The days of downloads on CA are coming to an end. (Matter Resolved. Thread Closed).

[spaztastic]

hey instead of critiquing and bitching about Jasons decisions and motives why don't we support them, you never know. The streaming vids may be way better than any one thought possible. We might even be able to do live interaction ones? that would be way cooler. cause then you could ask questions about something in particular instead of just wondering. so if the vids are still available by the 15th June I am gonna get some more. If not I will probably have to wait until they come out on DVD. I don't have as much free time to just sit and watch the live stream as I would like.

Hey Jason will there be live pause? like on Tivo?

[XanaChama]

I'm of the thought that things shouldn't be given away for free, generally speaking. The real world doesn't really work that way and it actually contributes to the problem we're having. If you're gonna give something away for free, you should ask something back as matter of principle. At least in exchange, give others what you've been given. Arguments like 'you'll never win against piracy', 'this will fail' 'I predict the apocalypse for CA' ultimately flies in the face of what this website is about and while in some ways criticism helps, it's supporting the fundamental problem.

You should support the art community, support it's principles, try to represent what it's done for you and not just take that and not give something back. Hell, who knows, you contributing and becoming better in your sketchbook and getting uber awesome might convince someone else to get a download. They want be like you and create better art, so why wouldn't that happen. Leave a review if you download, who knows, maybe you will rub off onto others.

Do you want to continue to exist in a world where your artistic efforts have little value and people steal from you? Do you care after all those hours of work if you receive little if any reimbursement. Then why do people persist to steal from other artists, I don't know. If these people had their priorities straight to begin with, this wouldn't be a problem. Sure, we live in a world where that kind of thing is validated and OK. But then here you've been presented with a problem, how do we solve it? Instead some of us are saying things will continue this way no matter what we do... such pessimists we are as artists. Being an artist is one of the most expensive jobs you can ever have. Do you pay for that pen and PC at your desk job and everything else you have to do to get your job done? I don't know about you, but I don't work for free, I've invested too much time and money into my skills and I have books and supplies to buy.

I still support opening a Paypal account for donations. I can't be the only one who feels like you're somewhat obligated to give back some of what you've been given. It may not contribute much, but it will be something.

[Mikko K]

I'd like to see an option of a flat monthly/yearly fee based premium membership that would allow me to stream all the videos. I don't really like PayPal, but wouldn't mind subscribing using my credit card.

[spaztastic]

I agree I wouldn't mind subscribing if I was able to watch the vids anytime too. you might be able to have different levels of membership.

EX: Free membership where you buy the each stream separately,
Silver where you can get so many per month free with a monthly member ship,
Gold where you pay for a year and get so many a month free....
Platinum or Lifetime membership where you pay one lump sum for ever and then small payments once a year for the upkeep of the streams.
it's just a thought and may or may not be worth while.

Xana I agree with you, nothing in life comes free, but it's nice when it's offered.
another thing that might be helpful, is if you had people to volunteer there time and talents for the site even more, like 5-6 hrs a week or so. I don't mean in the general forums i mean helping to promote the site and artists, helping to catch bugs in the system. Maybe even more artists making video tutorials?

well i am out of ideas but if any of these help, sweet!

[Jason Manley]

btw...got some tests back today for the online education stuff and they are crystal clear, smooth as butter at full HD. Ran a test from Amsterdam to Austin and it worked reallllly well. Settings were blurry but I got that tweaked today and is now clear as day. More tests tonight. Yay!

[kraal]

i know we need to just wait....... but have you considered a flat rate for a month of streaming.... i mean pay x amount of dollars to watch any vid you want that month?

[LosPescados]

I still like to have a DVD in my hands however I do understand the reason why you guys are going to 'show' your DVD's through streaming.

This might be a useless tip (MB and CA will have some great programmers in their team) but I'm gonna say it anyway:
Make sure your streaming software is a self written one (programmed) or a really rare one
(fe: http://www.3dbuzz.com; uses a non downloadable streaming software).
Because the common streaming software/websites (such as youtube.com / familyguyx.com ... )
are really easy to download the moves/clips posted there, which were supposed for streaming.

I hope you have something from this advice.

PS; sorry for my English, I'm having trouble finding the right words to express what I'm willing to say right now.

[Sascha Thau]

I still support opening a Paypal account for donations.

I second this.

Just spent approximately 150-170 Dollars in the last days on some DL Videos and I'm more than willing to pay/donate more money if I get jobs based on the techniques I learned by the videos.

Anyway - hope I could help a little bit. I know it isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

[Gautham]

I'm quite surprised to see so much negativity and cribbing here...First of all 25$ is cheap,its very cheap compared to the prices one has to pay for other video tutorials.I'm from India so 25$ for me is like 1250 rs for me.I'm a student and sadly i have never earned a single penny all my life...Even considering that i think i can somehow scratch that much money for the video tutorials...I haven't bought any videos so far from here because well i don't want to ask my dad or anyone for the money.I'll buy it as soon as i get paid for my first job...One of my friends had bought one and i saw it(Marko's tutorial).It was insane.It really helped me a lot...

I understand that watching streaming video is not the same as having it in your drive and watching it at will.Even i love to actually have the power to forward it and rewind it at will..But things change.Everything changes over time.they have to.Jason built this entire thing from scratch with the help of his friends.Look where it is now.This site and everybody in it is an inspiration to me and i'm sure to a lot of artists out there.I get good critiques for my work(Everyone rips me apart but what the heck i'll improve).I believe in Jason.Its foolish to think that he hasn't thought it through.This site is his baby.Do you honestly think he'll just think of a random thought and just apply it...Let's wait and see how it works out.Why worry or crib?Everything will work out fine..Like i said "Have faith all you non believers"

:D

"Change is the only constant in the world"

[MattGamer]

Jason, first I'd like to thank you for the great work you've done
setting up this community and am forever in your debt for the
friends that I have made throughout the years here on CA.org.

I've been here for one reboot of the forums, and it has been a
great journey for myself as an artist and I'm sure thousands of others.

Ever since the first video download came out, it was and still is
an amazing blessing you have bestowed upon us artists! I never
thought in all my life that I would be able to learn from the likes of
Coro, Marko, Whit, Andrew, Richard, and Nox. I cannot thank you,
the MB production team, and artists for teaching us at such a
reasonable price.

What I'm getting to is that whatever you evolve CA.org into, I'm with you
and I trust that it will be fair to the artists as well as fair to you and
the team. Thanks for all you do and keep up the great work!

Now to all those moaning and groaning, shut your traps and go draw so you can
earn money to support CA.org. ;]

Note: I recently purchased 7 downloads at $100. That's
so cheap I couldn't get 2 of the competitor's DVDs for that much!
If you are scared of the streaming content, go buy all the MB downloads
that you can afford NOW and don't hesitate. It's worth every penny you
earn in the long run with all that you learn from just one of these videos!

[SCIBOTIC]

btw...got some tests back today for the online education stuff and they are crystal clear, smooth as butter at full HD. Ran a test from Amsterdam to Austin and it worked reallllly well. Settings were blurry but I got that tweaked today and is now clear as day. More tests tonight. Yay!

Any news on the actual bandwidth usage? Also what can those with connections below the cut-off point do if streaming HD video in real-time is a complete no-go? (My connection usually falls into that category.)

[Jacob Kobryn]

This greatly pains me as what I have been doing with these downloads is converting them and uploading them onto my iPod where I can watch them any time I wish. I normally watch them on planes and things. This would eliminate that for me.

