Old anarchy bike concept, needing help from bike know-it-alls

[davi]

http://www.creatureone.com/images/dsgg007x7.jpg

this is an old concept i did for one of those DSG's

I want to redesign it so it's more practical. it's based off the akira gangbikes and the dodge tomahawk(http://www.factoryfat.com/images/tomahawk3_1280x1024.jpg). here's what i want it to do....


Topspeed 350 mph
Accerlication: 0-60 mph: 2.5 seconds
Max Engine Speed: 6500 rpm
Very high speeds on gravel and broken concerte
Enough 'coushin' to land from eh... 10feet while going 300mph without having damage to the bike


I know NOTHING really about bikes. I know it needs whells and a seat.... and headlights. I don't know what the shape of a powerful engine would look like... i don't know where and how the whells need to be set either..

Basicly i want to design a highspeed dirtbike that can be used for unpractical combat.

[davi]

Ok, i started over and this is what i have so far, i moved the front whell closer. Added a diagnol slice down the sides for desgn, not sure if you can tell where i'm going with it but i promise i'll make it look better. Tried to make it as aerodynamic as i could, while still having it look strong and 'rugged'

http://www.creatureone.com/04/superbike01b.jpg

[N D Hill]

Great work!

About dirtbikes; basically, a dirt bike is an off road vehicle. The body is suspended fairly high off the wheels and it's got some heavy-duty shocks. Your bike comes closer to looking like a crotch-rocket because of it's set-up. You'd need a pretty flat road undernieth where as a dirtbike can go just about anywhere because of it's hight allowance undernieth and light frame. http://www.just-in.net/clipart/dirt/img/dirtbike.jpg

You have to ask yourself what you want it to do. Your rendering is absolutely fine. it's just a few things like the placement of the wheels in proportion to the body and the rear tire-guard that may be considered impractical mechanically. Again though, great work!

[davi]

i totally see what you mean, it's suppose to be kind of an insanely fast dirt bike... i honestly had fun learning some of the mechanics of motorcycles and drawing it and all... but seriously....this design f'n sucks. i need to revamp alot of it.

[R_M]

Davi, what you are asking this bike to do is impossible at the moment.
Not even GP500 bikes reach that kind of speeds, and they travel on very good road.
That kind of speed would probaly make the bike fly....
I am not sure of the phisics involved but I don't think it is possible on earth.

oh one more thing the rider has to wear something to cover his arms, other wise he will dehidrate very very fast at that kind of speed.

I know I am spoiler..:o

take a look at the big japanese bikes (hayabusa, ninja whatever) they are shaped like bullets, and are barely capable of 250mph. any faster and your arms can't hold a grip on the handles. there is a reason why the bosshoss bike doesn't have an official speed just an indicative number :D

[davi]

well i know what your saying, but if it were possible i wouldn't be sitting here trying to create pretend ways for it to visually work :]

I just need it to look functional yet... not at the same time.

The akira bikes wen't at least 150+ and they used melee weapons at the same time, not practical at all, but visually fun as hell

[davi]

http://www.creatureone.com/04/superbike01c.jpg

[Idiot Apathy]

My 2 cents and a nickel:

Aerodynamics would certainly be necessary, maybe bring in the front tire and lower the front of the bike.

If it is too hard to stay on the bike and hold onto the handles going 250+ then the bike would have to be redesigned. Perhaps change the sitting position to a more laid back approach (Think astronauts in a space shuttle, but not that extreme). Change the position of the handlebars, or change the steering all-together.

I get the feel that you want this bike to be designed or modified for Bosozoku gang combat, Akira Style. A scabbard would do nicely ;).

Overall I think it would look better if it were longer and shorter.

The beauty of design is in the eyes of the beholder, good luck!

Thanks, the idiot.

[davi]

how can something be both longer and shorter at the same time...?

I used the of the dirt bike( http://www.just-in.net/clipart/dirt/img/dirtbike.jpg ) for the whell placement, i'll try to make the front whell in closer but i'm afraid it will make it appear less...offroad.

I'm going to try to impliment more futuristic nonsense into design, so i can get away with saying that it goes 300mph

[Mad Giraffe]

This game dropped in mind...

