The Bakery (CCThrom, Blackcherry, Arttorney)

[arttorney]

This is the WIP and development thread for the CHOW joint project of CCThrom, Blackcherry, and Arttorney which we like to call "Crumpets and PAIN."

We just started but some thumbnails should show up in here within a few days at the most. Thanks for checking in.

Here's a gratuitous image that I happened to have handy:
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[CCThrom]

Inspiration!

http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=278

[arttorney]

Inspiration- a little something old school out of 20,000 Leagues under the Sea
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References of steampunkish daily implements and gadgets: http://www.lehmans.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hansom_cab
http://www.steamlocomotive.info/ http://www.eraoftheclipperships.com/ http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/victlinks.htm
Wikipedia steampunk entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk
The Sage:
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The Protector
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[blackcherry]

Ok guys I've been doing some brainstorming on the characters and I made a start on some designs for 'The Sage'.

The idea I had from the description given was of a very old (wise) man, who due to his age is now confined to a chair due to the fact he can no longer walk. Therefore he now travels round in a mechanical chair which does his walking for him. I thought seen as we were going for a 'Steampunk' theme it could be quite cool. The chair can also fly and the legs fold up when this happens. It's controlled by two levers on his arm-rests and also has a protective cover to shield him when needed.

As for the guy himself, I'm thinking old and somewhat eccentric looking; long beard, wispy hair, likely white with his age. He has a frail bony frame as he barely eats. I've got him with goggles on, and one of the eyes is like enhanced, it can zoom in and out and always moves around scanning stuff so doesn't focus on anything for long. The other eye is covered by a dark lens so no one ever knows where he's looking yet he seems to see everything.

Not quite sure how to work in the non-sleeping thing... maybe it's something to do with his eyes or maybe he's part machine? or what he's searching for, maybe some kind of artifact?

Let me know what you think; Good, bad? Criticisms? Improvements?

Oh I found some good links for steampunk things too:

http://www.steampunk.republika.pl/arch/opedia.html
http://www.steampunklab.com/
http://mydisguises.com/2008/05/19/deconstructing-steampunk-designing-your-own-costume/

Also any ideas on what sort of style we're going for in the artwork?

Think I'm going to have a go at the technician next.

[CCThrom]

Hey Blackcherry, I can't see the images you post, so I'm guessing that you're not using the attachment manager? If not, can you please do so?

A couple more odd links...
http://www.scifimoviepage.com/art_steamboy.html
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/motorwhl/motorwhl5.htm

A terrific source of recent historical reference... Check out the reprints of "Manufacturer and Builder" starting about halfway through the results pages.
US Library of Congress online... search "steam" (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/f?magbell,berl,rbpebib,dag,papr,ngp,haybib,mmorse, ncpsbib,afcwip,wtc,wright:0:./temp/~ammem_MdFU:)

I'm starting with the Hero... since everything else relates back to her. Naturally still just trying out a bunch of looks.

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[blackcherry]

I changed my last post and attached the image so you should be able to see my design idea now.

I like your starting sketches for the hero. Looking good! I really like the top right head sketch and I also like her hair in the profile head sketch. The full bodies clothing sketch is nice too, though I imagine her more in a skirt.


I was thinking due to her having another 'dark side/alter ego' are we going to do two versions of her or? Have you ever seen Heroes the TV show? because her condition sort of reminds me of Nikki. If you haven't seen the show then don't worry.

Also any thoughts on how we're going to tackle this overall?

[CCThrom]

Thanks!

I'm not sure how we're going to divide up the tasks... I think for now let's get some more ideas on the table before we get to the nuts and bolts of "how".

I'm looking through some of the other sketchbooks, and of course there are a lot of different approaches. One thing they all seem to be doing is setting up a "mood board". So I'm taking a stab at that... as a place to start. Steampunkwise I prefer a less over-the-top approach... something similar-ish to the world as we know it. And I don't think we need to tighten up the whole idea first... I think the concept and backstory can grow out of these initial messing around sketches.

Blackcherry, I like how you've been doing a lot of thinking about the words of the brief... for this week, I'd say keep with more of the same.

Give me some feedback on the mood board... and feel free to make additions or disagree with the direction completely... it's just a starting point.

[arttorney]

Wow! You two have been busy. I'm back to California now and have another 4 drawings I did in pencil yesterday. I'll present them later this evening after I get them scanned, etc. I didn't have time to go photograph some of the Victorian houses in Prescott while I was there so I'm glad CC has tossed one of those into his mood board.

I'm still not sure whether I am favoring the western flavor of steampunk or the foggy London town version. That current little thumb of the Protector lugging around a couple of guns certainly wouldn't do in a Victorian drawing room mystery.

More mood setting:
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[arttorney]

I tend to agree that we can spend a week or so throwing out our ideas. It's very easy to blow it by getting locked into specific ideas too soon. Let's see where our mind takes us. I think the area where we can get the most wacky or over the top is the Sage character, because the brief specifically calls for the sage to be an outsider. This one I thumbnailed was supposed to be a bit of a Native American influence since I kind of gave her a Navajo looking dress but left off the squash blossom necklace and topped her off with a kind of Mexican or Guatemalan looking hat. I suppose somebody could get a lot more "outsider" than that. The Technician has some potential to be carrying some unusual gadgets but is otherwise probably kind of normal (or she wouldn't have gotten hired in the first place).

I went for a circa 1850s U.S. look on these below thumbs. The Rabble Rouser is dressed in a manner I saw on a portrait of Cornelius Vanderbilt. The Technician is dressed in a costume modeled after an outfit for a female tween out of 1840s France (on the theory that holding on to youthful patterns of dress might be one way a tom boy of that time might have defied dress conventions). The Shadow is dressed after the manner of Stephen Douglas in a portrait I found of him and the Hero is dressed in a dress an adult female might have worn in 1840s France.

I am not against putting the Hero in a less girly outfit. Laura Bullion, then girlfriend of Ben Kilpatrick (The Tall Texan), probably participated in the Great Northern Train Robbery dressed as a man. Not everybody back then dressed or lived in a sterotypical goody two shoes manner.
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I'll probably try another round of the six in a more Spanish American War/Edwardian vein this week.

[CCThrom]

Thanks Arttorney, yeah right now I've got at least 3 directions going here... as you said there's the foggy London-town, the American old west, and a less well defined military/industrial Steamboy/Castle in the Air thing.

But for now, I'm all for just throwing everything against the wall...

[arttorney]

The Industrial/air/steamboy/military form is something I was thinking about exploring in my Edwardian round of characters. I had already thought about putting the Shadow in a confederate uniform but I went another way.

Blackcherry's sage is totally in that neighborhood, though I agree that the chair flying by steam powered helicopter blade is quite a stretch. I think it is totally plausible that he has a balloon thing that he can deploy with a button and then an air screw propels him around in different directions. Their understanding of balloons was pretty advanced by that period. The same furnace that makes the steam could make the hot air for the balloon.

Airships are pretty cool, and would give us a chance to bust out some goggles, chronometers, and compasses.

[blackcherry]

Thanks for the mood board CC that was useful. I love Howl's Moving Castle and I favour the more crazy gadgets in the images. I'm personally leaning towards the more Industrial/air/steamboyfor the designs, I think that might be an interesting way to go with it and should allow us to be a bit more original and eccentric.

Arttourney, I think you're right about the Sage and Technician being the ones with the most wacky designs, maybe that's why I've gone for them first, lol. Though my Sage idea probably does need toning down a bit. I like the idea of the maybe him being able to launch his chair with some form of balloon. I think the chair itself could do with some refining too but its just an initial design.

I like your costume designs so far. I've been looking at some 'steampunk' style costumes that people have made and theres some really interesting ones, so I think we should use reference but maybe develop them too for some originality. Also if we do go the whole industrial/steamboy direction then being able to add some gadgets would be cool.

Anyways, here's some sketches I've done for the technician. Not as crazy as my sage. I've got her at around 19, tom boyish, very intelligent, maybe a bit geeky, boyish figure. I've styled her clothing to be more boyish, and i've gone easy on the gadgets, though I have added a magnifying lens eye piece for when she works :)

I was thinking though, due to her love for methods of transport and machinery that maybe she would have developed some make shift wings? If we do go down the whole industrial avenue, i think that might work well.

