How God Speaks to Artist Thomas Blackshear

[tsnipes]

I was pleasantly surprised to see that Thomas Blackshear, one of my favorite artists, was interviewed by author J. Scott McElroy in his book "Finding Divine Inspiration". Scott asks the artist "How does God work with you in your creative process?"
http://artlessonsfromgod.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/forgiven.jpg
Now if you don't recognize Blackshear by name, you may have seen his work. One of his most famous paintings, "Forgiven" (above), touches the spirit of many that view it, even to the point where some have fallen to their knees in tears.

Scott's interview with Blackshear addresses that. Without giving it all away, so that you can see for yourself, here's a brief overview:

Willing to Wait:

Blackshear describes how part of his process is going to God in prayer, asking that God would reveal to him the vision of the work he is suppose to create and to wait on it to come. He has learned to be patient and wait until God reveals the image rather than getting ahead of God and creating something "pretty" that doesn't accomplish anything.

Neutrality:

Scott's interview with Blackshear also discusses that although he may have his own ideas about the next project, Blackshear allows those ideas to take a backseat to the ideas revealed to him by God.

Fasting and Praying:

I don't think that God meant for us to play "guessing games" when it comes to hearing His voice. I believe that He's always speaking, but we have a lot of noise drowning out what he was saying. Blackshear uses the time during fasts to shut out distractions as he waits to sense what God wants to create through him.

[Jason Rainville]

Well I'm not on my knees, but that's one hell of a powerful image there.

[Peter Coene]

Um... I am Christian... and I really don't want to go to hell or anything for saying this... but that just makes me think "divine surprise buttsecks!"

..and now I need to go to confession again...

[Dave_]

More drawing, less praying!

[Mebiusu]

Drawing is prayer, to me.

[Jason Rainville]

Um... I am Christian... and I really don't want to go to hell or anything for saying this... but that just makes me think "divine surprise buttsecks!"

And I never even thought of that... thanks for ruining the pic for me :( (:P)

Did a search and it actually seems he does like low-level eroticism in some of his stuff (doesn't just do religious themed stuff)

[Eric Lofgren]

I'm no Christian, but that is one heck of a message in that painting. One a lot of people would definitely benefit from. Seriously, Christ was cool guy, despite 2 millenia of dogma and trappings.

[Grief]

truly powerful:

http://www.theplatelady.com/star_trek/picard.jpg

[Hyskoa]

truly powerful:

http://www.theplatelady.com/star_trek/picard.jpg

I don't know, Jesus groping a guy is some pretty strong stuff.

[XanaChama]

I have a feeling the compressed jpeg doesn't do it justice. Would prefer to see the painting in person :/ But yeah, I have admiration for people's "spiritual vision" irregardless of one's faith, because I believe hope is a humanistic quality. A very strong piece of work there.

[Grief]

I don't know, Jesus groping a guy is some pretty strong stuff.

whatever is going on with jesus' feet is some strong stuff.

also i consider myself to be smarter than the average bear so i shall explain the true power of this painting:

jesus has this guy held up, as though he's going to drag him to the corner to perform his finishing move from the top rope (which is a crucifix pose freefalling headbutt in case you dont watch rasslin'). the guy has illegal weapons in his hands, this tells me that it was a hardcore match, the bad guys tend to use weapons in the ring, so i'm sure we are supposed to be rooting for christ as our face, (its been awhile since jesus played a heel gimmick).

if i had to guess, the story line for this match would be that the man in purple (which is the color of sexual frustration when used in fashion) has jealously stolen the carpenter gimmick from jesus. this must be the no hold barred pay per view battle to decide the ultimate carpenter.

obviously jesus is a crowd favorite, and is handily defeating the foe who is nearly unconscious at this stage of the fight. the clear divide in the ground with the trail of blood lets me know this has been a gruesome ordeal for both competitors. the fact that jesus has his head down means that they are calling the match in the ring. this is a tactic used to inform the other wrestler of the sequence of moves that will be performed. this is used by more experienced wrestlers who are able to adapt 'on the fly', instead of calling the match in the back and making sure it fits within tv breaks. this tells us as astute viewers, that it is indeed a ppv fight. normally the athletes face will be visible and shown to the audience as it communicates the expression of the actions. a lot of wrestlers (jesus included) will wear long hair, this helps hide the talking between wrestlers when needed, and it also makes head movements appear more animated. there is a strong visual aspect the a full head of hair whipping about that is hard to mimic for athletes with short hair or wearing a mask.

the fact that blackshear chose to represent this part of the match shows that he is aware of the relationship between wrestlers. he is inviting the audience to willingly break the wrestlers kayfabe and see how the theater of the match is executed.

the man is wearing civilian clothes, which is a sign of being an outcast in wrestling, breaking from the traditional trunks and kneepands. he probably tried to win over the crown with an 'every-day man' character but was ill-recieved. i imagine that they brought in christ to reprise his role and layeth the smacketh down upon the man. i'm sure jesus would have cut a promo "the meek shall inherit my fist sucka!" before clobbering the man in purple in an altercation that would have appeared to be a shoot.

[Baron Impossible]

It's a great painting. Normally I'd praise the artist but since goddidit I won't bother.

[Elwell]

I liked it better when Blacksheare was just an illustrator, rather than a multimedia brand. More power to him, though. At least his brand of Christian Merchandise is more interesting than Kinkade's.

[Ashtonw]

Jesus is going to rape the shit out of that guy. :\

[Pawkfox]

It's skillfully done, a.. neat painting I guess.

Doesn't strike me in any way though..

On second thought, Jesus Is looking quite sinister.. that buttsechs thing might be true O_O

[DeadlyFreeze]

Why is it when I talk to god everyone just calls me crazy?

[Peter Coene]

Why is it when I talk to god everyone just calls me crazy?

Thats because when you do it you are usually facing a homeless guy.

[Pawkfox]

Why is it when I talk to god everyone just calls me crazy?

Don't take my word for it but;

What religious people refer to as 'talking to god'
Non religious people refer to as listening to their 'gut' or 'instinct' or 'intuition'

[Slash]

Talking to god is no biggie, everyone can do that. Its when he answers you should be worried. :P

[kab]

Trust Grief to make mocking someone's religion hilarious... :p

[Ilaekae]

"Talking to god is no biggie, everyone can do that. Its when he answers you should be worried."

You haaaaave noooOOOOoooo idea how many pairs of Jockeys I ruined when that happened...

[nonie]

"Talking to god is no biggie, everyone can do that. Its when he answers you should be worried."

You haaaaave noooOOOOoooo idea how many pairs of Jockeys I ruined when that happened...

You wear more than one at a time?

[яequiem]

If Jesus ever grabbed me like that you best believe there will be a lawsuit and a restraining order.

