Study1 A Skull

[MBStudios]

Hi all, I have been for a week now doing a study each day well mainly just for practice. They say that makes you better... hope so, anyway, I thought I would share this one..

Oh I added a step by step well sort of, its not every step but a few of the stages ...

Hope you enjoy..

MBStudios

Here is the steps

http://mbstudios.freeservers.com/images/SkullTut.JPG

Here is the final
http://mbstudios.freeservers.com/images/SkullFinal.JPG

[bOne]

Hey very nice step by step !!!

Did you use a reference ?

Well there is nothing to say but great anatomy and great light.

[MBStudios]

Originally posted by bOne
Hey very nice step by step !!!

Did you use a reference ?

Well there is nothing to say but great anatomy and great light.

Thank you, and Yes on the ref, it was a model.

MBStudios

[MBStudios]

I for got to mention a thank you for noticing the light.... worked hard on getting that just right...so Thank you again :)

[Lono]

sweet.

[negativespace]

Thanks for posting this. These step by step progressions help out alot. Please post more!

[Prometheus|ANJ]

Nice!

I think you should've made the teeth-lower nose area darker and stayed away from highlighting it so much. Perhaps it would be a good idea to suggest some dark forms inside the nose hole too.

[MBStudios]

Originally posted by Prometheus|ANJ
Nice!

I think you should've made the teeth-lower nose area darker and stayed away from highlighting it so much. Perhaps it would be a good idea to suggest some dark forms inside the nose hole too.


Teeth Lower: I disagree... This is a painting of what I was seeing... not an attempt to draw or replicate an anitomical correct scull.... also, I am not sure its an incorrect model of a skull I will however confirm that as it is supposed to be!!!
But I can say with assurety this painting is identical to the refference model I used. So if the model of the skull is incorrect I cant help that. Also, just a point the maxila bone of which the Teeth are conected to is accurate.
Also, since you comented on it then you should know that Skulls can be various shapes because of race and such effects it among other things. The maxila Bone here however is in proper proportion as to this skull. But so to better deomnstrate how they can differ so much I recomend you checck this out for comparison as it may be of help.
Various Skulls to compare (http://www.skullsunlimited.com/humanskullsrp.htm)

Nose Area Darker: I have found that compressed Pictures do not always reflect Darks and lights as you would like... but none the less it too is accurate depiction of my refference.
The question is what do you mean by Nose area? Are you reffering to the Nasal Bone, or Nasal Septum, or Middle Nasal Concha, or The interior Nasal Concha Bone?

Dark Forms in the Nose hole: Did that, perhaps though you are unable to see them... again though compressing a pic down so it can be displayed in a Forum loses alot of its effect.... However again and pardon my repeating this it is as I saw it :) Oh and Dark Forms? What Forms specifically are you reffering to you lost me here!!!
Stayed away from Highlighting: Again I disagree I painted the highlights I saw.. nearly Identical to what I saw.....
This is simply my impression of what I was seeing though I was using the ref for a guide and I was attepting to stay as near it as I possibly could

I am sorry but I must say one more thing.... please understand you offered me a critique let me now offer one...
Through out this Forum I have seen people draw their Self Portraits as well as other forms of painting as they see fit..

For example I saw a self portrait with what appeared to be Roots coming out of the head.... I have seen on purpose exagurated teeth, eyes, ears, hands, and so on... all of which is simply the interpretation of the artist feelings, mood, and so on....
I sugest unless someone should tell you here is thier attempt an an accurate anitomical skull that you shouldnt critique it as such.

To tell them to not highlight something that was done from a refference model not seeing the refference how can you tell them not to when you dont even know for sure its not on the ref.....

I hope you understand I offer this critique of your critique in the same spirit you gave me yours... you in your own way were trying to offer help so I too in that same spirit offer my help and critique of your critique.


