Smokers get the shaft

[PencilPunx]

So tonight I went to a favorite hang out of mine, Dave & Busters (video arcade/bar) and upon walking up to the entrance I saw a large sign posted that said "Attention: Due to recent legislation, indoor smoking is no longer permitted in this county." That really got me riled up, as I loved kicking it in front of Chip Away or Derby Owners Club and chainsmoking while I threw my money away. I'm not much of a drinker, so smoking has been my social activity while going to bars with my friends. I know people in other states such as California have had to deal with this for awhile, but for me in the Northern Virginia/Washington DC area, this is the first time I've been confronted with the issue. Personally, I'm of the opinion that this is ridiculous. All it really does is hurt bar and restaurant owners who should be allowed to create and enforce their own smoking policies. I mean, if a bar manager is noticing a lot of complaints or a loss of patrons because of the smoke, they will choose to not allow smoking on their premises. With a legally enforced ban, the option is taken away from them, and they run the risk of losing even more customers (such as myself) who would rather drive to a different district where they can smoke indoors. I'd like to hear other peoples opinions though. Even though I'm a smoker, I'm sympathetic to non-smokers who would not like to have their health put at risk, but even before I started smoking a few years ago I was against an outright ban. I don't know, maybe I'm just an uptight nicotine fiend. Any thoughts?

[nikia]

I hear yah! We've had it go across this whole country. We're smokers. Chain smokers and huge coffee drinkers! Now we're second class citizens. Don't get what the big deal is. You're going to die anyway, may as well have fun doing it. Although I have told my kids not to smoke, except one. Reason being? Up here in Canada the doctors are starting to refuse to operate on you if you smoke!
This is one of my major pet peeves! The stupid thing is...........you get the exact same health problems just breathing in all the polluted air from cars and factories!
Drives me crazy!

[Fozzybar]

Originally posted by nikia
Although I have told my kids not to smoke, except one. Reason being? Up here in Canada the doctors are starting to refuse to operate on you if you smoke!

Cool! You told your kids not to smoke, because you don't want to pay extra money if they have to be operated...:rolleyes:

[ceenda]

Originally posted by nikia
Don't get what the big deal is. You're going to die anyway, may as well have fun doing it.

My mom is a nurse in a respiratory clinic and I'm sure she'd show you the amount of fun people had to get into the position they are in. Probably sucks even more if it was an environment of passive smoking that caused it.

Governments can stop the pollution problem. PEOPLE can stop the smoking one.

To be honest, I don't care if you shoot yourself in the head or drive off a cliff. However, the smoking analogy is like shooting others as well as yourself and driving through a crowd before you go over the cliff.

The sad fact is that banning smoking merely gives black market criminals more goods to trade in.

[PencilPunx]

Ceenda-
You make a valid point with your "driving through a crowd before going over a cliff" analogy. It is a tricky issue, because unlike shooting heroin or playing Russian Roulet you are exposing others to health risks. However, I feel like this: If you are old enough to be buying cigarettes, or frequenting places that smokers typically inhabit (bars/clubs) you are an adult, and should be trusted to handle yourself as one. Whether you are a smoker or non-smoker, you are capable of evaluating for yourself if you want to be a part of a particular environment. If you don't smoke, and walk into a room full of smokers, you can say either "This is disgusting me, it's not worth it for me to be here" or "This is pretty foul, but I can stand it for a few hours." Conversely, I, as a smoker, can walk into a room, see no one is smoking and decide for myself whether I want to stay and resist the urge, leave and find a more suitable environment, or stay, smoke, and risk getting my ass kicked. I try to be a responsible smoker. I don't throw cigarette butts on the ground, I stand at least 20ft away from doorways, and if someone ever asks me to put it out because it's bothering them I do so or move far enough away that I'm not disturbing them. Everything I've just listed provides multiple solutions to different scenarios. My whole point here is that I think it more fair to level the playing field by allowing people to deal with these situations themselves as opposed to having government intervention that comes down against one particular group. It goes beyond mere inconvenience, it's a matter of principal for me.

Thank you for playing counter-point with me though. I respect your opinion on the issue and I'm happy you shared it:)

[mtw]

People are too uptight about second hand smoke.

[ceenda]

PencilPunx: Thanks. I re-read my post a bit later and thought I'd gone a bit OTT and was just about to put on some asbestos pants and welding-visor. ;) I agree with alot of what you say there and for the record I still go to smoky pubs and bars and I'm not the kind of person who'll cough loudly or rudely when friends light-up a cigarrette. I guess coming from a family of medics and doctors you kinda get doctrinated with the whole smoking thing (that said, it's amazing how much alcohol doctors drink...).

