come across. I just don't like their government. (I've heard some scary 1st hand stories about that shit.)

[ArtZealot]

My question is why didn't we do this when the bush election was rigged?

[George Abraham]

CrElT8XxptU

[wiggum]

This kind of reminds me of that thing that happened in Venezuala a few years back when Hugo Chavez cut off a bunch of networks and did some other shit that got a minor uprising started. For a while it looked like some serious shit was going down, and then all of a sudden I didn't hear anything else about it.

Granted I'm way more concerned with the auto industry than foreign revolutions so I wasn't paying very close attention, but it still surprised me how I just stopped hearing anything about it on the news after a while. What the hell happened with that anyways?

[Elam]

I know there's thousands of photos out there, but the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html) has a really good compendium, with gorgeous Iranian women to boot.

http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/iranelect_06_15/i18_19370691.jpg

What the hell happened with that anyways?
The same thing that's happening in Iran. Thugs with guns and the willingness to use them usually win. Chavez has lots of support as well, particularly among the poor. Same with Amenijad(sp?)

[squidmonk3j]

I know there's thousands of photos out there, but the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html) has a really good compendium, with gorgeous Iranian women to boot.

This turns you on?

[Cthogua]

My question is why didn't we do this when the bush election was rigged?

Comfort. We were too sedated by the comfort of our lifestyle to want to jeopardize that by reacting so extremely. Almost 8 years after that, with a much larger group of people pissed about where the country has gone in that time, and you see what happened during the '08 RNC. Protest groups meet up houses, and convergence spots were raided by police in the days leading up to the convention. The police started making "preemptive detainments", basically intimidating protest groups with showy raids where they forced everyone to lie on the ground for hours with their hands in zip ties, but then arresting no one as there was ultimately no cause to. Then during the actual Convention people who were outside of the designated "protest zones" miles from the actual convention were rounded up and arrested en mass, and those who resisted charged with rioting. Even journalists with proper credentials were arrested simply for being there. At one point I believe Minneapolis/St. Police actually attempted to arrest an entire crowd enjoying a free musical performance in a nearby park. Of course all that ended up getting distilled into "Some anarchists caused trouble, setting fires, slashing tires, and smashing windows." Followed by a dismissive shake of the head from the newscaster and some comment like "Some people just don't know how to keep things civil."

[Elam]

This turns you on?

beautiful women? sure. beautiful women being beaten? no.

I subscribe to the protest babe theory (http://wizbangblog.com/content/2005/03/15/the-babe-theory.php), myself.

[squidmonk3j]

beautiful women? sure. beautiful women being beaten? no.

I subscribe to the protest babe theory (http://wizbangblog.com/content/2005/03/15/the-babe-theory.php), myself.

I can't figure out if you're failing at being funny or failing at being human.

[Brashen]

I laughed....well cause I'm from Lebanon and was in most of the demonstrations...and the women were much more vocal then the men..and since all Lebanese women are hot by nature, well....

[Elam]

I can't figure out if you're failing at being funny or failing at being human.

I suspect you can't figure out a lot of things, but I digress.

since all Lebanese women are hot by nature
I 100% agree. I live in Dearborn, MI, which has a large Lebanese population and damn, those women are simply amazing.

[Slash]

I second the lebanese women fandom!

[J Wilson]

Wow, those photos were pretty intense. I think my "favorites" (as in the ones I found had the most impact for me) were the ones of the protesters stopping to aid an injured policeman. Two sides in opposition, but a few sane and brave people had it together enough to stop and help someone injured from the other side.

[Brashen]

Haha yes were every where!! I think Michigan is our central point of invasion..But I got some cousins don in Pasadena Cali.

Anyways those photos are pretty intense. And your right Hot women.

[Peter Coene]

Hey, what a coincidence, all this stuff going on in Iran and we've got all our troops sitting right next door in a country we don't want to be in any more...

[Slash]

Haha yes were every where!!