:) MBStudios

Forgive my spelling In this area I admit my ignorance :)

[redehlert]

nicely rendered! a great challenge and one i'd say is very tough to pull off, but you have done a commendable job!

if you don't mind, i'm a medical illustrator, and would like to give some constructive criticism to your wonderful skull:

i'd say you're missing a few anatomical details like the foramen for the vessles and nerves (e.g. supraorbital foramen - sometimes a notch, and the infraorbital foramen, and zygomaticofacial foramen).
you'll also want to revise the highlight and tone on the zygomatic bone on the highlighted side of the skull because the outward ridge known as the temporal process is blending in with the temporal bone so you can't determine foreground and background. if you match what you have done on the shadow side all will be good.
it'd also be nice to appreciate the finer details of the skull - throw in the sutures where bone plates meet.
the highlighted skull side eye socket is missing the fossa for the lacrimal sac which is apparent on the shadow side.
the eyesockets themselves seem a bit large like a rounded square with a tad too much lipping of the infraorbital surface and i'm a bit confused about the little notches of the infraorbiatl surface that is proximal to the nasal cavity -- could you expound on this? it'd be like the eyes would spill out of their sockets with the way they are currently rendered.
the skull may not have all of it's maxillary teeth, but in case it does, count again. i'm counting 6 on the shadow side whereas the normal adult mouth has 8 uppers on each side (same with bottom).
and lastly, there seems to be a bit too much space from the anterior nasal spine and the top of the front teeth...not much, but enough to be noticeable.
question: are you using a plastic skull or a natural skull?
i guess if it were a natural skull, the anatomy you have rendered could indeed be exact, but there may have been some pathological issues.

okay....i'm done. hope this helps refine your anatomical skills! there are wonderful reference books out there to use in conjunction with your studies to provide accurate represenations.

cheers!
d

[AmadorL]

Just wounding what program you used and if you used wacom tablet. I have always liked skulls and I must say that this is a real nice rendering you have created. Keep up the good work.

Amador
________
XV1000 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Yamaha_XV1000)

[MBStudios]

Originally posted by redehlert
nicely rendered! a great challenge and one i'd say is very tough to pull off, but you have done a commendable job!

if you don't mind, i'm a medical illustrator, and would like to give some constructive criticism to your wonderful skull:

i'd say you're missing a few anatomical details like the foramen for the vessles and nerves (e.g. supraorbital foramen - sometimes a notch, and the infraorbital foramen, and zygomaticofacial foramen).
you'll also want to revise the highlight and tone on the zygomatic bone on the highlighted side of the skull because the outward ridge known as the temporal process is blending in with the temporal bone so you can't determine foreground and background. if you match what you have done on the shadow side all will be good.
it'd also be nice to appreciate the finer details of the skull - throw in the sutures where bone plates meet.
the highlighted skull side eye socket is missing the fossa for the lacrimal sac which is apparent on the shadow side.
the eyesockets themselves seem a bit large like a rounded square with a tad too much lipping of the infraorbital surface and i'm a bit confused about the little notches of the infraorbiatl surface that is proximal to the nasal cavity -- could you expound on this? it'd be like the eyes would spill out of their sockets with the way they are currently rendered.
the skull may not have all of it's maxillary teeth, but in case it does, count again. i'm counting 6 on the shadow side whereas the normal adult mouth has 8 uppers on each side (same with bottom).
and lastly, there seems to be a bit too much space from the anterior nasal spine and the top of the front teeth...not much, but enough to be noticeable.
question: are you using a plastic skull or a natural skull?
i guess if it were a natural skull, the anatomy you have rendered could indeed be exact, but there may have been some pathological issues.

okay....i'm done. hope this helps refine your anatomical skills! there are wonderful reference books out there to use in conjunction with your studies to provide accurate represenations.

cheers!
d




How do I reply to this... to be honest I had 2 paragraphs where I responded to each aspect... truthfully I am growing tired and weary of repeating myself...

I appreciate you wanting or feeling I need assitance and respect your knowledge...
But this not an attempt at a medical or other wise correct skeletal system.

This is a painting of a 3D model nothing more....If it has to many bones....or not enough... Sorry... I paint what I see...
Sometimes its what I see in front of me or sometimes itws from my minds eye....

