CA Online Classes...considering it and could appreciate some input on software

[Jason Manley]

Heya,


We are considering running some very affordable online classes on conceptart.org with various pros around the industry. Eventually it could become a full online workshop. For now I just want to run some tests, maybe do my Color Theory class and see how the software works.

Do you all have any suggestions for online training software?

It needs to

1. screen capture real time
2. have voice capability
3. chat capability
4. record ability
5. save ability


I am looking right now but thought perhaps some of you might have taken classes in the past or that you might have your own input and suggestions for which to use.

Lemme know! I appreciate it. WIll see if this works and if so it will be learning central around these parts.


Jason

[jhofferle]

We use Breeze (now Adobe Connect) at work. A nice benefit is that the clients only need Flash, so the participants can run just about any browser/OS. It has worked pretty well for us doing presentations/training up to a few hundred people.

[Moai]

I don't know of any software to recommend, but this sounds fantastic.

[RogerAdams]

Hi Jason,

I took a couple online courses in the past, one with CGTalk.com and the other with Schoolism.com.

The CGTalk one was probably around 2006 and was more like a private forum with the instructor and other classmates. There was no video or conferencing. We read the instructor's notes and posted the assignments and received feedback and paintovers through the forum.

I took a Schoolism class in 2008 and the class structure and technology just blew me away - this is what online classes should be based on. You watch a Flash video lecture (sometimes an hour or more), upload the homework and get a 15 minute video of the instructor going over your assignment. This to me was the best thing about Schoolism. It seems simple but I learned the most from the instructor drawing over my assignment and pointing out my mistakes. To me, this is what you are really paying for. A detailed critique from a professional showing you one on one how to improve.

The Flash video lectures were huge, 1024 by 1280 resolution, and crystal clear. I still don't see that type of resolution anywhere else. None of the communication is done in realtime. I could watch lectures whenever I wanted and contact the instructor by email. I think if you were to do online classes doing anything in real time would be a huge undertaking. Just doing anything live and streaming just never works, bandwidth and time zones always seem to mess it up.

One thing I wished Schoolism did offer was the ability to download and save your instructor critiques, like when the instructor paints over your work. You could watch all the videos after your course was done for a few weeks but it would have been nice to be able to keep the paint over vids. The price can sometimes deter people but when you consider it's a 10 week course and you really feel like you've improved and gained knowledge after it' done -- it's worth it.

I hope this helps you out in some way. Good luck!

[Jason Manley]

Video streaming has improved over the years. I would hope that one of these companies has it set up to properly handle it.

Got some emails in for demos..will see. Any other input is appreciated.

We will not be doing assignment based classes at this time. It is more of a q and lecture/demo based project.

We will have threads for you to practice the teachings if you wish and the members here and instructors may participate at their convenience and desire. The pros we want to work with do not have weeks...they have hours and so we want to get the most out of it we can.


Jason

[Jacob Kobryn]

Wow... what is this? ;)

[HugeHarHar]

What kind of pricing have you been considering? And if/when you find a solid way of doing these how often would you?

This sounds fantastic though!

[Victor B]

Exciting news Jason! I have no additional suggestions, just wanted to add my "sounds awesome"

[TASmith]

This is great! I'm curious if the results or notes will be available on the forum, or only to students.

[IanE]

Jason, I've said it once and I'll say it again...

You're a good dude.

[FallenGodX11]

Wow, an online class from concept art. I would really like it. It would save money to do stuff online.

[kyurai]

hi,

the ideea you have here is great :)

and about the software to use :
- for real time image capture and chatting there is NetMeeting. i don t exactly know if you can save the captures though. But usually just for sharing the desktop it works pretty well.

- there is also Skype for voice chatting. Haven t used it in a long time, maybe now you can also share images with it. I think there should be a lot of documentation on it on the net, just google it and try it out.

- and about capturing and saving images i used Fraps a few times (made some WoW short movies). You have to be careful with it though because at very high resolutions the files are pretty big and you have to procces them again to make them smaller.

anyway, hope it helps a little :)

[Jason Manley]

Costs will be fair...but will not be cheap like the downloads, which are coming to an end here on CA very soon. The days of impulse buy priced educational materials with info people cannot get in art school easily...or if at all...(even though they pay a thousand bucks per credit hour), are coming to a close too.