I thought you were a dude. :P

[VulgarDragon]

...since all Lebanese women are hot by nature, well....

Like this one?

http://bloggingexperiment.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/mash-klinger.jpg

[Brashen]

I thought you were a dude. :P

We shift sexes accordingly :)

[Straight Edge Ryan]

Terrorism 2k: "GodDAMNIT isn't anyone reading my 'death to America' tweets?!"

[smugbug]

If you are on Twitter: there is a way; albeit small, but a way in which you CAN help.

Keep in mind, Twitter is being used heavily by Iranians and Iran censors are using Twitter to find dissidents.

What you can do? From this site: (http://emsenn.com/iran.php)


So you want to help Iran, but you're not actually in Iran? here's what you can do to help (Focused on twitter, since that's where the infowar is occurring.

Change your location and time zone on Twitter to Tehran, Iran (that's GMT+3:30

Change your profile icon to green in some way.

Set up a proxy. and send a DM to @ProtesterHelp. On Windows, do this and on Linux do this. On Mac, do this (NOTE: These will be reposted here soon to save bandwidth)

DO NOT retweet posts verbatim from Iran. This puts the users at risk. The Iranian Minstry of the Interior is watching Twitter closely now. Don't use names and reword the post.

Submit e-mails to CNN, MSNBC, Fox and other news sources about the Iranian Revolution- demand more coverage

DO NOT DDOS (PageReload) Iranian government websites. It slows all Iranian traffic, doing more harm than good in this information war.


Go to the site for the links contained in the above quote.

[wiggum]

I 100% agree. I live in Dearborn, MI, which has a large Lebanese population and damn, those women are simply amazing.

I'm originally from the Detroit, but when I started Doing product development for Ford I found that there are a Ton of hot middle eastern chicks working here. There are even a set of twins from dubai...awesome.

I like how she's sporting to Converse in that picture as well.

[Jasonwclark]

Pepe gives a pretty straightforward breakdown about what's going on right now

RCF3d-8AAtU


Part 2 at Real News (http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=74&jumival=2&gclid=CPTW-pSzkZsCFQ3xDAod5y-mog)

[George Abraham]

Looking at all the fuss in the world at the moment I noticed, whoever this poet was really knew about comotion.

Hush, hush my baby
On the tree top
When the wind blows
The cradle will rock

If the bow breaks
The cradle will fall
Down comes my baby
Cradle and all

It doesn't make sense that the baby hushing would somehow help the situation, so it must be comotion.

[Chingwa]

This is certainly interesting (and applicable):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/17/obama-iran-twitter

does anyone else smell a psych-out with all this twitter stuff?

[Chingwa]

This is interesting as well...
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/proof-israeli-effort-to-destabilize-iran-via-twitter/

Not saying anything concrete, but this whole internet media blitz does seem rather suspect...

[Arshes Nei]

zoarr do you post because you enjoy the clacking of the keys of your own keyboard? Sometimes I wonder...

[kev ferrara]

This is interesting as well...
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/proof-israeli-effort-to-destabilize-iran-via-twitter/

Not saying anything concrete, but this whole internet media blitz does seem rather suspect...

Your suspicious mind and hateful agenda is what is suspect...

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1245184858248&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

-----------
Edit: The constant effort to raise suspicion about Israel is always afoot. Rumors, fauxtography, innuendo, one-sided reports of violence, exaggerated reports, etc... In the end this propaganda will prolong the Israel-Palestine conflict, causing needless deaths. And it might even embolden some lunatic to mass murder the people of Israel, seeing as so many westerners seem to think this would be "justice." Nevermind the other side of the equation: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/09/opinion/09aciman.html?_r=1

[Slash]

Does being suspicious to what you hear and read automatically equals having a hateful agenda?
If that's the case i must be pretty damn hateful.

Why do you immediately attack someone who asks questions and accuse them of having a hateful agenda? An information blackout would be the first sign that there's something fishy going on, and its wise to ask questions about the information that is actually getting through. In a world of propaganda warfare it is important, maybe even essential to question everything you hear and read.