[arttorney]

Cool. Just to mix things up a bit, I've decided to crank out a series of rough thumbs of Boxer Rebellion types. Here is The Protector as a practitioner of Thirteen Tai Chi Sword and an attempt at the hero.
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Technician with a wagon wheel and a sage chopping
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Shadow, in a semi official looking costume and a rabble rouser playing a bit of dominos
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[arttorney]

Here's what got me thinking about the boxer rebellion. This is the Protector as a bare knuckle era prize fighter.
Note to team: I'm pushing out what I can as fast as I can because I must do actual work much of today, tomorrow, and Friday. During the weekend I will be having to hang out with family over in Arizona. I might be able to do a few more thumbnails in traditional media over there but wouldn't post them until Monday at the earliest. We will eventually need to decide when we should call it on the brainstorming. That will entail thinking about how long it takes to do things. If we are going to stick to the original plan, then we are talking about a couple of days of mailing time thrown in the mix even if we use Fed Ex or Express Mail. I could probably ink six characters and get them scanned & sent in about three days if I applied myself and didn't mind a little loss of sleep. I have about three day job deadlines and a hearing to do in that last week of April. If we go all digital, things change up a bit, but look at my thumbnails. In digital I can't be trusted with much more than the margins and labeling.
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[CCThrom]

Assuming we go with the original plan... and depending on what kind of surface you like to ink with, here's a trick that has worked for me in the past. If I send you pencils as a digital file, you can print them out on any paper you can jam through your printer. For example, I sometimes print my pencils out on watercolor paper and then work over that.

However we work though, you're probably still going to have to send digital files to Blackcherry. This is due at the end of April isn't it? Actually... not good. Hmmm... means pencils should be done next week, along with taxes, plus my wife is on spring break... not a good time for getting artwork done. Well, I'll have to figure something out.

[arttorney]

Taxes too. Yeah, that's the kind of stuff that got me worried. Well, we still got a couple of days this week to firm up the hows and wherefors. I can run regular Strathmore drawing paper through the printers I have and possibly a piece of 70 lb watercolor paper would go through, but bristol is out of the question. There are a lot of ways this can go, though. If we go digital, I get my best results on big old documents, 2500 pixels or more on a side (and dense). Otherwise I always seem to get these commodore 64 looking drawings. It's probably a no-brainer, but I am known to be the sort of blockhead who still needs to figure these things out the hard way.

Generally I ink on smooth bristol but I can manage on regular drawing paper. It just means no ink washes and careful not to poke the point of the nib through the paper.

If we go that way, I will want to know if the .jpeg file format will be acceptable to blackcherry (or .bmp). I can save a bunch of other ways but those are the two I usually use. (.png is also available.) My scanner generally gets 9" x 12" sheets as jpegs sized 2548 x 3510. For blackcherry: 9" x 12" is approximately A4 and I already know CCThrom is comfortable penciling at that size.

[blackcherry]

I'm a little confused here about what the plan is. I didn't realise we all had designated roles after the brainstorming stage. Do we? and what's mine if we do? I don't mind doing some digital colouring but it's not really my strong point and I don't know if I could manage all six characters in the time scale along with other things I've got going on this month. I wouldn't mind doing a bit of drawing/designing too, that would be cool. Anyway let me know!

[arttorney]

Well, that's kind of why we are now talking about this. CCThrom and I had been talking about how to work this with our respective strengths before when we were not sure if we would have another teammate. He is a much more sure hand at penciling than I am and I am set up to ink pretty fast if need be. We both have ways to color. When you came aboard, an element of uncertainty was introduced so we need to re-decide what everybody will do. Your designs have a lot of a sense of whimsy to them while CCThrom and I are more inclined toward down to Earth characters. If we each do two of the characters we will need to decide on a common motif, such as a color scheme or a secret society tattoo they all have, etc. so our various characters are obviously all in the same set. I am prepared to go either with the assembly line approach or the dividing up the characters approach. I think it is easier to make the characters have a uniform style of presentation through the assembly line approach, but that takes the fun out of it for a lot of people. If we go the way of dividing up the characters, then who wants to do which characters? I suspect, to a certain extent blackcherry (who I can see on here but who might not see this edit unless she refreshes) has already thrown her hat in the ring for the sage and technician characters. CCThrom has clearly put a lot of though into the Hero. I felt most comfortable working with the Shadow, personally. Maybe there is a clear way to divide these characters but we would still have to decide how to make sure they present as a unified set of characters.Anyway. I'll do it however people want. Just tell me by next Tuesday or Wednesday if I have to make two entire characters because it will take me a couple of weeks to do that reasonably well.

[CCThrom]

I will post more sketches shortly...

As Arttorney explained, between the two of us it was pretty clear how the workflow would happen... since I'm very comfortable with pencilling and he prefers inks. Color was always a bit up in the air... I'm capable of doing it, but it's not my strong point, and I'm not fast.

So with the addition of a third person, we have a few choices...

A) we can stick with the assembly-line approach, which means Blackcherry pretty much gets stuck with colors.

B) we modify the assembly line a bit... maybe Blackcherry and I split the color responsibilities.

C) we each take responsibility for 2 characters beginning-to-end. The main issue I have with this one, is that our 3 styles are pretty distinct from each other and consistency will be a problem.

Edit... and thanks for another option!
D) Blackcherry and I split the drawing part and Arttorney colors.

[arttorney]

Or, you two could draw and I color as a possibility. As long as I got lines to stay inside of, I can paint by numbers with the GIMP, Painter Essentials, or Photoshop Elements OK. There would still be some issues reconciling your two drawing styles.

[CCThrom]

Before I get to the sketchies... I just want to go on record as saying that overall I'd prefer to do some variation on the assembly line approach for consistency's sake... but I'm open to working out any sort of compromise. Let me know what you guys prefer. Frankly though I worry about consistency, as far as "life" goes it might be easier for me to work on 2 characters start-to-finish... since I wouldn't have to start immediately next week!

Broken up by character... my idea is they travel in a big zeppelin airship...

One more basic idea for Hero. She's a great pilot, and flies one of the 2 small reconnaissance planes.
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Protector... looks like the archetypal aviator-hero, but not the sharpest tool in the shed. He's the helmsman. I like Arttorney's idea for a bare-knuckles fighter too!
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Shadow... kinda slouchy and scruffy... also pilots a small plane, could be almost as good a flyer as Hero if he were more conscientious.
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I liked Blackcherry's Sage, but thought he ran the risk of being too "techy". I thought of him as being more mystic... having been in full Lotus so long he can't unhook his legs any more... moves around on a flying carpet. Then a more middle-approach... brought back the hot air balloon, which is fueled by his own ooh... mystic powers...
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Technician keeps the airship running... I based her very much on Blackcherry's concept mixed with Rosie the Riveter. I'm not as good with the steampunk-y bits and bobs though.
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Finally the Rabble Rouser... I saw as a kind of Bohemian self-professed radical. Someone dramatic and full of grand political/philosophical ideals but little real knowledge. He doesn't fly and hasn't got a role on the airship really... so he appointed himself "lookout".
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Whew - ok... take the weekend to think it over and post more stuff if you like... by early next week we should get down to making decisions on the characters and how we're going to break down the tasks.

[CCThrom]

Blackcherry - IF you and I do the drawing, I'm competent but slow with inks... I'm also good at matching other styles so I'm sure we could find a place to meet in the middle.

[arttorney]

I just wanted to say, you two are giving your thumbs tons of personality, and that is what puts the "character" in characters. For a late addition to the mood board: Here is Jake Kilrain, who went 72 rounds (!!!!!) with John L. Sullivan before his corner finally threw in the towel. (Kilrain wanted to go more BTW)
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[blackcherry]

Ok I just caught up on the forum about the whole assembly line thing. Having two characters each would probably work well for all of us but I don't think it would have the best outcome because of the consistency issue so I personally don't think we should go that way if we want all the characters to fit together well at the end.

I'd be happy to split the drawing with you CC and I'd also be more than happy to split the colouring too. My inking is ok but I wouldn't say i'm great at it, depends what sort of look we'd want. Also I can try and adapt my style to suit the look you guys want to take with the art.

I take it after easter weekend we're going to make some decisions to advance with?

Love the sketches CC, I'm going to get some more done tomorrow and the weekend, i've been really busy today and yesterday so haven't had chance to get much done. I'll throw my ideas in too and then we can look at what we've got.

I like your idea for the sage too, I think mine probably is techy for the look you're leaning towards. I might do a bit of a re-work on him taking into account your idea and see what happens. I really like your design for the hero though. I imagined the protector a bit different I think it's because when I though steampunk i leant more towards the whole Wild Wild West and crazy gadgets approach. I also love the rable rouster, it's not quite how i saw him but i think it's a great take on it :) and i think working them all into being aboard an airship is a good idea too.

Anyway I'll post some more over the next few days! Hope you guys have a good Easter!

[arttorney]

You have a great Easter too. All this talk of flying gave me another idea about how the Sage could fly. This is kind of a joke about an old TV show. I think the chair Sage as he is currently developing is much cooler.
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I'm sure we will find a way to work out roles just fine, and this thread is our chain of evidence about how involved everybody is in the process. We are gelling toward some good ideas.