I would guess that we will move to online classes in the range of 100-1000+ dollars depending on duration, amount of video, and instructor participation. Could be one day classes or could be weekly classes for months or more...we are still talking about it. Ideally CA will have daily classes just like an art school but at a considerably lower price. I rant on and on about the high price of art school. If we can find a way to offer more information with higher caliber instructors (there are many here) then we are going to do it. This is long term thinking..but is at least being thought about.

I am also looking at a membership area for CA which includes multi-pro portfolio reviews/development over time, exclusive content, and other materials. I want to keep CA the way it is now (minus cheap downloads which theft has caused us to stop), but improve the quality of services for those who really want to do things and want to access the focused attention of the top pros in the industry for longer than a quick post.

Just thoughts right now..will run some tests and see how it goes.

If you havent seen the Next-Gen Atelier thread in the finished section, to see what the students are getting out of spending time with Wes and crew each week, now is a good time. http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=157234

Will update you soon.



Jason

[Grief]

jason do you mean that the videos which are already for sale will no longer be available or merely that MB and crew will stop subsequent future material in this fashion?

it'd be a shame if there was no longer a legitimate means to acquire these videos. in the very least have them available to purchase via request, i'd hate to have 'missed' the window of opportunity to buy these.

[petitemistress]

membership area? does that mean we're moving into the way of the somethingawful forums (sign up fee and the such)? I wouldn't be too bothered if it's what it takes to finance CA as it has grown pretty large from what I understand, but please as Grief said, leave the downloads on, or keep doing them, at least for the people who do buy them... they're wonderful!

[Mebiusu]

Jason,
This is a great idea. One of the things I love about this community is our commitment to gaining and passing on knowledge to one another. The first thing that occurs to me is how to extend the longevity of each course beyond its premiere?
There may be any number of reasons why what I am about to suggest will not work, but here is my idea nonetheless…
Perhaps at the end of the course, the instructor could hand pick a few of the graduates who are deemed to have successfully grasped the concepts taught and then, these artists could act in the role of instruction assistants to future students of the course. At the end of each course, simply have the original instructor review the new crop of students to provide a new list of potential assistants. Create some sort of incentive for the graduates to assist, such as a percentage of the tuition or perhaps discounts on other CA courses which these graduates may wish to avail themselves of.
In this way each course could live on in perpetuity beyond the direct involvement of the creator of each course.
Just an idea.

[The Crazy Dude SRD]

Jason, while I find the concept of online classes to be an awesome addition... I have to ask if you are contemplating removing the downloading of video (which I'm assuming is due to server costs as to provide the necessary bandwidth for the extreme upload demand that they each can take and the continued theft perpetrated by fucking moronic sons of bitches) are you still going to provide them through an alternate format such as purchasing a dvd?

As grief said, it be a shame to have no legitimate way of collecting the videos... As it would be almost impossible for me to come up with the $500+ bones in such a short period of time, especially for my income level and situation. Personally I don't care whether or not I have to pay S&H... but if you completely discontinue the videos you are only hurting those whom want what you are giving and wish to contribute in some manner benificial to this great forum.

( a side edit here; I am not at all dismissing the online classes, as I am extremely intrigued by how these will work... I'll have to think on this before I can say anything that would be possibly useful)

[Rist]

I took part in Schoolism a while back and thing I hated the most was to not be able to see the videos after the class had finished. Do you think there is any way to allow the student to see these videos after the class has finished? This was done with BUZZ 3D if I remember, where they sold the class video's separate for those who were interested in the techniques, but not the tutor interaction.

Another thing, which you might not succumb to, is the student to student interaction. A forum is useful for this, and I guess voice chat would be too. But as you already have this I am guessing these will be included.

One video streaming service I particularly like is that of Lynda.com. Their videos are large resolution and still play at a smooth rate. The time bar was easy to use too, similar to Quicktime (which is what they used I think).

An interesting way to interact with the tutor could be to use video chat on AIM or similar software. This would make the interaction more personal, as if you were in the same room.

Looking forward to these classes, not looking forward to the stoppage of downloadable content.

[Muz]

Time to save up and buy those vids quick then....

Sucks that its coming to an end but i guess there is nothing that we can do :/.

Really cool idea for the online classes!

[HugeHarHar]

I guess I have been putting off getting the vids for to long anyways.

I do plan on trying to be part of this, sorry I don't have any suggestions to add though.

[Penumbra]

The news of the discontinuing of downloads seems at odds with the recent call for video submissions. What has changed? It is a shame that the only ones who will suffer are the legitimate students. I know a great deal of the people on here are just starting out and unable to afford much more than the downloads.