[sinewavezero]

Bummer to hear some kooks are being crumpy thieving krooks. But I will keep buying your tutorials regardless the delivery method.

One thing i must agree with that a few people have mentioned, is why don't you have a PayPal "donation" button? I guarantee a lot of people would help out with donations on a regular basis if you gave that option. Even if people only give 1, 2, 3, 5 or whatever amount of dollars, that will add up with the amount of people who do frequent and respect this site. Look at somaFM, they provide sweet music for free and are totally listener supported. Why not make CA the same? or at least give that option. I could safely say I would donate a small amount each month to CA.

[spikey88]

I just spent 158 bucks on tutorials!! worth every penny :D

I'm interested to see what affect changing to streaming has on sales and piracy. Might be interesting to hold off on the price rise so we can get a clearer indication.

just my musings :)

[DanConnor]

I just discovered this place today! :)

Question: regardless of the streaming/download question- is all this stuff available on dvd?

I live way out in the boonies where the only internet option is satellite, with a 17G download cap. I use most of that for work, and if you go over they just shut you off for a week or two. Really stinks.

So, dvd is really the only option for me, although I could do some download (trying one now)

I wouldn't mind paying for membership, although I think its probably not the best business model.

[Psychotime]

Understandable.

[Zaxser]

This greatly pains me as what I have been doing with these downloads is converting them and uploading them onto my iPod where I can watch them any time I wish. I normally watch them on planes and things. This would eliminate that for me.

It's insanely easy to download streaming content. I'm sure a smart kid like you can figure it out.

I think streaming content has potential to introduce new pricing structures, but I'm skeptical about how it will stem piracy.

Irregardless, I know Jason has the interest of the site at heart, and I wish him the best of luck.

[nickzorn]

I'm kind of sad this is happening. I really prefer the downloads to streaming, but I understand why this is happening. Piracy is for douchebags.

Jason, you mentioned the possibility of the site becoming a pay site; if this happens (and I know we all hope it doesn't) would there be a free newsletter or anything? I don't have the money for a subscription to the site, but I would still like to know when the workshops are. I always learn a lot when I go to them.

[Ian Barker]

Gah... this is really disappointing. I was planning on buying several tuts over the course of the summer, but I guess I'm just going to have to stock up on what I can while it's not too late. :/

[spoonfruit]

Man, Jason's been bashed pretty hard about this!! I tend to trust his decision pretty dad gum well. Ah well, Even if I do live in the middle of nowhere and can't receive internet (frustrating? extremely), I'd much rather pay for a streamed video than have to pay for a subscription to this place. I'm MUCH too poor for that! Ha! The ironic thing about this is that I was definitely lookin at getting some vids over the summer as well...life's funny like that I gues..huh. Go, Jason go and your mad decision making skills!! :)

[Pezz]

Just wanted to comment that some of the whining in this thread is as asinine as some of the things that came out of my customers' mouths at Best Buy.

"Why is this alarm attached to this display camera? Do you think I'm some sort of THEIF!? You don't TRUST your CUSTOMERS!?! And look the memory is in checkpoint boxes! I'm shopping somewhere people TRUST THEIR CUSTOMERS - shoves camera in pants-"

Well tbh put enough cameras down your pants and no we start to get a little protective. Surely jason would too.

I barely even knew about the downloadable content and its price until now. I'd pay 25 for it, if I could reaccess it numerous times (studies take me centuries). I'm gonna go back and re-read the whole thread over tho. I'm gonna try and put aside 5 a week so I can buy one of them soon.

[Pixeltuner]

Since I joined this site at the end of 2007 my quality of work has improved so much (through its members, the challenges and the vids as well) that I would gladly pay for some kind of 'gold' membership to support his site or a flat subscription fee for the streams or whatever really. I know you want to keep this free but there probably are at least a few thousand members who are willing and able to as well. (having a decent job and all) Anyhoot, good luck with finding a solution. :)

[Ian Barker]

Question: Will the vids that are already available be taken down? Since they are already out there, there'd kind of be no point in switching them to streams. (hope this hasn't been answered already)

[GHudston]

Just wanted to comment that some of the whining in this thread is as asinine as some of the things that came out of my customers' mouths at Best Buy.

"Why is this alarm attached to this display camera? Do you think I'm some sort of THEIF!? You don't TRUST your CUSTOMERS!?! And look the memory is in checkpoint boxes! I'm shopping somewhere people TRUST THEIR CUSTOMERS - shoves camera in pants-"

Well tbh put enough cameras down your pants and no we start to get a little protective. Surely jason would too.



Having worked as customer support in a Staples store I know exactly the sort of people you're talking about and can see where you are coming from. But I disagree with your metaphor slightly.

What is happening here is less like getting protective and putting security tags on the cameras. It's more like getting protective and no longer selling the cameras at all, but still asking customers to pay for them so that they can use them whenever they come into the store without ever being allowed to take them home.

I'm not sure that I'll be able to bring myself to buy these videos if I can't download them, which is a massive shame.

[Jason Manley]

Listen. The reality is this simple. If everyone wants the downloads then ca members need to stop putting them on mother fucking torrents. If you do that, how would you feel if i was stealing your artwork so you couldnt pay your bills? How would you feel then? The streaming solution puts this to a stop.

The support of many of you...who have either never done that or have stopped is HUGE. THANK YOU. Really.

My anger is toward those still stealing from the community And my patience runs very thin. We cannot operate a business and keep this site free if people are going to steal. If we stole your artwork and gave it away you all would be livid. LIVID. So...plz do not put these on torrents.

[Ian Barker]

Yeah, I'm definitely going to be a lot more hesitant to buy anything. I'm not really sure how a stream is going to stop pirating, but if it somehow does, I hope that the gain outweighs the loss from the people who don't want to get as many vids. Hopefully the stream will be functional and well priced enough that it's not too much of a hurdle for people.

[SteFlack]

Like Jason said it’s all quite simple. Look how many downloads we’ve been treated too since the start of this thread because people got behind what Jason and his team are doing for us and supported them and their efforts. If we continue to support the downloads in the right way and help keep them off the torrent sites we should hopefully get to keep the downloads in the current state.

I’m sure we’ll seeing streaming content added to the site sooner or later but it may just be for other new exciting things such as online classes and such.

[GHudston]

Listen. The reality is this simple. If everyone wants the downloads then ca members need to stop putting them on mother fucking torrents. If you do that, how would you feel if i was stealing your artwork so you couldnt pay your bills? How would you feel then? The streaming solution puts this to a stop.

The support of many of you...who have either never done that or have stopped is HUGE. THANK YOU. Really.

My anger is toward those still stealing from the community And my patience runs very thin. We cannot operate a business and keep this site free if people are going to steal. If we stole your artwork and gave it away you all would be livid. LIVID. So...plz do not put these on torrents.

I totally appreciate where you're coming from, and I sincerely hope that this works out. People don't realise just how harmful piracy can be to people like you guys, which is a huge shame because of the amazing work that you're doing.

My biggest fear in all of this, though, is that you're going to end up detering more customers than you will pirates. Often the people who download torrents or games/films/etc. are people who would still not buy anyway them if piracy wasn't an option. This doesn't make it ok, mind you, but you might not be losing as many customers to piracy as you might think.

I certainly had the option to download the videos for free off a torrent site, as did everyone else, but I chose to purchase them and so did all of your other customers. I just feel that this hurts your customers more than it does the few who you are trying to deter.

Anyway, on a slightly less negative note, there are a lot of videos that I have still yet to buy and I look forward to getting them soon (as soon as I can afford it!)

