I need help/advice finding a publisher to publish my very first children's book!!!

[The Acidraptor]

What's good fam!! My partner (who's a primatologist) & I are shopping for the right publisher in order to publish our very first children's book on nocturnal primates which will include lorises, bushbabies, tarsiers, nocturnal lemurs like the aye-aye plus lots more... But this wont happen if a good publisher can give us a lift...
Ive been to told several people who already published books that they usually pick their own illustrator for my partner whom I'm working with & I'm illustating the book.
Plus I need to be an established artist & have a rep in order to have a book published & I'm doing my hardest to establish myself in the game...

So anyone here who has already published books including children's books can provide me some advice on how to make this happen & establish ourselves in the game???

I seriously appreciate your help!!

[MiniGoth]

???? Most publishers want to use one of their own 'stable' artists to illustrate a book; though if your artist is well known or particularly appropriate to the subject matter, this is negotiable.

Since your book is non fiction, look into both childrens' and non fiction agencies.

The best places to get the lowdown on agents are

www.agentquery.com

Predators and Editors

You DON'T need an illustrator lined up to pitch the book.

[The Acidraptor]

Like I said, I'm illustrating the book...
Thanks for your help tho!!

[dashinvaine]

Probably every rejection slip you ever receive will advise you to look at the lists in the Writers' and Artists' Yearbook. Hopefully you won't get too many of those, of course.

[The Acidraptor]

Thanks for the heads up...

[Puck]

Ive been to told several people who already published books that they usually pick their own illustrator...

I think you've talked to the wrong people... as far as I was aware, publishers do not want writers, especially first time writers, to 'pick' an illustrator. Doing so gives your book less chance of being published. I would just send the text through and let the publishers do their job.

If you have to illustrate it (which I completely understand) - I wouldn't just approach a publisher with samples of your illustrations and say "I'm illustrating it", I think the best you could do is make a dummy of the book with a few pages fully illustrated and the rest as sketches, properly bound and layed out like a finished book. (don't illustrate the whole thing, they may hate your illos but love the text, in which case you've wasted heaps of time)

Good luck with it!

[The Acidraptor]

Thanks for the advice!!

[The Acidraptor]

Meanwhile, check out my illustrations that I'm working on for the book...
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/smallski61916/largenocturnallemurs.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/smallski61916/aye-aye.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/smallski61916/Picture143.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/smallski61916/Picture144.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/smallski61916/Picture145.jpg

[Puck]

They look a bit scary for a childrens book. I don't think illustrations like that will help the book get published in my opinion, sorry.

[mickeymao]

I have to agree with Puck. In general manuscripts have a somewhat better chance on their own, and your drawings look like a tough sell right now for the children's market. You will rarely see children's books illustrated in b&w, because brighter color is usually more appealing to kids. I understand that it's about nocturnal animals, but it can't just be all black. It's scratchboard, right? Right now it looks like an inverted daytime line drawing rather than a night scene. I'm not sure if you should do moonlight or what, but you definitely need to get some color in there, and you should look at some more lighting reference. Their eyes only light up like that when you shine a light source at them, right?

Also, I think you need to bring your rendering of tree branches/bark up to the same level of realism as your animals -- or bring down the level of realism on the animals. Right now this would be appropriate for older kids -- if you were shooting for younger kids, the drawings should be simpler. Either way, it should match the sophistication of the text, and you should know what age level you're aiming for.

Whether or not you need a rep is an age-old question with no correct answer. If you can get a good one, it will certainly help your career, but getting any rep, much less a good one, is not so easy -- and of course you pay them for their help.

[ladydove7]

Acidraptor, I'm always happy to see someone with a drive to finish a labor of love such as a book (especially an illustrated one). I am not a published author (yet!), but I have been researching the topic and there is a place for illustrated books. These are generally called 'picture books' and the author-illustrator receives a higher royalty for such books.

Before you publish, as people have been warning in this thread, you have to be very confident in your illustrations and also for a book like this, be in touch with your audience. Your images in black and white are a bit jarring and not as bright as children would like. But I can see this easily turned around with a Photoshop inversion which you can then digitally color or transfer and paint with watercolor or color pencils (or a combination of both) for a brighter more vibrantly colored presentation.

They're beautiful images, though, and you do have a sense of your animal subject matter. Your details are just gorgeous! Just work a bit on presentation and I think you'll be okay. Do take note, however, that your drawings are reading more as 'educational' than 'fun' and seem more like biographical charts. If a biographical study presented for children (like Zoobooks) is what you're going for, than this is okay. Take a look through Zoobooks and the National Geographics for kids and it should give you a good idea of how they present a serious topic in a serious style, but dress it up for children with bright colors and decorative backgrounds.