XG3 Extreme G Racing:
http://www.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/m-xg3_gcn_ss04-jpg.jpg
http://www.impactsites2000.com/gamereviews/images/xg3_1.jpg
http://www.acclaim.com/games/xgra/devdiary/images/part2/bike3.jpg
http://www.acclaim.com/games/xgra/devdiary/images/part2/bike2.jpg

[davi]

those links are hot, thanks man, i'm trying to stay away from closed tops and 'tron'like designs.

here's what i got so far...

http://www.creatureone.com/04/superbike01d.jpg

i lengthed it, made the front 'stronger appearing, changed the backand gave it a fan of some sort.

if the anatomy of the chest/back looks odd, check out my first design, it's the same rider. My theory is that the helmet and the suit both create an aerodynamic arch, also, it's a parashoot, so if the rider does fly off for some reason he can use it to decent his...crash

[Idiot Apathy]

Originally posted by davi
how can something be both longer and shorter at the same time...?


Yeah, that's how things come out when I'm tired, I meant longer and lower to the ground.

Looking good, the rider certainly puts it into a better perspective.

[Al Ian]

I want a motor cycle like that!

[davi]

if i put the bike closer to the ground i'd be afraid it would mess up the fact that i want it to beable free fall from at least 10feet while going near top speed

[Idiot Apathy]

Ah, well that changes everything. You might want to put a built in cross that comes out and stands erect and recites a prayer when they jump 10 feet at full speed.

Ha! J/K looking forward to what is still in your mind.

[Hunger_Artist]

technical issue: at 300mph a well placed bit of gravel could take you down (assuming it was riding behind somthing)

im no expert, but maybe it should have jet thrusters somewhere too.

[davi]

http://www.allpar.com/cars/concepts/tomahawk.html

max mph = 300mph
500 horsepower viper v-10

[Idiot Apathy]

Unless I'm mistaken, and last I heard the tomahawk has never been riden. All the stats they have are simulated, like in a dynomometer.

[cartoonfox]

oh my god!! no one is going to ride that. at least not reach 300+mph. thats just crazy! no one can be that suicidal and 'ard!! :D

... makes games like 'extreme G' etc seem all that more realistic!!

[davi]

i'd ride one if it had a mounted machine gun and a plane that could pick me up for refueling.

[Idiot Apathy]

Well yeah! Who wouldn't! Tell ya what Davi, get a sidecar and I'll be your gunner.

[davi]

mmm sidecar not a bad idea for next design.

here's an update:

http://www.creatureone.com/04/superbike01e.jpg

[winjer]

I think you should sink the handlebar things into the chassis so theres like a little alcove that the guys hands go in. makes it more aerodynamical. Maybe the legs too. It would be like he has to wear the bike.

[Juice5942]

The tires look too small now. Put two dirt bike tires together and they are about equal to the overall length of the bike.

I would say don't worry too much about the 10 foot fall, if you go too much for a dirt bike feel, you'll lose the "speed" look of the bike. Dirt bikes aren't meant to go fast, just like a jeep can handle rocks, but isn't much for top end.

I like where you're taking it though. Also keep in mind the way you see the bike taking the jump. If it's going to be a long, low jump, a crotch rocket can possibly land on both wheels at once if the jump is wide enough, but chances are that once it hits that ramp, it'll tilt backwards and the rider will have to touch down on the back wheels first.

The way you have it right now, it looks like if he did that, the rear wheel might just snap off.

Also, I'm curious as to what the thing is that the rider has on his back?

[davi]

ok i'll do my best to fix the stated issues.

and juice, i'm trying to make this look like a fictional bike. i know that dirt bikes don't go 300mph, that's the point of this attempt... i'd just be drawing a bike if i didn't give it bizarre features.

[Idiot Apathy]

Just a minor suggestion and a pretty big problem.

Minor Suggestion: If you like how it looks I'd consider bringing in the part of the bike where his legs/knees meet the chassis. May not be very clear, so make an indent in the middle of the chassis where his knees meet the bike.