[Jason Manley]

I can track losses to piracy. I can also track gains based on removing the torrents each month. I also have to have CA pay someone to remove the torrents every single day so we have that loss too. When the loss outweighs the gains of doing the videos altogether we have to find other solutions.

It is not the people who are stealing the vids in china or wherever that Im worried about. It is the members of this community who are not realizing that what they are doing by uploading the vids is hurting the ability for this all volunteer community to continue to operate as a free resource.

[beastathon]

The reality is that you'll never be able to stop piracy. You'll never be able to convince every single person who is a member of CA to not pirate the downloads. But by implementing more copy protection, more inconvenience, it's just going to make legitimate customers angry. These measures may delay pirates, but it'll never stop them.

You also need to consider that downloading a torrent is much easier than signing on to a secure website, maybe entering some security details or something, and waiting for the video to stream. More and more people are going to do the easy option, which will increase more piracy.

[evamonkeyn2]

It is the members of this community who are not realizing that what they are doing by uploading the vids is hurting the ability for this all volunteer community to continue to operate as a free resource.

I have to disagree. When someone throws one of your tutorials into their torrent sharing folder they take a conscious action to kick you in the balls. The issue is not ignorance of what they are doing. They dont accidentally drop the tutorial in there. The problem is that they are able to rationalise doing so. Everyone knows the score here. Its more than well known how the community runs and where the download dollars go. The simple fact is that some 'information should be free' jerkoff decides you are big enough to qualify as 'the man' who is opressing the poor with your 'pay for downloads'. Maybe they want the kudos and stroking of their 'Robin hood' ego in the torrent file comment section. Either way, they know exactly what they are doing to you and they could not care less, and should be treated as such.

To prevent more torrent downloads of already released non streaming media how about 5 minutes of video followed by the rest of the expected time filled with static. Release that to the community for every download you have released. Have us flood the torrent sites with that. When some little jackass has to try 300-400 times before finding a valid download of a tutorial they may find the process more effort than it is worth.

[GHudston]

I have to disagree. When someone throws one of your tutorials into their torrent sharing folder they take a conscious action to kick you in the balls. The issue is not ignorance of what they are doing. They dont accidentally drop the tutorial in there. The problem is that they are able to rationalise doing so. Everyone knows the score here. Its more than well known how the community runs and where the download dollars go. The simple fact is that some 'information should be free' jerkoff decides you are big enough to qualify as 'the man' who is opressing the poor with your 'pay for downloads'. Maybe they want the kudos and stroking of their 'Robin hood' ego in the torrent file comment section. Either way, they know exactly what they are doing to you and they could not care less, and should be treated as such.

To prevent more torrent downloads of already released non streaming media how about 5 minutes of video followed by the rest of the expected time filled with static. Release that to the community for every download you have released. Have us flood the torrent sites with that. When some little jackass has to try 300-400 times before finding a valid download of a tutorial they may find the process more effort than it is worth.

That actually sounds like it could be quite effective. I think that the trick is not to stop people uploading the files, because you'll never stop that, but to come up with a way to deter people from downloading or give more reason to buy over downloading. I hope you figure it out, though.

[Ian Barker]

So why didn't prosecuting the uploaders work? All the downloads are tagged, so there shouldn't be a problem identifying anyone, right? I would think after a few cases of that, people wisen up and stop uploading.

[Zaxser]

So why didn't prosecuting the uploaders work? All the downloads are tagged, so there shouldn't be a problem identifying anyone, right? I would think after a few cases of that, people wisen up and stop uploading.

What I suspect happened: The files had an invisible water mark that traced the video to a credit card account. People were told and warned. People, being stupid, uploaded them to bit torrent anyway. With the credit card accounts being ridiculously easy to trace and plausible deniability being virtually nonexistent, Massive Black was able to get a cadre of lawyers to unload a can of whoopass on the original uploaders.

But the file was already out there, so the same file, with the same water mark would show up most or all of the time on these bit torrent sites. The original uploader probably has nothing to do with it, so it doesn't make since to kick his ass again. Without the water mark, the uploaders becoming a lot harder to trace, so that the originally awesome piracy protection tool become increasingly worthless.

Still, I'm sure they still catch a new uploader or two on a regular basis. Jason seems too serious to outright stop.

[Jason Manley]

it is not a massive black matter. massive black does not make a dollar from any of the video dowloads. zero. massive black is the single largest sponsor of this community and has donated more money, time, manpower, and support than any company in the industry who gives back to artists around the world.

[Jason Manley]

The reality is that you'll never be able to stop piracy. You'll never be able to convince every single person who is a member of CA to not pirate the downloads. But by implementing more copy protection, more inconvenience, it's just going to make legitimate customers angry. These measures may delay pirates, but it'll never stop them.

You also need to consider that downloading a torrent is much easier than signing on to a secure website, maybe entering some security details or something, and waiting for the video to stream. More and more people are going to do the easy option, which will increase more piracy.


you are entirely wrong when it comes to this content that is sold on this site. It will stop. and dont worry. Heads will roll soon enough.

lawsuits can take years to resolve, and then there is a matter of appeals.

ca does not have years to wait. however, with the measures going into place and the host of responses and precautions going into place we will have what we need to grind it to a halt. the remaining trickle can be handled through the current anti-torrent measures we are using. the reality is that the streaming solution is the fastest solution to keeping this site free and online for your use.

those that want to fight me on that can simply take their learning elsewhere.

a few days ago I met with the executive in charge of anti-piracy for the ESA and his words regarding my solutions were...."very impressive". I told him I would update him with the results once all measures are in place.

It was my hope that helping ca understand what piracy does to this community would help...and it has. At least 80 percent of the piracy has already stopped just because there are good people in this community who have realized what it was doing now that we have worked to educate people.

[Jason Manley]

That actually sounds like it could be quite effective. I think that the trick is not to stop people uploading the files, because you'll never stop that,


This is incorrect. it will stop here as soon as the first heads roll. if it doesnt another head will roll...then another.

thankfully the majority of the uploading has slowed already due to ca being a place with good people who understand the value of the thousands of volunteer hours happening here.

[SoufMeng]

thankfully the majority of the uploading has slowed already due to ca being a place with good people who understand the value of the thousands of volunteer hours happening here.
It may be too soon to celebrate but thats good to hear! I wish CA that it keeps on going that way.
:yayca:

[Jason Manley]

well any decrease is worth celebrating.

I do love the idea of making decoy uploads and spamming them all over the torrent sites. can we hold off on discussion about streaming and such and go over the awesome idea of doing decoys?


What do you all think the best way to go about this would be?

I would be willing to do a live streaming class chosen by the group who helps do this in order to teach and help in return. I can trade my time and knowledge easily...as well as offer downloads to those who help.

Any thoughts?


jason

[Anurizm]

maybe rip some fake vids from youtube and seed them on torrent sites and rar/iso them with fake names??

I'm in to help out.

[Mock]

Decoy downloads would be fantastic. Nothing says "stop downloading our stuff, asshole" better than opening an ill gotten Jason Chan download to find 2 Girls 1 Cup.

Or a small video of Coro flipping off the camera, screaming "Fuck you", and laughing hysterically as the screen fades to black. What would be better is inserting a full hour of blank footage afterwards so the file size is close to what the real video would be, so downloaders waste their time.

I have a small fleet of computers at the house that I could use for uploading and seeding on multiple torrent sites if we have some good decoys to spread.

[Anurizm]

now really thinking about it, streaming really isn't going to be a solution because there are ways to capture streaming video.