Having said that, I think the intructional direction is a good and natural evolution of the CA mission and I think many would be excited by the prospect. Discontinuing the downloads seems premature, but granted I don't know the fiscal circumstances.

In any case I will continue to support and advocate the site to the uninitiated.

[janni]

that you're planning to sack the downloads comes as a real surprise. i bought almost all of them (missing half a dozen i guess). to me it was a perfect way to support this place.

what will happen to the videos that were already announced (djurdjevic, hpx, black frog)? to see those beauties canceled would be a real bummer...

the online classes are a nice idea.

i wouldn't do live streaming classes and / or lectures. you would be pretty much limit yourself to the us-market and shut out people living in other timezones (like europe *hint hint* :) )

i agree that the way schoolism does it, is the way to do it. i think it's future proof. and as far as i know they don't suffer from piracy cause they use some nice flash streaming technology (probably somthing similar to what hulu uses, not youtube) which you can watch multiple times but not download.
the best thing about it is is that you get maximum freedom for the students and teachers without loosing the personal interaction and classroom feeling. and that every student is guarenteed personal critiques justifies the prices.
the freedom to watch your lecture and citique at a time of your liking would enable you to target working professionals or semi-professionals over the whole globe. the benefits are realy endless... i dont wanna sit at home with a broken internet connection or slow transfer rates to the u.s. because some backbone is down somwhere or whatever might happen during a live stream.

considering the tech for future streams or even live streams: a p2p based distribution technology will (probably) be the way to do it. something like http://www.p2p-next.org

[Tetsuo]

Jason - I used to work for On2 technologies not too long ago as a video engineer. They are the creators of the vp series of codecs which are now widely used in a lot of cheap flash applications. They ( I believe ) partnered with adobe to bring flash video to the masses. You may want to look into their stuff.

www.on2.com

-TeT-

[N D Hill]

That's too bad to hear that the downloads will done. As for online classes, that sounds amazing and it's something I can very easily see myself participating in. Would you be using some sort of remote conferencing software for live demos? Right now, my day job has me training doctors and their staff on using our Medical Records software. We use programs like mikogo.com and oneeko.com however Vyew.com, which we just started testing, shows a lot of promise. It allows us to host demos on our own stations and grant others presenter status, essentially giving them the reigns. It has voice chat but it's done in a manner where a user must raise their hand, so to speak, before the admin gives them the floor. For our purposes, it's been great. As far as I know, you can record sessions. I haven't figured that part out yet. It is both Mac and PC compatible.

For the record, I would not mind of CA began offering some sort of premium services and expanded the whole idea of online mentoring. I'd definitely take advantage of it.

[nicehighs]

http://online.academyart.edu/ look into this for research

[TASmith]

About your downloads, I'm waiting for an external harddrive to arrive in the mail, but I intend to buy and download at least 3 of them. Hold off on deleting those for at least a couple days, and you'll be around $100 richer. I'll try to start tonight, once my son's asleep.

[janni]

I don't think the downloads that are already available will be deleted. at least they shouldn't be.

if there's one way to make sure your content gets pirated, it is making it not available.

[tandy1000]

I would really love to take these classes over the summer... Hope you get it all figured out Jason!

The only programs I've used are ventrilo pretty much so I can't be of much help, sorry for the useless post.

[smugbug]

http://online.academyart.edu/ look into this for research

The problem with Academy of Art U's online courses is that there is no streaming video. The student receives video demos by the course CDs that are mailed before each term.

I know, since I was an online student there. Maybe they've changed this since my last term (last Spring) with them? Anywhoos, I gathered from Jason's original post that real-time video is needed - am I correct?

While I really like AAU's online system (never had a problem with it), that was the one thing they didn't have - real-time streaming. However all that, this (CA online classes) would be very cool.

Oh, I recall an Entertainment Art Academy online course demo where there was real-time chat and video involved. I cannot for the life of me remember what software was used.

[Noah Bradley]

Sounds like a great idea. One-on-one time with pros is really valuable.

And it's a real bummer about the downloads. To prepare myself for that, I just spent way too much money on some downloads. Thankfully, they're the sort of purchase you can't regret, when you think of how stinkin' cheap they are for what you're getting. Dang shame y'all have to stop them. Any chance there could be some sort of "secure members only" download service? Like where long-time members could still get downloads? Smaller group to deal with, and probably more trust-worthy.

