Just got my first gig for a childrens book, got a few questions

[Adam Nowak]

So I got in touch with someone who is currently trying to publish his first childrens book he's written. He wants me to come up with concepts for the characters and environments before he wants me to illustrate the entire book. So far I have signed an NDA for his book and nothing else. I'm currently working on the concepts.

So I have a few questions for those who have done something like this before:

Should he sign an agreement for the concepts that I create for him now? And after we get to the point where we both agree on the illustrations, how should I discuss money? He is publishing this through an online website and his first book is coming out within the next few weeks so I'm not sure if that has any role in it. I'd just like some pointers on how to go through with this since it's my first time.

[Nickillus]

Hi Gamerhomie,
Many congrats. You must be pretty excited about it.

I've worked through an agent all my pro life, so may not be the best equipped to help you, but - I do think it would be helpful to you both to clarify what's expected from each of you, lay down some ground rules and then stick to them. It's best that you both know where you stand.
This is a bit different if the guy is self publishing, but in the mainstream publishing world, it's not uncommon to have a flat fee for a certain amount of preparatory work (you agree between you how much you are prepared to do, and how much he would ideally like to see).
It might not be a brilliant first fee, but shows good faith between you and can also be seen as first payment should the project go ahead with you as illustrator. Not having any idea of the project or having worked in self publishing (and being in the UK), where the feescale will differ), I cannot advise you on actual amounts. If it doesn't go ahead it can be seen as a rejection fee - which is what would happen as a pro. He's paid you or your time, but it didn't work out this time.

After that - assuming it goes ahead, you can go for a flat fee for the job, or take a chance on a smaller fee on completion, subject to receiving a royalty. This is a small, ongoing percentage of the profits after production costs have been covered. This all needs to be agreed beforehand - again so everyone knows where they stand.

Flat fee is good because you know exactly how much you are getting and when (or you should).
Royalty is good if the book takes off and sells a truck-load, because you may make more money in the long run - but it's a risk. And the guy may well not want to offer that. Although if he's self publishing the budget may be tight and it might suit him to offer such a deal. But will a self published, self marketed book catch the wind and make it worth that rik . . . .? With the flooded book market, and 99.9% of small publications being drowned by the big publishers' promotion of their money making titles, there is a good argument against it, but . . . .. . you never know . . . .hmmmmmm?

It would be good to come to a friendly but firm agreement and even have some sort of contract. A royalty type deal will be a bit trickier to work out, but should still be possible. There is no need to be heavy handed, but things need to be clear. Set dates for art delivery and payment. Make it clear at what point payment becomes due to you. 'Acceptance of the artwork' can be a bit of a flexible friend to the publisher sometimes. Clarify what that means to you both.
It will make you both feel more professional and so long as you guys make it sensible and try to abide by it, may help keep the project on the rails for your mutual benefit.

[Stoat]

Also -- not to be a downer or anything -- but unless you're something like a husband and wife team, most publisher prefer to choose illustrators themselves from their own stable.

If art concepts are integral to the book, you might get away with it. But...just don't put a LOT of time into it until the concept has been pitched to somebody.

In my experience, which is very old...

[Viridis]

Don't do any sketches before you've hashed out prices and how much work you're expected to do. Otherwise what's to stop him from dumping you, taking your free sketches, and getting someone else who's cheaper? Unfortunately it's all too easy to get screwed over.

[Adam Nowak]

Thanks a lot for the responses guys, it helped me think this through a little clearer. I'll get in contact with him to discuss payment.

Anther thing, he told me the absolute deadline is sometime in early September when he needs everything put together and in the time since he's started, he's had one other illustrator so far that didn't work out because she couldn't find the time.

[Sorknes]

I was gonna do a childrens book and couldn't find the time... heh. :)

As long as it's not family or anything, yes, make sure you get your payment, especially if it's not the publisher that's hired you. If it's based on sales or a one time payment or whatever. Also make sure that whatever contract states that either the author or you "owns" the characters or that they are free to use between you.

Also, make sure that you have a timeline set between you and the author if that's the person you're having all your contact with. It helps you when freelancing, and it helps the author knowing what's going on. When I was doing this I never signed anything and no "frames" were made, and in the end so much thing happened that I couldn't find the time to do pull it a finished stage. It sucked for me, but probably a lot more for the author who was waiting for things with no real timeframe written down on paper.

Anyways, good luck! And hope you and the author finds the right flow and everything goes smoothly. Getting a job like this must be exciting! :D

Edit: and for you guys that wonders why I'm telling how bad I am at this in an open forum that anyone can read, I've kind of found that freelancing isn't anything for me. At this stage anyway. That children book mentioned being one of the main reasons for realising that....

Second edit: And this doesn't even touch all of the weird works that people has actually asked me to as a freelancer without having any skills whatsoever in the particular areas wanted... which is even a stronger pointer for me that freelance is not for me... yet :P

[CCThrom]

Yeah - you need to think this through.

If the author plans to self-publish, the situation is quite clear... he's hiring you as an illustrator and YES you need to work out your fees and set up a contract.

BUT... if this is an unpublished author who thinks he needs "concept illustrations" to help get published... well then you're in a much grayer situation. A lot of startup authors are under the misconception that hiring their own illustrator will somehow help their chances of getting published. They generally don't know how to deal with professional illustrators, and they are almost always wrong in thinking they need illustrations at all.

Therefore a lot of times instead of real payment, you will get offers of "royalty" or "percent of profits". Unfortunately, unless the author is self-publishing they can't deliver on any of that. They don't make those decisions. Even if your illustrations are top-notch, the odds that a publishing house will take the illustrations as well as the manuscript is almost zero.

If the author insists that they need concept illustrations, you both need to understand that they are hiring you essentially as a PR/pitch artist. You should have a fee up front. Understand that if you work for a "percentage" it will almost surely end up being a percentage of nothing.

Now, lest you think I'm a total downer... I'm not saying this kind of thing can't happen... but this is an odds game. You're talking about a low-odds approach in an already low-odds industry. That's why it's critical to know if the author plans to self-publish or not. The situation is a WHOLE lot clearer if they do.

[Baron Impossible]

Therefore a lot of times instead of real payment, you will get offers of "royalty" or "percent of profits". Unfortunately, unless the author is self-publishing they can't deliver on any of that.

I'd add that the vast majority of self-publishing authors can't either