In a perfect world cigarettes would be harmless, but I get what you're saying. Thanks. :)

[tremmor]

im 16 and i smoke, i even chain smoke,

my parents smoke, and my sister who is 14 smokes too, we're not proud of it, but i like to smoke, if i get bored, i easely eat or drink, and smoking keeps me from snacking too much, i mean if it were illegal (or just too expensive), i think alot of smokers will search for substitutes, like snacking too much, drinking more then they would when they smoked,

i mean: snacking too much= overweight, un-attractive, heart problems, ardery problems, movement problems, back problems, and they also can refuse FAT people for operating because their tongue could get so fat that it would block their longues when they're sleeping with pills or that gass

drinking too much= you get un-attractive, drunk, low-life, + you're a bum, bumbumbumbumbum.

and i just think, people should smoke responsibly like PencilPunx, and decide when they are ready to stop smoking, it's not good by the government to make it illegal or raise the prices on sigarettes every week so people are forced to stop.

well, thank god for beer :beer: :chug: :beer:

signed, your earthy master, Me

[nikia]

You don't get it Fozzybar, the doctors won't operate no matter how much money you have. And money is not an issue for health care in this country. Everyone has access to health care professional here, even if they don't have money. That includes operations, etc. And even if we didn't have such a good health care system, I would sell or morgage my house again, whatever it took to give any of my children or grandchild the money they needed for an operation. It's just that the doctors are getting so they won't operate and I think it's going to be worse in the future. Personally I don't care if my kids smoke or not, it's up to them, after all there are a whole lot worse things they could have gotten into out there in the world.

And yes, ceenda, like PencilPunx, we don't smoke if someone around us doesn't, THAT INCLUDES SMOKING IN OUR OWN HOUSE if someone comes to visit or stay who doesn't smoke. We go outside when our grandchild is here, etc. A major reason I don't quit smoking is because of weight gain. Anyone in our family that has quit smoking has gained at LEAST 100lbs. Since the smoking ban in Canada, the major cause of death in Canadian women is Obesity! NO THANK YOU SIR! I WILL KEEP SMOKING!

If they ever come out with a product where you can quit without all the nasty withdrawals and no weight gain, then I will quit!

[bRyaN]

Pencil, you hit the nail on the head bro...

I follow just about the same guidelines that you do...

This shit is getting ridiculous...

[Fozzybar]

ok, nikia...sorry, now i got it...strange things happen over there...

[Cpagan]

Well I feel for both sides. I used to smoke for 3 years but i also live in Utah...a place where its illegal to smoke inside and soon to be illegal to smoke in an open area of certain places (i.e. the Temple and Temple Square areas, you get a fine if you smoke there)

Honestly its all about courtesy. Just like everything else is in a social gathering. All of the points made by PencilPunx were things I used to do as well. They work and everyone is cool with it. Sure some people get up tight about it but all you have to do to deal with them is just be a little bit more polite then normal.

It's a huge debate over smoking (at least in Utah) and my two cents on the matter is that if you are old enough to be a legal adult, you are old enough to make your own decisions on what you put into your body. Just like when your 18 you can get a tattoo or piercing without parental concent cause it is assumed you know what is best for you at that age.

[nikia]

Peace Fozzybar.:)

[PencilPunx]

Just in case this thread dies soon I wanted to make sure to thank everyone who replied. I was a little worried this would turn into a "smoking is good" vs "smoking is bad" debate and not about discussing the legal issues. Everyone kept it civil and intelligent and I really appreciate the discussion. So, thank you nikia, Fozzybar, ceenda, mtw, bRyaN, tremmor, and Cpagan for contributing your opinions.:chug:

[AnarchyAo2]

Okay, I'm totally against smoking becuase I saw what it did to my grandmother over the years (in the end she had to get a lung transplant), BUT I don't think its constitutional for the goverment to say "No, you can't smoke here! No smokers here!" I mean, your not gonna die from being in a bar, breathing in 2nd hand smoke. And if you don't like it, go somewhere else! There arn't cig's on every inch of the earth! I"m sure you could find somewhere else to stand and not breath it. Theres worse things then 2nd hand smoke. Like...obesity! I bet that McDonalds causes more deaths then 2nd hand smoke does!
"Its a heart attack on a bun!"~Squidward!
yeah! Damn straght Squid!