[Line]

Um... I am Christian... and I really don't want to go to hell or anything for saying this... but that just makes me think "divine surprise buttsecks!"

..and now I need to go to confession again...

OMG the biggest LOL in these forums yet!!!!:rocker:

[Ilaekae]

I'm going to pee on your lawn, nonie...>:{

[LORD M]

Why is it when I talk to god everyone just calls me crazy?

Chill, man. I also talk to God, but when I take these pills I got from the doctor, his voice disappears and he stops telling me to burn things down.

[DeadlyFreeze]

Chill, man. I also talk to God, but when I take these pills I got from the doctor, his voice disappears and he stops telling me to burn things down.

I think I need to get some of those man, God keeps yelling at me in Italian and I have no fucking idea what hes saying.

[Costau D]

God yelled at me once about crashing at his place and never paying the rent. He yelled "you are born!", and I ended up on this god forsaken planet.

[Chris Saksida]

Even though I am a christian (not part of the religion but by being a follower of Jesus) I must say this thread was too funny.

About the painting; I think that the technique of the artist is outstanding, but the subject and meaning of the painting in itself is a little shallow and lacks depth, I mean... ok, a suffering guy that is about to fall, and a generic jesus grabbing him to keep him on his feet... I like it when religious paintings have a little more depth and are not so obvious, there is so much room to express so many things, I don`t quite like this piece because it`s so... literal.

[Eric Lofgren]

About the painting; I think that the technique of the artist is outstanding, but the subject and meaning of the painting in itself is a little shallow and lacks depth, I mean... ok, a suffering guy that is about to fall, and a generic jesus grabbing him to keep him on his feet... I like it when religious paintings have a little more depth and are not so obvious, there is so much room to express so many things, I don`t quite like this piece because it`s so... literal.

Look closer.

[ArneSReismueller]

every year when i paint easter eggs i listen carefully what mr easter bunny wants me to paint!

[the ANGRY filipino]

Hmmm... I am a christian, though not a perfect example of a good christian, hardly the brimstone and fire category...but it just strikes me strange how a lot of westerners like to shit on Christ and christianity but don't have the balls to mock other religions in the same way... could it be because we christians don't have a tendency to declare holy war in this day and age? I mean, if you wanna be cool and show the world how intellectually superior you are and you think religion is a big pile of crap, why pick on only one religion? Why not go all out man?

As for being a christian and whether or not I'm an idiot for believing..take a look at it from this point of view...If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
That's all.
But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to exist and be true...well,
one of us is screwed eh?

As for the Jesus painting..it all depends on if you are a believer or not. I like the power it has, the way the details were painted...and the fact that Jesus' hands look damn strong and powerful...much like a seasond carpenters hands would look like.
Although I do agree that he could have presented it in such a way as to avoid getting that "buttsecks" comment.. Though it is clear that he wanted to present a moment of tender forgiveness...the painter should have known that for some people, any tender moment between men would be seen as gay by some people...

[~Faust~]

Muslims have no humor, buddists are just giggling all the time and who the hell understands Hinduism?

[kab]

Most people who think that a tender moment between two men is gay, are infact christians... =p

Christians get mocked more than other religions, that is true. Perhaps that is because it is harder to mock a religion we know little about, such as Islam or Hinduism? Interesting point though, I say we need to do more research and mock all religions equally :)

[squidmonk3j]

As for being a christian and whether or not I'm an idiot for believing..take a look at it from this point of view...If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
That's all.
But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to be exist and be true...well,
one of us is screwed eh?

arrogant shit like that -might- have something to do with the "mockery", dude...

[Baron Impossible]

If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
That's all.
But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to be exist and be true...well,
one of us is screwed eh?

That's precisely the reason I pray daily to the Great Spaghetti Monster. Worst case scenario I waste a chunk of my life but at least I won't have to endure eternity in some pasta-based hell if it turns out He actually exists.

[Mebiusu]

"Christ of Saint John of the Cross" resides at the St Mungo Museum of Religious Life and Art in Glasgow.

[ArneSReismueller]

MeSSwKffj9o

[George Abraham]

I tried that but I get so much dreams of interference from sorcerers etc..

I had a really nice one:

"We where on the island at a diner outside in the moonlight it reminded me of a sixties theme or the old monkey island series, the colors was rich, dark blue and gold because of the lanterns outside and there was that dreamy mood in the air with faint chimes of music sounding for a moonlight diner atmosphere. The table was cheery with all kinds of foe woman and men, eating and feasting, I saw the waiter come by wearing a funny red cylindrical hat with a tussle speaking to one of the men at the table. This man was dressed in a brownish suit and was the cheer of the party, He and the waiter shared a quick joke or funny phrase, the man laughed with such intent as to show the waiter what he's eating, I could see the cheese and spinach in his mouth, I guess it was some kind of popular dining gesture there to show the waiter what your eating.

The waiter walks off for a while, I seem to know the fat man, or I am guided to follow his actions. We move to a wide garden chair close buy next to a lantern while the waiter returns. The waiter sits down a large silver serving tray. He lifts the silver covering and exclaims: "Some fine monkey for dinner".

I look at the monkey, In the tray sit's one little black monkey, still much alive but messed up looking, just sitting there, staring with big shiny eyes, not moving, I stare at the monkey and hear the monkey speak. It said something I can't remember but it was rather shocking and deterring. The man on the bench winks at me from the side as to say... “Watch this”.. I look back while the rest of the dining table has come to observe the new serving suggestion, the monkey with the same terrible horrific small urgent voice and terrible eyes exclaims: "No world fire, No world fire..."

Everyone then decided they'd rather not have monkey that night.

[TASmith]

"and who the hell understands Hinduism"

I'd like to be Hindu. Then I could rag on all my friends - "Man, you know that guy's coming back a dog, the lazy bastard!"

We could do a thread of what we'd all reincarnate into.

[Grooveholmes]

LOL that simple youtube link is the only needed reply ArneSReismueller

[Aly Fell]

I wasn't familiar with Blackshear before this, so thanks. Not sure about the spiritual stuff, but I love his horror work!

[D@niel]

As for being a christian and whether or not I'm an idiot for believing..take a look at it from this point of view...If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
That's all.
But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to be exist and be true...well,
one of us is screwed eh?

We are all screwed any way! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_inconsistent_revelations

[Elwell]

I wasn't familiar with Blackshear before this, so thanks. Not sure about the spiritual stuff, but I love his horror work!
Now that's what I was talking about!

[Jason Rainville]

As for being a christian and whether or not I'm an idiot for believing..take a look at it from this point of view...If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
That's all.
But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to be exist and be true...well,
one of us is screwed eh?