[Jason Manley]

membership area? does that mean we're moving into the way of the somethingawful forums (sign up fee and the such)? I wouldn't be too bothered if it's what it takes to finance CA as it has grown pretty large from what I understand, but please as Grief said, leave the downloads on, or keep doing them, at least for the people who do buy them... they're wonderful!


CA will be as it is now. We are going to offer some premium features that will improve things around here, and allow people to reach those of skill and accomplishment for more than just a brief post, star rating, comment or private message. We want to improve the educational program while at the same time support the growth of the community.

[Jason Manley]

jason do you mean that the videos which are already for sale will no longer be available or merely that MB and crew will stop subsequent future material in this fashion?

it'd be a shame if there was no longer a legitimate means to acquire these videos. in the very least have them available to purchase via request, i'd hate to have 'missed' the window of opportunity to buy these.


All downloads will stop. We will be doing streaming videos here from now on. We cannot continue to download due to all the torrent problems they have had. It is a shame that people stole from CA so much when we tried to give art education to the masses for near free. I just don't get it. But alas...such is life right? Our only solution is to limit the torrenting by allowing videos to stream instead. At least that limits the torrenting to those who wish to try to get around the stream with recording software. The new system limits some of that by turning off their screen capture but it does not stop all of them. It has to help. Not much more to do than that. That part we can control by standard email torrent removal methods. We can no longer transfer the videos via download for the users to keep though. Too many users steal from CA when we do that. We just cannot anymore.

To those who support ca with these vids...I really appreciate. I know everyone who is here to learn with integrity feel the same way. Thank you. We have a lot more upgrades to do, servers to get, and other matters that have to be covered so the new way of teaching and training will be going forward. Streaming will be more expensive, however, as much as double of what all videos are currently. The cost of the system is far more than what we do now.

The new stuff we are up to for education is going to be killer though.

[aaro_n]

http://www.mogulus.com/


a few of us in IRC have used this, and its not that bad for real time. I'm sure you guys have great up speed too

[Brashen]

Whats the ETA on when those Videos are going to be removed? At least give those of us who've haven't had the opportunity to get their hands on them to do so.

[tandy1000]

All downloads will stop. We will be doing streaming videos here from now on. We cannot continue to download due to all the torrent problems they have had. It is a shame that people stole from CA so much when we tried to give art education to the masses for near free. I just don't get it. But alas...such is life right? Our only solution is to limit the torrenting by allowing videos to stream instead. At least that limits the torrenting to those who wish to try to get around the stream with recording software. The new system limits some of that by turning off their screen capture but it does not stop all of them. It has to help. Not much more to do than that. That part we can control by standard email torrent removal methods. We can no longer transfer the videos via download for the users to keep though. Too many users steal from CA when we do that. We just cannot anymore.

To those who support ca with these vids...I really appreciate. I know everyone who is here to learn with integrity feel the same way. Thank you. We have a lot more upgrades to do, servers to get, and other matters that have to be covered so the new way of teaching and training will be going forward. Streaming will be more expensive, however, as much as double of what all videos are currently. The cost of the system is far more than what we do now.

The new stuff we are up to for education is going to be killer though.

I just thought of this idea.

What if you uploaded the videos to a site similar to vimeo and set videos to friends only. People who pay for the download will be added to that friends list.

Problems I see with this are:
1.) There can still be the problem of people giving away their accounts but I doubt that would be a problem since that account would get it's password changed instantly by individuals who would wish to keep that account to themselves.
(There would be less of a chance of users giving away the password to their accounts)
2.) Ripping the flash video off the site and then torrenting it anyways.
(You might be able to upload it on a platform that isn't recordable? other than an actual camcorder recording off the monitor.)
3.) You would have to make a separate account for each new video, unless the site has some option that allow you to choose and pick which videos can be viewed for each specific viewer.
4.) Hackers getting the account/password and then distributing the videos to all.

Also, people can view how many others have bought the download. What do you think?

[petitemistress]

CA will be as it is now. We are going to offer some premium features that will improve things around here, and allow people to reach those of skill and accomplishment for more than just a brief post, star rating, comment or private message. We want to improve the educational program while at the same time support the growth of the community.

I understand the problem Jason, really. I might be alone in this suggestion, but I'd much rather pay a mandatory basic subscription fee to access CA (I heard you were working on making payment methods that work for my country available, thank you CA team for that :) )and make the premium a pricer package, than see the downloadable content go down.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I pay 50$ a months for 4gigs of dwld/bandwith. no, I am not kidding. so streaming videos over and over will be impossible for me, not to mention really really slow... I'd honestly rather pay a subscription than be deprived. It would also limit spamming and weed out the trolls... I don't know, am I alone in this mindset? ._.