I meet clients in AZ about ten AM Monday Mountain/Pacific time so I can probably go on the internet about 11 or 12 to weigh in if there is a discussion about directions on Monday. Then I would drive back to CA and the permanent internet connection, so I am fine to come to final decisions on Tuesday if that proves to be the day.

[CCThrom]

I should have some connection time either Monday or Tuesday to help make decisions.

[arttorney]

OK. I 'll check in again tomorrow in the hopes of seeing blackcherry's new drawings.

So far, I like CCThrom's second version of the hero the best. That one that I made is not dressed in a practical manner for adventuring but I think the aviator costume makes for a good combination of businesslike and attractive. I'm not sure about that aviator Protector because I just keep thinking about Monty Python for some reason. CCThrom's Shadow looks great. My Shadow was the only one of mine that I really liked, but he looks mildly creepy like he is Edgar Allen Poe's opium dealer or something. I think the shadow is going to be a fun character whichever way we go on that one. CCThrom's Rabble Rouser= awesome for rabble rousing but doesn't scream out to me as much about the gambling aspects. I couldn't really say how to fix that though. Rosie the riveter is cute. She looks like she would be the funnest one to hang out with, and might even have a still on board. On my Technician, I took the "people are not important" part too far and made her look pretty closed off. That's not necessarily consistent with "wears her heart on her sleeve."

The sage- I like the oldness aspects of blackcherry's sage and things like his pipe. The goggles might help a lot with the whole "don't really know where he is looking" thing. His drawback is that he doesn't necessarily look like he is some kind of foreigner. CCThrom's Sage has the foreigner thing going on, but we have to make sure he doesn't turn out to be too much of a cliche.

My sage's- well you kind of have to wonder how on Earth they ended up traveling with the rest of the group. There is no link that suggests itself the way the English looking Protector and East Indian looking Sage that CCThrom made seem to fit.

[blackcherry]

Quick post, sorry my drawings are not up yet I ended up being away over the weekend due to family visisitng so i haven't had much time to post. I'm just finishing my designs off now so they should be up later today!

[blackcherry]

Here are my designs for all the characters for you to have a look at.

The Line Up: I did this so I'd have an idea of how i saw the characters in relation to each other before i tackled them all separately.
I think the protector should be the biggest of them all. The others I just drew as I saw fit.

Heroine: I really like CC's heroine more than mine, but thought i'd have a go anyway. I experimented with some different clothing ideas and I think she should have goggles if she's to be a pilot. Also with her kind of having this whole alter-ego thing I think she should have some additional sketches for when this 'dark' part is in control? I'm not sure where you guys want to go with that.

Technician: I think mine looks a bit TOO young here but I was just trying to put across that she's short and young looking. I also think she needs to have more gadgets but you get the idea.

Shadow: I was going for a moody/broody look for him with a dark feel. If he knew the heroine at a time before she remembers maybe he's a bit of a shady character? Also Wasn't sure whether to go with a long jacket or not.

Sage: I reworked my previous design a bit so he's not so 'techy' and did a quick design sketch for a developed method of transport for him. I also gave him a walking stick so he can actually walk but not without aid.

Protector: - I saw a well build, muscular guy with a rugged appearance. Very protective of the heroine, Strong and able. A manual labour kind of guy. He'd probably have some sort of big weapon too.

Rable Rouser: I liked CC's design for him, but it wasn't quite how i pictured him. I was going for a kind of comical character who comes across as a bit of a show off. I've dressed him quite well, I like the top hat. I think he looks like someone who could be a gambler.

Let me know what you guys think of them. Also as a side note, I think maybe they could all do with a few more stempunk style gadgets/accessories.

[arttorney]

CC put some cool guns in the mood board we can give the hero. besides the possibility of pocketwatches or compasses, here are a few period gadgets we can give people to be holding:
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[CCThrom]

Hope you all had a nice break! We had a great weekend, but were very busy and I haven't had much time to think about this... still, our team seems to be converging here, so let's look at where we're at.

Overall premise:
We're in an alternate-technology history and we seem to be heading into early aviation territory. As an American, I naturally tend to think about the Wright brothers, WW1 era dogfights and barnstormers, Amelia Earhart, the age of zeppelins, etc. Of course, lot of this stuff is significantly later than turn-of-the-century... but since we're in steampunk fantasy-land, we can imagine an alternate history where aviation and heavy mechanization were developed much earlier. Perhaps lighter-than-air craft and clockwork automata were realized on a larger scale earlier on?

Arttorney's Boxer Rebellion influenced characters fit in perfectly well, particularly if we bring a bit more of an Asian or European Colonial spin to this.

The characters so far... feel free to add words as appropriate.

The Hero: So far we've got a strong young woman, a young captain or perhaps even an officer... an aviator, think "Amelia Earhart".

The Protector: A strong and burly man... perhaps an ex-prizefighter or similar? Maybe he's a relative or legal guardian?

The Shadow: A scruffier, surly, male version of the hero... a guy that wants to be important and in on whatever's going on, but also a classic underachiever.

The Technician: A smaller, fairly young woman... I was thinking cheerful and unpretentious... kinda geeky but caring. My version is a little overweight.

The Sage: My idea to blend him into the group is that he's a Colonial-era English-educated mystic. Think Jules Verne's "Captain Nemo". Perhaps he's a true mystic as in "The Shadow" who feels that whatever the group is doing is spiritually important... or perhaps he's a charlatan who sees some profit in it. Blackcherry's Sage is moving in a Mr. Miyagi or Yoda-ish direction, which is fine by me.

The Rabble Rouser: Actually, my version and Blackcherry's version are not that far apart. I thought of him also as being a bit of a flashy, dramatic showoff. I was thinking a bit more of an academic, artistic radical... and maybe Blackcherry is thinking more along the lines of a gambler and showman... but really, we're pretty close.

So again, feel free to add words to this... maybe we can build up a sort of word-description version of the mood board?

[arttorney]

The Hero: So far we've got a strong young woman, a young captain or perhaps even an officer... an aviator, think "Amelia Earhart". As mentioned, we may want to do the dark side look at her as well as the light side. Still, in her aviator outfit she could look both ways at the same time. Perhaps she has a pearl handled revolver on her hip and looks like she knows how to use it.

The Protector: A strong and burly man... perhaps an ex-prizefighter or similar? Maybe he's a relative or legal guardian? Good point. If he kind of found the Hero in a memory compromized state, and he didn't just steal her airship or whatever she has, then either: 1. he is a really nice guy, 2. he is a relative/guardian/trustee, or 3. the Shadow has enough on the ball to stand up to him somehow. The middle way is the way that does not detract from Protector's toughness.

The Shadow: A scruffier, surly, male version of the hero... a guy that wants to be important and in on whatever's going on, but also a classic underachiever. I think we are doing great on this guy. How does he disappear for time periods without getting left behind by the aviators? He probably has friends or resources on the side. Does he have some way to contact those guys, e.g. a little helioscope or carrier pigeons?

The Technician: A smaller, fairly young woman... I was thinking cheerful and unpretentious... kinda geeky but caring. My version is a little overweight. I think we can put her in a pretty cool context if we make a little block and tackle airship rigging she is working on or something to that effect. (Maybe like the stuff that is holding a major airship gondola onto the gas bag above, though it would also have a retro nautical rigging feel to it. I'm not talking about rendering the whole ship or anything but perhaps just a gunwale and bit of rigging that she is working on.)

The Sage: My idea to blend him into the group is that he's a Colonial-era English-educated mystic. Think Jules Verne's "Captain Nemo". Perhaps he's a true mystic as in "The Shadow" who feels that whatever the group is doing is spiritually important... or perhaps he's a charlatan who sees some profit in it. Blackcherry's Sage is moving in a Mr. Miyagi or Yoda-ish direction, which is fine by me. This is the easiest place to work in an Asian character, unless they all are Asian. The Boxer Rebellion was a xenophobic movement, but not all the Chinese felt uniformly since some had converted to Christianity (and then there were the other areas of european colonialism in southeast asia).

The Rabble Rouser: Actually, my version and Blackcherry's version are not that far apart. I thought of him also as being a bit of a flashy, dramatic showoff. I was thinking a bit more of an academic, artistic radical... and maybe Blackcherry is thinking more along the lines of a gambler and showman... but really, we're pretty close. I think they can be reconciled. This guy has some ability to charm, but also apparently rubs some people the wrong way. A guy with skill at gambling and radical political beliefs could probably do both of those things by turns. What's his game? Whist? Faro? Running a praying mantis fighting ring with the Sage?