//edit: Jerusalem post debunking claims about jerusalem post? OMG HOLD THE PRESS! :P

[George Abraham]

Just say, no thank you. You can keep it.

Inspiration's a funny thing. I have an old clicker keyboard, It's the shit.

But I must admit there are more constructive things to do. Mebe I rig my table so it makes sounds.

[edit]
http://geeksofdoom.com/GoD/img/2009/03/2009-03-15-pennywise.jpg

[petitemistress]

mindlessly accepting whatever information is fed to you without question is what i find adhering to a "hateful agenda", Kev. The man raised a different point of view to yours, he didnt ask you to follow it. He showed what he believes is the flip of the situation. Least you could do is accept that other people have a different opinion without jumping at their throat.

what, brains? who uses that? let's just accept everything we're told and not question anything. ever.

PS: im not say the link is right. I'm saying everyone is entitled to their own opinion without having to be accused of "hateful agendas" the moment they voice it. wth.

[Elam]

Not saying anything concrete, but this whole internet media blitz does seem rather suspect...
How so?

Seems to me that the internet, particularly Twitter seems perfectly suitable for this type of thing. And Iran, despite it's ass backward government, has a large number of educated, plugged in folks.

What's suspect?

[Slash]

Seriously? There's an information blackout, sources are anonymous, and there's no way of verifying claims other than cross-referencing tweets. Anyone could be a source of info in this mess. Especially when hiding in a crowd of educated, plugged in folks. Anyone could use this to further their agenda. And you're asking what's suspect?

Not trying to piss on any efforts to get the truth out, i'd hate to come across like that. I'm very grateful and respectful for the attempts to enlighten the outside world on the situation. But that doesn't mean I'll believe everything I'm told just because it seems to come from a credible source.

[Elam]

Well, I was asking Chingwa. He's implying the whole process is suspect, not just the information being received.

Of course the individual tweets are suspect. Which is why I follow the Lede. (http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/)

[George Abraham]

It's expected, the media has moved to broader horizons than just the TV set. It's easy to skillfully go unnoticed as media influence on the TV, advertising and manipulated news broadcasts, it's still about who can afford the best media, the net makes them kind obvious in their attempts. I am just surprised that no one notice this and people are so programmed to be blind to it but eh, it's a mad house. Pollitics are quite a stage performance these day's, it's more like celebrity death match. They usually end up finding a happy illusion but it works in some cases. It's just that people are so wild. In most cases people know far ahead who's going where,.. So usually time is spent on crafting stunts and image to eventually get everyone in line. We are a tough croud.

http://www.saynotocrack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bull.jpg

[Dougbot]

Chingwa, you and I have agreed on a lot of things, but I have a hard time believing a site that includes the headlines:

Project 2012 Intro: Predictions Coming True? Nuclear War Begins Soon?
1287 days left for Age of Transition to begin! Get ready for the worst!

Must Read: The Illuminati War on Humankind

The world rejoices USrael’s end is imminent

I think the worst part of the blog is that he's a Holocaust denier.

"All of the lies and travesties going on in today’s world actually revolves around the greatest propaganda hoax ever perpetrated: The organized, industrial gassing of the Jews by the Nazis."

"It’s all been the devious agenda of the Globalist Jews behind the curtain, the bald-faced lies and imaginations of older Jews, combined with the militant victimhood mentality of regular Jewry. This whole lying mess will soon destroy the very country that once liberated them from Hitler and killed millions of fellow Whites."

I'm a pretty left leaning guy, and feel for the plight of the Palestinians, but I can't support a website claiming that the Holocaust was a sham created for the benefit of the NWO/Illuminati agenda. That's something Ahmadinejad believes, and he doesn't believe that gays exist in Iran. So he's batshit crazy.