[john_d]

I know this would be a huge production, but it would be funny to create videos that appear normal, but the instructors give totally incorrect information. Or have the instructor working on a piece and explaining what he's doing and being very serious about it, but then drawing like a 2 year old. Something that people wouldn't realize is a fake until they've already invested some time into watching it.

[Jason Manley]

now really thinking about it, streaming really isn't going to be a solution because there are ways to capture streaming video.


folks dont have to believe me. id not be going through the effort if i didnt think it was the right solution.

[Jason Manley]

naaaah...no extra work...we can just fill it up with spam and garbage and upload the files. they just have to be the same size as the originals and aptly named.



j

[LosPescados]

I really find it a good idea to fight against piracy, but the only part where I might see an issue is: Some people don't have unlimited internet, personally I only have 40Gig a month, which is still quite small for our family. And then having to stream the great tutorials you put on-line in high quality will take a huge gap from my Internet!

This isn't supposed to be an offense, but I know some people still have this problem.

PS: I really dig your work, I'm going to buy the Marko Djurdjevic - Character Ideation DVD as soon as possible to avoid having to stream it over and over!

PSS: Don't let piracy turn you down! These tutorials are to great to not make/sell them.

(Sorry for my English, it(s quite late here and I'm having trouble finding the right words!)

[Arshes Nei]

naaaah...no extra work...we can just fill it up with spam and garbage and upload the files. they just have to be the same size as the originals and aptly named.



j

Just need something more creative than the standard Rickroll ;)

[cesmls]

Now why would someone who abhors torrenting do torrenting himself?

I don't think that's a very good example to be setting.

[FraserMcT]

Uploading material (that you have full rights to distribute) to torrents is not illegal.

[Mock]

Now why would someone who abhors torrenting do torrenting himself?

I don't think that's a very good example to be setting.

It's not the process of torrenting which is abhorred. Torrenting just a manner of getting information from one place to another. However, torrenting material that you don't have the right to distribute and which should be paid for is something else entirely. We would dislike it just as much if people were burning the videos onto hundreds of DvDs and mailing them out.

Saying we shouldn't torrent is like saying I shouldn't drive if I don't like people transporting crystal meth in the trunk of their car. It's the material they're carrying, not the method of transportation, that pisses us off.

Doing everything possible to keep this site free for everyone who uses it? I think that's a pretty damn good example to be setting, actually.

[Ian Barker]

Unfortunately I won't be able to help since I don't have access to torrents on this computer, but I definitely think that fake vids would be a great idea.

[alesoun]

I wouldn't even know how to upload to torrent; but the idea of a decoy tickles me and if I knew how to do it....... ;)

[Arshes Nei]

I know this might take more time and effort than really warranted. How about a fake video where the guy teaches you how to use Lens Flares and Difference Clouds in Photoshop then moving the finished product with with the Pattern stamps of Chicks and Hens in Painter, and using the Autopaint feature to spice it up. You can still have some random guy swinging in a chair from time to time, maybe picking his nose and wiping boogers on his shirt. Make sure the whole audio is some Public Broadcast of some other language like some crap something like Al Jazeera.

Make sure there are cut scenes to the blue screen you see in infomercials where you can own more of these lovely things for X payments of X amount of dollars!

ok...like I'm plotting too much...I need to go back to other stuff.

[Aphotic Phoenix]

You know...I was wondering why no one was doing this in the first place. Thank you all for making me feel less...evil. XD

Anyway...wasn't there an open call for tutorials? I'm fairly certain plenty of us that didn't feel knowledgeable enough to make a real vid would be willing to assist making a fake.

*Edit* Actually, as amusing as a collective "fuck you" vid from the community would be, it would most likely be a lot less work to just splice all the preview trailers together, and cut to length to fit the vid it's supposed to be.

[beastathon]

you are entirely wrong when it comes to this content that is sold on this site. It will stop. and dont worry. Heads will roll soon enough.

You do appear very confident about stopping the piracy, I respect that and I'm sure you've got a plan. It is CA's content, and they can do whatever they want with it. I'm not going to hide the fact I won't like streaming content, especially with an internet cap, but it's your decision and I hope it works.

[FraserMcT]

I have made a dummy video, however I do not know how to make a torrent.
Just rename the video to whatever download you want to fake (that would be easiest)
The video includes a bear, and some crowd noises.
Anyone know of a site that will accept uploads that are 460MB?

[Zapp!]

what about a couple of hours of the trailers with subliminal messages in them? maybe you could get the idea into their heads that they are douchebags and that they should actually buy the videos.

[ArtisticLeo]

I think we really should dedicate this thread to stop whining about how much its going to inconvenience us, and start brainstorming on how we can assist Jason in balancing the costs of this site and continue to keep the prices of the materials at a premium for us. This a community for a reason and the legalities of it don't have to rely on a single person or group of people either.

For the massive amount of time I spend on the computer each week, I personally would be more than willing to help keep an eye out for illicit torrents and report them at least one a week. Tell me what to look for, tell me how I can help, tell me the rules of this game and I'll help you play it so you don't have to spend money to hire someone else to.

I more than understand the inconvenience of streaming content, and wouldn't be inclined to pay for each individual stream. But what I would be willing to pay is for a membership account that grants me access to videos relative to my skill level. I Wouldn't want to pay for every video in the library, not all will pertain to me, but the option to purchase additional packages for a monthly rate (at reasonable increments) would be reasonable to me, especially if Conceptart.org gave me the means to take what I've learned, and actively assist me in finding money for my work I used from it.

[Jason Manley]

thank you.

found torrents can be emailed to torrentremoval@massiveblack.com

[Ian Barker]

You may also want to watch out for filesharing sites such as Rapidshare and Megaupload. A quick google search didn't reveal any active links, but it would be a good idea to check it now and then.

[ArtisticLeo]

The idea of fake videos is amusing, but this could spark more attention than needed. Truthfully only one thing needs to be done. The torrents need to be removed, and uploaders need to be dealt with. I really strongly feel that the best way Conceptart.org can possibly protect its content is by its users to take the opportunity of these resources more seriously and guard them. Not all of us can contribute to the upkeep of this site with tutorials that can be sold affordably to cover costs, but we can contribute our time in thanks to help protect the value of those donations. And by that I simply mean find the torrents, and get them taken down. There need be no incident.

[Jason Manley]

The idea of fake videos is amusing, but this could spark more attention than needed. Truthfully only one thing needs to be done. The torrents need to be removed, and uploaders need to be dealt with. I really strongly feel that the best way Conceptart.org can possibly protect its content is by its users to take the opportunity of these resources more seriously and guard them. Not all of us can contribute to the upkeep of this site with tutorials that can be sold affordably to cover costs, but we can contribute our time in thanks to help protect the value of those donations. And by that I simply mean find the torrents, and get them taken down. There need be no incident.


You hit the nail on the head. Thank you for the eloquence. Please keep the videos safe. That is all that needs to happen. You are precisely right.

[Terminalfears]

The reality is..we change to streaming and hope the screen capturing stops. If not, we cannot keep this site free for all to participate in. These vids support this site, it's growth, and cover all the bandwidth costs. We transfer at least 5000 gigs a month. That does not come cheap here..nor do the entire mass of servers. I think those who see streaming as bandwidth heavy on these get the idea. Though a video is only two hundred megs or so....ca is five thousand gigs. Now maybe that helps show how I feel about this happening. Streaming will work. The software seems solid.