I can if I desired to a correct skeletal system.. but thats not what I am doing... just quick studies that may not have all the information because of time contraints.. or because I just didnt want to... :)

While in school many years ago. I was aksed by A Doctor to do a illustration of a skelaton when I was done He was amazed... however, He quickly pointed out several areas that were wrong.....

Trying to figure out what happened I realized something and quickly pointed out the refference books He gave me to use had those areas just as I did them......

He said; The reffernce books were wrong.... lol we both had a great laugh and wrote the check out for my work.....

but that was then this is now..... I am simply painting to have fun... which means I may exagurate the form or add to it or take away from it what you get is what you get....

Thnx just the same

MBStsudios

[MBStudios]

Originally posted by AmadorL
Just wounding what program you used and if you used wacom tablet. I have always liked skulls and I must say that this is a real nice rendering you have created. Keep up the good work.

Amador

I use Painter 7......... I wish I had a Wacom but for now I am stuck with a Radio Shack AceCat 3 YUCK

But it works... however guess what Christmas is coming and so is my Wacom I hope PLEASE SANTA here my plea


Thank you for your kind comments on the rendering.... I put my heart into it..... and I will try to keep up the Good work...... working on Study3 right now..... posting ASAP

Thank you,

MBStudios

[MindCandyMan]

Quick question MB...what brushes did you use and at what general opacity did you use them. I am having a hard time with my paintings looking really fuzzy and I want them to be crisp. Thanks...great work.

[el coro]

yo, MB, take these crits with a grain of salt. realise that most of the people browsing this forum are probably crit hungry art students, or professionals who miss the crits in art school, so ya gotta realize, youre gonna take some knocks. i personally really like the skull, and think you did a great job on it, so stop being sooooo defensive. you have to know that everything that gets posted on here is gonna get critiqued somehow, and in my opinion, its really not worth all this kind of repitition of justification...take these comments lightly...we're all here to help eachother.i realise sometimes they can seem silly or knitpicky(did i spell that right?) but its not every day you can get a crit from a professional medical illustrator on a skull study you did. in short, take it in stride, man. i mean, i dont know your status(student, professional,ect...), but i can see you've got a lot of talent, just be more open minded to other peoples suggestions....my 2 cents-c36

[MBStudios]

Originally posted by MindCandyMan
Quick question MB...what brushes did you use and at what general opacity did you use them. I am having a hard time with my paintings looking really fuzzy and I want them to be crisp. Thanks...great work.


Brush I like and Captured Bristle, Lear Profile.. various sizes of course as needed.

Opacity... truthfully... I change this over the levels... my earliest levels my opacity might be 35 to 45% sometimes even less dependiing on the subject matter and goal I am shooting for...

At any rate as I get closer to the final levels I increase the opacity .... untill I reach the desired result....

However sometimes I do not try for real crisp I purposely kill my edges..... such as I did with the BatMan its not always a desired effect... but it seem to work for me at the moment... other times I hate the approach....

However besides Opacity there is another aspect that can kill the crisp look that is over blending or the type of blending tool you might use...

the smudge tool can be your friend or your worse enemy for instance...

not sure this is what you were looking for but I hope it helps in some way...

MBStudios

[redehlert]

hey mb,

you're right....i did critique your work because i care to share.
take what you want from what was done and yes, you're very talented and i'd have you on my staff if you knew the human form, physiology, pathology, embryology, neuroanatomy, forensics (which i did my thesis on - forensic facial reconstruction), anatomy, histology, etc. so...should you ever want to go this route, let me know and i'll push you in the right direction - you'd be a great addition to the association of medical illustrators.

i'm sorry i didn't read the other responses....didn't have time to so i realize you are repeating yourself...

please keep pushing your skillz and keep me posted on your future postings - i'll try not to be such the critique nut next time.

is that a deal?

cheers!
d

[MBStudios]

Originally posted by redehlert
hey mb,

you're right....i did critique your work because i care to share.
take what you want from what was done and yes, you're very talented and i'd have you on my staff if you knew the human form, physiology, pathology, embryology, neuroanatomy, forensics (which i did my thesis on - forensic facial reconstruction), anatomy, histology, etc. so...should you ever want to go this route, let me know and i'll push you in the right direction - you'd be a great addition to the association of medical illustrators.

