DA officially does critique now.

[Psychotime]

[link] (http://help.deviantart.com/95/)

But ya gotta be a premium member. Lolz.

[LORD M]

But-but I thought it was all about asspats and buttkissing? Many rages will be had from snapesnoggers.


And the fact that you gotta PAYYYYYYY to be able to both give and recieve critique is laughable, but I didn't expect more from DA to be honest.

[ShroudStar]

What?

Critiques are for everyone, not just for people who can afford subscriptions. Oh man, DA - they are so going about this the wrong way.

[idoru]

Dude you could always critique couldn't you? You had the option of saying "critiques encouraged" or not.... Right? I seem to remember such an option. It's just 90% of people said "no". It looks like all they did was add a fancy system.

[r.mccabe]

I think the meant to say: subscriptions are low so please pay up.

[cmalidore]

Cause having a section for it will make people more inclined to do it? I critiqued just fine in the comment box, never bothered me any.... They really think that rating a person as "fair" or "unfair" actually makes a difference in the feedback?

ConceptArt gets better every day.

[Maridius]

It's in beta now and I'm hoping they open this for all the members since my watch list is dinky enough as it is without cutting off 3/4 of it from using the crit module.

[Max Challie]

I think the meant to say: subscriptions are low so please pay up.

What? They must get something out of all those annoying ads, so I have no idea why they'd require money for a 'better account' and some 'critique feature'. You don't need a 'feature' to give critique.

[HunterKiller_]

Ridiculous.

[Elwell]

Might as well shut this place down, no way we'll be able to compete...

[toddy]

paying to learn how to improve your art.

isn't that what college is for?

[Bill]

paying to learn how to improve your art.

isn't that what college is for?

No Comment

[Mock]

paying to learn how to copy anime better

isn't that what Naruto is for?

I fixed this for you. Because I like to help.

http://www.naruto-kun.com/images/gallery/178/naruto79.gif

[Bushido]

OMG, if i take this seriusly is damm sad :S

The sad is not DA, the sad is the people who support this type of thinking

When i see things like this i cant stop to think in this quote of William Bouguereau (http://www.artrenewal.org/museum/b/Bouguereau_William/bio1.asp)

"One shouldn't believe in all those so-called innovations. There is only one nature and only one way to see it. Nowadays, they want to succeed too fast, this is how they go about inventing new aesthetics, pointillism, pipisme! All this is just to make noise.

Each day I go to my studio full of joy; in the evening when obliged to stop because of darkness I can scarcely wait for the morning to come... if I cannot give myself to my dear painting I am miserable."

[HunterKiller_]

You know what they should've done?

You get paid to give critique.

Ya huh.

[Zweit]

Is this a joke? I mean, it's a little late for April Fools... How exactly do they plan on enforcing this? Do you get banned for giving a crit to someone without a premium account?

[Brushcommander]

637341

[Crane]

What the hell do they need to beta test?

I can only imagine the errors they would get

'You should learn anatomy, and shading and stop the anime until you build up the foundations a bit more'

>ERROR-NEGITIVE RESPONSE-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-PLEASE PRAISE ANIME-<

[l33t fl33t]

'You should learn anatomy, and shading and stop the anime until you build up the foundations a bit more'


Except, you know, the thing keeping them interested in art IS anime, and not art in general.

[Crane]

Then unless they wise up and see you can get nowhere by copying anime alone, they are fucked, you know, unless thats what they are actually going for, then all the best to them!

[l33t fl33t]

Then unless they wise up and see you can get nowhere by copying anime alone, they are fucked, you know, unless thats what they are actually going for, then all the best to them!

I think you're missing my point. What you're saying is along the lines:

"Well, unless they wise up and realize that they can't get anywhere just by playing rock songs on a guitar and start learning classical musical theory they're fucked."

My point being that:

a) art education has failed to keep up with the times, requiring the student to rely on traditional methods of education
b) keeping people interested in something is more important than anything else

[Darjan Jurincic]

we` re doomed!!!!

..no wait, they are..

[Crane]

I think you're missing my point. What you're saying is along the lines:

"Well, unless they wise up and realize that they can't get anywhere just by playing rock songs on a guitar and start learning classical musical theory they're fucked."

My point being that:

a) art education has failed to keep up with the times, requiring the student to rely on traditional methods of education
b) keeping people interested in something is more important than anything else

Well no, i'm not saying its bad that they want to do anime or its the only thing keeping them interested in art, i'm saying all the people who actually make great anime/manga art actually know the basic and advanced in anatomy, light and shade, color theory etc, this is why they make great anime art, don't get me wrong, i'm a big fan of anime, so i'm not putting it down, i'm just against the metality of 'i don't need to learn anatomy etc, all i need to do is copy the artists i love' cause without knowledge you've got very little to make you stand out.

