OnLive may turn the game industry and the general computing world upside down!

[Costau D]

Link To Article (http://venturebeat.com/2009/03/23/steve-perlmans-onlive-could-turn-the-video-game-world-upside-down/)

"Perlman, a serial entrepreneur whose startup credits include WebTV and Mova, says his Palo Alto, Calif.-based company has developed a data compression technology and an accompanying online game service that allows game computation to be done in distant servers, rather than on game consoles or high-end computers. So rather than buying games at stores, gamers could play them across the network — without downloading them."

Also, the release of this information made the stocks of Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo drop.

These companies main business focus though is that they are "razor blade sellers" and the consoles they make lose them money. So if this new concept works and becomes succesful you will probably see a surge in game creation, and spend your money more on games than hardware. I can see this helping indie developersl.

Although, Autodesk seems to be supporting this as well. It makes me wonder what they have planned for using their software. They already have a subscription based platform set annually. I guess we will see. It is possible that in the future the programs you guys use will be based on a subscription policy and used over the net. Could help solve the piracy issues for any piece of software.

[Jasonwclark]

Sounds pretty Big Time :)

[squidmonk3j]

bye bye publishers, helloooo developers...hopefully!

[totti1345]

HAHA I just posted about this like 10 minutes ago.http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/new-tech-could-make-consoles-obsolete/1299562

[Mat Kaminski]

I really don't see this as a bad thing... I kinda think it will help out experimental developing myself and may even work as a way to make game companies stop being so one-sided. Like certain companies (nintendo, for example) would finally see the light and possibly stop entertaining just children (I know that's a biased opinion, but it was just an example).

[m@.]

Can't wait for it to be public, I'm definitely gonna buy stock in that. This is gonna be a revolution.

[Goog]

I think the title of this thread should be: "OnLive may turn the game industry and the general computing world right-side up!"

[Mat Kaminski]

Agreed, Goog! :D

[J Wilson]

I don't know, I see potential side effects. As one example, if gaming processing is done remotely, meaning that gamers no longer need great machines to run great games, then fewer high end computers get sold (probably fewer computers total get sold). Demand goes down, and then prices go up because instead of selling a lot of computers on a small profit margin they then have to adjust to selling fewer machines and less often. I could see a whole host of ripple effects, because it seems like games in part drive new computer sales, and having fewer computer sales could slow down other developements for those of us who actually use home computers for more than games and internet.

[chriskot]

I was following this when it was still under development. I didn't know they were actually turning it into a reality so soon. I think they were originally talking about using it to play Crysis-quality games on handheld devices like cellphones.

I've never been a fan of Pay-to-Play game services, but the idea behind the technology is really cool. I don't think that it will doom consoles or anything though. For one thing, there are a lot of people I know that can't stand having to pay a subscription to something like this. Also, I can see the lag getting somewhat annoying if many people are trying to play many things at once, and it's sometimes nice to have something that you can take places because it doesn't have to always be patched into the the internet to play.

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing the games that come out for this thing. The amounts of advanced physics and graphics that you could pull off with a machine like theirs is bound to make for some impressive titles.

[Cthogua]

Yeah the biggest problems I see with this is bandwidth issues, and good ole fashion fear of change. I think a totally subscription based service would be a hard sell for Americans who're used to buying and owning physical copies games.

J Wilson: Is the hardcore gamer buying expensive PC rigs really that much of a market force? Seems like businesses would be the major purchaser of new computers. Plus now Netbooks are all the rage, which certainly isn't aimed at the dude trying to play Crysis and brag about how overclocked his WandDang 328 is.

...and the idea of a Crysis quality game on a handheld device is hilarious to me. Seriously, on like a 2x4 inch screen. WTF would be the point of super high quality visuals when the output is smaller than a fucking postcard?

[Not Pink]

it's the same thing as playing your ps3 game on your psp with the feature that it has (can't remember the name of it...).

but really this isn't going to do anything to the gaming market.
1. there's no way in high hell any of the big 3 game companies would license their game for this service
2. besides #one, the only part of the gaming market that would be hurt is the hardware side. and when hardware companies start going down, the price of the parts they make go up, meaning all of our computers aren't gonna lower in price anytime soon after this thing comes out (I'm so excited! /sarcasm)

to make game companies stop being so one-sided. Like certain companies (nintendo, for example) would finally see the light and possibly stop entertaining just children
what? why would this service make any company change their ways? and really I hate this "ungh nintendo's for kids (insert grumpy face here)" attitude. because Soldiers in Metroid screaming "DAMMIT" is for kids? stop looking at the crap the 3rd party developers push out every second and look at the true gems for the consoles. but thats for another thread.

I'm not hateing on this service, it seems pretty cool since I wont have to upgrade my custom-built PC every year, but in the long run it's just hurting the industry.