[CCThrom]

The Hero: So far we've got a strong young woman, a young captain or perhaps even an officer... an aviator, think "Amelia Earhart". As mentioned, we may want to do the dark side look at her as well as the light side. Still, in her aviator outfit she could look both ways at the same time. Perhaps she has a pearl handled revolver on her hip and looks like she knows how to use it. Yeah, she should definitely be armed... I don't think the "dark version" needs to look physically different, this can be done more by expression and the look in her eyes.

The Protector: A strong and burly man... perhaps an ex-prizefighter or similar? Maybe he's a relative or legal guardian? Good point. If he kind of found the Hero in a memory compromized state, and he didn't just steal her airship or whatever she has, then either: 1. he is a really nice guy, 2. he is a relative/guardian/trustee, or 3. the Shadow has enough on the ball to stand up to him somehow. The middle way is the way that does not detract from Protector's toughness. The only problem is that would mean he's connected to the Hero "from before" so maybe that wouldn't work. I'm thinking he's naive and simple, a guy that "could've been a contendah" and a good person that really doesn't have the mind to try and take over the show... maybe a few too many blows to the head or a manager that double-crossed him... maybe he met the Hero in a VA ward or something like that. Now he sees the Hero and the quest as a way to grab onto the glory that he missed.

The Shadow: A scruffier, surly, male version of the hero... a guy that wants to be important and in on whatever's going on, but also a classic underachiever. I think we are doing great on this guy. How does he disappear for time periods without getting left behind by the aviators? He probably has friends or resources on the side. Does he have some way to contact those guys, e.g. a little helioscope or carrier pigeons? I thought of the airship as having 2 small reconnaissance/combat planes attached to it (like the "skiff" from "Treasure Planet"). The Hero flies one and the Shadow flies the other. from time to time, he can just take off. Or maybe he just disappears whenever they're "in port"?

The Technician: A smaller, fairly young woman... I was thinking cheerful and unpretentious... kinda geeky but caring. My version is a little overweight. I think we can put her in a pretty cool context if we make a little block and tackle airship rigging she is working on or something to that effect. (Maybe like the stuff that is holding a major airship gondola onto the gas bag above, though it would also have a retro nautical rigging feel to it. I'm not talking about rendering the whole ship or anything but perhaps just a gunwale and bit of rigging that she is working on.) Yeah, that's very much what I was thinking... maybe in addition, this airship has a complicated internal steam boiler system for hot air and propulsion?

The Sage: My idea to blend him into the group is that he's a Colonial-era English-educated mystic. Think Jules Verne's "Captain Nemo". Perhaps he's a true mystic as in "The Shadow" who feels that whatever the group is doing is spiritually important... or perhaps he's a charlatan who sees some profit in it. Blackcherry's Sage is moving in a Mr. Miyagi or Yoda-ish direction, which is fine by me. This is the easiest place to work in an Asian character, unless they all are Asian. The Boxer Rebellion was a xenophobic movement, but not all the Chinese felt uniformly since some had converted to Christianity (and then there were the other areas of european colonialism in southeast asia). If we go with this idea, ALL the characters would be Asian... it's an interesting thought, but not one I would be real comfortable with... only because we would be working with a culture and history I know little about.

The Rabble Rouser: Actually, my version and Blackcherry's version are not that far apart. I thought of him also as being a bit of a flashy, dramatic showoff. I was thinking a bit more of an academic, artistic radical... and maybe Blackcherry is thinking more along the lines of a gambler and showman... but really, we're pretty close. I think they can be reconciled. This guy has some ability to charm, but also apparently rubs some people the wrong way. A guy with skill at gambling and radical political beliefs could probably do both of those things by turns. What's his game? Whist? Faro? Running a praying mantis fighting ring with the Sage? Good ideas! I was thinking along the lines of a card sharp... cards or dice are easy to travel with. Maybe he's a huckster that carries loaded dice, sells memberships to bogus political groups, or collects for "local charities".

[arttorney]

The Hero: So far we've got a strong young woman, a young captain or perhaps even an officer... an aviator, think "Amelia Earhart". As mentioned, we may want to do the dark side look at her as well as the light side. Still, in her aviator outfit she could look both ways at the same time. Perhaps she has a pearl handled revolver on her hip and looks like she knows how to use it. Yeah, she should definitely be armed... I don't think the "dark version" needs to look physically different, this can be done more by expression and the look in her eyes.I'm ready to stand pat here.

The Protector: A strong and burly man... perhaps an ex-prizefighter or similar? Maybe he's a relative or legal guardian? Good point. If he kind of found the Hero in a memory compromized state, and he didn't just steal her airship or whatever she has, then either: 1. he is a really nice guy, 2. he is a relative/guardian/trustee, or 3. the Shadow has enough on the ball to stand up to him somehow. The middle way is the way that does not detract from Protector's toughness. The only problem is that would mean he's connected to the Hero "from before" so maybe that wouldn't work. I'm thinking he's naive and simple, a guy that "could've been a contendah" and a good person that really doesn't have the mind to try and take over the show... maybe a few too many blows to the head or a manager that double-crossed him... maybe he met the Hero in a VA ward or something like that. Now he sees the Hero and the quest as a way to grab onto the glory that he missed.True. From what I've seen in court, if this guy has any official relationship with Hero and he doesn't like anybody else in the group, he'll just use the court system to kick them out of Hero's life. The brief tends to imply that he is a really nice guy to the Hero, but not necessarily so to everybody. Maybe he's got a bit of Hero worship going on. As you say, this group is his last big chance chance to do something other than be a bartender.

The Shadow: A scruffier, surly, male version of the hero... a guy that wants to be important and in on whatever's going on, but also a classic underachiever. I think we are doing great on this guy. How does he disappear for time periods without getting left behind by the aviators? He probably has friends or resources on the side. Does he have some way to contact those guys, e.g. a little helioscope or carrier pigeons? I thought of the airship as having 2 small reconnaissance/combat planes attached to it (like the "skiff" from "Treasure Planet"). The Hero flies one and the Shadow flies the other. from time to time, he can just take off. Or maybe he just disappears whenever they're "in port"? Or both. I basically think we know what we will do for this guy.

The Technician: A smaller, fairly young woman... I was thinking cheerful and unpretentious... kinda geeky but caring. My version is a little overweight. I think we can put her in a pretty cool context if we make a little block and tackle airship rigging she is working on or something to that effect. (Maybe like the stuff that is holding a major airship gondola onto the gas bag above, though it would also have a retro nautical rigging feel to it. I'm not talking about rendering the whole ship or anything but perhaps just a gunwale and bit of rigging that she is working on.) Yeah, that's very much what I was thinking... maybe in addition, this airship has a complicated internal steam boiler system for hot air and propulsion? ready to stand pat on this one. We can probably stick her in the boiler room and put somebody else out on deck for flavor.

The Sage: My idea to blend him into the group is that he's a Colonial-era English-educated mystic. Think Jules Verne's "Captain Nemo". Perhaps he's a true mystic as in "The Shadow" who feels that whatever the group is doing is spiritually important... or perhaps he's a charlatan who sees some profit in it. Blackcherry's Sage is moving in a Mr. Miyagi or Yoda-ish direction, which is fine by me. This is the easiest place to work in an Asian character, unless they all are Asian. The Boxer Rebellion was a xenophobic movement, but not all the Chinese felt uniformly since some had converted to Christianity (and then there were the other areas of european colonialism in southeast asia). If we go with this idea, ALL the characters would be Asian... it's an interesting thought, but not one I would be real comfortable with... only because we would be working with a culture and history I know little about.I think the all asian idea would be very difficult to pull off in this time frame, e.g. 2 1/2 weeks. Other people are kind of working on one or more characters in that vein. The airship idea seems to be our core direction.

The Rabble Rouser: Actually, my version and Blackcherry's version are not that far apart. I thought of him also as being a bit of a flashy, dramatic showoff. I was thinking a bit more of an academic, artistic radical... and maybe Blackcherry is thinking more along the lines of a gambler and showman... but really, we're pretty close. I think they can be reconciled. This guy has some ability to charm, but also apparently rubs some people the wrong way. A guy with skill at gambling and radical political beliefs could probably do both of those things by turns. What's his game? Whist? Faro? Running a praying mantis fighting ring with the Sage? Good ideas! I was thinking along the lines of a card sharp... cards or dice are easy to travel with. Maybe he's a huckster that carries loaded dice, sells memberships to bogus political groups, or collects for "local charities". Ha Ha! I am seeing Al Pacino in a white suit saying "I, Tony Montana, am political refugee. I working in an anti-Castro group. I get a lot of political donations." Seriously though, as between cards or dice, I think the backs of cards would give a better chance to put design motifs into the image. Dice are dice, and other than that they don't pack much eye candy potential.