[algenpfleger]

Crane is right =0

[Jason Rainville]

I remember making numerous posts in the suggestions forum about a dedicated area for critique (part of the forum) Every day there are more and more little art noobs about to start their journey who go to the art scene and ask for crits. What do they get there?

"Sorry wrong forum, you're sharing art so it has to go to the thumbshare."

So they take their art to the thumbshare forum, a pit of writhing pageview whores that want nothing more than to show their art in every thread they can no matter what the thread is about. No one responds to people who want critique there, but every so often there will be a thread titled "Come here for professional critiques!!11" So the poor little noob enters that thread for crits and gets:

"Oh cool I like the colours really nice you're doing good. I don't quite like snakes though so this gets a B-"

... the shit is that?

Then during one heated debate in the suggestions forum, one person said that none of the main boards are for critiques at all, you have to go to the categories to get crits on specific things.... the what? Here there are some kind of super secret subforums existing that are dedicated to anime, digital art etc. I've been there over a year and even after him describing how to get there, I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW TO GET THERE. How is a little art noob supposed to find it and get the info he needs?

So now after all that someone is going to pipe up and say "lolz now we have a FULL-ON crit function noob allz you have to do is spend money and makes sure you have lots of people watching your work who regularly comment and also make sure that some of those active watchers are at a higher level than you so that you don't just receive useless noob crits from other art noobs loooolz"


It's just one goddamn train wreck after another. Forget the fact that any person can give a critique no matter what already... except you can NEVER bring it to the forums to get a wider array of crits, oh no...

[l33t fl33t]

Well no, i'm not saying its bad that they want to do anime or its the only thing keeping them interested in art, i'm saying all the people who actually make great anime/manga art actually know the basic and advanced in anatomy, light and shade, color theory etc, this is why they make great anime art, don't get me wrong, i'm a big fan of anime, so i'm not putting it down, i'm just against the metality of 'i don't need to learn anatomy etc, all i need to do is copy the artists i love' cause without knowledge you've got very little to make you stand out.

Yes, but do keep the context in mind. Sure, master manga artists went through a lot of traditional schooling to get where they are. This tyke isn't interested in that route, so what now?

Improvise. Telling him to go the traditional route is likely to leave him disinterested. Thus the only logical option would be to adopt the traditional store of information to the situation. Here is where I think the "whats" become important:

What's the lesson to be learned from still life?
It sure as hell isn't how to become a master apple illustrator. No, it's something else. What? You answer that, and you can adapt the knowledge to the times. The kid doesn't need to draw apples anymore, he can learn the "what" by drawing something RELEVANT to his interests. This is monumentally important, because it keeps the student interested.

[Mr.Delicious]

Yes, but do keep the context in mind. Sure, master manga artists went through a lot of traditional schooling to get where they are. This tyke isn't interested in that route, so what now?

Improvise. Telling him to go the traditional route is likely to leave him disinterested. Thus the only logical option would be to adopt the traditional store of information to the situation. Here is where I think the "whats" become important:

What's the lesson to be learned from still life?
It sure as hell isn't how to become a master apple illustrator. No, it's something else. What? You answer that, and you can adapt the knowledge to the times. The kid doesn't need to draw apples anymore, he can learn the "what" by drawing something RELEVANT to his interests. This is monumentally important, because it keeps the student interested.

Yes. Draw an anime still life. If the kids can't handle doing work they don't want in order to further themselves then fuckkkk em!


and yea, paying to give crits is hilarious :D

[Sekino]

I'd have more respect for the site if they'd stop trying to cater to 'serious' artists and endorsed the fact that 95% of the site's purpose is visual fanfic for teenagers.

DA people know they are sitting on a goldmine (lots of obsessive people with disposable income). I know I was pretty fanish, hormonal and weird when I was 15 and I would be a hypocrite claiming that all drawings I did at that age were for art's sake (there were waay too many Duran Duran portraits ;P). So if fanish people want a place to exchange drawings and hold on to the thought that they're totally cool and lots of friends like them before real life kicks in, it's disturbingly normal, to some level.

But DA should stop acting like they offer any sort of help or hope for aspiring professional artists. That's just plain misleading and pointless. They're trying to reach out to two crowds that do not mix well.

