waiting to paint?

[JParrilla]

hey I am curious as to what you guys think about painting in relation to drawing. Some people say that painting should be held off on until you can draw really well. I tend to think that The sooner you start to paint, the sooner youll get better. Yes Its true that if you cant understand value and proportion and everything else with a pencil, those problems will only follow you to painting. But I feel like as long as you dont neglect drawing while you paint, like lets say spend 75 percent of your art time drawing and 25 percent painting, then you really cant be hurting yourself. I feel like your painting skill will improve as your drawing skill does. What do you guys think?

[Black Spot]

Sometimes it is easier to see values and proportions when painting. Do both.

[Noah Bradley]

Harold Speed, in one of his books, recommended studying both simultaneously. He didn't like the separation between drawing and painting in schools, either. His recommended course of studies was into Form, Value, and Color at the same time... I think (been a little bit since I read it). :) I thought it sounded nice.

[JParrilla]

yep ive read Speeds books and he does believe this. Thats kind of what gave me the idea. It really does make sense. Yet ateleirs make students draw for like years or something before touching paint right?

[Hyskoa]

You can do it both ways.
Pick up painting and drawing at the same time or start with drawing and progress in painting later on.

First method will give you two methods of problem solving the different mediums, sometimes adding to eachother if they happen to overlap in functionality.
The second method will make sure that your style of painting flows forth from your drawing method as a natural progression. So if you become better in that drawing method, you become better in painting.

It's a personal choice, but usually, if you have 3-5 years of free time to learn, use option 2. Less => option 1. Since people will more likely pay for a version worked out in color (painted)

[Flake]

Joe, you were asking these same questions last year.

Stop overthinking it, go paint something.

It might be cool or it might suck. Either way, you now have x hours more painting experience than you did.

[JParrilla]

Flake - yes I know but when I asked back then.. it was because I really wanted to know for myself. This thread was just trying to get opinions from others to see what they thought about it.. and if they thought the Atelier method made sense. I stated in the beginning that I thought you should do both together and not wait.

[DavePalumbo]

I think it can be taken too far when setting up stages of learning (another common example, perhaps related, is saying that you CAN NOT play with color until you "master" value). I understand the reasoning behind it, but it tends to confine the student to a very strict rule-based system of thinking which can be very limiting and hard to break down the road.

On the other hand, you can't do a good representational painting with poor drawing skills. That can frustrate some and convince them that painting is too hard, when the reality is that they just need to continue developing their drawing. I think as long as that's understood (the importance of drawing skills to painting) it's probably beneficial to practice both together, because one strengthens the other. The more you understand and the more confidence and experience you gather, the better off you'll be.

[JParrilla]

I think it can be taken too far when setting up stages of learning (another common example, perhaps related, is saying that you CAN NOT play with color until you "master" value). I understand the reasoning behind it, but it tends to confine the student to a very strict rule-based system of thinking which can be very limiting and hard to break down the road.

On the other hand, you can't do a good representational painting with poor drawing skills. That can frustrate some and convince them that painting is too hard, when the reality is that they just need to continue developing their drawing. I think as long as that's understood (the importance of drawing skills to painting) it's probably beneficial to practice both together, because one strengthens the other. The more you understand and the more confidence and experience you gather, the better off you'll be.

that makes perfect sense

[ask maurice]

DavePalumbo is on target. Old world artisans drilled their apprentices with drawing (as well as surface prep and grinding colors) to standardize the trade and many schools have adopted this practice from that. Because it requires practice to learn to handle paint properly, you should attempt painting small pieces to gain experience while comparing the tonal similarities of color with your drawings. Yes color is an entirely different world.




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[CCThrom]

you can't do a good representational painting with poor drawing skills. That can frustrate some and convince them that painting is too hard, when the reality is that they just need to continue developing their drawing

Looking back, I think this happened to me... now as I'm starting to pick up more painting, it feels frustrating and I wish I'd already spent that time with it.

[dose]

If you really want to paint you should do it. Eventually, though, you'll probably realize you need to go back and work on your drawing. This process may happen several times- every time I "level up" in painting, it reveals new deficiencies in my drawing.