[Slash]

History has shown that attempts to limit piracy only harms legitimate consumers, while the pirates don't seem to have any problems getting what they want. This goes for movies, music and games, and I'm sorry to say that it will probably go for attempts to limit piracy of the tutorial videos also.

But then again, I'm sure you're aware of this already, since you're moving towards an online subscription-based setup. MMO games can't be pirated, and I'm sure thats why you want to move in a similar direction with the video downloads.

But please keep in mind that streaming online services aren't a feasible option for many people, like petite mentioned above. And streaming videos can just as easily be pirated. Also, regions with gimped internet access are often also regions where this kind of education would not be accessible anywhere else. And as far as online live classes go, keep in mind that classroom time in one part of the world would be 4AM or 6PM or 10PM in other parts of the world.

That being said, i am exited to see what will come of the online instruction things. But please also consider offering the current (and possibly future) downloads in a different form for those that don't have streaming as a viable option. Options could be offering all downloads on a data dvd for the price of the combined downloads, or a series of dvds with fewer videos on each for those who can't fork up the cash for all videos at once. This doesn't have to be a fancy and expencive production, a paper sleeve with the dvd would suffice, since its about the content and not the presentation.

/2 cents

PS: I like the idea of a premium subscription feature, I will definately join up for that!
PPS: An ETA for the downloads to go down would be appreciated. The intuos 4 and a broken down video card, plus the upcoming workshop has made my budgeting very tight at the moment. I just can't fork up the cash for all the downloads I'm missing at the moment. :(
PPPS: I'm guessing that the streaming feature will only require you do pay once per video, right? I'm privileged enough to be able to use the streaming feature when it comes up, and i most probably will. But it would have to be a system where i pay once per video, then log in to watch whichever movie i want (that i have paid for of course) whenever i want.

[Mike Frank]

Its a shame about the downloads - have you ever considered going with sponsors and ads for the videos? Don't know how hard it would be to make that profitable, but it could be another way to get some revenue without piracy being an issue.


Or what if you could pitch it as a tv show.. I'd watch you guys over Bob Ross and "Joy of Watercolors" any day..

[jhofferle]

I'd watch you guys over Bob Ross and "Joy of Watercolors" any day..

ConceptArt meets Joy of Painting...

"Our hellhound needs a friend. Let's give him a happy little fleshbeast buddy..."

[Sidharth Chaturvedi]

Well... sucks royally about the downloads, but it's understandable, and even if the price of all the content doubled it would still be an insane bargain. Can't wait for all this online education stuff though, it sounds awesome!

[Duq]

removed, because I see CA as to valuable an asset to get banned from. I do not support piracy, but I can see how my post could be interperted like that.

[Kamikazebob]

When are you cutting out the downloads? I just got back home from Uni and barring me finding a job I'll have to start grabbing them as I can.

[Mike Frank]

Duq thats the thing that I think is great about sponsorship.. you get the best of both worlds. Look at hulu.com.. awesome site, easy to watch anything you want and the ads keep everybody happy. Little revenue for the authors and a little bit of advertising for the sponsors.

Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to do some product placement .. wacom tablets, painting apps, 3d programs, pencils, paints, sketch paper, etc..

Thing is that making videos ain't cheap by any means.. even a low budget one camera shoot takes some time in planning, traveling, shooting, logging, editing... If you're not breaking even or better then you're better off not starting honestly. If that all boils down to piracy getting in the way I would be pissed..

[HugeHarHar]

Duq. Get ready to get owned. I mean seriously. First off the videos are 15 dollars. Oh man! That's cheaper than buying a new movie, a full tank of gas, even a new sketchbook. It's like two meals at a fast food place.

Second you're promoting piracy on a thread made by the big man himself. Aside from pirating these videos being a slap in the face to those who made it, posting that comment in this thread was just plain dumb.

Seriously.

[Duq]

Yeah, after reading the "banned thread" I see its impossible to discuss ways to deal with piracy in a positive way. Anyway, there where some interesting talks from some very innovative people at the last BAFTA about digital distribution and piracy and how to use it to their advantage.

And I to would be up for a subscriber model. I would love to financially support this site, without being forced to buy training vids to do so. Dont get me wrong, I love the vids. But I wouldnt mind investing 100% of what I give into the community, and the vids simply have production costs, low prices, etc, so alot of the money vanishes there.