We already have nearly given away education at the given price point. I just do not understand why we cannot do a good thing without people taking advantage of it. One of the online schools doing education stuff has had NO torrents and their streaming classes are more than two hundred times what we sell these vids for. Life sure isn't fair huh?


jason


Probably because those people don't want to share what they paid so much for. Perhaps that's the solution - jack up the prices.

Sorry to hear it's happening. I'm an avid supporter of what you guys are doing (although, I'm a broke student who can't afford to spend on videos - I certainly won't be torrenting them either.)

[Jason Manley]

We prefer to keep costs as low as possible. That is the whole point. This stuff was triple to quadruple the price back when gnmn was the only place in town. Rather than offer it up at sixty bucks for each video we cut them down as low low low as we could. We did not have to do that. We chose to.

All three CA founders felt like art school was far too expensive and that the private schools have hijacked education with greed, at the expense of artists who could not afford to pay the exhorbitant tuition...or even afford to get loans to do it. Art should be available to any talented artists, not just those with wealthy families. Talent is often found struggling away for knowledge. We do our best to make that available. I still hear the words "Jason if you can't afford to go to art school you don't deserve to go". Well if all this was around then, I could have done much better, much faster.

We price things the best we can. We also have a host of new services coming up to improve the higher end side of education here, including a legit online school, live broadcasts, and more. The goal is to keep the site as it is now, free and open for all to participate. At the same time we must continue to figure out ways to cover the ever increasing costs as we grow. CA must also create opportunity for those who rise to the top and wish to support themselves with their art and to better help those who wish to be where their dreams require. I spent a hundred thousand dollars on my education. It has always been my hope that others wouldn't have to. In the end I want to see multiple pathways here for artists to learn and have opportunity for independence.

[IMBass]

Thank you Jason Manley.

Thank you Andrew Jones.

Thank you Justin Kaufman.

Thank you Carl Dobsky.

Thank you Bruno Gore.

Thank you Kemp Remillard.

Thank you Mike Bierek.

Thank you Whit Brachna.

And thank you to everyone else who has or will help me grow as an artist through the videos or otherwise. I wish I could do more to help with the torrent situation. I'm furious. I just want you guys to know that I sincerely appreciate everything you have done for this community. This site has changed my life in two years and will continue to do so.

Thank you guys so much for everything you have done. You have saved my livelihood.

[Ian Barker]

Probably because those people don't want to share what they paid so much for. Perhaps that's the solution - jack up the prices.

Pretty sure upping the prices would just make more people want to illegally download them.

[Devere]

wow thanks Looking forward to streaming only 1 request can you possibly make the dan dos santos available for download a little while longer after you start, streaming 2 plus gigs with a monthly allowance eats away at your monthly limit really fast, don't have the cash now but want will purchase in hopefully the near future.

if possible leave any really large tutorials for down loads. or if you haven't though of it already maybe a chapter based system can be included into the interface design and selection process.

hopefully my pieces for the dog art show sell off fast and i can buy sooner than later

[Burtzum]

Sad to see downloads go. Looking through the Massive Black shop, I've bought 14 vids so far and I'm a grunt in a retail store earning a yearly income of $12,000 at best. Its not hard to save up for these things. I just make my own lunches for a week instead of being lazy and dropping $8 at Panera Bread every day, and bam, cash for a couple more vids.

[Jason Manley]

Burtzum, thank you. I do know the feeling. I was spending five hundred dollars a month in art supplies in school and eating ramen and party pizza and two dollar frozen dinners every day to do so. I then spent another seven grand to go to the illustration academy to pretty much get the info available in the downloads now for twenty bucks, though I do understand the importance of in person learning...would not change a thing about that experience. At least there are affordable ways to learn now. Six years ago there were not.

[PieterV]

Sorry if this been asked before, haven't read the entire thread...

How would the streaming be handled for people with unstable connections? My internet connection works fine one day, but can be very temperemental the next. I can imagine the movies won't be loaded into memory a la a quicktime movie, so this might be an issue for me.

[ibloat]

First of all, thanks for all the nice videos! :yayca: (and the forums!)
Even though my skill level is nowhere near being able to make proper use of the material it non the less is very inspiring to just see those people at work.
Just bought another 4 videos before CA goes streaming (using scare tactics to make us buy stuff, tsk :D) since I love to actually own the stuff I buy.
Have you considered watermarking the videos on a per user basis to deter casual pirates? As in passive DRM, use it to link torrented versions to users and sue the hell out of them if you see fit.
Anyhow, you obviously feel streaming is the way to go, so my request would be if at all possible, please support us Mac/Linux heads by not requiring some Windows shut-in piece of software to view the videos.

cheers
(yes i do realize this is my first post, please be gentle:assspank:)

[Hyskoa]

Probably because those people don't want to share what they paid so much for. Perhaps that's the solution - jack up the prices.

Sorry to hear it's happening. I'm an avid supporter of what you guys are doing (although, I'm a broke student who can't afford to spend on videos - I certainly won't be torrenting them either.)

Wouldn't work, nor does adding artificial mass.
They just turn them into rips.

They've presented releases of 20 gigs and they have presented releases of over 1K dollars per unit. The larger 20 gigs releases cuts of a large percentage of countries from downloading it illegally though, but the server/transfer costs alone are murder. And if done on DVD, that's about 7 DVD units right there.
So even less profit. And it has to be a single release, because series are published as series(once a month).

[chriskot]

You may also want to watch out for filesharing sites such as Rapidshare and Megaupload. A quick google search didn't reveal any active links, but it would be a good idea to check it now and then.
(EDITED) I can't find any that haven't been taken down yet, but if I do should these links also be sent to the torrentremoval email?

[m0uS3r]

Jason this is a big mistake as whit the downloadable content was

i mean if one individual wanna pirate man he will just because he is like us he dose what he likes best so my opinion release maybe DVD s rarely and let us work our asses to get to the concept art workshops to c education and for the ca.org paying a tax

and who wanna still come here hell he will because you showed us what a wonderful community you are given us so who wanna learn will pay and everything will be ok

piracy will never stop, like art will never stop, can ya c X-Men origins wolverine came out on torrents because some leaks and was a very big scandal about it

sometimes all must suffer because 2 or 3 because this is the world we live in

i just hope you will not lose again more money like in the past

cheers and good luck CA

P.S.i personally like DVD's hell man they are great gotta say marko is off the edge and he sure influenced me a loot so dvd's for me

[Ian Barker]

Mouser, I would suggest learning how to use punctuation and complete sentences before trying to contribute to a discussion. Capitalization would be great too. That way we can, y'know, understand what the hell you're trying to say. I understand English might not be your native tongue, but you at least gotta put some effort into it.

[ShroudStar]

All I have to say is thank God it's pay week. Just my very first paid download has helped me improve in a huge leap and bound and if I have to buy every single tutorial to get the knowledge, I will. (Hope they're still accessible this Saturday). :)

As for streaming video...if I can sit through a Youtube vid that keeps disconnecting and restarting it due to a constantly disconnecting WI-FI signal, I sure as hell can watch a streaming tutorial. CA has been a great help in just this year and a half alone when I really got serious on here and I would like to see it not go belly up. Seeing Jason go HULK SMASH on the pirates would be for the best, of course.

And if it goes paid subscription, I'll pay. Sure as hell beats a subscription on DA that while fun, doesn't advance any knowledge or professional help. No one else goes ahead and releases that business side of art information (which is one I definitely have to get). For that, CA rules the Internet.