Edit about Logistics: We will also have to nail down ASAP what everybody is going to do. We only have a couple of weeks now so it is probably about time to start the finals.

[blackcherry]

Yikes, I missed page 2 when I checked earlier today and yesterday. I was beginning to think no one had posted and now I've realised it was me being dumb, sorry!

I've read through what you've both wrote so I'll just add my views then I think we need to lay down who's going to do what and start getting the final drawings of the characters on the go.

Also any comments on my character designs? as I'm not sure what you guys thought of them so I can get an idea if mine look or fit any of your images of the characters or am I way off track.

---------

The Hero: So far we've got a strong young woman, a young captain or perhaps even an officer... an aviator, think "Amelia Earhart". As mentioned, we may want to do the dark side look at her as well as the light side. Still, in her aviator outfit she could look both ways at the same time. Perhaps she has a pearl handled revolver on her hip and looks like she knows how to use it. She should definitely be armed... I don't think the "dark version" needs to look physically different, this can be done more by expression and the look in her eyes.
I'm quite happy to go along with this, maybe a slight physical difference though? e.g. maybe her darker self prefers to wear her hair down or something along those lines? I think there should be some indication when her 'darker' self is in control.


The Protector: A strong and burly man... perhaps an ex-prizefighter or similar? Maybe he's a relative or legal guardian? Good point. If he kind of found the Hero in a memory compromized state, and he didn't just steal her airship or whatever she has, then either: 1. he is a really nice guy, 2. he is a relative/guardian/trustee, or 3. the Shadow has enough on the ball to stand up to him somehow. The middle way is the way that does not detract from Protector's toughness. The only problem is that would mean he's connected to the Hero "from before" so maybe that wouldn't work. I'm thinking he's naive and simple, a guy that "could've been a contendah" and a good person that really doesn't have the mind to try and take over the show... maybe a few too many blows to the head or a manager that double-crossed him... maybe he met the Hero in a VA ward or something like that. Now he sees the Hero and the quest as a way to grab onto the glory that he missed.True. From what I've seen in court, if this guy has any official relationship with Hero and he doesn't like anybody else in the group, he'll just use the court system to kick them out of Hero's life. The brief tends to imply that he is a really nice guy to the Hero, but not necessarily so to everybody. Maybe he's got a bit of Hero worship going on. As you say, this group is his last big chance chance to do something other than be a bartender.
I saw the protector as a strong, kind hearted man who doesn't like to see a woman in distress. I imagined him taking the hero under his wing because she was in a vunerable position and he just wanted to her out. I see him as a hard working, large muscular man who's very over protective over her. I could see him being an ex-prize fighter. Maybe he has a deeper reason for helping the hero. For example maybe she reminds him of a lost loved one? I don't know I'm just specularting. I imagine he would have met her by finding her lost.

The Shadow: A scruffier, surly, male version of the hero... a guy that wants to be important and in on whatever's going on, but also a classic underachiever. I think we are doing great on this guy. How does he disappear for time periods without getting left behind by the aviators? He probably has friends or resources on the side. Does he have some way to contact those guys, e.g. a little helioscope or carrier pigeons? I thought of the airship as having 2 small reconnaissance/combat planes attached to it (like the "skiff" from "Treasure Planet"). The Hero flies one and the Shadow flies the other. from time to time, he can just take off. Or maybe he just disappears whenever they're "in port"? Or both. I basically think we know what we will do for this guy.
I think my drawing of the shadow sums up my opinion of him. I see him as a pretty shady character who not much is known about. He's fairly anti-social and broods. I could see him as being a bit of a double agent.

The Technician: A smaller, fairly young woman... I was thinking cheerful and unpretentious... kinda geeky but caring. My version is a little overweight. I think we can put her in a pretty cool context if we make a little block and tackle airship rigging she is working on or something to that effect. (Maybe like the stuff that is holding a major airship gondola onto the gas bag above, though it would also have a retro nautical rigging feel to it. I'm not talking about rendering the whole ship or anything but perhaps just a gunwale and bit of rigging that she is working on.) Yeah, that's very much what I was thinking... maybe in addition, this airship has a complicated internal steam boiler system for hot air and propulsion? ready to stand pat on this one. We can probably stick her in the boiler room and put somebody else out on deck for flavor.
I definately see her as small and geeky, but I also see her as being the youngest member of the team who's rather skinny and tom-boyish in appearane. I think she should be working on something which can be clearly seen as a vehicle/plane or whatever.

The Sage: My idea to blend him into the group is that he's a Colonial-era English-educated mystic. Think Jules Verne's "Captain Nemo". Perhaps he's a true mystic as in "The Shadow" who feels that whatever the group is doing is spiritually important... or perhaps he's a charlatan who sees some profit in it. Blackcherry's Sage is moving in a Mr. Miyagi or Yoda-ish direction, which is fine by me. This is the easiest place to work in an Asian character, unless they all are Asian. The Boxer Rebellion was a xenophobic movement, but not all the Chinese felt uniformly since some had converted to Christianity (and then there were the other areas of european colonialism in southeast asia). If we go with this idea, ALL the characters would be Asian... it's an interesting thought, but not one I would be real comfortable with... only because we would be working with a culture and history I know little about.I think the all asian idea would be very difficult to pull off in this time frame, e.g. 2 1/2 weeks. Other people are kind of working on one or more characters in that vein. The airship idea seems to be our core direction.
Due to the sage being 'from other parts' I think we could work him in as being asian if that's what you guys want to do. I think my design would work quite well as a little chinese looking guy. He might need a change to his outfit as he is rather mystical for what we're leaning towards now.

The Rabble Rouser: Actually, my version and Blackcherry's version are not that far apart. I thought of him also as being a bit of a flashy, dramatic showoff. I was thinking a bit more of an academic, artistic radical... and maybe Blackcherry is thinking more along the lines of a gambler and showman... but really, we're pretty close. I think they can be reconciled. This guy has some ability to charm, but also apparently rubs some people the wrong way. A guy with skill at gambling and radical political beliefs could probably do both of those things by turns. What's his game? Whist? Faro? Running a praying mantis fighting ring with the Sage? Good ideas! I was thinking along the lines of a card sharp... cards or dice are easy to travel with. Maybe he's a huckster that carries loaded dice, sells memberships to bogus political groups, or collects for "local charities". Ha Ha! I am seeing Al Pacino in a white suit saying "I, Tony Montana, am political refugee. I working in an anti-Castro group. I get a lot of political donations." Seriously though, as between cards or dice, I think the backs of cards would give a better chance to put design motifs into the image. Dice are dice, and other than that they don't pack much eye candy potential.
You can see how i picture him, which I think would suit a gambling radical, sounds like a good direction to go to me. I see him as a card player, but he could do cards and dice. If he loves gambling i doubt it would make a difference to him. I think he could be a bit of con-artist and cheat as well, thus how he always seems to land in trouble. I think he should be drawn with some cards.

Edit about Logistics: We will also have to nail down ASAP what everybody is going to do. We only have a couple of weeks now so it is probably about time to start the finals.
I'm definately all for this! I've got other things to get done towards the end of this month too so i'd like to make a start on my part as soon as possible. The sooner we start the more time we'll have to discuss our work throughout to make sure we're all happy with the end result.

[arttorney]

For a second there I thought we had lost you. I just went back and recapped the people in Puss N Boots and Mary of the Blue Lights who got over 30% and I can see that realistic or stylized seem to do about equally well. In Puss N Boots I note that CCThrom did a somewhat stylized character that reminds me some of your style, so I know he could adapt to your style if you penciled. (@ blackcherry)

What I am seeing in blackcherry's characters is a youthful exuberant style, while CCThrom kind of pencils the way I wish I could sometimes. The characters have such personality and tend toward realism.

Right now, in the other threads, I am seeing a couple of groups that are going to be very competitive in the realism department but I haven't seen as many groups that would be top tier competitive in stylized. I'm inclined to have blackcherry start these out because I think we might be able to corner the stylized market easier than the realistic one in the poll. (of course I haven't seen what Entdriod's group is doing as yet.)

CCThrom and I could interchangeably ink or color.

[CCThrom]

Good points, there are a number of teams that could kick my pencils if I tried to compete on their turf... but I think we at least stand a chance if we go stylized.

So yeah while it's not how I'd "want" to break this up... I'm thinking maybe we let Blackcherry cut loose on some stylized designs. Maybe I can help out, maybe not necessary. Arttorney and I can work the finals.

A little direct feedback since you missed some of the brainstorming... In general I like your designs and here are a few thoughts.

Hero: I think you've got her a little too youthful and frilly. Try mixing in a bit more no-nonsense industrial or military costume.