[TASmith]

I just spent $85 on your downloads, maybe not much, but alot considering my Eastern European salary. I'd like to buy some more when I get back from my trip to Sweden (next Thurs) Please keep them up a bit longer. It'll be profitable for you.

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Yup, there is no such thing as an "impulse buy" when you're living on $7.50 (US) an hour. I was supposed to be commissioning a painting from a friend for another friends housewarming gift, but that will have to be delayed again so I can get the last download I really felt was a "must have". (That makes me feel like such a selfish jerk :/ ) The others I wanted...well I guess I just won't get to see them.

I used to volunteer for the Salvation Army...great cause, dirt cheap merchandise, but that didn't stop people from stealing from them for kicks. I feel really torn at the moment because I really can't blame Mr. Manley if he feels personally insulted that people would steal from him, his friends, and the entire community...but it hurts that the honest among us are getting punished too.

Looking forward to the new features, and crossing my fingers that I'll be able to afford them.

[Jason Manley]

I just spent $85 on your downloads, maybe not much, but alot considering my Eastern European salary. I'd like to buy some more when I get back from my trip to Sweden (next Thurs) Please keep them up a bit longer. It'll be profitable for you.


Thank you. We need to raise money for the new server an site tech and this goes a long way. Much thanks. Really.

[James Kei]

This won't even be a challenge for pirates or hackers.
There is already consumer based software that acts as an external "overlay", and can record anything that is displayed on your screen and anything that travels though your speaker wires.

I think the better approach would be:
-Increase the price of the downloads to $25 (still a bargain)
-decrease the artists cut to 35/65. Don't worry, we will survive.
-Make the community well aware that it's very survival depends on supporting the downloads.
-Spend more money on outreach, advertising, and marketing. There are many potential, honest consumers that don't know these downloads exist.

The online classes are a good idea as well, and will bring in a little extra. Just be aware that less professionals will want to contribute their time in this way.

In the long run, if you gather enough fans of the product, support them with easy to obtain and hassle free content that can be viewed offline, morality will carry the cost of the servers.
The pirates can have their slice, as long as we can survive on whatever crumbs they leave us. I'm totally fine with that.

Also, as a last resort, I petition for littering the front page with flashing advertisements to gain revenue before deciding to shut down the whole community.
Even if it gives me seizures, It won't bother me a bit. :)
Subscription based access to the forums will fail. Trust me on this.

[ArtZealot]

I think online classes are a great idea. I've been wanting to take some prefrably advanced-ish refresher classes, but there are no art schools that give the kind of material i want, nearby where i live, and the only online art school stuff that i've found is mostly crap.

Online classes through you guys would be perfect though, i'd definitely sign on to the month to month ones. As far as online teaching software, i've heard that Blackboard (http://www.blackboard.com/) and GoToMeeting (https://www2.gotomeeting.com/?Portal=www.gotomeeting.com)work well.
It's sad to hear about the downloads going away. I've bought and downloaded damn near every one of them and have learned a hell of a lot of useful info. Best of luck with this new idea, i support it one hundred fifty percent.

[jadefoodog]

man i havent been here in a while because of peoples attitudes and such i guess theres alot going on

me and my friends have been painting with each other long distance via ustream

it has video sound chat and other features but i dunno if you can block people out . it may be worth a look.

[Rist]

My Uni has Blackboard, but it seems rubbish which may be down to the guy who set it up?

[Jason Manley]

Thanks James. I am not concerned about hackers (we are most likely distributing through Vbulletin on secure servers). Both are updated regularly and holes are filled quickly. We shall see. Right now I would not bet against CA on this. Just the fact that people will have to screen capture will limit the problem.

Sent you a PM.


J

[Brun]

This seems like a brilliant Idea,

online classes will save me a lot of time AND money

thx once again Jason

[Slash]

One thing to consider is that when you stream a video it is stored temporarily on your hard drive. There's a host of programs and firefox plugins that use this fact to save streaming media off of sites like youtube etc.

I'm sceptical to streaming content on principle. I don't like to have the music companies tell me that i can only listen to my media in certain formats, and that i can't use it in the way i want. If i buy a cd i would want to put the songs on my hard drive or ipod for my convenience. Restrictive DRM schemes only push me to find measures to circumvent it for my personal use.