The big kicker here is that he could possibly have won, it was going to be close. Very close. The problem is that over 30 million paper ballot votes were counted in less than twelve hours. It's impossible to count that many votes that quickly using the practices the Iranians use to count votes. So now Iran sees that it's democratic process is a sham. That's the reason they are in the streets, that's the reason they are dying on those same streets. We don't need some X-Files secret government story to guess why they are protesting the election.

I 've met quite a few of Iranians in the blogosphere and on forums. Most are from Tehran. I'm sure many of them are in those rallies. To say that it's a Zionist/CIA plot to destabilize the country belittles their bravery and sacrifice.

[Sorknes]

It's interesting to see after all that's happened these days following the line of "closing the country down for information" with everything from controlling phones, internet, news, foreign journalists, etc, they've now come to the "fake evidence" point.

They're following the "recipy" pretty close to, this has all been seen before in different variations, and if nothing else it puts a big stamp on everything going on as "SOMETHING'S WRONG". No matter what happens now, the world will know that things were screwed up royally during this by those in power at the moment.

If no one know what I'm talking about when it comes to fake evidence it's not all the information from both sides being countered and then changed from both sides (some of it is more evidently true than others, but I'll let that lay), but when things that comes out by the (controlled) press over there is manipulated photos etc, and a bad job at that. It's a classic.

I wonder if they'll keep following this line or if it'll escalate quickly now.

[Chingwa]

Kev you must have a massive chip on your shoulder about me... you really could get some benefit from meditation, or tea, or something to soothe those reactionary nerves you've developed.

--------
Dougbot, I didn't even see what you were referring to until I did a search for "illuminati" on that page. I can see why someone might be put off but seriously it's just words and text, nothing to get too offended by. One can find merit in one sentence and discard the rest at will. to completely ignore the message because of the messenger ... sometimes you can miss out on something that rings true to you.

For example, sometimes kev does say something of interest that I actually agree with (improbable... but possible...), so I can gain some enlightenment from that single situation and ignore the rest of the vitriol. :)
--------

As far as why I'm skeptical about this whole process my first inclination would be to respond with "why shouldn't we all be skeptical?". What has politics done for us lately? I am very suspicious just by default of anything that comes out of our governments "mouth", and so should you.

It irks the hell out of me to see the results of a foreign election being put up to so much Western governmental criticism, and cold-shouldered antagonism... because the election didn't go the way they want? Are they (obama/clinton et al) seriously so concerned about irregularities of the election? Are they really concerned that Iran does not allow foreign election inspectors? Where was all this concern when the American people got hoodwinked with G.W. Bush twice? In both cases there were massive voting "irregularities" and we didn't allow foreign inspectors either. Their self righteous hypocrisy irk me. Where was there "concern" then?

It irks me to see this supposedly spontaneous usage of (corporate shilling tool)Twitter being manipulated by these same antagonistic government forces...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...a-iran-twitter

it irks me to see misrepresentations of photos in "respected" papers:
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/june2009/061809_iran_propaganda.htm

The bias going on here is palapable. why should I then believe what the western media obviously wants so much for me to see and read?

Seriously... It's not like there isn't a disastrous precedent for western manipulation of Iranian politics already...:rolleyes: I think a bit of skepticism is MORE than warranted.

[Sorknes]

"Western manipulation" of Iranian politics is what made Iran what it is today in the first place, so people should thread carefully either way indeed when it comes to all this. Especially those that might do an impact (politicians, etc).

I have to say it is both heartbreaking and interesting to view this thing though. That might seem very, very shallow, but apart from the people involved in all this - which no matter what is having a hard time, this is a crown example of information distritbution and closedown.

It makes me wonder what we might see in certain other countries later, as well. We might learn something from this, and with "we" I mean the world in total, really. If it's for good or bad is yet to be seen.

[Elam]

$5 says Chingwa's a Truther.

[Chingwa]

anyone who takes that bet is either an idiot or hasn't hung around the lounge long enough...:)

[liam.c]

http://twitter.com/Change_for_Iran that is the most powerfull shit ive ever read , thay could all be us

[Chingwa]

BUMP!