[m@.]

I think a totally subscription based service would be a hard sell for Americans who're used to buying and owning physical copies games.

Maybe the people who are in their late twenties and up, who grew up in a society of accumulation of material objects. What about the teens/ preteens of today who are gonna be the primary consumers in a few years, who grew up in a world where everything is downloadable? I'm pretty sure a lot of those kids don't really care about physical copies.



...and the idea of a Crysis quality game on a handheld device is hilarious to me. Seriously, on like a 2x4 inch screen. WTF would be the point of super high quality visuals when the output is smaller than a fucking postcard?

I wouldnt be surprised if nanoprojectors or similar technology (getting a large output from a small device) was incorporated in phones soon enough.


I'm not hateing on this service, it seems pretty cool since I wont have to upgrade my custom-built PC every year, but in the long run it's just hurting the industry.

what about transforming the industry? it's like saying internet was a bad idea because in the long run it's hurting the mailman's business.

[Not Pink]

change isn't bad, but when it directly attacks something, than yeah, it sucks.
say AMD is licensed by onlive to create all the server systems' graphic processors. Intel gets left in the dust because of the deal, raising the cost of PCs, Macs, 360s, and PS3s to new heights. let's say all of your favorite games are 1st party titles or games that haven't been licensed to the onlive service, those consoles and intel based computers are absolutely screwed in price because intel is trying to make up for the lost revenue, firing hundreds in the process. Yeah it's a doomsday scenario, but it will happen to at least some degree, if not all the way.

I don't think the mail man minds carrying less, while the prices of stamps and packages increase.

[ArtZealot]

I'm worried about lag being an issue. A few people mentioned it in the comments section on the linked page, data has to be sent twice as many times with this system and will most likely result in twice the amount of lag than if you just ran the game from your home PC. I'd have to actually play it to be sold, but i wouldn't be surprised if even single player games had bad lag with this system. Even if it's just a slight delay, it can be irritating.

[Mat Kaminski]

Hehe, we won't go on a Nintendo tirade here, because, honestly, I adore the company... since it's roots. I own everything nintendo I can find...

Anyway... the point being, in my opinion of course, is that this will probably have no less an effect on the gaming industry than say, GameFly. Realistically, do I expect first-party software to leave? No, of course not, but the real first-party software will have to be top-notch.

The thing that I assume out of this is that if (and this is quite possibly the clincher) the hardware is easy enough to work with, programming-wise, this might be the best idea in my opinion for third-party ports and personal projects... I dunno, just my 2 cents.

[J Wilson]

what about transforming the industry? it's like saying internet was a bad idea because in the long run it's hurting the mailman's business.

Actually, that exactly IS a problem. Postal rates keep going up trying to make up for rising costs of fuel, but fewer people using postal services. Recently I belive the postal service asked congress for permission to only deliver 5 days a week in some areas. I wouldn't go so far as to say the internet was "bad' because of this scenario, it it obviously did have a ripple effect that wasn't all great.

Cthogua: I don't know if hard core gamers are a large market force, but I belive gamers in general are. I know many people who don't do much more than surf the internet and play games on their home pcs. They only upgrade things when somethign dies and has to be replaced, or when there is finally enough games they want to play that they need to upgrade. Without games as an incentive, I imagine they would buy games half as often or less. With portable email and web surfing alternatives this is even more true, as a home computer isn't as needed for those things anymore. I think noebooks being the rage comes down to A) they are finally fairly cheap now, B) portable is the future. You are probably right about businesses being a very large market in computer sales, but again I don't think they upgrade all that often unless you are in the graphics industry or likewise put large demands on your hardware. Companies that just need to run reports, Word, Excel, and use email don't care what kind of crap machines they use. I worked someplace that replaced computers MAYBE every 8 years or so.

Also, as food for thought, if there is no more physical game, what happens when they stop carrying a game you loved?

[Not Pink]

what happens when they stop carrying a game you loved?

the reason why I absolutely will NOT by music from certain online retailers.
We all saw the mess made when Wal-Mart and Yahoo's music stores went down; you had to pay an additional fee to remove the DRM to be able to play the music you already purchased once before after their servers shut down.

I can see mass hysteria with games seeing as it's not 99cent songs, it's forty dollar games. you buy three games and your already up to $120, what happens if their servers shut down for whatever reason? your out $120 bucks, that's what.

[m@.]

Actually, that exactly IS a problem. Postal rates keep going up trying to make up for rising costs of fuel, but fewer people using postal services. Recently I belive the postal service asked congress for permission to only deliver 5 days a week in some areas. I wouldn't go so far as to say the internet was "bad' because of this scenario, it it obviously did have a ripple effect that wasn't all great.