Protector: seems too generic "video game big guy" to me... maybe push him more towards Arttorney's fistfighter.

Technician: I like a lot, maybe not quite so young... I'm kinda partial to my Rosie's baggy industrial coveralls, but no biggee there. Go nuts with the gadgets.

Shadow: Maybe you can mix my scruffy pilot with your sneaky spy-guy.

Sage: He's good, but you can really push the Asian elements now. He reminds me of Yoda... maybe we can run with that?

Rabblerouser: I think a mix of yours and mine will work well... maybe something like my guy with the long hair and sunglasses, plus your tophat and heavy coat? Some cards sticking out of his pockets?

Hope that helps... 'later!

[CCThrom]

Oh yeah, I don't know what Entroid and Co are up to either, but they are pretty much ALL excellent at stylized/vector so I'd figure on that...

[arttorney]

Yeah. I have mixed feelings about half-shortened pants on the Hero and/or Technician. On the one hand they kind of remind me of Tank Girl, which is very cool. On the other hand, female dress codes (and in fact male ones for that matter) were so uptight in the timeframe steampunk seeks to depict, that if we go putting shorts on people we give out mixed messages. If you really want to use that look I am OK with it as an alternative universe Tank Girl like scenario.

(It's just kind of like: when was the last time you saw a picture of a boxer wearing long pants? Those folks were uptight back in the day. We're not uptight now though, and today's people will be voting the poll.)

[blackcherry]

Ok I'll make a start on some of the final designs then, taking into account what CC comments on my previous designs. I think I'll start with the sage and the rable rouser and go from there.

What is the time frame we're looking at exactly and the style of clothing so I can look it up to better adjust my costumes? If you have an exact costume idea you think will work then do a quick drawing or link me to an image and i'll use that.

Also any ideas for poses for all the characters? If you've got a particular idea and want to do a quick sketch/thumbnail of it then post it and i'll use it, if not i'll just set something up and show you guys before i finish the drawing. I'm thinking of going for something similar to my original pose for the rable rouser, not sure about the sage yet.

CC I'd be happy to work with you on the character drawing if you do fancy helping out, even if you just want to help with posing, costume designs etc.

Anyway, I'll make a start and post my progress so I can get feedback and make any necessary developments/adjustments.

[arttorney]

Oh. I just think that the jumpsuit variations we have been seeing in CCThrom's designs will be fine for costumes.

I have been trying pretty hard to figure out how to get some fun into this for everybody while not making anybody do anything they are not sure they can do well. It's a tough nut to crack. Last night I remembered that the rules say we can do multiple sets if we dare. I had thought then that we could do one set of stylized and one set of realistic for the same fundamental characters. Though it seems like extra work, in a way, it just prevents CCThrom and I from hanging around and doing nothing while you get the characters started. While each of you start characters I could work up some sets such as boiler room, town, wheelhouse, airship deck etc. that somebody could drop characters into.

Here's the specific rule I am talking about:
* Can be changed according to genre. ie, mechanical = magical = steampowered, car = boat = horse, etc.
** You may do two version of this, if you wish.


We must finish by when April 30 has expired in the world. That would be well into May 1 for you. There are two weekends remaining in that time. That looks like one weekend for the initial rendering up of characters and one weekend for finishing touches (with week days for coordinating and whatever work can get done). From what I saw, it looks like you go from your pencil roughs straight to digital. Maybe you can grayscale your characters while CC pencils and then CC colors yours while I ink and color CCs, and you be in charge of framing and saving them as the right file name however fast CC and I can get each one done.

TeamChow_TeamName_Image001.jpg
Thus ours would be something like TeamChow_CrumpetsandPAIN_Image001.jpg et seq.

Does anybody think this ambitious plan is possible?

[blackcherry]

The only character it says we can do two versions for is the hero due to her two personalities, which i think we should do. As for the others I think we should stick to doing one set. I'll start the sketches and happily work alongside CC (if he wants to work on the drawings too so no one's left doing nothing) to make any changes/adjustments/developments or whatever so we get the characters out looking as we want them.

Then I take it you're going to ink them? cos if i colour it before inking how are you going to ink it? Also are we all working on the colouring?

While I'm starting the sketches working on backdrops sounds like a good idea too as thats also not one of my strong points. Also any ideas for poses, possible gadgets any reference pictures for costumes etc i'll welcome too.

[arttorney]

Right. that's why I was talking about the fact that you usually seem to go straight to digital from here. There's not really a point to ink them if that's the case. CCThrom is good at Photoshop while I suck at photoshop. You two could go ahead and work through the characters as digital files and probably do a better job without me.

I am a reasonable environments guy and had some mentoring on CA in industrial design. This is one reason I began talking about backgrounds. As long as you guys have the skills to pop an environment jpeg or other file type into the back layer of your concepts then I could probably contribute something.

[CCThrom]

Sorry guys, I evaporated for a few days there and didn't get a chance to warn you ahead of time. Honestly, this past week would have been impossible for me to do anything... so I don't mind a bit of a wait.

Ok, so we've got 10 days now, including 1 weekend to see this through. Let's think about a possible workflow. That's an intriguing idea... Blackcherry and I working the figures and Arttorney working environments. That will allow us all to contribute. What do you all think? Is this a plan you can get behind? If so, we can do the team-high-five.

The first step now, I think is to start posting "rough final" designs. As Blackcherry works through initial designs, I'll be happy to consult. The important part is to get roughs posted so that Arttorney can get an idea for his backdrops (assuming that's how we go with it). I can also provide initial roughs for some characters, but even so all the initial pencils should go through Blackcherry for consistency's sake.

Ready to roll?

[blackcherry]

Hey CC, was wondering where you'd got to! :) I'm all for that plan if we're all happy with it.

I've started some of the final designs already, still very rough at the moment. I'm going to post them here to get some feedback.

I've started the sage, hero and the rable rouser. I'm having some trouble with costume ideas for the hero. I'm thinking of something along the lines of how you had her dressed CC with trousers, jacket, boots, neck scarf and goggles on the head. I was going to do the sage simply dressed in some sort of robe and sandals with a staff and pipe and the rable rouser similar to how i dressed him in my initial design crossed with CC's sketch. What do you think?

Also what do you think of the poses? I drew two versions of the hero, the right one being her 'darker' side. I drew that one the hair up and the scarf covering her mouth. I also though maybe she should have a weapon? So i drew in a pistol. Wasn't sure what to with it so i just improvised. The rablerouser is touching his hat and I was going to give him playing cards in his hand with some scattering around him. The sage is just merely sitting smoking his pipe. I'm going to have him staring off into space whch should suit the description given.

The drawings still need work at the moment but i figure the earlier i get feedback the better.

I made a start on shadow too, currently he's in stick man form so i haven't bothered scanning him. I was thinking of posing him like my initial sketch.

CC if you have any ideas for costumes, poses, expressions etc. for the characters you could do some sketches and post them and I could work my designs to them. If you want? I should be able to knock them out faster them so we can move on.

[arttorney]

I was without internet all weekend and much of today. I'm here though. I'll try to make six environment roughs for comment within about two days so we can coordinate. Time is getting short. I've been slammed with work.

[CCThrom]

Howdy all, I'll try to crunch out some feedback tomorrow.

Question: If we go with "plan B" what kind of linework are we looking at? Or in other words, Blackcherry; how clean/final are your lines going to be? Are you planning on a digital inking? If not, would I be working color over scanned pencil line? Those lines will have to be pretty clean of course.

The good news is even though I'm not an experienced colorist, I am used to coloring over pencil if need be. I prefer to let the linework show in the final by the way.

Arttorney, if you are cool with doing essentially "cell" backgrounds, I'm good with that too... environments slow me down.

[arttorney]

Yeah, I'll do it. I am going to make ones with identifiable airship stuff out toward the sides so a character can be stuck in there without covering over the identifiable gadgets and stuff too much to see them.

[blackcherry]

In answer to your question CC I'm not going to have time to digitally ink the drawings, not with 6 characters in this time scale, so it's going to be pencil lines. Though I can assure you that my final lines will be a lot cleaner than what you've seen! When i've got the pose, expression and costumes pinned down from the feedback I'll clean up and finish each one.

I'd be happy to help you with the colouring if we're colouring digitally. Oh and I prefer to let the linework show in the final too.

I'll check back tomorrow for the feedback on the designs then I'll get the final pencils up as quick as I can.

[arttorney]

Here are a couple of environment roughs I cranked out this morning. Sorry about the boiler room. With steam, sooner or later somebody has to break down and shovel or chop wood.
652186652189
652191652193

[CCThrom]

Sorry guys, I've gotten swamped... and having network issues as well... I've got a bunch of stuff scanned but I won't be able to post until tonight. That means, with time difference Blackcherry won't see any help until Friday morning at best. Ugh, hope you're ok. Scanning and posting is still my Achilles' heel... mebby I should start roughing digital... dunno.