First off, Pascal's Wager. I also never understood that mere belief would be so instrumental in securing one's place in the afterlife. You'd think Jesus would just want you to be a nice guy.

As for the Jesus painting..it all depends on if you are a believer or not.

(the rest of this comment is not directed at you) No, it doesn't actually. I'm an atheist and I think it's great. I understand the story of Christ and what his eternal 'job' was supposed to be and that picture illustrates it quite nicely. Just because the theme is theism doesn't mean I recoil in horror at the sight of Odin or Hephaestus or something. That's why I started off this thread by trying to steer it in a novel direction; tsnipes starts all his threads off mentioning how he or other artists draw their inspiration from god. Personally, I believe that's a load of crap. But 4000 threads later and his topics have yet to carry on an intelligent conversation because people feel the need to say so every single time.

I don't know if it's the same people over and over again or if it's a bunch of people who are unfamiliar with tsnipe's posts, but I thought it would be a neat thing to try out talking about the art/artist he was posting and not say for the BILLIONTH FUCKING TIME that

"lolz artists do it themselves."

Yes. I know. You know. Most of us know. We get it. Maybe we can ignore the Jesus parts of tsnipe's threads and start talking about the art instead so it doesn't get locked within 3 pages. Besides, whatever the fuck that artist is doing it's working out pretty good for him, don't you think?

Now I'm not saying "oh you can't criticize religion." because you can. You can make fun of Christians all you want. You can tell everyone to their face that god has no part in the creation of their art at any time whatsoever, and I'd agree with you.

But after hearing it so many times, I'd just like to talk about the pretty pictures, ok?

[kab]

Bravo Jason, you make a lot of good points, I agree that the whole "god, lol!" thing is annoying.

Still, he didn't post about the painting, he posted about god being needed to make art.

And everyone who has used a computer should be fully aware of the fact that any mention of god on the internet, will stir up a shitstorm in all directions. It is sadly the way the online world works, religion is a touchy subject and people feel a compelling urge to be smart about it. If tsnipes feels the need to mention it in his topics, no-one should feel the need to be surprised when the first ten replies are "god? lolz"...

It is tiring to watch, but then the world of messageboards, atleast places like the lounge, is endless repetition of unnecessary behaviour and very little evolution of opinions or manners. Sadly, I think the only way this will stop happening is if people stop posting about their religious beliefs in a way that can, in any way, be seen as "holier than thou".

[Mebiusu]

@ Poshspice and Jason Rainville, Well said. Yeah, I foolishly thought this thread was going to be a discussion of Blackshear's art and methods. I find him to be interesting. I clearly had the wrong idea, hence the Dali.
It's really hard to argue about "Avida Dollars" (http://www.infectuous.com/infpages/avida%20dollars.html)

[the ANGRY filipino]

arrogant shit like that -might- have something to do with the "mockery", dude...

dude, that was just a quip from my part...nothing arrogant about that.
if people who mock christians expect us to put up with it, then they should
put up with what we have to say sometimes...

hardly anything arrogant about what i wrote dude.

[Man Made God]

dude, that was just a quip from my part...nothing arrogant about that.
if people who mock christians expect us to put up with it, then they should
put up with what we have to say sometimes...

hardly anything arrogant about what i wrote dude.
It's arrogant that you think your religion is any more valid than the thousands of others that exist. It's also a little arrogant to assume that people haven't already considered Pascal's Wager... before effortlessly deconstructing it.

As for tsnipes threads... I think people respond with sarcasm because he tends to state subjective beliefs as fact.

[Cthogua]

Sadly, I think the only way this will stop happening is if people stop posting about their religious beliefs in a way that can, in any way, be seen as "holier than thou".

Eeh...The problem is the Abrahamic religions assert their absolute correctness, and absolute incorrectness of everything else in such....well absolute terms. Monotheism is an evolution of the religious impulse meant to create inclusion, and by extension, exclusion. While most Christians will, in the interest of civility not try to seem, "holier than thou" despite their belief system completely reinforcing, and through "witnessing" actively encouraging such behavior. I think Christians get a larger dose of mockery on boards and stuff, because 1.)the western world is most familiar with it, and it's history (which doesn't take much digging into to find something that makes you scratch your head) and 2.)In the "real world" I can't say I've witnessed much, to their face, christian bashing. In fact it seems like when ever there is someone out there getting in peoples faces about their religious beliefs...it's Christians. Never had a Hindu knock on my door at 8 am on a Saturday and be harder to chase away then a vacuum salesman. Never been invited to a ceremony at a Buddhist temple, and had my decision not to go obviously insult the person doing the inviting. In fact the only people that have ever reacted in an angry way to my atheism...is Christians, particularly the evangelicals. I imagine because their belief system asserts that it's their failure that I'm not joyfully joining their flock. I live in the American South, otherwise known as the bible belt, so my experience with Christianity might be a little more on the intense side than a lot of other folks from more religiously diverse areas

[the ANGRY filipino]

Also, I wrote what i wrote because people instantly started doing some chirstian bashing and mocking christianity.
If Mr. Blackshear feels the need to pray before he paints, so what?
How different is that from any of our own personal "prep" phases as we do our own works? Some people just get straight to work, some need to research a ton of stuff before they paint, some drink beer or smoke pot or whatever...
If Mr. Blackshear said he needed to do yoga or light incense to Buddha before he painted, would people have written the same crap they did in this thread?
No, they would have just said, "Oh, well he is a spiritual dude".
If Mr. Blackshear said he needed to roll out his prayer rug and pray to ALlah before he paints, no one would have said anything degrading about him or his beliefs.
I'm just saying, picking on Christians and what they believe in seems to be a cool thing to do nowadays.
I'm not a brimstone and fire kind of christian. I don't think you'll go to hell for actually enjoying sex, I don't even believe in what more conservative christians believe in.
I'm just saying, if you're gonna be an "intellectual shining light" , dude, how come you stop only at denouncing Christians..I get it, you don't believe in what we believe in.
If this post was all about," hey ca people, come to christ and be a christian", fine, you can work your mouth off mocking the poster or the religion. But This thread was just simply stating the fact that a certain christian artist needs to pray or commune with the God that he believes in before he paints..no one converting you in this thread people.
So why can't you just let it be, some people are christians, why the need to mock it?
Christianity is a way of life for some people, just like buddhism or islam....but I don't see anybody here mocking islam or Buddhism... cause that would raise a hornets nest , since its uncool to be politically incorrect. You'd be afraid of being called a racist if you did mock islam.
But mocking christians seems to be easier for you big fellas.

[the ANGRY filipino]

It's arrogant that you think your religion is any more valid than the thousands of others that exist. It's also a little arrogant to assume that people haven't already considered Pascal's Wager... before effortlessly deconstructing it.