I'm sure it is, but that's how it goes and has always been going. Some jobs become obsolete, but social changes and new technologies create new types of jobs.

[sketchfreak]

This is called "WEB 3.0" ... Berners-Lee's Semantic Web ... Global Database!

- Web 1.0: web as extension of PC hard drive
- Web 2.0: web as application platform complementing PC operating system and hard drive
- Web 3.0: web as universal computing grid replacing PC operating system and hard drive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_1.0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2.0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_3.0

* I don't know why Wikipedia remove WEB3.0 article, try this:

http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2007/08/what_is_web_30.php

[totti1345]

As long as I will be able to use my mouse and keyboard via the PC plugin they mentioned I will not have a problem with it. I wonder how many bugs this thing will have at first. Maybe they should have a beta or something with a new online game (CS Source, Halo 3).

[totti1345]

woops, wasnt referring to those games as being new. just examples

[totti1345]

Also, what if the big boys keep moving forward with what you can do with the consoles as we saw in the last wave of them 2 out of 3 had a controlling scheme (wii way more than the PS3 controller) I mean this new Onlive doesn't well I don't think has the guns and such to put something out on the market or even explore new avenues like the Wii has done. Who know what is next for gaming. The day that I walk into a mist cube and my level is projected through the mist and I can move any way want to interact I will shit my pants. But then again if Onlive were a success they could start exploring too.

[SoufMeng]

[...]you buy three games and your already up to $120, what happens if their servers shut down for whatever reason? your out $120 bucks, that's what.

On the other hand some could argue that thanks to such services, games would be cheaper...

But i agree, paying fees or losing paid for products to server shutdowns or somethin is obnoxious anyway.

(Totti, theres an edit function ;)

[totti1345]

Oh thanks dude

[Interceptor]

This OnLive thing has been all I've seen from news today. Sweet stuff.

[Dile_]

kinda neat... have anyone seen http://quakelive.com.. very neat system as well.. you can play quake 3 or 'quakelive' from your browser on a 56k modem if you want.. all you need is a 2mb client + 24 mb content downloaded through the client. now Q3 isn't exactly a next-generation graphics kind of game.. so what worries my with OnLIVE would be ping issues.. will they place a server in my garage ? :E

[totti1345]

Onlive reminds me of the Sega channel. Anybody remember that?

[OmenSpirits]

A friend of mine had Sega channel then. Was an interesting idea.

Hey, looking at from a different POV. What about all the case art? With not physical case to put instructions in, does that mean less work for illustrators?

:(

[s.ketch]

Let's turn video games into cable television. Awesome.

[H-M-B]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/3/25/

[sketchfreak]

I recall William Gibson's "NEUROMANCER"! :oneye:

...Boot-up your Brain and Share your Mind in Cyberspace!

[Mr.Razorblades]

I see 2 problems:

1. Lag, lag, lag. I know this has been mentioned a few times, but seriously, HUGE issue. Just imagine one gamer out there going to remote servers to play their games. He has to log in, the server then runs requests and processes. For one person not so bad, now imagine 2 million gamers doing this. That bandwidth will get sucked dry quickly, and those servers running these processes are going to get beat the hell up.

2. Games. With the lack of overall competition between consoles then games will diminish in quality. I know a lot of people are saying "Well what about indie publishers, they'll surely forge through." Yes they will, but there are some people out there that like their brands, they represent a sort of quality of life for them. They feel warm and fuzzy with them, and when they go away, then so do those gamers. No one wants to feel cheated.

In conclusion. I don't think it is a very good idea, but this is just my opinion.

[egerie]

Not Pink :
1. there's no way in high hell any of the big 3 game companies would license their game for this service

You meant exclusivity. It doesn't look like what it's about.

The main issue I see is the people not being close enough to the backbone. Sure the US could theoricaly have something like this but I doubt europe or other continents could. Then again, who knows with the speed at which the net evolved in the last 10 years ("Internet trough cable TV? Bwahahahasright" -Circa '96).

Now that said, I hope the other consoles or PCs will still be around in order to keep the developers in check. Pushing the boundaries of a given hardware and end optimisation is what makes it cohesive. I dread to think about crates objects with 4096x4096 textures on them (just an example).

[Dusty]

The idea definitely sounds interesting to me. I'm curious how it will be executed...

But as far as I am concerned "The guy that brought us WebTV!" isn't exactly the best selling point.

-D

[ArtZealot]

Onlive reminds me of the Sega channel. Anybody remember that?

haha, yeah. I was going to mention it, but assumed no one remembered it because it was so awful. There is always the possibility that this new system will share the same fate as the sega channel.

[DeadlyFreeze]

There's no way this would work unless they are charging outrageous fees to keep themselves within operating costs and even then I don't think it's technically feasible to get that much dedicated bandwidth.

