Your advice to people wanting crit

[paramnesia]

People on Concept Art have their preferences when it comes to which pieces they critique. Some stick to more “serious” posts, those that are done by people who plan to pursue their craft to a more professional degree, be it a full time job or something on the side. Others don’t mind giving advice to those for whom art is a hobby.

One thing that seems to pop up regularly are complaints that CA “is only for serious business” and people should chill and stop making “life speech(es)” about art as a career.

I’ve always viewed CA as a much more honest and, yes, sometimes harsh place, but because there are quite a few here for whom art is a living one gets unique and often valuable input. Unfortunately, I think it sometimes makes newcomers feel “insignificant” and “small”. There are a lot of other art sites to go for typical replies and generic encouragement, dA, Sheezy, etc. Not that they’re bad places, but I view them more as community sites to share work and show off and not really the best place to seek crit.

Here are my questions: How do you view CA’s crit and WIP forums? What is acceptable when presenting a work for crit, i.e. do you dislike vague sketches or incomplete drawings, are there situations when it’s okay, such as a study of hands or feet, etc.? Also, do you have advice to newcomers here when it comes to what kind of critique to expect and how to handle it?

[TASmith]

the most important thing is to actually care, and want to improve, no matter the skill level. We want to see work put in and continued based on crits. Sometimes conflicts arise when a student is looking for credit and praise rather than criticism.

[Aaron Death]

If I understand correctly, CA is for people who want to improve, and harsh crits are what we need. The fact that people take it as a hobby doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to improve. Though if someone wants to boast, he will probably feel insignificant.

And people crit vague sketches and incomplete drawings as well. A mistake is a mistake, no matter if it is in finished works or sketches. Plus, artists make far more sketches than finished works. It is through sketches that they learn anatomy, light and shade, etc......

[Bruce Pluto]

Paramnesia…this is a good question IMO

First of all I can only speak for myself, but usually I will only give crits to a post when the member is asking for help or asking what they should do next. If the artwork already has 50 responses I likely won’t add anything because I feel the ground has been covered. But this goes for FINISHED work too. There are so many good artists on CA and so much excellent work that I feel I can’t respond to everything.

Now, my whole purpose in posting crits ( I prefer guidance or opinion over the word crits but that‘s just how I feel) is to give advice and encouragement. I never want someone to feel like they don’t have a shot at an art career. I myself do it as a hobby. Anyway when I do make a crit it is in the purpose of steering/showing a different way of looking at things. I have had lots of help from members myself and they have always been right. Also you’ve mentioned that the crits here are harsh, well better for one to get their weaknesses worked out here than with their portfolio in front of an art director somewhere. Also members and nonmember alike must realize that most anything you do will take hard work and endurance. An art career is no different. There may be times when one feels like giving up ( and lots will) but if a person sticks to their guns then there is always room for really good art.

I’m not sure if this answers your question but I’ve been here almost 4 years and folks have come and gone. Many of the older members are still here and that’s what it’s gonna take to see movement into an art career.

Hope that helped, Bruce

[kev ferrara]

A good critique isn't about harshness, it's about accuracy! It only seems harsh because art is personal.

[rattsang]

if it isn't "harsh" is it really a crit? all works have areas that can be improved even work by the best professionals. i think that anyone can point out a mistake that someone else may have missed even if the person giving the advice is of a much lower skill level, however some people may hold back in saying something thinking they will look foolish pointing out a mistake made by someone who is obviously better than themselves.
i avoid critiquing ppl who dont follow advice or fob it off saying their errors are intentional "its just meant to look like that....." i love that line its such a brush off.

[Chris Bennett]

One thing I always try and keep in mind is that a flesh and blood person is going to read what I have put and that they have feelings just like me. Honest and accurate appraisals do you nothing but good, even if the crit is pretty heavy, but respect for someone, even if you are saying something they may not want to hear, should always be there.

[arttorney]

Rattsang- I think the posts like "Awesome Dude!" "I want to have your baby!" and all that stuff are useless but I think it can be very useful to point out something specific that worked. (e.g. "I like the way the woman's arms and the mandolin form a triangle with her face.")

Sometimes the artist was not even aware of what they did that was good, but if they know that they can do it again.

I often try to find some good specific thing like that to toss into the criticism in the hopes it will help mitigate the sting of something like "Oh! That's supposed to be a woman? Well then I'd say usually women only have two legs, but it's your painting."

To OP- people can focus their crits better for you if you have a specific area you can express interest in. (e.g. "I am mostly concerned with the folds on her dress. Why is it they look wrong to me?" "How did I do on the perspective in this one?")

[Grief]

One thing that seems to pop up regularly are complaints that CA “is only for serious business” and people should chill and stop making “life speech(es)” about art as a career.

i turn the critique center into serious business.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=141326
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=140570 NSFW
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=139758
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117208

[Black Spot]

In the crit section vague sketches or incomplete drawings are fine as long as there’s a question the artist needs answering, but in the WIP it’s fine without, except it might help if the viewer knew where the artist wanted to go.

Just remember that as the artist you might have a vision for your picture and that critiques are a suggestion, not an order, even if like mine, they can be a bit brusque. People who post replies there, are there to help, not to put you down, and it’s up to you to act on their advice.