As for tsnipes threads... I think people respond with sarcasm because he tends to state subjective beleifs as fact.


listen here, how old are you anyway?
I never said anything about my religion being more valid. Did you even read what I wrote? I just said that out of all the thousands of valid religions, you brave boys just seem to be able to focus on bashing christians and christianity.

If somebody here said he believed in Odin, you would be like " Oh shit, that's so cool man, your so spiritual"
If I said I believed in Jesus Christ, you'd be like"
Oh shit, your a fool"
but what's the difference between believing in one over the other?
why can't you just respect that some people believe in a God and just Sh#t the F up and not insult them when they weren't even trying to bother you in the first place?
Isn't what you are doing a form of discrimination? I respect your beliefs and I find no need to insult you for them, why can't you just return the favor?

[squidmonk3j]

Jason - Tsnipes's posts aren't about art...the "art" part is just memetic mimicry, and should be revealed as such at every single turn. Your suggestion of "never mind the words, just look at the pretty pictures" is dangerous...the context matters.

It's not about repeating "lolz artists do it themselves", it's about stating the presence of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Again and again.

[Aly Fell]

C'mon chaps, 'just look at the pretty pictures!' See, I found a nice big one of King Kong! ;)

[Mebiusu]

@Poshspice, I love that piece. Do you think it is Gouache or acrylic?

[Jason Rainville]

Jason - Tsnipes's posts aren't about art...the "art" part is just memetic mimicry, and should be revealed as such at every single turn. Your suggestion of "never mind the words, just look at the pretty pictures" is dangerous...the context matters.

The only people susceptible to tsnipe's words are those who are already of the Christian persuasion, and even without his posts they probably have already come to the conclusion that their actions are in some way guided.

As for the wolf in sheep's clothing, I really don't see any atheist converting on the spot or validating tsnipe's notion of "We're the instruments and He's the musician." If christians are conned into believing that it's all a gift from god, tsnipes isn't to blame for that one.

EDIT: though I really wish he'd reply one of these days. Doesn't seem all that intellectually honest to stir shit up all the time then let everyone else duke it out.

And that king kong is rocking my jungle.

[squidmonk3j]

The only people susceptible to tsnipe's words are those who are already of the Christian persuasion, and even without his posts they probably have already come to the conclusion that their actions are in some way guided.

As for the wolf in sheep's clothing, I really don't see any atheist converting on the spot or validating tsnipe's notion of "We're the instruments and He's the musician." If christians are conned into believing that it's all a gift from god, tsnipes isn't to blame for that one.

How many times do you suppose this has been asserted the past two millennia?

[the ANGRY filipino]

C'mon chaps, 'just look at the pretty pictures!' See, I found a nice big one of King Kong! ;)

if this is the stuff he comes up after praying, then lets leave him be.
He can take a bath in jello and put a trombone playing monkey on his head before he paints for all I care, as long as whatever he does inspires him to create art like this..

[Man Made God]

listen here, how old are you anyway?
I never said anything about my religion being more valid. Did you even read what I wrote? I just said that out of all the thousands of valid religions, you brave boys just seem to be able to focus on bashing christians and christianity.

If somebody here said he believed in Odin, you would be like " Oh shit, that's so cool man, your so spiritual"
If I said I believed in Jesus Christ, you'd be like"
Oh shit, your a fool"
but what's the difference between believing in one over the other?
why can't you just respect that some people believe in a God and just Sh#t the F up and not insult them when they weren't even trying to bother you in the first place?
Isn't what you are doing a form of discrimination? I respect your beliefs and I find no need to insult you for them, why can't you just return the favor?

The second that you used Pascal's Wager in an argument, you implied that your religion is plausible, and that others aren't, otherwise you would have mentioned them.

Nobody is discriminating against Christianity, I think most gods are on the same level of silly, although some of the stories are definately more interesting. "Spiritual" is a dirty word for me, people just tend to use it as a buzzword when talking about something supernatural.

if this is the stuff he comes up after praying, then lets leave him be.
He can take a bath in jello and put a trombone playing monkey on his head before he paints for all I care, as long as whatever he does inspires him to create art like this..

Yeah, and i'm pretty glad this thread came up, some nice art here.

[Cthogua]

Regarding the artwork...I think the sentiment is nice. The idea of forgiving even the person who nailed you to the cross is a powerful one, even if it is one of the rarer traits that seem to appear from Christians. I do find it kind of a weird anachronism that the guy holding the hammer and nail is a clean shaven white guy, and has blue jeans and a tee shirt on. This confuses the symbolism a bit for me. It seems like he's supposed to be an "everyman" and ignoring the obvious objection to everyman being an American looking 30 something white man, does this imply that we all crucified Jesus? I realize the doctrine is that Jesus died for our sins...but why is that something he has to forgive us for? "Died for our sins" is definitely different in intention than "nailed him to the cross." I suppose the theological assumption is that the two are one in the same. That our sins, and thus "us," nailed Jesus to the cross, and that he forgives us for that. However wasn't that his destiny all along? How is it our fault, and thus something to be forgiven if it was something that was going to happen anyway? Not only was it going to happen, but it was his purpose. However I suppose all that is dependent on your interpretation of Gods will, predestination, the divinity of Jesus, etc...I just have a hard time resolving the jeans and tee shirt as anything other than a attempt to appeal to a modern audience and the hammer and nail as some kind of accusation.

[Jason Rainville]

How many times do you suppose this has been asserted the past two millennia?

Historians Fallacy. Just because it happened before doesn't mean it will happen again. (despite what Starbuck says)

Edit: actually never mind. I'll let myself out of this thread before I derail it any more.

[the ANGRY filipino]

The second that you used Pascal's Wager in an argument, you implied that your religion is plausible, and that others aren't, otherwise you would have mentioned them.

Nobody is discriminating against Christianity, I think most gods are on the same level of silly, although some of the stories are definately more interesting. "Spiritual" is a dirty word for me, people just tend to use it as a buzzword when talking about something supernatural.


I wasn't the one who reffered to Pascal's wager.
I never said all other religions were invalid.
No one here called you out for being a non believer. I called you out because
even though you expect people to respect you for what you believe in, you don't give that back to other people who have different beliefs and even resorted to mocking them when it was uncalled for.
And I would call comparing my God to a spaghetti deity or something counts as discrimination. There is discrimination for Christians and Christianity as evidenced by the "witty" comments in this thread.
Can't say I blame them since a lot of conservative christians give christianity a bad name. Some Latter day people or jehovah's witnesses are at my door and refuse to leave? I just tell them, Dude, I know Christ, I am a christian, now please leave me alone because I've got stuff to do.
Hell, I get pissed of at other christians too. But I would never ever insult anyone for believing in something.
If you believe being an atheist frees you from the grip of organized, controlling religion, fine. That's cool man. I'm genuinely happy for you. That's the way you want to live your life, then do it.
I'm just saying, leave the others who wish to believe in Christ and Christianity alone man. Why the need to make them feel that they're idiots for believing in their chosen religion. Why the constant need to mock Christians?
They deal with the same bullshit that everyone has to go through everyday, if they feel a need to believe in something to help them get through the day, why mock them for it?
It's like telling another artist he can't paint or draw this way, and should only follow the style that you are telling them too.