[arttorney]

I misused last night and so I am falling behind what I figured I had better do.

I know there are some pretty crappy lines in the boiler room one, but does it look like the wheelhouse one could be digitally touched up to be good enough to serve as a background here? If so, I think I could get six such basic backgrounds ready by about Tuesday, leaving a couple of days for ending manipulations. (I am not proposing to leave the digitally touching up to somebody else. I mean I would touch that one up and get another five halfway decent marker drawings together and touch them up before handing off.)

[blackcherry]

CC, No worries, despite not getting the feedback I just continued on with the Sage and the Rabble Rouser, making any corrections to the designs and I altered the Rabble Rouser's pose a bit too. So I they're pretty much done. I though it was best I just continued due to the time issue.

I'm going to get the other three (Protector, Technician & Shadow) roughed out tonight now then I'll check back here tomorrow for the feedback and your designs and also to post what i've done so far and see what happens from there.

Also, What's the plan with the colouring? We're doing it digitally right? Are we going to split the characters between us? I'm hoping to get started on it by the end of the weekend really cos I've got some other things going on next week which means I'm going lose some time, maybe 2 days.

Attorney, I think the background with the wheel will be fine with some touching up and I think the boiler room one could work too with some development.

I don't think the backgrounds need great amounts of detail so they don't take the attention away from the character designs. What other settings have you got planned? I think you should think of a design that'll suit each of the characters. Like the wheelroom would probably fit the heroine with her being the pilot. I should have all the designs up by tomorrow I hope, if that'll be of any help.

I was thinking of having Shadow leaning against something (you'll see what I mean when I get my design scanned and posted) so it'll probably help you to see that so you can draw something to suit. That's if you both like the pose...

[arttorney]

For the Shadow I was thinking about drawing some sort of a town scene and what just occurred to me is to do a kind of life drawing of the entrance to "The Palace" while I am in Arizona this weekend. In Prescott there is a place called Whiskey Row which is now for tourists but was once where the prospectors came into town to do their drinking and gambling and other naughty things. The Palace is a bar right in the middle of Whiskey Row that has an entrance with those old time cowboy movie swinging doors. I can try to draw that in a way that there is something for him to be leaning up against on one side or the other. Maybe if I go in there and order a burger and a beer they won't mind if I make a drawing that would be like him leaning up against one side of the entrance on the inside of the swinging doors as seen from the inside. The Rabble Rouser would be a great choice for this scene too, because of the cards.

Tech- I am going to give her a place around the edge of the deck with some block and tackle looking rigging it looks like she was working on. Just give her some kind of wrench to be holding or something and I'll make sure there are some bolt or nut looking things in the rigging contraption that she must have been working on.

I figured that having to shovel the coal might be one of the reasons the Rabble Rouser gets pissed off about social inequity. If the Rabble Rouser gets put in the town scene then I think the protector would look good in the boiler room, because all that shoveling is a pretty macho activity. That would then mean the Shadow had to get the rear deck scene discussed below.

Hero will look good in the room where steering happens.

Protector- I guess I will try to draw a fantail or poopdeck kind of scene where you can see a big air rudder off the back of the ship behind him. I'll be sure to make a beam for leaning in case the Shadow goes in this background.

Sage- perhaps I'll just draw his stateroom with a porthole to one side.

[CCThrom]

I would say that given the time, digital color is our only real option. I wouldn't be able to get started until Sunday at best. I doubt I could color all six characters in a week, especially given that Arttorney needs some time to blend. Unless I go really simple... coz on the other hand, I haven't really done anything but doodle so far :P

How will you transfer the files?

[arttorney]

Just chiming in. I figure the question was probably more directed at blackcherry.

When I finished the environments I figured I would either flatten them and send as the highest resolution jpeg I could to keep options open, or else perhaps a .psd

I wasn't planning to have a lot of layer complication because the backgrounds are the backgrounds and there is no point in making this any more tricky than it has to be.

I would say I can't be trusted to put the characters into the environments well myself.

[CCThrom]

I was talking about the actual file transfer... depending on how large she works, psd files can get pretty huge. With my clients, most of the time I'm sending grayscale tiffs, so file size is almost always under 10 meg.

[blackcherry]

CC, the files im going to send you to colour will be the full size finished pencil work in jpeg form. You can then open it in Photoshop and save it as a .psd file when you add layers to colour. Is that ok for you?

Attorney, in regards to what you said about the backgrounds I think what you suggested for the shadow and rabble rouser would be great. I think having the shadow leaning outside by the entrance would fit perfectly cos I'm planning on giving him a cowboy style hat like in my rough sketch :) The rabble rouser would probably work well in a bar environment too, or even a town.

I think somewhere where manual activity occurs would be great for the protector, the sage will probably work in an outdoor or inside scene. I think he'd be sitting in a somewhat quiet environment though. The steering room would fit for the hero and the technician could probably go anywhere as long as there was some tools scattered around.

I had a thought for the technician. I'm going to draw her with a toolbox and probably a wrench or something, but i was thinking of maybe including something like one of these by the side of her:

http://www.steampunklab.com/robots/3

What do you guys think? I though with her being all technical and interested in transport and moving things that she might be kind of interested in making like smaller robots of her ideas.

[arttorney]

Kind of like a little mechanical familiar. Loads of Disney style female characters have some kind of miniature side kick. It is uasually capable of smartass remarks, but that's kind of beyond the scope of CHOW where I don't see a lot of speech bubbles.

Here is the Palace. There is a picture of a dude standing in the cowboy doorway holding the doors open. You can probably see the pillars for leaning on either side. Check out the bar. http://www.historicpalace.com/

[blackcherry]

The palace looks awesome! I really like the bar and the entrance area I think they'll make great backgrounds. Hope you have a great weekend! :)

[CCThrom]

Heya,

Here are some more thoughts... getting myself over to a more stylized mindset...

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Some thoughts for Protector
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You've already worked on the Sage a lot... but here anyway
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More Shadow... pay no attention to how I've done the parachute straps... they should be on the OUTside of the coat if he's in pilot duds. A pilot would wear a short coat because of those straps. I was trying to smoosh together late 19th century style with early 20th century aviator stuff.
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And for possible reference, a kickass WW1 flyer pic...
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plus a couple shots of Amelia Earhart for Hero reference...
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And this guy has a great face for the Sage (though you might already be done with that)
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[arttorney]

Those are cool. We're gonna do this. We just have to keep driving. I'll do a bar based on the Palace for the Rabble Rouser so just think about the image in that link when you pose him. There'll be the backs of a few guys in plug hats at the bar or something, but not enough development to distract from the main character. I'll redo that boiler room because not only did I freehand some pretty wobbly lines but I don't like the tangent of that door in the back against the side of the boiler. It's confusing. I may make the firebox/boiler combination be a little more sophisticated.

Here is an entrance area out of my head but largely based on that of the Palace. I'll smooth it up and present it by Wednesday morning.
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Here is a rigging area for the Technician. This is watercolor pencil and I haven't gone over with the wet brush yet, but I want to give you guys an idea of these as soon as possible to help guide your posing decisions.
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[blackcherry]

CC, I really like your hero designs, she's great! It would be cool to use your design for her. Do you think our styles would work together for it?

Here's a some more rough sketches for the technician and shadow. I've developed the shadow sketch a bit since because it didn't look right to me, but just so you have an idea of the pose/look i was going for. Oh and i'm going to add a robot in for the technician too. I'm in the process of drawing the protector now so i'll post him soon too.

Any comments/feedback on changes, alterations or developments for any of the character designs i've drawn, let me know now cos i'm going to be working on finalising the drawings from this point onwards. With the exception of the sage as i've finished him. Funny enough CC he looks very much like the old guy in the photo you posted, except he has a longer moustache, hehe :)

My shadow seems to be quite different to yours CC, so what do you want to do? Mines got more of a western feel, which is why i quite liked the idea of Arttorney's saloon backdrop. But I could work him more to yours if you'd prefer.

[CCThrom]

I'm a pretty good mimic... how 'bout I start work on Hero and Protector for now?

As for Shadow, yeah, go for your guy... he'll fit well in that scene Arttorney just posted.

[CCThrom]

If I get into a bind next week, would either of you be able to pick up some of the color need be?

[arttorney]

I can try. Do you think it is Tuesday we are talking about?