Pretty Big Problem: He can't touch the ground with his feet! Eek! Perhaps you should put the seat at an angle like this \ only not as sharp. Or give him training whells :P.

Looking real good davi, I'm getting excited to see the final concept.

Thanks, the idiot.

[gallon]

I just saw some Harley documentary on discovery... I had a name for you but it slipped...sorry. So, do this , check out hanover and harleys on google. They have the biggest custom fairs in Da world. Pretty cool stuff, and the new european custombuilds looks really cool and could bejust what your looking for.

Adi granov have some slimmed bikes on his site, remnant-section (http://www.sofos.com/adi/), but I guess you already looked at those.

[davi]

Idiot Apathy, your minor suggestion confuses me, but your major one makes perfect sense, thanks!

gallon: yeah that bike adi is fantastic, i wish he had more on his site..

[eviltwins]

The rider needs to be WAY lower tucked. Rear swingarm needs to be a lot longer, and there should be an airfoil of sorts to direct air away form the rear tire, as that is a primary source of drag. And on a purely technical note, you would need a hugely overdriven final gear in your trans, a numerically low final drive ratio, or a very tall tire to hit 300 MPH with a 6500 RPM rev limit :D I shift my bike at 10600 RPM's and it's considered a fairly low revving bike, when you look at the 600CC'ers that spin to 15K.

[davi]

yeah see the thing is... i haven't gone to bike school... i have no clue what half of that stuff means :(

[davi]

http://www.creatureone.com/04/superbike01g.jpg

starting to get alittle tired of working on the design. Hope, nothing is too insanely wrong to completely ruin the design of it :\

[Johannes]

Interessting thread :)
Things are looking sweet.
But I have to agree with a lot of other folks, its hard to do a fast bike and a off-road at the same time. One thing in particular I was thinking of is that the fast ones ar mayby a centimeter above ground with their air-intakes (to cool the engine I guess, Im no techie either), but that would be pretty leathal for an off road one.
One thing about dirt-bikes is they almost always got a bigger, slimmer front tire and a smaller, fatter rear, do that, that give s "instant dirt-feel" :D

[davi]

roger, i'll do that, don't expect an update soon though, i'm reformating my c drive.... all hell could break loose.

thanks again everyone for the help, spinefinger slapped me around alittle off the forum so that should help also

[Neon]

I think the main problem is that the wheels are far too small.
Try to double their size and put some spokes in the middle...

[davi]

i'll play with making them bigger but...no spokes....this isn't a bmx bike... i don't think spokes would be a good idea at 300mph

[LiL QoH]

The bike still looks very generic.. I would possibly make the windshield bigger, and I'd make the tires bigger as well

[DragonGX]

As far as the engine goes, if you're going for "realims" as far as mechanics, most motorcycles have a 1-4 cylinder motor.

The Dodge concept bike has a V10 in it...

For the type of power you want your bike ot have, you're probably goign to haev to give it a V8-V12 motor.. a 4 cylinder motor is probably not going to give you the pwer you want.. possibly if it is turbocharged, but youd have to impletment turbos into the design of the motor..

For images of what they look like, go to car parts websites, like www.jegs.com or www.summit.com

[mtomczek]

Small note here, Making the windshield bigger wont make it faster. You need to think about aerodynamics if you want it to go 300mph. think about how the air is going to flow over the front of the bike, then interact with the rider itself. And with that you need to think about applying downforce to the bike as well, if the aerodynamics arent correct, at 300mph the front of the bike is going to want to lift up and off the ground.

Another small factoid, there have been people who have tuned some of the larger liter bikes (1000cc and higher) to do near 240mph. There have been hayabusas that have hit near that. Even a yamaha R6 tops out at almost 210mph, no joke at all. (If you question me, watch the mischief 3000 dvd. In the extras they have a top speed run on an R6 where they mount a video camera in front of the speedometer, bike hits almost 210mph)

[gallon]

checked some inspiration for you , Davi...
fast bikes can be found here: http://www.feel-the-noise.com/
But I didn't find the kinda o' bike I was looking for... Here are a few I thought looked cool and hopefully fit what u are looking for:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/henrikgallon/bike3.jpg
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/henrikgallon/bike9.jpg
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/henrikgallon/bike29.jpg
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/henrikgallon/bike305_15_28.jpg
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/henrikgallon/bikep0206_3_26.jpg
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/henrikgallon/bikep0206_d3_104.jpg

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/henrikgallon/bikep0305_15_27.jpg

( mmh, if that is too much Download-time, just PM me and I'll add links instead)

[Schlo-mo]

Make the wheels bigger! Akira Style. :D

[R_M]

and round....:D smoother ride style

[Smurf]

that looks awsome except the wheels, you should fix those and than they will look way better.