I highly recommend the most current Children's Writer's & Illustrator's Market (http://www.amazon.com/2009-Childrens-Writers-Illustrators-Market/dp/1582975493). It will speak of how to write a letter of inquiry, which writing groups to join, marketing yourself, finding a publisher, and includes a list of agents and their specialties by what type of books they're looking for. I think it would do you worlds of good!

Last, but not least. Have you considered starting a blog for your illustrations with snippets of your writing? It can be a great way to work up hype for your book, to motivate yourself, and to make some important networking connections.

Good luck with your book!

[CCThrom]

Ive been to told several people who already published books that they usually pick their own illustrator for my partner whom I'm working with & I'm illustating the book.

I don't really understand this sentence... but if it means what I think it means then these authors are either A) unusually successful B) self-publishers or C) bullshitting you.

The vast majority of children's books start life as a manuscript alone. If a publisher likes the manuscript then they will hire their own illustrator. If one person is both author and illustrator, then selling an illustrated manuscript is much easier. Unless they want to self-publish their own work, unpublished authors generally do not hire illustrators.

Now, since you guys are partners, you "could" create this work together and try to find a publisher... probably not the best way to go, but it has happened. Non-fiction I think is easier for this than fiction. But the odds are still more slim than the already-slim odds of going the "usual" route.

Color is better for children's books, but it depends a lot on the age range you're aiming for. That's a very important first question. If you haven't yet, look up some books on writing/illustrating for children.

You can get more targeted advice if you are a member of the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators (www.scbwi.org) or from the Children's Writers and Illustrators Market (www.cwim.com).

Try these books:
http://www.amazon.com/Write-Illustrate-Children%C2%92s-Books-Published/dp/1582970130/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237819209&sr=8-6
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Publishing-Childrens/dp/1592577504/ref=pd_sim_b_19

[The Acidraptor]

Yeah sorry that Im misleading you guys but these illustrations are just rough drafts & wont make the final cut but I will be using scratchboard for the nocturnal illustrations & color for the daytime scenes...
Yeah I know, this isnt easy being marketable......

[ladydove7]

On the contrary, what little kid DOESN'T like dinosaurs and animals? I looved learning about them when I was small and lemurs have the added kid value of being cute with their plushy tails and large expressive eyes. Look at Madagascar.

You'll find your angle, just keep working at it and keep researching:drinkup:

[tatiana]

What's good fam!! My partner (who's a primatologist) & I are shopping for the right publisher in order to publish our very first children's book on nocturnal primates which will include lorises, bushbabies, tarsiers, nocturnal lemurs like the aye-aye plus lots more...

Is this book being created as a non-fiction childrens book? Because then I could see the realistic art being an asset. BTW, the Caldecott 2009 award for the best picture book went to a book with alot of BW scratchboard illustrations... :)

The 2009 Caldecott Medal winner is The House in the Night, illustrated by Beth Krommes, written by Susan Marie Swanson (Houghton Mifflin Company)

Richly detailed black-and-white scratchboard illustrations expand this timeless bedtime verse, offering reassurance to young children that there is always light in the darkness. Krommes' elegant line, illuminated with touches of golden watercolor, evoke the warmth and comfort of home and family, as well as the joys of exploring the wider world.

Otherwise, yes, it has been my experience, particularly since this is your first book, that a publisher will most likely want to select the illustrator; so your partnership may be a hindrance in getting the book published, unless the two of you are planning on self-publishing. As CCThrom and ladydove7 mentioned, pick up a copy of the 2009 Childrens Book Writers and Illustrators Market and that will give you an idea of what publishers require in order for them to view your book proposal. Particularly since some places won't accept un-agented manuscripts, or prefer that you submit a query letter with your proposal rather than the full manuscript.

Edit: That's not to say that a smaller, regional publisher might be quite happy that you all have an established contract together prior to you both approaching them. So, it might be worth investigating what small specialty publishers have to say.

Good luck!

t

[Elwell]

If you haven't already, check out the Society of Children's Book Authors and Illustrators (http://www.scbwi.org/).

[The Acidraptor]

If you haven't already, check out the Society of Children's Book Authors and Illustrators (http://www.scbwi.org/).


Yes, I will look into all that... Thanks for all your input & help peoples!!
I appreciated all of that!!!