I would probably bend these principles in the case of CA downloads, since its a bargain for high quality education. But i would need some assurance that if something were to happen, ie the service is (cod forbid) unsuccessful and too costly to run the content you've paid for would be available as a download. Also, if i am to be perfectly honest, i would probably download the streamable content to my hard drive. Streaming high definition video is slow for me, even i if i have a decent connection, and when i watch the tutorial videos i like to skip around, jumping to parts i wanna watch again. If i wanna jump back and forward on a streaming video i have to let the whole thing load to avoid buffering. I also like to play the videos on my tv. Saying that i'll probably download it for my own convenience doesn't by any stretch mean that i'll be uploading it anywhere or contributing to piracy. I love this site and i wouldn't want to do anything to harm it.

[Brashen]

As James said Ads will help a lot in maintaining the site. But please only art related ads and their hardware/ software should be advertised. I'd rather not find "XXX ART PORN AND DISNEY CARTOON SEX" splayed across the site.

[Qitsune]

Well I know Adobe does most of it's money from corporate clients (studios etc) because students and individual non pro artists usually can't/won,t buy their stuff. It's illegal but it's a fact that they have to put up with. How about having corporate access for studios to the educational material put up by CA. I tried to convince my employer to get the downloads but they were a bit queasy about the downloadble format and stuff, but how about giving access to a bunch of employees for a subscription fee, or give access to users based at a given URL. If they can sponsor workshops, they certainly can afford quality CA education. My studio is looking into training their artists more in the artsy side of the job (instead of the tech side) and the local resources are not always up to the task.

[Jason Manley]

Yeah I know some peeps prefer to have the files. Unfortunately that cannot work anymore. The only way for me to put a stop to the problem is to do what I am doing now and I hope that the people here would rather see us keep ca moving forward than backward.

music wise, I use rhapsody all the time. Its streaming. I don't care because I can get it whenever i want from any computer I am on. It is a log in based system, just as CA's will be. Sure some people don't like it. For those of you who want to have the files, you are going to have to find another source for such things. It is no longer going to be ConceptArt.Org. For those that want great info, cheaper than they can get it anywhere else, with artists not available anywhere else, then CA is the spot. It is what it is.

[Slash]

Lets hope those other sources aren't gonna be torrents of the streams. I really hope you manage to find a solution that we can be happy with, despite the scepticism people are having towards the streaming content. I really hope your efforts will cut down on the piracy.

[Sorknes]

Ok, needless to say, I'm interested in whatever classes MB and CA would put online.

For these classes to meet any minimum requirment and still bringing in a little moneyz after throwing them online I take it that they'll be available for a while after putting them up, if not forever. Putting them together and selling them as a package after finishing a "season" or wahtever might be an idea, I dunno. Like the dvd's already out there.

Honestly, I don't care how and where and who and when, if I get them. I honestly prefers downloads that I can put on my own little dvd for my own use though, as I'm not necessarily working where my stationary computer is right now.

[Jason Manley]

Lets hope those other sources aren't gonna be torrents of the streams. I really hope you manage to find a solution that we can be happy with, despite the scepticism people are having towards the streaming content. I really hope your efforts will cut down on the piracy.


Thanks Slash. Me too.

I do think that if we do have the streaming it will at least make it less of an impulse decision to put the stuff up and screw the community. People need to think before they act and streaming requires a bit more premeditation as they have to download or use the screen capture, save and compress the big ass file and waste time in their day just to screw CA. Having the vid is just a drag and drop. That is the biggest problem with the downloads.

[petitemistress]

All I keep hearing when this is brought up is "If you had met Jason, you'd know he can do it". I haven't met you yet Jason, but I look forward to it in the european workshop this summer (hopefully). You've done a lot for this community, as have a large chunk of its users. I wont be able to stream for technical reasons, but till then I guess I'll retract my protests (though i have to admit not entirely convinced :P ) and transfer some money to Slash to get the downloads I can while I can. I'll "have some faith" and see how it unfolds.

Ridd me of a doubt please... is it okay to share those downloads with one another (in a couple)? :sadcheerleader: like after he sends me the link, can he download it for himself too or does he have to buy 2 copies?

[jhofferle]

I think a lot of people are focusing on the negative aspects of this change and not considering the benefits. Being able to ask your instructor a question is a huge plus over recorded instruction.

When it comes to the videos being streamed, if it's done properly I can't see it being an issue for anyone other than those with poor internet connections. I was very skeptical of Netflix's streaming movies when they released that feature, but it has worked out very well for me. I am able to watch a ton of movies that I wouldn't pay to rent, but I wouldn't mind seeing. The price point of the monthly membership is low enough that it's not worth the effort to record the movies.