[George Abraham]

9pS5xzOWbwo

[Man Made God]

I wasn't the one who reffered to Pascal's wager.
I never said all other religions were invalid.

If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
That's all.
But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to exist and be true...well,
one of us is screwed eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

The argument only works for one religion at a time, since they are mostly mutually exclusive, you used the argument, and this implies that to you, only Chrisitianity is worth considering when talking about "God".


No one here called you out for being a non believer. I called you out because
even though you expect people to respect you for what you believe in, you don't give that back to other people who have different beliefs and even resorted to mocking them when it was uncalled for.

When did I do this exactly? Plus, I don't really expect respect for my "beliefs", I'd rather be criticised than patronised.

And I would call comparing my God to a spaghetti deity or something counts as discrimination. There is discrimination for Christians and Christianity as evidenced by the "witty" comments in this thread.

And I would say that you shouldn't discriminate against Pastafarians. Pascal's Wager works just as well for them.

[the ANGRY filipino]

whatever floats your boat man.

I never said my religion was the only valid one.
Don't go putting words in my mouth. I may have used a similar argument, but I have always made it clear that for me, other religions are as valid as mine.
Go back and read through what I wrote..see it? pretty clear huh?
My point this whole time was that Christianity seems to be a popular religion to mock these days. To a point where a christian can't even profess his faith or describe any christian related stuff he/she does without automatically getting buried under a mountain of intellectual comments or witty put downs of their beliefs. That's discrimination dude. If you don't think it is, then i shudder to think what you think would constitute discrimination.

Discrimination against anyone is something I'm against wholeheartedly.
if you dont want to be respected for your beliefs, thats your choice. Sort of explains why you can't respect other's right to believe what they do.
I wasn't patronising you. I sincerely believe everyone has the right to believe anything they want..(except pedo's and murderers and such) .WITHOUT GETTING MOCKED FOR IT.

And my comment about one of us being screwed if my religion turns out to be true..that was just an attempt at humor...the same way some of you people here found it witty to compare my beliefs to believing in a spaghetti god and stuff. Why would you think it was arrogant? ever stop to think that putting down someone because of their beliefs smacks of arrogance as well?
If you can dish it out, then you better be able to take it as well.
Although I wouldn't wish hell on any one..life on earth is about as hellish as it gets anyway.

[nonie]

Everyone also has the right to mock whatever they want.

[the ANGRY filipino]

Everyone also has the right to mock whatever they want.

and what a lovely peaceful world it would be if we all thought like that.

and if you do like mocking people, don't get your panties in a bunch if those you are mocking speak out.

[Elwell]

Aren't you supposed to believe in turning the other cheek?;)

[spoonfruit]

Man o man.....why is it that every time someone tries to praise God for something by sharing it with others on the internet...the ones who don't care or don't believe shoot it down? If you don't believe or don't care or don't want to do either of those, then go away. That's probably the most effective way to let everyone know you don't care. Know what I mean?

[Black Spot]

Asking forgiveness is hard, but actually meaning it is tougher, and that’s what the picture is trying to convey. The question raised is, “Will this man nail anyone else?” If you don’t think so, then Christ won. If yes, the man didn’t mean it and doesn’t want real redemption.

As to the art, I think the composition is old fashioned without saying anything new, but this where size matters because big, it is powerful, small and it looks trite almost kitsch.

I believe God has a sense of humour (he made us) and the buttsex jokes are okay.

[OmenSpirits]

I like the monkey holding the chick. :)

[squidmonk3j]

Man o man.....why is it that every time someone tries to praise God for something by sharing it with others on the internet...the ones who don't care or don't believe shoot it down?

Specifically because of the evangelical imperative embedded in the system. It makes every christian statement is suspect, no matter how seemingly innocent. See, you might think you're -just- "spreading the word of God". But to me, you're a vector attempting to spread a virus. Or a drug addict dealing in order to feed your own addiction...any and every angle is pursued as long as the shit gets sold and the reward is had.

I have nothing against spirituality. It's the aggressive and sneaky marketing I despise.

[tsnipes]

and if you do like mocking people, don't get your panties in a bunch if those you are mocking speak out.

Hey, Angry filipino-

Don't be so angry.

Let's just enjoy the great art by Blackshear, and especially how diverse it is!
I think it's cool that God blesses him to create the spiritual themes as well as the secular stuff.

He even does great sculpture:
http://www.blackshearonline.com/members/AardvarkCatalog/9990290988494/image3.jpg

[Cthogua]

Man o man.....why is it that every time someone tries to praise God for something by sharing it with others on the internet...the ones who don't care or don't believe shoot it down? If you don't believe or don't care or don't want to do either of those, then go away. That's probably the most effective way to let everyone know you don't care. Know what I mean?

...not really

It sounds like you're saying if you have anything other to say than "OMG Jesus is awesome <high five> and the works he inspires fill me wonder and love" than you should not say anything at all....which sounds a lot like church, and we're not in church. If that was all you wanted then you should've posted that on a christian board. As it stands, this is an international board filled with all sorts of people with all sorts of opinions, especially about a topic as fun as Christianity. If you're going to bring it up, be prepared for someone to feel differently about it than you. There also seems to be a lot of picking and choosing going on with Christians as well. I'm certainly thankful for those of you who choose to ignore the bit about it being your duty to go out and convert as many people as possible, AND the part about all other gods being false...but that certainly isn't what the official christian doctrine is. In fact one of those beliefs is actually part of the 10 commandments.

[Nibras]

Guys, just taking the topic away from god and religion etc

I really don't like what this guy is doing. He's an awesome painter of course but the whole "I wait for god to give me the vision" stuff is alot of bullshit. I'm not saying god doesn't give him a vision, I myself am Muslim so yeah I do believe in god.

What really gets me about the stuff he's saying is how many people will be discouraged from doing art because of this. This guy above most people should know from his skill level that it's not talent or a vision god gives you, but hard work that takes you to where he is.
I don't think, no matter how good I got, that I would ever say something like that. We all start and think "oh no I don't have the talent for this" and it's mostly because of people like him encouraging this idea. I'd try my hardest to make it easier for people to believe that it's not natural born talent.