Had to answer this one from the other thread, and didn't want to interrupt the worry fest:

Wateru, I generally agree with you. However, there are times when oppression requires outside intervention in order for a popular uprising to succeed. This can be anything from money and logistics, to armaments and training, to actual military intervention.

Imagine how many lives and how much suffering could have been spared in Iraq if in 1991 after the war when the long-oppressed Shiites and Kurds rose up en masse following the encouragement of the U.S. Government, had the U.S. followed through with military assistance to topple Saddam Hussein. Instead, without assistance, this revolution was brutally and bloodily put down by Saddam, with tens of thousands of deaths resulting. Followed by a decade of further tyranny, torture and oppression under Ba'athist rule.

Kev... "imagine how many lives and how much suffering could have been spared in"... Iran if the U.S. hadn't been giving "outside intervention" in the first damn place. Iran had a popularly elected democracy 55 years ago until the West maliciously usurped the "will of the people".

So the U.S. supports the will of the people when it suits them and betrays the will of the people when it suits them! I find it impossible to look at the current situation and think the same behind-the-scenes politicking and meddling aren't going on today. I feel Twitter and the internet which people have come to trust throughout the Bush years has been co-opted in this instance... the fact that so many people are taking this (admittedly alarming) information at face value is disheartening.

And I still find the election-monitoring hypocrisy that I mentioned above infuriating.

[kev ferrara]

I sure am glad I voted for Obama. And not Eisenhower.

[GriNGo]

at liamc:

lol gringo link info wars and the ny times quoteing the establishment in iran , and then take that sad postion well we jsut dont know anythign if anythign is true <true ? sombanall? false ? maby?>. i can assure you that you would be hard pressed to find any one here that thought the cia dident fuck around , or any other intel agency aournd the world for that matter . but thats not the point is it ?

Nope.

u suggesting nothing happend ? there was no event <or it was small and nothign to see here >? it was all photoshoped and done in a studio ? maby a back lot some place ?

Nope.

Do you really beleave waht AJ says isent tainted , and theres no adgenda ? when he says it next to the nra banners and adverts to get people to buy seeds, and gold , and guns because the4 end is comeing soon ?or is it that you pick who ever just to continune a non exsistant argument ?

Nope, he just makes some good LOGICAL points about the election fraud. The rest of his conspiracy crap I don't particularly care about, cause I don't live in the states.

It seems the sum of waht your saying is , goverments/groups fuk with eachother , thay want to run the show here there and every where . that spooks/agents spred disinfo as tools to this end . that media isent to be trusted to tell the full or true story , that things can be faked . well woooh thats a great that you could enlighten us ! thanks for the new news !

Hahahah.

whats important is the documentation , it comeing in by the minunt and that people payed attention out side the msm <u can dispute waht ever u want can clame it was 1000 times worse or never happend , or that it was all a pony show > but the fact remains that this is something new and somethign to pay attention to . the vids the tweets the pics , weitehr thay were concocted by our state department , irans ministry , or were actual live events , thay were with out a doubt some of the most powerfull shit ive ever seen .the other extreemly intresting thing in all this is the avrage age 70% of people are 30 and under , that in it self makes it extreeeeeemly plauseable to me

Yes, that Neda girl dying was heart wrenching. Horrible. There were some other dead people, or nearly dying people in Iran, that also were terrible. A few years ago I also saw a vid of a terrorist decapitating a US soldier that was also quite terrifying. A martyr for Irak freedom? Not quite. Believing in Tweets as factual information? Damn...

at burning chrome:

Nothing I wrote in my previous post stated anything about quoting being forbidden. What I found extremely distastefully was the misconception you presented that someone from the NY Times was the source of the statement when it was in fact a statement from the Guardian Council. In any case, really, 3 million disputed votes is nothing to worry about? Geez, glad to see that Wall Street accounting practices are being exported world wide - "Don't worry, it's only 3 million dollars, what's the big deal? At least we didn't tell you about the 30 million that we left off the books - oops!"

