Drawing materials

[OldNick]

I have been drawing using a black col-erase pencil for many months now because this is what was used in a series of instructional DVDs from mattsillustration.com. Ever since, I have seen great improvement in my work.

I recently started an art class which required that I have a 2H, 4H, HB, 2B, 4B, 6B, and 8B pencil. Yesterday I tried using these pencils outside of class and I was not satisfied with the results. This may be because I was not so familiar with these pencils, but I also find it difficult to imagine using so many different pencils and somehow creating an image in which there is a smooth transition from one value to another. Using multiple pencils just seems unnecessary.

Would you recommend using the col-erase pencil or a variety of pencils? If it comes down to personal preference, what are the pros and cons of each, if any there are any?

I also want to start drawing in black and white and this image of Snake and Eva (http://transfuse.deviantart.com/art/Snake-and-Eva-49688903) most closely resembles the style that I am pursuing. What materials would I need to create such an image? I already have fine and ultra fine sharpies but I imagine that I would need another pen that is a bit more precise in order to create the finer details.

Thanks.

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Col-erase pencils are basically erase-able colored pencils correct? (Have never used one personally) Even subtle changes in medium can require some getting used to. My advice is treat the pencils as learning a new medium, and use the opportunity to explore your problem solving skills.

This thread (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=150887) talks more about pencils. Can't help you with pen techniques unfortunately.

[CCThrom]

That image was almost certainly drawn with a digital tablet or Cintiq... IF it were not done in digital media, the artist would have used brush-and-ink for the lines and brush with some kind of opaque white for the cut-in effects around the bottom of the image. Still my money's on digital in this case.

Of course most folks around here recommend getting good with traditional media before investing in a digital setup. In addition to the marking pens you already have, I recommend getting a decent brush and a bottle of India ink. Or at least, for cheap ink starters get a few Pitt brush-tip pens.

By the way, most people that work in graphite don't use the whole range of pencils. They have a few favorite ones. That full range of H and B hardness is not really used the way you're thinking to create tonal gradients... it is a case of different tools for different purposes. The very hard graphite (in your case 2H) is usually used for light sketching and when you plan to ink over the pencils. The soft graphite (up to 6B) is often used for rendering when you want dark lines and a softer, smudgier pencil. Personally I pretty much stick to B or HB for most things... tonal gradients are more often created by increasing and decreasing pressure, not by mixing different graphite hardness.

[J Wilson]

Using the whole range of pencils IS unnecessary. We vary pressure on pencils to get diffferent tones, so the very concept of needing so many pencils is silly Pencil companys sell more pencils that way so they'll keep selling whole sets, so the real problem is teachers asking students to buy the whole sets. I have no idea why they do it.

The black Col Erase is probably preferred by that artists because it's closer to black rather than a grey like graphite pencils. They are likely less smudgey too.

I agree with CCThrom, that image was probably digital, but you can practice that kind of style by getting a bottle of ink, a good fine brush, and a bottle of Pro White (or other white gouache).

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Using the whole range of pencils IS unnecessary. We vary pressure on pencils to get diffferent tones, so the very concept of needing so many pencils is silly Pencil companys sell more pencils that way so they'll keep selling whole sets, so the real problem is teachers asking students to buy the whole sets. I have no idea why they do it.

The only way to get really hard pencils here is to buy a set. I just take some of the pencils I don't use out, and replace them with other stuff because the tins are flat and fit in my bag easily. Plus, lets you keep some pencils with normal tip, and some wedged, etc.

[OldNick]

I searched the opaque white and india ink and I found several different types so I just picked one of each.

Opaque White (http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_product.cfm?classId=1016&subclassID=101611&brandname=%&item=29672)

Inia Ink (http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_product.cfm?classId=1516&subclassID=151616&brandname=&item=39632)

Will these two be fine?

I can't seem to find the fine brush. Could someone link me to a site where I may buy one?

On the deviantart page, he said that he used a sharpie marker, a drawing pen, and photoshop. The fine brush isn't used for the really thin strokes and fine details, is it? Would I need a certain drawing pen as he mentioned, or will my sharpies and the brush be all I need to create such a range of details?

Thanks for your help, all who replied.

[J Wilson]

Ink, don't get "non waterproof". You need water proof because you'll be painting white over it, and if the ink isn't waterproof you'll get grey instead.
Try : http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_product.cfm?item=36930 or something similar.

On white gouache, I've normally used stuff in jars. If you use a tube you'll need to thin it some, and then you can get some inconsistency.
Try: http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_product.cfm?item=41671

The Winsor Newton Series 7 sable watercolor brushes are excellent. They are pricey, but if you take good care of them they last a while. Ink is rough on them though, so they won't last as long as they would with watercolor.
http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_products.cfm?classID=1211&subclassID=121110&brandname=Winsor%20%26%20Newton%20Series%207

There are probably other good brushes, and even cheap synthetic ones can work for practicing a style. The good sable ones just keep nice crisp tips for much longer, and they have more body.