Just curious but wat are you using to draw that, like what kinda pencils or whatever?

[Legato]

have you seen the bikes from "wonderful days"? give those ground clearance and they are bad ass!

http://wonderfuldays.co.kr/english/trailer.php?sound=

look at the trailer... i don't really have the server space to take screenshots and host them :(

[MSW]

Just found this place, moveing over from France's forms after upgradeing to a better PC (my old one died :P ) some of you may remeber me, I do lots of mecha and such...

Anyway, I'm a biker, and have worked for some 8 years as an mechanic...I'm no means an expert, but I have a good handle on most of it.

First things first...car engines in bikes...not something you really want to do...it's cool as a concept or prototype, but haveing ridden a 350cid 300hp Chevy V-8 powered bike...erm, it ain't very controlable, the engine alone adds some 800lbs to the total weight of the bike...and on a bike ment to go fast or off road 800lbs is typicaly twice as much wieght as you want (seriously any performance bike be it on/off road that is over about 450lbs suffers for it).

In order to promote stabilty at speed the bike wheelbase must be extended, however this also hurts the handleing makeing the bike less responceive and increaseing the turning radius...for an off road bike you want to have as much suspension travel as possable, and inorder to allow the rider the most control possable the bikes center of gravity must be rather high and just forward of the bikes midsection...

here are some stats about various classes of bikes to give you an idea of thier performance:

dirt bikes - pure off road models are powered by single cly 2 stroke gas engines with the largest (about 500cc) models makeing roughly 65hp...these bikes often weigh around 250lbs or less..and the on/off type adds a few pounds in turn signals and other requirements, plus loses the 2-stroke moter for a less powerful 4-stroke engine...performance wise these bikes can sprint to 60 in about 3 seconds or less, but they arn't built for high speeds and typicaly top out at around 140mph or less.

sportbikes - these are the race bikes..built for the street and usualy weigh less then about 400lbs..engines typicaly come in two varieties: inline 4s and V-twins (and there is a 3 cly in there too)...power wise, at the low end (600cc models) they make around 110hp...the high end (1000cc models) make around 150hp...these engines are screamers with the inline 4s typicaly haveing a redline over 12,000 rpm (my Yamaha R-6 readlines at 15,500 rpm)...performance wise these are little bullets shooting to 60 in around the 2 second mark and completeing the 1/4 mile in 10 seconds or less right off the show room floor...top speeds are limited by aerodynamics (even with thier racy looks the bikes are about as aerodynamic as a small pick-up truck, which is better then cruzers like Harleys which can have the aerodynamics of a billboard when equiped with those huge windshields)...anyway top speed of around 170-190mph

street/sport bikes - these are more or less standard bikes with a bit more sport tuneing...the sport bikes mentioned above have a lot of emphesis on handleing and cornering abilities in addition to the speed and acceleration...however these street/sport bikes arn't as focused and performance is often all over the map...a bike like the Suzuki Hiyabusa actualy fits into this catagory as it is about 100lbs overweight and with a longer wheelbase then the "true" sportbikes, however the 'busa is no performance slouch as it currently has the title of fastest production bike just hitting 200mph.
weigh is anywhere from 300 to 800+ lbs, power anywhere from 40 to 170hp, 0-60mph anywhere from about 2 - 4.5 seconds,..1/4 mile anywhere from 9 to 14 seconds...top speed anywhere from about 90 to 200 mph.

As for inspiration for a real performance on/off road bike do a search for the KTM Duke II...giveyou an idea both of what is realisticly possable, and of what such a bike would tend to look like as far as general parts layout.