What misconception? I just referenced where I read that info. 3 million votes do matter, but in this Case, not enough. It's a big deal for Mousavi, cause with election fraud and all, he still wouldn't win.. "Geddit?".

So your defense of a corrupt and authoritarian theocratic regime is to compare it to a nation (Israel) willing to use white phosphorus on crowded civilian areas in the name of national security? To justify any and all action in the name of "national security" when such recourse only benefits a select few at the cost of the many is not a protection or defense of national or personal liberties, it's a preservation of tyranny and the enforcement of oppression.

Re-read my post. I'm not justifying or defending anything. It's just how governments work.

Wow. Are you fraking serious? Yes, because as we all know, flag waving and confetti is the best way to go when attempting to redress the grievances between a government and its people. Heck, it worked in the American Revolution didn't it? Or was that the French?

Please, please read. I guess you missed the "Ukraine" part. I was citing this particular "revolution": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Revolution (which was mostly peaceful). Not all revolutions.

Do you honestly believe that the U.S. or the U.K. lack access to real-time satellite surveillance for the Middle East? If this was a "one big" protest heckuva day occurrence over and done within 24-48 hrs. with a bunch of malcontents it would not warrant a response from the U.K. Prime Minister, the White House press corps, or the President himself. These aren't some random crowds of a few people gathering in the streets protesting, intelligence agencies on both sides of the Atlantic know from their eyes in the sky that events are not proceeding as the Iranian heads of state had planned.

Ha ha. First of all, we're not exactly watching direct satellite feeds or god forbid, satellite "tweets" on our monitors or tv. It's all just anonymous tweets and cell phone videos and pics. Second, its kinda normal to expect their response, as those are governments that have been advocating the "toppling" of the Iranian clerical government for years. And third, I think you got your last statement there kinda backward.. it is going EXACTLY as the intelligence agencies had planned. ZOMG! CONSPIRACY!!!

Simply because a government can do something does not automatically entail that engaging in violent or coercive actions represent the highest ideal of a 'good government' or a stable society.

Of course. And that Jefferson quote is spot on! Congrats.

To Wateru:

Do you live & work in Iran? If you are in the US I'm guessing your living with the Iranian diaspora, which in general is VERY anti-clerical and pro-western. So their opinion is biased towards what they would prefer to have. Much like cuban-americans hate Castro and whatnot. I'm not using "these people" in a derogatory way, that's just your invention. Also, using blogs and tweets as verifiable information resources is just the same as consulting Wikipedia for a college level research paper, which, just in case, FYI, is not recommended (or allowed in much parts of the world, as I understand). But yes, it shows us that these new media tools are VERY powerful. People believe anything.
___

Good luck Bigbow..

[GhostValkyrie]

"Western manipulation" of Iranian politics is what made Iran what it is today in the first place, so people should thread carefully either way indeed when it comes to all this. Especially those that might do an impact (politicians, etc).

In part this is true.

However; It is not the only thing to blame. Freedom and a system of justice granting equality to individuals that would have sprouted a robust republic was not founded following the take down of the Shah. Instead a theocracy, masking itself a democratic came into place and people decided support and/or deal with it.

While there has been manipulation of the region by the west; We aren't the only ones to blame.

I don't agree with Benazir Bhutto's claim of islam being the religion of peace, very few religions are of peace in perspective. BUT - She does very eloquently explain in Reconciliation how the individuals in the region have to take responsibility for the affairs they're involved in or wish to be involved in.

Rather than people pointing fingers back and forth blaming one another, or shifting accountability to one source as is so easy nowadays; She held muslims(seeing as islam is the dominant religion, and the provinces/states are theocracies under the it's spell) accountable as well for not helping to improve the middle east, challenge terrorism, etc.

[waronmars]

Wait, Slash got a Cintiq!?

[Slash]

wait what? If i did i would like to know about it!

[GriNGo]

hahah...