Like hell I'd want to seriously critique someone as emotional and angsty as I was at 14-15, much less PAY for it. If they're ready for real art opinions, they will probably head this way and read the warnings. I do not want to be responsible for someone swallowing half a bottle of herbal pills because I insulted both their art and their OMG!favoritebest!thing-evaaar :P (sorry, I'm mean)

[TASmith]

I actually did a serious crit thread in their thumbshare once. It was exhausting, but a fun way to spend summer 2007. They didn't follow my rule though - to get me to crit, they were supposed to give one serious crit of another poster... I could link to it, if someone wants to revive it, although I imagine, the admin might see it now as a form of protest...

EDIT: wow, the system is just way too official - your crit has to be 100 words or more, you have to use their rubric, rating various traits, and how "devious" it is. Then the artist gets to rate it as fair or unfair, and you get sent some bullshit messages, then your total fair crits get numbers like pageviews, and it's another thing to w-hore about.

You could solve 90% of the issues with these kids just saying, study anatomy more. Get a book and a mirror and observe.

[l33t fl33t]

Yes. Draw an anime still life. If the kids can't handle doing work they don't want in order to further themselves then fuckkkk em!


Yes, it's prime time to turn an otherwise enjoyable activity into boring drudgery. How dare those dilettante-amateurs try to enjoy practicing!

They ought to suffer for their art, not enjoy it.

[Psychotime]

I could link to it, if someone wants to revive it, although I imagine, the admin might see it now as a form of protest...

Go for it!

[Brashen]

I once gave a crit to this girl about why her pose looks absurdly wrong....She said I have no idea what I'm talking about and that she had a model pose for her. I looked at the picture again and replied......you know Sephiroth?

[N D Hill]

You know, as much as I like to rag on DA for being a being a huge compost heap of lowest common denominator crap (with a few rare diamonds in it), I also have to acknowledge that it never claims to be anything else. Forums like conceptart.org and characterdesign.com have a very clear professional and educational focus. It's a tone that we choose to maintain because the founders have a very clear vision of the kind of resource they'd like to provide and most members have a clear idea of what they'd like to gain from participating here. DA makes no such assumptions. We really don't have a right to expect anyone there to be capable of giving a good, considered crit let alone be mature enough to take one. It's a vacuous environment. I really don't see how it's worthy of even negative attention. Yeah, it's bastion of bad taste, unoriginality and poor skill, but so is the real world.

...Now, the second their members come over here expecting the same treatment... Well, then they're fair game.

[Kiera]

I am getting messages of critiques on pictures that I don't know from artists that I don't know.. what?

When the crit thing will be public, I am awaiting the DA critique elite and a lot of funny drama and bawwing.. is there a popcorn smiley?

[OmenSpirits]

Yes. Draw an anime still life. If the kids can't handle doing work they don't want in order to further themselves then fuckkkk em!


and yea, paying to give crits is hilarious :D
you sir, have spoken the gospel. :)

[Grief]

bottom line: i want to see better art. if people get the know-how needed from subscribing to this on da, then so be it. i really hope those artists who spend their money get the advice to help them grow as artists. while i may not agree with deviantart on a number of topics, i am glad they are acknowledging the opportunity they can potentially provide on their website to offer such an experience as artists for their users. it is a shame they are charging for this service, but in time perhaps things may change.

i personaly offer to provide anyone an honest critique of their work through conceptart, whether in the critique center or not, should they send a private message to me requesting one.

[Kagemusha22]

Is this a joke? I mean, it's a little late for April Fools... How exactly do they plan on enforcing this? Do you get banned for giving a crit to someone without a premium account?

Probably knowing DeviantArt. I got perma-banned for telling someone who had a pretty offensive signature, that maybe they should reconsider it. (In case they caused more offense, and grief for other users) They flagged my comment as spam, I was banned in about 5 days.

That's just how DA rolls, you only have free-speech on your own profile page if you disagree with someone on their page they can get you banned for breaking the peace.

[DIMAGYAN]

why everyone compare conceptart with deviantart? as i see it, they are two diferent kind of sites trageting diferent users and visitors.

the curious thing is that i read about DA when i joined CA...there was a lot of threads about that site poping quite regular in here.

[Psychotime]

why everyone compare conceptart with deviantart?

Tell us who's doing that so we can harm them. And by "we", I mean everyone else.

[Arshes Nei]

So umm...it's another bitch about DA thread right? Nothing new. I guess CA is a good place to bitch about DA instead of not using it and keep using CA if you find it so offensive.