i'm sorry i didn't read the other responses....didn't have time to so i realize you are repeating yourself...

please keep pushing your skillz and keep me posted on your future postings - i'll try not to be such the critique nut next time.

is that a deal?

cheers!
d


Forgive me,

I fear a little frustration may have poured out If there is anything I must work on it is watching that.... feeling a little under the weather and it shows... MY BAD

Yes thats a deal :)

[redehlert]

smooth....
don't sweat it mb.
there are much larger things in life to be worried about than a little constructive critique.
if it ever gets to you just remember to calm down.
chen t'ai chi and marathon training are great outlets for pent up feelings if you ever need a good out.
; )

cheers and have a groovy artistic weekend!
d

[MindCandyMan]

Thanks MB,
That helps a lot. I think I just need to block out my main colors first before I start to "blend". I need to remember I am a newbie and stick to the basics. Thanks for posting. It's great to see the love between you guys. :bheart: :fruit: Conflict is a good thing sometimes. Good stuff MB...and sheesh redehlert I can't even imagine having your job. Everything would have to be PERFECT...that has to be really demanding. Have you posted any of your stuff on here?

[redehlert]

mcm -
yeah, i have posted a few times here:

thread 1 (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1557)
thread 2 (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1556)
thread 3 (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=297)

the third thread link has a few images i have done (one of which is based on pathology of the skull and internal anatomy) - page 2 shows a final of the first image shown in page 1.

nothing major, just some stuff...

peace!
d

[MindCandyMan]

Holy cow...that one Nissen Fundoplication pic is INSANELY good!!!!!
:jawdrop:
I personally think if you can do that kind of technical work then you could paint anything. The perspective on that one where the skull was tipped over on the table or whatever....SHEESH...great great great stuff man. Doctors probably aren't the best audience for appreciating artwork...I work in the development office for University of Pennsylvania's Med Center so I know how they can be sometimes hehe. But I wanted to tell you how awesome these were. Wow...amazing. That's just as cool to me as a dragon or some huge beast honestly. One thing I had a question about...you said you zoom way in and use small brushes and palette knife. I have never go the hang of using the palette knife AT ALL. Could you tell me what exact settings you use for it and maybe the technique you use in applying your strokes?...I am very very new to painting so I would benefit greatly from it...thanks.

[Jucas]

Well since this skull is absolute, there is no reason for this thread to stay open. Might as well lock it, unless you are searching for more psychological masturbation.

On that note, why do you post here? I would die to critiques like these. This is an opportunity for you to expand your mind, perhaps in ways that you never thought desirable. Glenn Vilpu says, "There are only tools, never rules." Anatomical knowledge is a tool in which you can describe form and shape to the viewer better. It goes much further than knowing the name of bones. It WILL make you draw better, able to communicate your ideas, and that especially in concept art, is the most important thing.

Drawing "only" what you see, is not enough… period. If you do not understand what you are capturing/looking at, you are only grasping half of the offerings presented to you in a creative life. There is a fine line between people who "draw" and people who "DRAW" (no, it's not capital letters). Those who really "DRAW" analyze what they are presented with. It separates the thinkers from the sheep.

-J

[redehlert]

mcm -
wow....i'm completely humbled by your statements. thank you!
i wish i could tell you how i use the palette knife and the various brush sizes...it's been a wee bit and i'm still a newbie to using painter - wish i was using it more but i don't have the clientelle that can afford high-end stuff like that.
sigh.
i'm more of a photoshop guy at any rate.
the one thing i can tell you about painter is this: play!
the other thing is: use a lot of RAM for painter - it needs it.

as for the positioning of the skull - well....i did what mb did and that was using a reference - plastic skull and i drew on it with my client for the various 'holes' in the head.
; )

just don't watch me when i draw the human body....sometimes i flub that stuff more than i'd like to admit. that's what happens when you draw nothing but organs all the flippin' time.
after i do the seattle marathon, i'm going back to evening life drawing classes.
; )

again...thank you for the kudos - much appreciated!