[Pezz]

Sad to see downloads go. Looking through the Massive Black shop, I've bought 14 vids so far and I'm a grunt in a retail store earning a yearly income of $12,000 at best. Its not hard to save up for these things. I just make my own lunches for a week instead of being lazy and dropping $8 at Panera Bread every day, and bam, cash for a couple more vids.

I must say fueling my 25 dollar a week hockey habit doesn't help me to save my pennies! Nor paying tuition out of pocket, stupid financial aid. I've gotta get one of these videos.

[IMBass]

I'd like to assist in finding and reporting torrents. What do I need to do? Just google and send links to the above address?

[GriNGo]

Sorry to say this, but Jason, you are just ignoring everybody who lives outside of the 1st world. Everybody else, like 80% of potential customers, aren't going to pay streaming, it's that simple. Maybe you don't understand the magnitude of pirating in the 3rd world do you? It's not just torrenting. It's a whole economy-type situation. In my country almost every city block has a store of pirated dvd's from videos, to ps2 games, to software.. you name it... I have heard of whole MALLS in Peru and Argentina devoted solely to pirated stuff. MALLS (5 story buildings the size of blocks and shit). Or you don't understand the suckiness of 3rd world internet (and as some people have mentioned, that it costs more and for less quality)? I'm not defending it. I'm just saying that's harder to stop than you think it is. About the internet access, at least in Ecuador we don't have bandwidth limitations... yet. (Australia should riot or something). I'm pretty sure you don't care but still.. it saddens me alot to see you ignore the rest of the world in a so "it's my way or the high way" kind of way.... This new business model will eliminate most of that 80% of potential customers... which will gladly go torrenting or emuling whenever they can.

Let me explain: Quality streaming just isn't possible in our countries... the inconvenience of it is staggering. An example, lets say it's youtube type streaming. Where I can pause until the stream loads, and then play it for actual studying purposes. It's basically a 2 hour wait time until it loads, and an hour to see the vid. a 3 hour ordeal... with 1 hour of it actually worth it. That's when the internet connection is perfect. Now, if it's non-pausable, like some streaming vid sites are (microsoft live.com sites for example), then it's just impossible to watch. And I'm not talking high quailty 480p or 720p HD video streaming.. I'm talking SD quality.. pixelated. sucky vids. Not good for art instruction... Actual live streaming content (like live lectures) is just impossible too watch in good quality.

But still, I respect your decision.. and wish you luck in it's implementation and acceptance.

I have read through this whole thread, and It has surprised me that nobody ever mentions cutting costs. I mean, you could easily cut costs if you eliminate JPG uploads to your own servers. Eliminate the people who haven't accessed their account in over a year. Let people use Photobucket, flickr, or google's services to upload, make them work the extra mile to post in the forums... Or eliminate the gallery feature. I also think a DONATION button is a must (i mean if wikipedia can live with donations, why couldn't CA.org aswell)?... and the idea about a subscription model, like DEVIANTART, would greatly help the site... keep some features free (like basic forum access and viewing, but let subscription payers have some better features (access to exclusive content, ability to upload stuff to the servers (like their jpgs for their sketchbooks), gallery creation feature, bigger avatars, ability to place images in their sigs, ability to make their threads have images in their sigs etc). Don't you have like a million users or so? imagine a thousand of them paying 10 dollars a year for that membership type. 10 frikkin dollars... There you have 10000 bucks easily... and that doesn't count the money earned by the downloads (or streaming) and such, and money gained by the donation link... i'm pretty sure you have thought about this, but still, I hope my rambling gets across to people who might not have thought about it.

Once again.. good luck.

For the record... I have bought about 80$ worth of Downloadable content... I'm thinking of buying Carl Dobsky's perspective stuff soon.

[hala]

Mouser, I would suggest learning how to use punctuation and complete sentences before trying to contribute to a discussion. Capitalization would be great too. That way we can, y'know, understand what the hell you're trying to say. I understand English might not be your native tongue, but you at least gotta put some effort into it.

I understood what he was saying. Crit art, not someone's english.


Anyway, I prefer the downloads but I'll support the streaming content.

I'm sure Jason and the rest of the Clan knows who they are marketing to, and will try and accommodate as many people people as they can. No matter what they do, it is still cheaper than 34k a year to go to art school, and learn only at half the rate.
I know it sucks in other countries, my boyfriend is from Australia and go that internet cap is aggravating, and my internet constantly cuts out because my family can't afford the best,

but for some of us in the US, if you are really determined to use the content and succeed you'll put up with what you have to, to reach your goal.

I'm not going to complain to the person who's allowing me to learn at a rate I can afford. I spend 34k a year to go to art school, and didn't learn half as much as I have since I joined CA.

That's just my opinion anyway, I just feel like those of us who don't have the internet cap problem shouldn't complain.
No one has to agree with me ;)

[Rune Rask]

Seeing this post abit late, and it really troubles me to see, that you would take such steps in order to "remove" piracy....

I mean you do realize that while doing this with the best intentions you end up delivering a worse product.

i support MB and have many of your vids and pay for them gladly, but a streaming service is just bad news. It employs a lot of problems for the end user, and he might just decide to stream a few times and then end up downloading a pirated copy just because its more convenient.
I am NOT saying piracy is OK but you cant solve it by making it more complex.

This have happened to a lot of companies who tried their best to employ user friendly DRM, but its just bad business.

You cant remove piracy.. you cant remove the ability for people to do it.

You can, however choose to try and meet the challenge that exists in trying to create material and distribute this in a creative way that can work in the environment that is the internet, otherwise you WILL end up not making content.

tons of clever people have found ways to do this already, and other have people on these boards have great ideas too.

Client based software fx? pass and user name to download then watch?

Client based videos which exists within software which checks with CA.org or other server side?

Heavier emphasis on commercial support? I am mean MB and CA must have tons of marketing value? sponsorships of artists appearing in vids? more ad´s on the site?

Have the videos available for no fee, but then supply a buying member to access extra mercandise in form of t-shirts, saving points for workshops, getting cool stuff or cookies wathever.

These are just bad examples after a 2min brain storm. I mean tons of exposure and money is available through the internet, you just need to know how to tap its powers! Im not trying to sound like mr. Know it All, but i just don't like whats happening to the entire cultural side of the world. Its going mad because of copyright..

just my 2cents

[Jason Manley]

First, Rune, thanks. We have already fully explored all your options suggested. Regarding the lower quality service, plz refrain from judgement until you actually see what we are up to. You are not correct about what CA is capable of doing if we change to the newly designed streaming service. Already the education effort alone...this thread..sharing info..helping everyone understand is helping.

The piracy issue is already greatly improved. Anyone saying it cannot be controlled does not understand the problem here in the community, nor seen the results of helping people understand what piracy does to all of our creative rights..yours, mine, and every other artist. The penalties for piracy are very real now and clearly in place. My list for banning is more than another one hundred people deep. I am hoping that most those videos will come down before I get back from the social networking conference tomorrow. If not I have more work to do.

This thread is kinda just repeating itself now though. Please read the entire thread to be sure you are not saying what was said just a few pages ago. New discussion info that is CONSTRUCTIVE is always welcome. Thank you.

If ca members want to see the downloads stay then please support the downloads by not torrenting...simple as that. uploading to the torrents means we have to change the business model to streaming. There is a very simple solution...if anyone considers uploading...plz don't. We as a member base control our own fate. It is an all volunteer effort. Please respect everyone donating and giving their time to make this site what it is today.

Thank you all for the generous support, ideas, and comments.