As for the technique, I'd recommend trying the brush for all of it. If you get the feel for it, they give a great range of line weights and a ton of flexibility. Sharpies or other pens will work too. Whatever you find comfortable.

[Bowlin]

Using the whole range of pencils IS unnecessary. We vary pressure on pencils to get diffferent tones, so the very concept of needing so many pencils is silly Pencil companys sell more pencils that way so they'll keep selling whole sets, so the real problem is teachers asking students to buy the whole sets. I have no idea why they do it.

The black Col Erase is probably preferred by that artists because it's closer to black rather than a grey like graphite pencils. They are likely less smudgey too.



This is simply not true. There are a lot of good reasons to have a good variations on the different range of pencils. For one, "different strokes for different folks". Personally, I've always had a difficult time with values and different range of pencils help teach you how to handle different values.

It's not the same when the surface is carefully rendered in 4H with moderate pressure as compared to a 4B with light pressure.

Perhaps the best way to look at it is to compare it to making a tight drawing for a painting. 6B graphite does not give the same value and feel as dark paint. So that's why that black col erase would come in handy. With certain lighting conditions keeping the shadow and light areas separate, having that black col erase for shadows and 2B to 3H for light areas (just an example), might help more easily determine your value range. When you mix paint, it might be easier to mix a range of different values than constantly trying to mix different values out of one little pile. So the process of applying different values of paint could be compared to applying different value pencils, one at a time.

[J Wilson]

This is simply not true. There are a lot of good reasons to have a good variations on the different range of pencils. For one, "different strokes for different folks". Personally, I've always had a difficult time with values and different range of pencils help teach you how to handle different values.

It's not the same when the surface is carefully rendered in 4H with moderate pressure as compared to a 4B with light pressure.

Perhaps the best way to look at it is to compare it to making a tight drawing for a painting. 6B graphite does not give the same value and feel as dark paint. So that's why that black col erase would come in handy. With certain lighting conditions keeping the shadow and light areas separate, having that black col erase for shadows and 2B to 3H for light areas (just an example), might help more easily determine your value range. When you mix paint, it might be easier to mix a range of different values than constantly trying to mix different values out of one little pile. So the process of applying different values of paint could be compared to applying different value pencils, one at a time.

I didn't mean to suggest you only need ONE pencil, but very few people need the whole range. For most people, I'd think 3 pencil (a light, mid, and dark) would give a pretty good range.

[Bowlin]

Oh I see, my bad then, I apologize. I have had bad misconceptions about it for years and wouldn't like to see anyone else end up the same way. Plus, over here, there's various art stores that sell them all individually.

I didn't really realize the importance of using such a dark pencil till lately. Greg and Tim Hildebrandt's use a black prismacolor pencil for their tight drawings and it made me realize the importance of that for preparation for a painting. For a lot of artist the drawing should look almost like a black and white painting. A guide to judge your values for mixing your paint. So three pencils for light, midtones and shadows is a good idea, but for some paintings it might achieve other range of light, midtones and shadow that can't be acquired from simply pressure. Buying the whole set a newbie can experiment what effect each does and could be a big advantage for a lot of people. Such as, realizing how the high H values could be beneficial for keeping lines light for watercolor drawings.

Learning how to make the value transition from so many different pencils might not be too far from making value transitions in paint, also.

[CCThrom]

Zixor, I don't see why that gouache wouldn't work... though as J Wilson mentioned "Pro White" is what I'd start with.

Personally I don't like Higgins ink... a little too watery for my taste. My recommendations are Windsor/Newton India, P.H. Martin's "Black Star", FW India, or FW Acrylic. FW Acrylic is very liquid-thin like Higgins, but gives a better black IMO.

A good pointed brush can be used for both fine lines and wide fills... but it takes a little practice. Windsor/Newton series 7 is kind of an industry standard. I've had some of these brushes for over 15 years and they're still working well. I also like Isabey sable. "Fine brush" isn't what you'd look for... try looking for a "round" or "pointed round" brush. A good general-purpose size to start with is a #1. #000 is about as small as you'd get, and anything over a #2 is getting too big for inking details (unless you like to work big or very graphic-simple).

Try this: http://www.dickblick.com/products/isabey-short-handle-pure-kolinsky-sable-round/

[J Wilson]

Here is the link to Pro White. The link I used above was a similar product from another brand:
http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_products.cfm?classID=1016&subclassID=101612&brandname=Daler%2DRowney