Sounds like the old phantom console pump and dump to me.

[Dorkthrone]

kinda neat... have anyone seen http://quakelive.com.. very neat system as well.. you can play quake 3 or 'quakelive' from your browser on a 56k modem if you want.. all you need is a 2mb client + 24 mb content downloaded through the client. now Q3 isn't exactly a next-generation graphics kind of game.. so what worries my with OnLIVE would be ping issues.. will they place a server in my garage ? :E

Quake Live is the shiat.

[Dirty C]

I see 2 problems:

1. Lag, lag, lag. I know this has been mentioned a few times, but seriously, HUGE issue. Just imagine one gamer out there going to remote servers to play their games. He has to log in, the server then runs requests and processes. For one person not so bad, now imagine 2 million gamers doing this. That bandwidth will get sucked dry quickly, and those servers running these processes are going to get beat the hell up.


How is this different from any other online gaming paradigm? There's always some low ping bastard, no?

[Brun]

Can't wait for it to be public, I'm definitely gonna buy stock in that. This is gonna be a revolution.

Seems like a good idea, might do that too.


back on topic:

I think this is one of the first steps into a right direction for the gaming industry, i've been thinking about this ever since i first heard about it, and it might indeed change the "game industry" as we know it but transform it into something what seems to be a lot better.

[kidult]

I can see this really working on the console side of things. You buy a game box or console and in the time it would take a normal console to reach its menu browser or for a game to load you could connect to the server. So you just switch on your console and choose a game from a list and off you go. Sounds better consumer wise, right know I have to rent a game before I buy it to make sure its worth while, with this I can play it once / twice to try before I buy. Hell might make for better games / gameplay and less licenced crap.....but propably not.
PC end is mostly hardcore gamers while this could work great with the "wii-family gamepaly" crowd

[Mr.Razorblades]

How is this different from any other online gaming paradigm? There's always some low ping bastard, no?

Usually when you play Online games you have the original gameing software installed on your machine. The way I believe that Onlive works is that you connect to a server that has this game installed and running. Now just imagine say a couple hundred thousand people playing that same game. If they want to make it seemless it would require a lot of processing power.

[phiq]

Okay, so someone tell me, is there going to be some place somewhere, the OnLive warehouse or something, and it just going to be absolutely jam packed with machines? Surely the demand will outstrip the supply? Imagine the power bill too... crikey. The environment people. The environment...! :P

[SCIBOTIC]

If they want to make it seemless it would require a lot of processing power.

Welcome to cloud computing, if they have enough customers to warrant it they can just pop in a truck full of new nodes.

Also for the record there's no one who'll play games 24/7, assuming each player played a couple of hours each day a single server could cater to twelve of them at separate times which is far more cost effective than a user buying a powerful rig just for their own personal use, add enough servers and this becomes mostly a matter of statistics as you prepare enough servers to handle it at peak times.

Not to mention that you can put multiple graphics cards into a computer and most games don't eat the bulk of your CPU, which means if their system is set up you handle it you could easily run a few users on a single node at the same time.

In the long term, it should be very profitable for them and cheaper for us users.

[Gerulaitis]

Sounds fun, sounds great, sounds like the 2nd coolest thing since sliced bread.

Yet i'm skeptical. It also sounds impossible with current net technology. The math is just unrealistic. Cloud computing doesn't seem fit for games. Tell about those 80ms packet round-trips (traffic only, no compression/decompression involved, no glitches involved) to a person addicted to FPS games who plays on an oldie crt display just because it doesn't have a 10-20ms processing delay inherent to lcd displays... then look into his blood-shot eyes and see them twitch.

Sure - yay! - but i'll remain sceptical until i see a convincing explanation of how it tackles the existing technological obstacles. So far that article is a set of buzz-words and advertisement tactics.

Publishers can also pull the plug on games that aren’t selling well without taking a big inventory hit. And they can add new episodes of popular games quickly, much like the TV networks cancel unpopular shows and add episodes for successful pilots.

This part made me cringe. So much for the idea of a wonderful future lush in variety of things accessible due to workings of long-tail...

They could prolly patch cheaper games to include ads, right?
You're chasing that annoying individual that's been shooting you (the term "ganking" would be appropriate) the whole day, you're just soooo close to getting your revenge, that rocket you've just launched is on a perfect collision coarse with his face, just... one... more.. frame... INTERMISSON! FR33 P*NIS ENLARGIMENT, CHE4P C1ALIS AN VIA@RA FOR U!!!!11 \o/ (10 minutes later you find out you've... missed :()
Was that an exageration?

[phiq]

Some mighty interesting points here! >> http://www.gameplayer.com.au/gp_documents/OnLive-Fails.aspx