Truly,



Jason Manley

[Hive_minD]

If ca members want to see the downloads stay then please support the downloads by not torrenting...simple as that. uploading to the torrents means we have to change the business model to streaming. There is a very simple solution...if anyone considers uploading...plz don't. We as a member base control our own fate. It is an all volunteer effort. Please respect everyone donating and giving their time to make this site what it is today.

Thank you all for the generous support, ideas, and comments.


Truly,



Jason Manley

Wish we who are not uploading these vids via torrents could do more to prevent others from doing so. These vids have really helped me in many ways. Keep up the great work ca + Jason :yayca:

[Jason Manley]

actually you have....this discussion happening here alone has been very helpful in slowing it down...you all have helped me to understand the matter better as well as everyone else who is reading. good stuff.


j

[MattGamer]

I'm surprised the streaming content hasn't arrived yet! But forever grateful
because I have been purchasing some fine videos such as
Greg Manchess' "Above the Timberline! Damn, it's so informative and I
could watch it everyday till I die and still learn things from it!

Btw, Jason, your avatar goes perfectly to the drums in "Somebody" by Bryan Adams. lol
And I like the Facebook logging in thingy as well. Keep up the great work, sir!

[Ian Barker]

Yeah, I've been spending waaaay too much money the last couple weeks on downloads before they get replaced. Still a few more that I really want, so I hope we have a little while longer... I gotta wait til I get paid on Friday though ;_;

[KarylGilbertson]

I totally agree with what Jason was saying regarding the streaming. While I'm not CRAZY about the idea, I can understand why they're taking that route, AND I'm not going to say "it's going to suck" until I see whether or not they can pull it off. You never know what CA is capable of, folks. ;)

[Rune Rask]

@ Jason, you are right i should not have jumped any conclusions on quality, you always have delivered top-notch content, sorry for that. I simply got myself off-track there, set off by the whole streaming idea as a whole. (not being able to watch something off-line is a limiting factor for myself, so i guess it only applies to my own needs).

About controlling piracy i understand that you are not a mass distributor as such, and therefore people pirating your stuff most likely (you said so at least) come from "insiders" or members of the community and as such its (i guess) easier to appeal to everyone's senses, so again sorry for the rant.

it just sets me off that, as the old saying goes, "if you screw this up, you screw it up for everyone", those everyone is me and alot off other people who supports alternatives to alot of things, and in a lot of ways. And as such, these kind off things can offend me.

I understand this is not the best time to get offended, because you are in fact trying to realize a better world for artist all around. I'm sorry for my rant, i know support is what you need more than anything right now, and i will try my best to contribute in a constructive and supportive manner henceforth.

-Rune

[Collywobbles]

I just wanted to say that I bought three of these videos and learned something important from each one. I have nothing and $15-20 is a lot of money for me. I have never torrented anything but I have friends and relatives who do every day even though they can afford the programs they are stealing. I can't afford Photoshop or 3DS so I use Gimp and Blender professionally. I sold paintings I did with a mouse so I could afford a tablet. I don't want to hear justifications or whining about money, if I can buy these videos then so can you.

I wish I could buy more but it's not possible right now. I hope they last long enough for me to scrape up some more money.

Thanks for the help Jason and MB.

[GHudston]

I just want to say that I have purchased several more videos in the last few days (and am downloading both of Jason Chans style videos as we speak) and I would like to just say that thus far they have been incredibly helpful and inspiring.

I will continue to purchase them (and not upload or share them, obviously) in support of the downloads, which are extremely convenient for me and it would be such a shame to see them go.

I just wanted to let you know that so that even if it seems like I am resisting you and being argumentative; I do so in full support of your product and of conceptart.org and not in support of those who wish to spoil it for the rest of us.

[Jason Manley]

thank you!!!

just got back from SF. Met until about three am with carl, coro, andrew, and melissa and have finished much of the big picture overview for the online educational programs.

as long as people refrain from uploading to the torrents we can keep the downloads. there will be some streaming services as well. If people support ca that comes around in even more support from ca. there is much to do...much much much to do.


jason

[GHudston]

Hugely appreciated Jason. Thank you.

[Ian Barker]

Yeah, that is very good news, I'm glad that your various efforts against piracy have been effective. Thank you very much for your hard work! I know we all appreciate it. :)

[alesoun]

I'm glad the downloads can continue. I assume the streaming will mainly be used for interactive tutorials?

Good news anyway. Streaming isn't a massive problem for me, but I know it is for other people. Thanks, Jason.

[XanaChama]

as long as people refrain from uploading to the torrents we can keep the downloads. there will be some streaming services as well.

Woo hoo. I'll keep reporting them then :)

[ibloat]

Thanks Jason! :D
Didn't find any CA/BM content on a quick usenet search by the way.
Just bought another batch of videos yesterday. Couldn't stop myself from buying more than only one (the Hero) :yayca:.
Looking forward to the new services/content very much.

[Liam Harvey]

wooohoooo!
that is fanytastic news.
Glad to see your work has paid off jason and Co. I cannot wait for the many new things that you areno doubt preparing to create.

[feral714]

I bought a tutorial video before that had my name pop up as a watermark on it intermittently. It was delivered on disk though, not downloaded. I'm not sure of the difficulty involved but if it was easy to do or automated somehow maybe it would help prevent theft.
Along those lines I think I heard that Flash or maybe Maya used to include info into anything made with them, like a serial number somewhere invisible within the code of the specific license for the software.

Glad to see you're keeping the DLs, I would be much less likely to purchase a streamed tutorial.

[Darkside]

man I love what you are doing to maintain the standard of this place and even improve it :)
I learned a great great, I repeat GREAT deal from every video I´ve purchased, and the price is pretty irrelevant when you improve as an artist.
anyway, what I´m trying to say is THANK YOU Jason.

[bestow]

dont do it, if its on your monitor it can be recorded, even if its streaming: cam studio, real player and mozilla plugins, and dont forget ghetto-holding-a-camcorder.

Pirate bays being bought anyways.

[Spirit]

It's a shame that people are robbing everyone in this community in such a way, they don't seem to get that it affects everyone, including them! It's also a shame that the downloads may have to disappear because of this, but I can understand completely why you are having to do it. Also, it will be great if the torrenting stops and we are able to keep the downloads, as from September this year I will be getting EMA from college (which will be £30 a week) and if they are still available I will be buying as many as I can! Definately a great investment for my own education, but its also good to know it will be going back into the community.

Thank you for everything you do here, and for giving up so much of your own time to help others!

[mbarq]

Man, had no idea CA wasn't doing so hot.

Well, as has been said, streaming won't deter a determined pirate. I do hope however, the streaming goes well. I know Steam got a lot of guff for the immense safeguards they implemented. But what I love about Steam is, they implemented the security without hurting their consumers, unlike SecuRom.

Downloading El Coro's Alla Prima as we speak (pings out on me though :(). Wanted Richard Schmid's book, but can't find it anywhere. I'm sure it'll still serve me as well (if not better) when I take my figure painting class this fall at my local CC. Looking forward to the others when I can gather some more dough.

oh, and this:

I think the best way to discourage piracy is to find ways to add value to legitimately purchased products. Even something as insignificant as giving customers a "ConceptArt Supporter" forum tag may help. Maybe bundling videos from one artist together with a print of their work, or every video purchase enters you in a drawing for free admission to the next CA Event. There must be a ton of ways to tie-in perks that can't be downloaded.

Keep strong, love the mantra of this website, 'specially this part:

As far as what you are getting...Right now we are interested first in sharing knowledge. Knowledge that took years of professional and student experience to gather so the big art schools no longer had a monopoly on the language of art.