Current schedule: Besides finishing out those environments I have to go to Arizona to do a traffic school class Saturday (I got a ticket a few weeks ago). Sunday was when I was aiming to make sure there is nothing further I can do in traditional on the backdrops. Monday I have one or more client meetings followed by drive back to CA. Monday night and Tuesday is for digital clean up on the backgrounds. Since the deadline is at the end of Thursday, I could push a day worth of digital environment cleanup down to Wednesday if need be, and then we get into crash deadline mode on Thursday. Thus Tuesday possible for some coloring (or Wednesday if I finish the environments by Wednesday morning) I am PMing around some email addresses to you folks.

[blackcherry]

CC, That would be great! Here's my sketch for the protector anyway but I'm happy to go with your guy. Post your designs when you're done, i'd like to see :)

I planned on doing half of the colouring anyway. I figured if we took 3 characters each that should make it easier for us. If you're really stuck I could try and do a bit more but I'm going to be quite busy next week too. If needs be though i could colour all 4 of my drawings. We'll see how things go!

In regards to the colouring, are we going for any particular sort of style? because we'll need our designs to look consistent. We can deal with that when we come to it though.

I got your message with the email addresses too Arttorney.

[CCThrom]

for the colors, I figure a cell shading approach will be easiest... check my "puss in boots" ChOW entry for what I'm thinking.

[blackcherry]

Hows everyone doing? I lost two days recently with some other things going on so I'm only now going to be starting the colouring.

CC, are you ok to colour one more design so we have three each? I'll post or email you my final design of shadow later if you think you can manage it.

Oh and looks like the deadlines been moved to May 2nd :D Awesome!! Now i think we should definately have enough time!

[arttorney]

I am still intending to finish my part, and probably send around stuff Thursday morning. I have a WIP of bar.
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Here's an update
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[arttorney]

More environment updates. I'll continue working. No sage place yet. Rough tomorrow morning with coffee. (and, of course these will only get better with time.)
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Notes for draft Description:
(based on Daestwen's) SUBMISSION GUIDLINES

The Final Burning Thread will go up ONE WEEK before deadline. The deadline will be April 30th, at 11:59 pm GMT - 5, Eastern Standard Time. I will accept submissions as long as it is April 30th somewhere in the world, but after this I will close the thread. I am going to give myself 1-2 days to then sort out the poll and the voting, so please be patient.

1. One team member will be in charge of submitting the final entry. How the entry is presented will be up to you, but keep it consistent and coherent. In other words, all our frames and labeling have to be the same on the six images. We should probably add a bit of text to the effect of, "This is a group of adventurers in an alternate steampunk universe. They have a large airship and at least two auxiliary air vehicles. The Hero and the Shadow are experienced pilots while the others fulfill other various roles about the ship. When the group "makes port" in a town you can usually find both the Shadow and the Rabble Rouser in the shadier establishments.
2. Remember that you will need to submit wips. If you decide to make a group sketchbook for this activity, a link to that will suffice. We have done this. Ours is an active group sketchbook. No worries. We just toss a link into the final burning post.
3. Also sumbit a list of Team Activity. I want to see how well you worked as a team - who was in charge of what and what each member did. Starting of WIPs thread and giving out workload info in this post-arttorney; Mood Board-CCThrom, Thumbnails-All; decisions-All; Shadow, Hero and Protector finals-CCThrom; Rabble Rouser, Sage, Technician, and perhaps a different pose of the Shadow finals-blackcherry; cel backgrounds-arttorney; assembling of final images/thumbnail-probably blackcherry; framing and labeling probably blackcherry
4. All other ChoW rules apply. If you are not familiar with the usual chow rules, please read the guidlines thread sticked at the top of the subforum. Including, 3/4ths rule, no paint-overs, etc.
5. Please submit files with this naming convention: TeamChow_TeamName_Image001.jpg TeamChow_Crumpets and PAIN_Image001.jpg etc.


I know the work description may change if CCThrom takes on a third character. If not, or if the group otherwise is in a jam, let me know, preferably by Thursday evening. I can take my tablet to Arizona and try to fill in some work Friday afternoon so we can get all this done by the end of Saturday. If there was a character in grayscale for me to do colors on for example, I can probably do it OK in a pinch.

Here is a draft of the Sage Place:
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[blackcherry]

I like how your backgrounds are developing arttorney :)

I just had a thought though, which would probably save you loads of time if you like the idea. I was wondering what you'd think of a sort of vintage, old look for the backgrounds? kind of like an old photograph effect. You could probably achieve it with some effects in Photoshop and some texture overlays etc....I'm not sure but it might work with the whole steampunk theme. Might be worth a quick experiment if you think it could look good? Doubt it would take long.

Just a thought anyway, let me know what you think. Could save you some colouring and touch-up time and still produce a good end result.

Back to colouring for me!

[arttorney]

Well, I was going to suggest something like that if it became clear we wouldn't be able to get all six colored in the right time frame, because I think black and white is allowed. I didn't want to be negative though. (get it? Old photos? ... negative? ... Oh I just crack myself up sometimes.)

I know how to do something with filters and stuff. It might come to that but I think there is still time remaining to get them as nice as possible.

Here is an update on that sage one and a version featuring a little fiddling about with filters and grayscale.
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[arttorney]

I've emailed the six environment files to both other team members. Let me know if I can help with other stuff, though the day job definitely needs attention now.
Daestwen says we have to put a group photo in there of our characters as well. Hopefully we will be able to fit all of them into one of the environments so there will be something for the Shadow to be leaning on besides the Protector.

blackcherry's emails bounced back to my hotmail account. I seem to have the email address correct. I have re-sent with the yahoo account in case this is because of an overzealous spam filter.

[blackcherry]

The fault was due to the amount of emails in my inbox. Seems I got quite a few emails with large files tonight, very strange! I've cleared it out now so it should be ok :)

The only thing I think I may need help with is getting all the images ready to be submitted and sorting all that out. Will post about that when I'm near the end of the colouring. Still got loads to go, and i've got a really busy day tomorrow O_O eep!

[arttorney]

OK I have CCThrom's finals and I think you do too. will take my computer stuff to AZ and check in Saturday to see if you need help. I am kind of a dork when it comes to digital and so I am not sure I can get characters installed into those environments I made (and if I did there is no guarantee they won't be misplaced, like hovering in the air or something). Same goes for assembling a group photo. I know I can resize for posting, make and label margins, make a thumbnail, and type whatever words we need to type. I can re-save final product with correct filenames. I know all that stuff is the easy part though. Just let me know if you need help.
Here's the thumbnail I just made for the team using using one of CCThrom's creations:
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[blackcherry]

Just updating this before I post our work in the Final Burning thread.

Here are CC's final designs for the Hero and the Protector, and also his final colour of my drawing of shadow. Thought I'd post them as he's not availiable to post them.

[blackcherry]

Here are my final designs for the Technician, the Rabble Rouser and the Sage. I would have liked to have done some more touching up on them but ran out of time.

[blackcherry]

Ok I've just finished everything off now. I realise there's lots of posts but i've had no time to update here until now.

Arttorney I liked your thumbnail but it has to be 300 x 200 so I've had to make a new one if thats ok. This is what I've got.

I also put together a character composite. It only has a plain grey background though :( no time to do anything, and we didn't really plan a background for the group shot. Having one with an airship would have been cool!

Going to post all the finals and the composite on here now too and also post it all in the Final Burning thread.

Hope you'll both be satisfied with how I've put everything together :)

[blackcherry]

And here are the finals with the backgrounds.

I adjusted the backgrounds to suit, altered some colours and things.

Some of characters could have done with some touching up around the edges but I didn't have time to do it I'm afraid.

Hope you guys are happy with the end result. It's been good fun working with you, we should stay in touch and stuff. Post here when you've seen these posts so i know what you think! :)

[CCThrom]

I'm really happy to have just contributed to a completed effort... happy that we didn't have to bail out. Sending a big THANK you to Blackcherry for pulling together the final composites!

[arttorney]

Thank you both. We finished thanks to a great effort at the end by blackcherry. The early comments seem to be that our characters mostly fit together and have an identifiable theme. Mission accomplished.

[CCThrom]

Blackcherry had asked that I post these... (not the full size pencils though, those are kinda huge)

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[blackcherry]

Glad you're both happy with the end result :)

Yeah I've seen the comments on our characters fitting together, yay I'm glad! I guess we managed to pull it off.

[arttorney]

We're obviously not going to win, but at least we are getting a few votes and "almost votes" here and there. In several years around here I only ever got one vote in the CHOW subforum, and usually do not even make the poll. I attribute the votes to those characters you two made and I am pretty proud of you.

[CCThrom]

Same here... though I attribute what success we've gotten to good teamwork and process in spite of life getting hectic, and a cohesive concept rather than individually awesome images. We held together as a group and I think the good foundation work we did made up for the crazy rushed ending.

Good jeorb y'all!

[blackcherry]

I think all did a great job as a team :) Go team!