I just seriously don't understand why such an amazing artist would say something like that. To me, I feel like he's just cheated what art is all about, likes he's gone and cheated most artist by what he's saying just to get money or whateva

[D.Labruyere]

As someone who has been raised christian, I still have to agree with Cthogua. Being critical with your own belief and let other people criticize it is in my opinion very important for your own view points, as with every other aspect of your life. Though I do think that anything along the lines: "haha, your believe is stupid!" without giving any argument to why it is stupid is just damn silly.

But I have to add that there isn't something which you can call "the official christian doctrine". There are many different christian beliefs and each of them are different, sometimes even very contrasting. Which is no wonder, because the Bible contradicts itself many times, and isn't at all clear.

[George Abraham]

I first thought that first one was a sculptor.

It's actually the nail driver.

Kinda what's in here all the time, nail drivers and stuff that sounds like grinders making awefull tonality noises of bitching. I do much of that myself.

Bottom line for me is. Being a nail driver in general makes you a grumpy unhappy person, looking for stuff to make your panties get into a bunch most of the time.

I like the smiling Jesus.

Lighten up. Don't need to agree with a whole serious outlook on every detail of every contractual implication of every square inch, I don't have to... I like the smiling Jesus, looking at it makes me feel happy. Complication and expecting everything in the world to be perfect to the letter won't make you grow nice wings that can make you fly in your dreams.

Objective fuss keeps us down as in anchored to our problems.

[Mebiusu]

Swan Song-
I wish I could find a better image of this to study, but no luck thus far.

[Peter Coene]

"and who the hell understands Hinduism"

I'd like to be Hindu. Then I could rag on all my friends - "Man, you know that guy's coming back a dog, the lazy bastard!"

We could do a thread of what we'd all reincarnate into.


Actually, I like the Buddhist version of reincarnation more; its not that you actually come back, its just a matter of causality where the end of your life causes a new life to begin, where they are not the same in that whoever you are ceases to exist on earth, but at the same time are the same in that they belong to the same string of causality. And whoever that sorry SOB is that is caused by your death inherrits your karmic debt. Also, that way they could actually be caused by the events leading to your death or after your death, and still be your reincarnated self... even if you aren't dead yet. Really fun to think about, huh?

Plus, I like it because it leaves wiggle room for other religions that teach about souls and heaven and all that jazz to be true too.

[George Abraham]

It doesn't allways seem to work though.

Some people find it hard to rise out above their situations.
Most people can get really fussed and stuck over minor details.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0aJr2MAaD190c/610x.jpg

[Baron Impossible]

I did notice that whilst the painting in the OP is undeniably excellent, Jesus is looking suspiciously westernised. His skin is the same colour as the other guy. Also, I'm not sure why his feet are so large. I can understand the hands, as they're active in the interpretation of the piece, but the feet?

I sincerely believe everyone has the right to believe anything they want..(except pedo's and murderers and such)

I think you'll find Jesus wouldn't agree with you there. Not only did Jesus on occasion keep the company of criminals, he rejoiced more in the repentant sinner than the person who never sinned. Never heard the parable of the lost son? Not familiar with Luke 15:7? "I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance."

[OmenSpirits]

I. LIKE. THE. MON-KEY. HOLDING. THE. CHICK!

Now, go with buddha my children.

[Black Spot]

I think you'll find Jesus wouldn't agree with you there. Not only did Jesus on occasion keep the company of criminals, he rejoiced more in the repentant sinner than the person who never sinned. Never heard the parable of the lost son? Not familiar with Luke 15:7? "I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance."

It's the definition of repentance that most people have. I take it as a realisation that you've done wrong, why it was wrong and won't ever consider doing it again - not "I'm sorry", shrug shoulders and that's the end of it. It's a lot tougher than it sounds when you bring it into the small things you do each day.

[LORD M]

Hmmm... I am a christian, though not a perfect example of a good christian, hardly the brimstone and fire category...but it just strikes me strange how a lot of westerners like to shit on Christ and christianity but don't have the balls to mock other religions in the same way... could it be because we christians don't have a tendency to declare holy war in this day and age? I mean, if you wanna be cool and show the world how intellectually superior you are and you think religion is a big pile of crap, why pick on only one religion? Why not go all out man?

As for being a christian and whether or not I'm an idiot for believing..take a look at it from this point of view...If Jesus and Christianity and God is nothing but a fallacy, I would have spent my life believing in something..and you would have been right...
That's all.
But if Jesus and God and Christianity turns out to exist and be true...well,
one of us is screwed eh?


Don't worry. I for one atleast mock all religions equaly. I would rather be screwed then to spend my life worshipping a false god, which ever of ALL of them it would be that was the "right" one.

Maybe there's a solution anyway if one worship all gods, then you're sure not to go to hell, or reincarnate as a tapeworm or something less pleasant. :P

[wassermelone]

The religious debate isnt as cool as MONSTER TRUCKS.
:donk:

http://monsterblog.lzsportsource.com/images/news/2008/062108/mcmurray_poster.jpg

[the ANGRY filipino]

Aren't you supposed to believe in turning the other cheek?;)

that's another christian stereotype I refuse to be part of.

anyway, more of Mr. Blackshear's art is needed in here.


LordM, that's an attitude I like! If youre gonna mock religion, mock 'em all equally. That's mocking with Balls my man!
Don't just mock the group of people known for turning the other cheek.

Baron Impossible, none of us can really speak for Jesus now, can we.
sure, he spent time with criminals, but don't forget that he held innocent children in high regard.
and if ever there was a hell, i think a vast majority of people would agree pedo's belong there..no matter what people believe or don't believe in.

[Mebiusu]

Hey, whats not to like? Eh?

[Dorkthrone]

Yeah, I am not Christian at all, but that painting is actually pretty good. A hell of a lot better than Kinkaide, by any measure.

Sure, the "GOD MADE ME PAINT THIS" rhetoric is pretty ridiculous, but I can't fault the guy's artistic talent.

And whoever posted the horror paintings he did earns a cyber-medal. I've never even heard of this guy.

[Baron Impossible]

Baron Impossible, none of us can really speak for Jesus now, can we.

The Bible tells us so, Angry, so it's 100% true.


and if ever there was a hell, i think a vast majority of people would agree pedo's belong there..no matter what people believe or don't believe in.

Well, not if you're a true Christian you don't. Hell is reserved for the really nasty stuff like homosexuality (Leviticus, punishable by death), blasphemy (again, Leviticus promotes a fatality as the logical outcome whilst Matthew believes ordinary blasphemy is OK but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will result in eternal damnation), being drunk (denied access to heaven if Galatians is to be believed), not believing Jesus was the son of God, plus numerous others including, if you happen to be Catholic, masturbation and missing mass.