[The Acidraptor]

Btw, here's a color illustration that I'm talking about here but its a portion of the panel...
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/smallski61916/crownedlemurs2.jpg

[The Acidraptor]

Otherwise, yes, it has been my experience, particularly since this is your first book, that a publisher will most likely want to select the illustrator; so your partnership may be a hindrance in getting the book published, unless the two of you are planning on self-publishing. As CCThrom and ladydove7 mentioned, pick up a copy of the 2009 Childrens Book Writers and Illustrators Market and that will give you an idea of what publishers require in order for them to view your book proposal. Particularly since some places won't accept un-agented manuscripts, or prefer that you submit a query letter with your proposal rather than the full manuscript.

Edit: That's not to say that a smaller, regional publisher might be quite happy that you all have an established contract together prior to you both approaching them. So, it might be worth investigating what small specialty publishers have to say.

Good luck!

t

Thats exactly what Ive been told so far... Since Im partnered with her who is a certified primatologist, this partnership may be a hinderance but then again we wont give up, we're gonna try our hardest to get our masters to the editors & we're gonna put out a CLASSIC juvenile non-fiction book all filled with substantial info that the game is totally missing so we'll se what happens......

[CCThrom]

this partnership may be a hinderance but then again we wont give up

In this case, you really need information that can be provided by CWIM and SCBWI. Do as much research into publishers as possible. Be well-informed and intelligently target the publishers you approach.

[The Acidraptor]

Just so ya know, the book we're working on is about nocturnal primates; we're gonna name the title "Real Gremlins of the Night: The Complete Illustrated Guide to nocturnal primates". It's gonna feature the following:

Owl Monkeys (dourocoulis) from South America
a fossil prosimian
Pottos
Angwantibos
Bushbabies
Nocturnal Lemurs including the bizarre aye-aye
Lorises
Tarsiers

...all completely illustrated by me, Miguel Salvador & narrated by Helena Fitch-Snyder so we gotta step our game up & research for the right publisher...
We're gonna put out a great book peoples so stay tuned......

[The Acidraptor]

Here's another panel from the Madagascar chapter on mouse lemurs & dwarf lemurs...
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c271/smallski61916/smallnocturnallemursrevised.jpg
I personally find this one my favorite since its very elaborate...

[RocketMonkey]

www.absolutewrite.com/forums is a great resource if you haven't already found it ;)

Good luck!

[ladydove7]

Sounds like you've got plenty of research to do! Good luck:)

I wanted to add a small critique of your scratchboard illustrations since you posted them. They look wonderful and the texture is really eyecatching. I agree with the folks who said earlier that the bark could use more development, though I don't think this is because you haven't studied bark, but rather because you don't want to detract from the massive detail in the animals. Have you considered trying a strong highlight on one side of the tree that then bleeds into the inner part of the tree to imply the texture of the bark and to fill up that negative space better so that the bark seems more on par with the skill level of the animals?

Here's a good example of how someone else did the same effect: http://lh5.ggpht.com/_PTiAU6zs2SY/Rzye9TaLoRI/AAAAAAAAAEg/en9FqsHXwgY/scratch+bird+colorized.jpg

You may also want to try a more volume heavy scratchboard style like this this one. It seems like it might be easier to adding colors and convincing shadows than the more 'sculptural' approach you're taking currently: http://www.heatherzartgallery.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Lemur72dpi.jpg

Hope that helps some. Best of luck to you and your partner! Oh and I wouldn't think that a certified individual is a hindrance to ANY publishing relationship. All companies like certified investments.

[The Acidraptor]

Sounds like you've got plenty of research to do! Good luck:)

I wanted to add a small critique of your scratchboard illustrations since you posted them. They look wonderful and the texture is really eyecatching. I agree with the folks who said earlier that the bark could use more development, though I don't think this is because you haven't studied bark, but rather because you don't want to detract from the massive detail in the animals. Have you considered trying a strong highlight on one side of the tree that then bleeds into the inner part of the tree to imply the texture of the bark and to fill up that negative space better so that the bark seems more on par with the skill level of the animals?



Like I said, these are just roughs that wont make the final cut; the final masters will be much more exquisite...

[The Acidraptor]

[QUOTE=ladydove7;2188288]You may also want to try a more volume heavy scratchboard style like this this one. It seems like it might be easier to adding colors and convincing shadows than the more 'sculptural' approach you're taking currently: http://www.heatherzartgallery.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Lemur72dpi.jpg

QUOTE]

Thanks for the suggestion, however you gotta know I have a rather distinct style & I'm sticking with it, that's why I don't use color on scratchboards whatsoever, for my scratchart I do strictly nocturnal settings!!!
Thanks again for your honest critique & nice lemur etching btw...