Everyone is just concerned with what they are losing because all the news has been about what is being taken away with few details about the replacement. I suggest as least waiting for more information to be released and giving it a chance before proclaiming the downfall of ConceptArt.

[Jason Manley]

werd. I actually watch more of the streaming netflix or hulu stuff than I do by watching normal netflix. Works great for me...both sites...and I watch on wifi in a room farthest from my router.

[aaro_n]

sucks that a lot of freeloaders had to punish us, oh well. **pumped** for the ca school though :drinkup:

[Serpian]

What? European workshop??

[Jason Manley]

What? European workshop??


Yep, we will know monday.

:)

Tick...tock....thanks for the reality check! I can't wait for the creative escape. Good stuff coming. Much thanks to Marko and Andrew and Melissa this time around. They are rocking putting all this together with me.

[Ryuartyi]

I can't wait to see this up. Just like the downloads I will be supporting this once I get some type of financial support.

Trying to find a job is really hindered when you're moving in three months... Have fun with this Jason.

[Zaknafain]

You could start uploading tons of fake torrents, like 2 GB of garbage and random data.
Maybe even encourage the community in participating. If enough people participate I'm pretty sure it would just be to damn annoying to try downloading those things... Trying to find the one working torrent out of 50 fake ones...

As for streaming content for 25 $: I bought a couple of downloads and dvds until now, but I'm not sure if I'm ever going to spend 25$ on streamingcontent.

I learned a lot from conceptart.org. But to be honest all the workshops i attended, dvds and downloads together didn't teach me nearly as much as I got for free from this community. And thats the reason why I'm still willing to support conceptart.org with money: because the good stuff is for free.

Again coming back to my suggestion: The real thing about conceptart.org is the community. Thats why i think the best (and probably only) way is to solve this problem is with a community effort. Mass decoying ftw.

[bartdeco]

Jason, have you considered asking Jonathan Hardesty about the software he uses for his ClassicalArtOnline.com classes? He's been using it for a while, now - maybe he could offer some insight on the subject.

bart

[Jason Ross]

The only problem that I can see that may need to be addressed is that you can download streaming content with "realplayer" as an .flv file.

[George Abraham]

The "donate" feature on this forum is only visible after visiting the sponsors section.

I was going to suggest it but then I saw it there. The more convenient you make something the better. Allot of deals and stuff goes down the drain just because of the big "C".

Us humans are not the ideal even if we have ideals and think in ideal ways we don't always act that way when faced with a situation so you have to work in natural human favour in order to get ahead.

I'd donate a few of my rands if it's super easy.

Rich dad poor dad's triangle: Quality, Price, Convenience. You either pay for quality or convenience If you don't sell after having high quality and convenience your price is too high.
If people go for alternatives when you know your quality is high then you know it's either inconvenient or the price is to high and obviousely people don't like frustration even if it's cheap so whatever you sell or software you use it needs to be friendly.

[Rist]

Why is everyone uptight about spending $25 on streaming content? That content will be attached to your account until the website gets destroyed with everyone else in 2012. As Jason mentions, you are buying the rights to the information rather than for the 'bling' of having a collection of videos. If you are too cheap to pay for education then don't buy it.

[George Abraham]

Not uptight. Just in a personal financial squeeze but still would like to contribute.

I'm sure there are lots of folk that would like to contribute even if their personal or other financial factor is limiting.

I'm just suggesting something that could maximize support for the maintanance here.

I'll donate One THOUSAND Zim Dollars. How'z that?

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. But the donate link is screwed.

[aylap]

It really sucks that the downloads are going to go down...of course as you know we prefer having the files right on our computers, but you've gotta do what you need to do, and I'll still support CA with whatever I can. I've learned and improved so much from this site, I've always found this place the most help for any topic I can think of! I can't wait to see the new things that get put up!

I'm sure it's not a lot to you guys, but I just bought the new download and two DVDs for a total of $100 today. I hope it can help you guys at least some...I want to support ConceptArt and Massive Black with whatever I've got, but right now I'm putting myself through college, I don't have a job and it doesn't look like I can get one until after August...I'd love to buy all of your downloads and anything else I could or even just donate, but my money's pretty tight right now. Like I said before, I can't wait for the new content to come out, and be sure that I'll definitely buy and help whenever and however I can! :)