[Slash]

Haha, the unfolding of this topic is endlessly amusing in its predictability. :P Pretty neat art tho.

It would be interesting to see threads with titles like "How god speaks to George Bush" or "How god spoke to Charles Manson."

[the ANGRY filipino]

The Bible tells us so, Angry, so it's 100% true.



Well, not if you're a true Christian you don't. Hell is reserved for the really nasty stuff like homosexuality (Leviticus, punishable by death), blasphemy (again, Leviticus promotes a fatality as the logical outcome whilst Matthew believes ordinary blasphemy is OK but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will result in eternal damnation), being drunk (denied access to heaven if Galatians is to be believed), not believing Jesus was the son of God, plus numerous others including, if you happen to be Catholic, masturbation and missing mass.

Man, not everyone reads the bible and takes it literally.
and no two people can ever read the same passage and understand it in exactly the same way.
hey, why don't you try reading the koran and tell us how you "interpret" it?
Homosexuality is punishable by death in some faiths ancient texts too. when was the last time you saw 2 gay men killed by their town/city/village in your country because they were gay? now use the almighty google and check what they do to homosexuals in islamic countries present day...
and after that try reading other texts of the other religions, each and everyone of these texts has something that even firm believers of those faiths need to take with a grain of salt.
like i said, it's easy to mock those who turn the other cheek, not as easy to mock those who can shove a kill order up your ass for mocking their religion.

[OmenSpirits]

Hey, whats not to like? Eh?
See, SOMEONE GETS IT!

[Peter Coene]

Haha, the unfolding of this topic is endlessly amusing in its predictability. :P Pretty neat art tho.

It would be interesting to see threads with titles like "How god speaks to George Bush" or "How god spoke to Charles Manson."

You know, I'd kind of like to see some of the ones where the religious nutcases are the ones who actually did something amazing (in a good way)... like "How God spoke to Mother Theresa" or "How God spoke to John Paul II."

[D.Labruyere]

The Bible tells us so, Angry, so it's 100% true.



Well, not if you're a true Christian you don't. Hell is reserved for the really nasty stuff like homosexuality (Leviticus, punishable by death), blasphemy (again, Leviticus promotes a fatality as the logical outcome whilst Matthew believes ordinary blasphemy is OK but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will result in eternal damnation), being drunk (denied access to heaven if Galatians is to be believed), not believing Jesus was the son of God, plus numerous others including, if you happen to be Catholic, masturbation and missing mass.

Yup, and and there are plenty of texts in the Bible who tell us that everybody shall be forgiven and will go to heaven. So I'd have to ask you, which text is 100% true?

[Man Made God]

Yup, and and there are plenty of texts in the Bible who tell us that everybody shall be forgiven and will go to heaven. So I'd have to ask you, which text is 100% true?

Why would you assume that any of it is true? Like you said, it is riddled with contradiction. Why do you assume that the nice parts are true, and the vile parts are false, unless you are just trying to confirm a preconceived idea of what the book represents?

[Eric Lofgren]

Aren't you supposed to believe in turning the other cheek?;)

Take an irony point, Elwell :)

[nonie]

and what a lovely peaceful world it would be if we all thought like that.

and if you do like mocking people, don't get your panties in a bunch if those you are mocking speak out.

Actually we do think like that, it's in the Bill of Rights. But you may notice the only person I mocked in this thread was Ilaekae (not you or any religion), and he thanked me :P

[D.Labruyere]

Why would you assume that any of it is true? Like you said, it is riddled with contradiction. Why do you assume that the nice parts are true, and the vile parts are false, unless you are just trying to confirm a preconceived idea of what the book represents?


ahh, but your first sentence is exactly my point.
I was just saying that you can't really say anything is 100% true, when it comes to the Bible, so following it litteraly is impossible, even if you wanted to. In the end it is up to yourself to say what is true or not true, and how you think you can be a good christian.

[alesoun]

Define God.....

[Hyskoa]

Define God.....

ReHEALLY old guy who did some stuff 6-10 thousand years ago and then was never seen again.
He also had aan illegitimate son with a carpenter's wife about 2000 years ago whom instructed others to write a story book.

[Jason Rainville]

Define God.....

The guy who rolls natural 20's whenever he wants.

[Brashen]

Religion is flawed because man is irrevocably flawed. It's up to everyone of us to make sense of everything in our own way...there's no point in pointing the finger. We as artists have been given the greatest gift of all in my opinion. Whether it as given to us by divine providence or through evolution or by sacrificing tiny marsupials in our attics doesn't matter.

As for me since I live above the edict of man: SUCK IT BITCHES JESUS RULZZZZZZZZZZZ!!

Oh alesoun: God is whatever you need him to be.

[JailHouseRock2]

Haha, the unfolding of this topic is endlessly amusing in its predictability. :P Pretty neat art tho.




I've got to agree mate, very predictable, amusing and some times quite annoying:P,

Here's some more paintings for those interested,
matt

[Costau D]

Define God.....

42...

[JackHatesJack]

I'm really not in any way a fan of religion, at all, but fuck it, at the end of the day all that I can see that matters is that this guy can produce, and what he's producing is a lot better than what most of the people bitching about his creative process on the internet can do.

I'm more concerned with the art he's doing than how he spends his weekends. And the art is nice.

[Jason Ross]

Oh ok, now I understand why so many soldiers and poor children in the middle east are getting their arms and legs blown off..."god" is off talking and revealing stuff to this guy to help him paint. Out of so much in the cosmos that god could reveal...he settles on an image that this guy could most likely paint anyway.

He has nice technique and his images are nice to look at. The King Kong image is really nice. I don't care what religion he is or what he does to create his images.

[Bill]

I personally recoil against Christianity as it's been Christians more than any others who've condescended me in the past for not sharing their irrational beliefs.

[Brashen]

I personally recoil against Christianity as it's been Christians more than any others who've condescended me in the past for not sharing their irrational beliefs.

Well that's an irrational statement if I ever saw one....

[Bill]

Well that's an irrational statement if I ever saw one....

OK, ...why?

[Brashen]

Because you couldn't have met every Christian on this planet so your statement in it's essence is defunct. Now if you met everyone on this planet and then took a survey on whom was more condescending and found out that Christians were more likely to be condescending then your statement may have had some sort of merit instead of coming of like some anti-christian jackass. :)

[Bill]

I haven't commented on every Christian. I commented on the Christian belief and I commented on those Christians who've condescended me for not sharing that belief. I'm not sure you're understanding my original comment.