[Zweit]

Apparently they just got rid of the "crits welcomed/encouraged/not wanted" check box, and replaced it with a box that allows premium members to write crits in. But you need to be a premium member to get the box under your art in the first place.

¯\(°_o)/¯

[Aaron Death]

Those DA kids are amateurs. They don't want to be artists. They just do art to have fun. What's wrong with that. There are plenty of amateurish people who don't care about professionalism or whatever, they don't even want to improve, they just want to have to some fun.

I think the mistake of DA is try to have both amateurish and professional elements in them. So a lot of people who honestly try to improve are misled.

It should be named, "the ultimate amateur artists' anime site". Oops.

[Jacob Kobryn]

Some of the photographers on DA are absolutely brilliant. And many of the other artists as well. Most of you seem to forget that a huge majority of CA users also maintain a DA gallery for promotional purposes.

[Bushido]

I think this topic is going on a bad direction.

(I saw before this battles about DA, never a happy end...)

I better go draw... or paint :lifedrawing: :D

[Crane]

Yes, but do keep the context in mind. Sure, master manga artists went through a lot of traditional schooling to get where they are. This tyke isn't interested in that route, so what now?

Improvise. Telling him to go the traditional route is likely to leave him disinterested. Thus the only logical option would be to adopt the traditional store of information to the situation. Here is where I think the "whats" become important:

What's the lesson to be learned from still life?
It sure as hell isn't how to become a master apple illustrator. No, it's something else. What? You answer that, and you can adapt the knowledge to the times. The kid doesn't need to draw apples anymore, he can learn the "what" by drawing something RELEVANT to his interests. This is monumentally important, because it keeps the student interested.


The point is that whether its traditional schooling or completely self taught it ends up exactly the same thing, if they want to get anywhere they need to know what every professional artist has used every single bit of their time to learn and learn until they can recite it front to back, back to front, left to right, right to left and upside down in their sleep without any help at all.

It doesn't matter whether they are interested in some parts, hell nearly every serious artist gets bored sometimes while doing studies or color theory, even if its only for a moment. its like having a job, i find my job so damn boring but i don't quit because it is important to have, what matters is that i am able to pay my bills at the end of the month, keep a roof over my head and food in my stomach, what i'm saying if your not willing to suffer for what you love, you don't deserve to do it at all.

[Max Challie]

yeah.. I'm with Noel. Leave it alone, in my case with a closing line.. "sad", or something.

[Rist]

isn't that what college is for?

no, not really.

btw some of the comments on this thread are petty and elitist.

[Jason Rainville]

I think this topic is going on a bad direction.

(I saw before this battles about DA, never a happy end...)

I better go draw... or paint :lifedrawing: :D

I don't think the majority of us are cursing DA users, as the topic suggests we're cursing the management at DA. I just don't like kids being lead to think that these types of features can help you in any way.

[TASmith]

Plus, imagine the situation where a students sends a message to a really good professional artist on that site, asking for a crit. Normally, the person would comment if he had time and interest. Now, you might get messages like, "You don't have a premium account, i only crit premium members for my fair crit rating." etc. You never know.

[l33t fl33t]

The point is that whether its traditional schooling or completely self taught it ends up exactly the same thing, if they want to get anywhere they need to know what every professional artist has used every single bit of their time to learn and learn until they can recite it front to back, back to front, left to right, right to left and upside down in their sleep without any help at all.

Absolutely. However...


It doesn't matter whether they are interested in some parts, hell nearly every serious artist gets bored sometimes while doing studies or color theory, even if its only for a moment. its like having a job, i find my job so damn boring but i don't quit because it is important to have, what matters is that i am able to pay my bills at the end of the month, keep a roof over my head and food in my stomach, what i'm saying if your not willing to suffer for what you love, you don't deserve to do it at all.

You're forgetting that your reasons for doing art are radically different. It's a matter of motivation - they do it because they find it fun, you do it because it pays the bills. Your approach would we completely unsuited to their particular case.

As for "if you're not willing to suffer for it, you don't deserve to do it", I think that's more of an attempt at rationalizing another issue - "ie, if I suffered to get where I am today, it'd be unfair if others didn't suffer as well", in which case, I disagree - I believe art can be a leisure activity and something you can enjoy without suffering (and should, IMHO).