[Crass]

Jason,

I didn't read the entire thread, some of the posts on the early pages made me skip right to the end to comment. Maybe this has been brought up several times already but this is a really slippery slope, and I think you are setting yourself up for a crash landing with this attitude that it's either you or the internet pirates.

It's probably possible in some way to take measures to get rid of piracy more or less entirely, but at what price? You will have to sacrifice too much and the product will not only become uninteresting for a pirate but also for the paying end-user. Do you have any figures that point towards the fact that higher prices and a less user-friendly interface will actually increase revenue, even if it does deter a certain percent of pirates?

You mentioned that the piracy to payment ratio was something like 5000:1 on the most popular videos, if you say so I believe it, but you do realize that this doesn't mean that the 5000 people who pirated the video would've bought it if piracy wasn't an option? I don't think there are any studies that support this notion that they would, and in fact I think it is very difficult or impossible to know what revenue would be like if the practice of internet piracy didn't exist altogether, one can only speculate.

Now, the fact that you feel robbed, and that you are hurt that these people download your videos without paying for them and think that they can just take what they want is one thing, and you might want to stop this on a personal level, I understand where you are coming from with that, but you keep coming back to the fact that CA must survive financially. I understand that CA is very personal to you, but I do think that these two issues are separate in this context. I think the measures you are talking about taking in this thread works more towards the first of these two goals, possibly even to such a degree that the second goal is overlooked. If you don't feel like running CA anymore because you feel that people are greedy bastards, then that's your prerogative, but I don't think shutting it down will make anyone happy, including yourself.

I realize you can't take a stand FOR piracy in a forum like this and expect not to get flamed to a pulp, and really I don't take a stand for or against here but I think it is an interesting issue, and I think it is about much more than greedy people who don't feel like paying for stuff. Sure, there are people like that in the midst of it all, but the core of the issue lies in how media should be distributed in the age of the internet and it affects everyone, pirate or not. The technology has developed too quickly and no one has been able to figure out the optimal business models and channels for media promotion, distribution or sales in this new environment yet, and you are stuck in the middle of the chaos that ensues. It's a revolution of sorts, but it will blow over when people start working things out and start going with the grain instead of against it. What I'm trying to say with that is that you have a chance to be at the forefront of this new wave of entertainment (and education) if you put your energy in working towards new and better solutions that work, instead of protecting and fighting for old ones that don't.

[artixfoxeye]

wow... I understand why people steal content, because they don't want to pay... Stupid people they're destroying everything that's good about this site... It sucks that they have to ruin the download content. Downloaded tut's are much better than streaming but... I guess you guys have to do whatever you can to help stop them peoples.

[neuroballistic]

I would really hate to see this site fail because of piracy. I sincerely mean that...this IS the best site out there for artists, hands down, you guys give your heart and souls to make it what it is and it shows. But, I find myself hesitating on buying my next download knowing that I won't be able to refer back to it later like I do with all the other instructional videos that I own. That's an important buying point for me, that I can take my thumb drive or disk to work and watch these videos on my lunch break...or even on the plane, etc.

It sucks for everyone except the people that steal...they'll just simply do a video capture.

I pay $30 bucks a year for CGsociety, but CA has so much more to offer than any other site out there...

[neuroballistic]

How in the hell did that happen!?

double post

[_Sir_]

One of the online schools doing education stuff has had NO torrents and their streaming classes are more than two hundred times what we sell these vids for. Life sure isn't fair huh?



If you're talking about gnomon, they have tons of torrents, they're just buried in the internet.

[neuroballistic]

Just started downloading Kemp Remillard's Vehicle Concepting I bought from the MB site!

Looks like it's still a download of a video file and not streaming...yet. Wasn't sure when I posted earlier...didn't read the whole thread.

Anywho, I hope this thing works out for the better and Jason can get back to doing other things with his time, instead of stressing out over this lame ass shit.

[Jason Manley]

Not sure what you mean. The Piracy game is over. Those who participate in piracy are dealt with immediately and legal quickly gets to work on those at the top of the list and work their way down. It is what it is. I have solved it. Those who argued against me were wrong, as I kept telling people over and over and over. CA will continue to handle piracy with focus and intensity. I do wish people would have believed me so they could have avoided dealing with the attorneys. I was not crying wolf. Unfortunately legal still has a grip of people to deal with.

I will no longer argue with the artists in this community about whether or not my eighteen months of successful efforts, research and development in the anti-piracy field are worth protecting their own rights or of those who create here.

That being said, solving the piracy issue has allowed us to hit the alpha stage with the new technology for ConceptArt.Org 4.0 as well as something very very very special which we are going to announce soon. This place is changing...and quickly. By the new year it will be brand new around here...and in all honesty, I believe the impact on the world of art and learning is going to be seen for a long long time. We are doing a good thing here...so thank you all for the support. Really. Thank you tons.


Issue resolved. Thread closed.



Jason


P.S. super thanks to my brother Kelly for helping me put an end to all this and for his efforts to sweep the old ones which sometimes remain, from the net. Without his help, I would not have been able to do it. Every once in a great while I am right about something...and in this case, stopping the piracy was one of them. It was a TON of work...and still is...but we did it. Thanks Kell! Really.





Jason,

I didn't read the entire thread, some of the posts on the early pages made me skip right to the end to comment. Maybe this has been brought up several times already but this is a really slippery slope, and I think you are setting yourself up for a crash landing with this attitude that it's either you or the internet pirates.

It's probably possible in some way to take measures to get rid of piracy more or less entirely, but at what price? You will have to sacrifice too much and the product will not only become uninteresting for a pirate but also for the paying end-user. Do you have any figures that point towards the fact that higher prices and a less user-friendly interface will actually increase revenue, even if it does deter a certain percent of pirates?

You mentioned that the piracy to payment ratio was something like 5000:1 on the most popular videos, if you say so I believe it, but you do realize that this doesn't mean that the 5000 people who pirated the video would've bought it if piracy wasn't an option? I don't think there are any studies that support this notion that they would, and in fact I think it is very difficult or impossible to know what revenue would be like if the practice of internet piracy didn't exist altogether, one can only speculate.

Now, the fact that you feel robbed, and that you are hurt that these people download your videos without paying for them and think that they can just take what they want is one thing, and you might want to stop this on a personal level, I understand where you are coming from with that, but you keep coming back to the fact that CA must survive financially. I understand that CA is very personal to you, but I do think that these two issues are separate in this context. I think the measures you are talking about taking in this thread works more towards the first of these two goals, possibly even to such a degree that the second goal is overlooked. If you don't feel like running CA anymore because you feel that people are greedy bastards, then that's your prerogative, but I don't think shutting it down will make anyone happy, including yourself.

I realize you can't take a stand FOR piracy in a forum like this and expect not to get flamed to a pulp, and really I don't take a stand for or against here but I think it is an interesting issue, and I think it is about much more than greedy people who don't feel like paying for stuff. Sure, there are people like that in the midst of it all, but the core of the issue lies in how media should be distributed in the age of the internet and it affects everyone, pirate or not. The technology has developed too quickly and no one has been able to figure out the optimal business models and channels for media promotion, distribution or sales in this new environment yet, and you are stuck in the middle of the chaos that ensues. It's a revolution of sorts, but it will blow over when people start working things out and start going with the grain instead of against it. What I'm trying to say with that is that you have a chance to be at the forefront of this new wave of entertainment (and education) if you put your energy in working towards new and better solutions that work, instead of protecting and fighting for old ones that don't.