[Brashen]

When you comment on the christian belief your comment directly includes all believers as well regardless of domination or what part of the dogma they follow. Also no matter what other 'Christians' may have done to you there is no need to be insensitive towards the whole faith....that's irrational...To give a better example: A cop may have beaten you to submission once because of your ethnicity...does that mean all cops are like that one cop?

[squidmonk3j]

brashen - unless there exists an official Manual where cops are explicitly instructed to beat up ppl of a particular ethnicity, your example is irrelevant.

[Hyskoa]

When you comment on the christian belief your comment directly includes all believers as well regardless of domination or what part of the dogma they follow. Also no matter what other 'Christians' may have done to you there is no need to be insensitive towards the whole faith....that's irrational...To give a better example: A cop may have beaten you to submission once because of your ethnicity...does that mean all cops are like that one cop?

You can't choose a police force, however you can vote and ask for stronger regulation.
Everyone who doesn't vote against racial profiling is than equally guilty as the cop who hit the other person based on skin tone.

Same with religion, you can chose whatever religion you like, but once you disagree with the actions taken as a group, you either leave the group or condone the behavior.

So every christian in this case is equally guilty for not condoning gay marriage, blocking stem cell research and if you want to go back in time, the crusades.
But they have changed that part since then.
Unless of course Bush was right with his mention of a crusade.

[Bill]

Brashen, to say I've been been condescended by some plumbers is not a comment that all plumbers are condescending, it's a comment about my personal experience and the plumbers that I've personally met.

Yes, it ocurred to me that to call the belief irrational is a comment on Christians. The comment is that Christians believe in something irrational. They do.

[Brashen]

brashen - unless there exists an official Manual where cops are explicitly instructed to beat up ppl of a particular ethnicity, your example is irrelevant.

If your implying that the Bible is an Official manual and is telling people to be condescending to others than your wrong on both accounts. The Bible is a reminder of what Christians should aspire to become nothing more nothing less. At least that's the way I see it. And the police are humans and suffer the same shortcomings that every human being suffers just as Christians are human beings and are mislead by other 'authorities' to perform actions that contradict the original teachings of Jesus Christ. People love to point out the flaws and the wrongdoings of each other and of ideologies instead of concentrating and rejoicing in whats good about them for the sake of being different and for the sake of sounding smart where in reality they're just regurgitating whats been said and done before.

Hyskoa (shouldn't it be Hysoka?) Before jumping on the anti-christian bandwagon why not ask yourself instead whats wrong in standing up for something you believe in. A lot of people apart from Christians have very strong anti-gay beliefs... is it not then safe to assume that not all Christians believe that gays shouldn't have rights?

The problem with all your replies is that you've tossed out a person's individuality...you've made every person that has lived is living and is yet to live a robot and that being part of a sect, religion, or collective instantly deprives you of personal beliefs or thinking.

[Hyskoa]

Hyskoa (shouldn't it be Hysoka?) Before jumping on the anti-christian bandwagon why not ask yourself instead whats wrong in standing up for something you believe in. As a belief, nothing. But it influences laws, which is wrong. If you don't like gay marriage, then don't marry a guy. But to ban others from doing so is retarded. A lot of people apart from Christians have very strong anti-gay beliefs...Doesn't mean they're right. is it not then safe to assume that not all Christians believe that gays shouldn't have rights?


It's safe to assume the religion propagates the fight against this marriage. So to be part of that sect means you condone the behavior, even if you are of another opinion.

If christianity was small enough as a group then nobody would ever give a shit what you people assume. It's because you're such a large group of.. something, that you influence laws and make sure other people suffer your shite.

If the church would abandon the gay marriage, stem cell, condom use, ... themes and stayed out of politics, then they wouldn't have as much backlash from normal, rational people who just want to lead their life without being disallowed by a group of people who talk to their imaginary friend.

Anyway, that's my last reply in this thread. As it's pointless.
I blame tsnipes, if these works were posted without the religious wank, everyone would have judged the work for it's own merit.

[Brashen]

I'm sorry but all your arguments are based on irrational thinking and unproductive backlashes.

To say that laws are not being influenced is irrational....man makes the laws and man is influenced by an infinite amount of secular emotions and 'irrational thinking' regardless of religion.

Doesn't mean they are wrong either, because if we truly knew what was wrong and what was right we wouldn't be having this argument in the first place.

So now we switched from the religion to the church...if you were actually reading my previous posts instead of thinking of ways to discriminate and belittle my faith you would have realized that anything man made or is affected by human feelings is inherently flawed. I will repeat again Christianity at it's basis teaches us to be good to one an another. You just wish to harm and discriminate against people whom you've never even met because they are a part and believe in something that you don't .....isn't that what you were fighting against? I apologize but nothing you say has any foundation. You say your fighting against bigotry yet you have no notion of the actual meaning of the word... you say you wish to fight oppression yet you seek to do to others what you wish not to be done to yourself.

And as for imaginary friends your just putting your foot in your mouth...please continue with your insults but I will not waste anymore of my time with you useless bantering.

[Rist]

This is hilarious. Tony and Goerge Bush spoke to HIM himself before the Iraqcaust.

[squidmonk3j]

If your implying that the Bible is an Official manual and is telling people to be condescending to others than your wrong on both accounts. The Bible is a reminder of what Christians should aspire to become nothing more nothing less. At least that's the way I see it. And the police are humans and suffer the same shortcomings that every human being suffers just as Christians are human beings and are mislead by other 'authorities' to perform actions that contradict the original teachings of Jesus Christ. People love to point out the flaws and the wrongdoings of each other and of ideologies instead of concentrating and rejoicing in whats good about them for the sake of being different and for the sake of sounding smart where in reality they're just regurgitating whats been said and done before.

Your manual has its set of rules and guidelines. Now, I am aware that exactly -what- parts you randomly (or in accordance with the fashions of the day) choose to follow/interpret/ignore, is up to you. But the totality of the manual is an undeniable fact.

A cop beating up somebody because of their ethnicity would be in violation of the manual by which his actions should follow. A Christian stoning a witch would not. Do you see the difference?

Or are you suggesting we praise your deviations from the very manual you yourself have chosen to subscribe to?

I predict the imminent closing of this thread, so why not go all out....I'm sure there are sentences and paragraphs in Mein Kampf that, on their own, make perfect sense. But the totality of -that- book is also an undeniable fact. If someone were to tell you not to pay any attention to "all that stuff about Jews and Communists", and instead focus on the "good parts", would you open your mind and let Hitler into your heart?

[Elwell]

I predict the imminent closing of this thread, so why not go all out....I'm sure there are sentences and paragraphs in Mein Kampf that, on their own, make perfect sense.
Congratulations, you made this a self-fulfilling prophesy by Godwinising it.
If someone wants to start a Thomas Blackshear ART thread over in Art Discussion, please feel free.