[DIMAGYAN]

Tell us who's doing that so we can harm them. And by "we", I mean everyone else.
well, maybe the word i should use before was some....or sometimes.
but to be honest in all this kind of threads about DA that form time to time keep poping on CA, there is an implicit(sometimes explicit) comparison between the two sites.
in any case to me is really peculiar

edit:i'm not exactly talking about the op topic but more about the discussion that came after

[Zweit]

It's not elitist to poke fun at DA. Like N D Hill said, it doesn't take itself seriously so why should anyone else? It's like getting your feelings hurt when someone makes fun of your favorite clown.

And I do in fact have an active DA account (http://zweit9.deviantart.com/) myself. I'm not afraid to laugh myself silly at some of the shit you find there, though.


I mean come on! (http://goodnews80.deviantart.com/art/naruto-with-our-Savior-109384124?offset=50#comments)

[Brashen]

Aye I use DA for the publicity....but now I link to my CA gallery ....thanks be to Jason and the others.

[Psychotime]

I mean come on! (http://goodnews80.deviantart.com/art/naruto-with-our-Savior-109384124?offset=50#comments)

Good lord. That's got to be a joke. That entire account HAS to be just a joke.

EDIT: Pun not intended.

[Dorkthrone]

Good lord. That's got to be a joke. That entire account HAS to be just a joke.

EDIT: Pun not intended.

It's either a joke, the greatest troll of all time, or completely serious.

[l33t fl33t]

I mean come on! (http://goodnews80.deviantart.com/art/naruto-with-our-Savior-109384124?offset=50#comments)

OH...MY...GOD. It's stuff like that that make a man feel satisfaction, wisdom and proof of sanity for being an atheist.

Seriously, here's a third (fourth?) opinion - somebody is trying to nab a couple of new sheep for the Church via Naruto.

EDIT:

Oh, and lets not forget this (http://tompreston.deviantart.com/art/Jesus-Hates-Dinosaurs-104300010).

[CGMonkey]

But-but I thought it was all about asspats and buttkissing? Many rages will be had from snapesnoggers.


And the fact that you gotta PAYYYYYYY to be able to both give and recieve critique is laughable, but I didn't expect more from DA to be honest.

Hmmmm... I took a peek at your previous posts, I arrived at January 2009 and didn't see ONE critique or constructive comment. The jungle of asspatting and buttkissing you've displayed are admirable, but it does make you a hypocrite.

[Crane]

Absolutely. However...



You're forgetting that your reasons for doing art are radically different. It's a matter of motivation - they do it because they find it fun, you do it because it pays the bills. Your approach would we completely unsuited to their particular case.

As for "if you're not willing to suffer for it, you don't deserve to do it", I think that's more of an attempt at rationalizing another issue - "ie, if I suffered to get where I am today, it'd be unfair if others didn't suffer as well", in which case, I disagree - I believe art can be a leisure activity and something you can enjoy without suffering (and should, IMHO).

I said that i do my job to get paid not my art. If you treat your passion as work then you will lose the passion and work will be all thats left.

I do my art for fun too, while i would love to be able to live off the money i make from my art, its purely for fun 1st and foremost, i do want a career in art and i will get there someday.

I want people to have fun doing there art, i rushed my answer so it came out a little wrong, what i mean is people who say they want to be the best in whatever field they choose but aern't willing to work hard for it, who just dismiss crits from people who know what they are talking about, and then go as far as to actually they that the professionals are wrong and are stupid while they are right. its like someone saying they can't get a girlfriend/boyfriend but won't even go and attempt to talk to whoever they like, so basicly its all whinging and no action. I would just like to see all these people who want to get somewhere back it up with some hard work and an open mind. and maybe suffer is a little harsh but you can get my drift.

[LORD M]

Hmmmm... I took a peek at your previous posts, I arrived at January 2009 and didn't see ONE critique or constructive comment. The jungle of asspatting and buttkissing you've displayed are admirable, but it does make you a hypocrite.

Might be so, but I try and give critique and constructive comments when I can - the problem is I am not so good at giving it as most people here - but atleast I try when I can. But I think I have critiqued and so a bit now and then, according to my memory. It's just that I feel out of my league on this site, and that maybe holds me back from giving it more then I would. Gotta get better on that.

But hey c'mon, you know what I meant when I said asspattings and buttkissings when I mentioned snapesnogger. I meant people that acted like her on deviantart.

[Craig D]

DA is just as cool and useful as CA.

as usefull as CA??

I think there's nothing wrong with DA and all such threads as these
should prob just be locked when they hit pg2.

but I think "as usefull as CA" is a lot misguided

[Elwell]

I think there's nothing wrong with DA and all such threads as these
should prob just be locked when they hit pg2.

How 'bout page 3?