[The Acidraptor]

www.absolutewrite.com/forums is a great resource if you haven't already found it ;)

Good luck!

Thanks boss!! I'll definitely look into it...

[The Acidraptor]

Everyone else agreed that I have to have a rep & be established in order to publish a book plus having this type of partnership is a big hinderance...
Usually they use one author to both author & illustrate a book in order to get the approval & when it comes to partnership, the publishers usually select an establishing illustrator & I'm tryin my hardest to establish myself in the game so where do I begin now?????? Do I have to submit a resume & portfolio to the editors or what?????? I am getting my art out there but submitting them to art galleries & comic/sci-fi/fantasy conventions all over but I gotta reelize that there's more to it than that??????......

[ladydove7]

Most companies out there will have specific submission guidelines for illustrators wishing to submit their portfolios. Some are done electronically while others still use slide submissions.

Before you get caught up in submitting, I think you should start at home. Make sure you're set up to manage freelancing first. Have a website, online portfolio, and (optionally) a blog. Some companies literally have a checklist for what makes an artist marketable and seeing website/blog/forum/podcast/etc hits all the right sweet spots. If you like to talk about your projects and inspirations, a blog can be a great way to get to know others, establish a presence, and to have fun.

It's all about establishing presence first before putting yourself out there, at least in my experience. I went about submitting portfolios BEFORE really making sure my website and business practices were up to par and didn't get many bites, but after I set myself up with an updated website/blog/forum/etc I began to receive much more of a positive response. It could have been a coincidence, but I doubt it was.

Might I suggest trying other sources besides galleries and conventions, such as wildlife magazines or ezines? Just look at the credits and see if they have a website where you can look at submission guidelines or find the name of the art director and contact them.

Also, brushing up on how doing contract work is going to effect your taxes is a good thing to do too. But I will stop rambling just in case you know all of this already. I am not quite sure where you are in your development.:)

Good luck in any case! The freelance world can be a tough place and it's definitely a long term investment sort of gratification.

[CCThrom]

First, you need to decide what market(s) you want to go for. Take a long, hard, honest look at your portfolio. Know what interests you and what you enjoy. Work on those direction(s). Look at your work as objectively as possible and work to improve what doesn't feel ready for the big league. Maybe post a sketchbook here if you haven't already.

Do some research. Look at the kind of published work that interests you. Go to bookstores, look at magazines, wherever your interests lie. Write down the publishers that produce what you like. Look them up online and find their submissions guidelines. Follow their posted advice... you get no points for originality where following directions is concerned.

Do yourself a favor and get a copy of The Artist's Market (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_0_15?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=artist%27s+market+2009&sprefix=artist%27s+market). It has lots of publisher contact information and tips on how to approach publishers, editors, art directors, etc.

When you've done your homework, start sending query letters, postcards, sample packages, electronic submissions, or making phone calls. Go to conventions only if it makes sense for the market you're pursuing. Listen to the feedback you get. Refine your portfolio.

Repeat as necessary.

Edit: Ladydove beat my post... good advice there too. Having a website to back up your submissions is a good thing. If you need to go cheap, a blog or a third-party portfolio space works well too. I was thinking "magazines" too based on what you've posted here. And again, Artist's Market is a good resource for magazine editors.

[J Wilson]

Thanks for the suggestion, however you gotta know I have a rather distinct style & I'm sticking with it...

One suggestion, really watch statements like this. Defending your work against critique with the statement "it's my style" is one big danger zone. It's essentially says "I don't want to discuss changing my art," and that will stop any conversation dead.

[ladydove7]

Additionally, while you're in the rough draft phase is the BEST time to receive critique so you know what to expect and what may be improved before publication. Though I can understand this type of response if you are still going to make improvements to a piece and don't want critique until that point:)

[The Acidraptor]

One suggestion, really watch statements like this. Defending your work against critique with the statement "it's my style" is one big danger zone. It's essentially says "I don't want to discuss changing my art," and that will stop any conversation dead.


Your absoluely righ !! I can respec your opinion... However, I wasn defending my work ya dig?? I didn ake anyhing personal...

[The Acidraptor]

Additionally, while you're in the rough draft phase is the BEST time to receive critique so you know what to expect and what may be improved before publication. Though I can understand this type of response if you are still going to make improvements to a piece and don't want critique until that point:)

exacly wha I need righ now... Your feedback!! Appreciaed!!

[The Acidraptor]

Props for your info guys... Imma go ahead & commence my research...

[The Acidraptor]

Bydaway, have you guys checked my myspace page??? All my work!!!
Need more feedback ya kno...