And nobody is insignificant and small here, only attitudes. Don’t be scared, I do check most of the entries on the crit section and try to be as honest as possible. Why don’t you look at the other stuff and comment if you think you can add to it, even if only agreeing with someone else’s opinion? It will not only make you less afraid to post your stuff, but give you additional insights to your own work.

Grief, I checked out that third link at work (not logged in) and had to scroll really fast.

[paramnesia]

Hope that helped, Bruce
Every reply helps, and hopefully shows that the majority of people on CA I believe aren't out to make people feel bad. I think it's that the people who do give good crit here want to go beyond "good work", which may be all the poster is used to receiving.

A good critique isn't about harshness, it's about accuracy! It only seems harsh because art is personal.
Very true. I really like this statement.

[cirekoy]

To me, art is very personal and opinionated and needs to be treated as such. Yes, pointing out things that people might not like is an absolute requirement for improvement, but it's just good to remember how much effort and personal investment can go into a work. I've read criticism that says, "This is just a horrible, bad drawing" or the like. Of course people are going to be defensive after reading that, regardless of what comes after.

People tend to be more receptive when criticism is very specific because it feels less personal. I also tend to include at least one positive somewhere. Yes, criticism is about improvement not making people feel good, but I feel that encouragement to keep trying is itself an important element of criticism.

[deepbluehue]

One thing to consider about learning to take criticism is that in the professional world, when you are a production artist, you are producing work for some one else. Your work will have to meet the standards of the production, and your art director will be constantly critiquing your work. In animation, you work with a lot of different artists and various people will be touching your work and maybe even requiring you to change it. Sometimes you have to completely redo your work if your art director asks you to. Being able to take criticism without letting it become personal for you will make you valuable to your director. No one likes to work with a primadonna who can't take a directive.

All that being said, some of the best critiques I've received were shocking enough to sting. That kind of critique nags at you and demands to be explored.

I just wanted to add that being able to critique your own work is necessary if you want to have any kind of control over it. Standing back and knowing when things aren't feeling right, being able to access the situation and improve your work when necessary is empowering. It's a discipline that you can learn by taking criticism and trying to apply it to your work.

[MyOrangeHat]

Grief, it's the second link that's NSFW not the third! You might want to fix that. I too was mightily surprised when I clicked on the link in my school's writing lab! lol

[Jazz]

hey, paramnesia. :) I think you got some interesting questions there! Reminded me to go back to those two sections you mentioned, since I was only there once or twice. -_-

To answer your questions, though I've rarely posted anything in the Critique and WIP sections, I like that you can go inside and get some more critiques than you might normally receive. It can be helpful to have another set of eyes or several to help out. ;)

As for what's acceptable...I guess whatever you want to improve on, whatever you need help. Even if you're just curious, if you have something to show that someone could advise on, that's awesome enough to me! I tell ya, I draw heads a LOT, mainly because I have trouble with heads. While this is fine, I know that sometimes I'm gonna want to have my head attached to a body. If you want to show that you're challanging yourself with the crits, that's also really good, I think.

What kinds of critique you'll receive pretty much depends of who's giving it (I'm sure someone said that already but eh). I'm thorough, and sometimes write the way my mood is. But normally with critiques what someone might deem "harsh", it's just me being very detailed in my response. Long-winded ain't always good (I ramble), but when I need to let a person know specifically what I mean, I will go on. Like others said, I'm not out to get you, either! Not trying to keep you down, but I want to bring my observations to your attention! :) :D

[Nibras]

I agree with most of what's being said.
Some people post in the critique centre expecting praise and "omg man you are my hero that is so damn skillful" and other say they want crits and then when they get them they start trying to defend themselves by making excuses.
You gotta really want crits and advice and always keep in mind you asked for it, these people just sacrificed 10mins of their lives just to tell you how to make your piece better. You gotta respect them for that and take what they say to heart. Also they weren't asking you for excuses to why you didn't do that or whatever they just gave you an honest opinion about how to improve.
If people see that you can't take the crit it's more likely you won't get any more crits.

I know that it can be hard just excepting that your piece really isn't as amazing as you thought it was but always remember people are just tryina help you that's what we all love about CA.

Another point is to actually put some work into your piece before posting it in the Critique centre, no body is going to do your work for you if that's what you want to get out of it. Am sure more people will try to help you if they see you've put effort and you really want help.

Other than that I guess be nice and polite, please don't go around acting like your it, it's more likely to get people not giving you any crits and also take all the crits you get and be happy that there's people who are this kind in the world :P

Peace
nibras

[Psypomp]

I did a search for criticism because I was about to make my own thread about it... glad I found this one.

There are people who post on, say, your sketchbook thread with glowing comments, but nothing useful. I really haven't seen people flat out say, "You're an idiot, this sucks," but there are ways of being hurtful without using such language.

If you tell an artist that something looks wrong, but don't follow it up with advice, it's just as annoying as having someone say, "This is a masterpiece!" and nothing else. For people who are very sensitive (like me) and already have a low opinion of their art, a comment like this leaves them confused and maybe a little offended. People come on here to critique art, not the person making the art, but if the critique just consists of negative words, it may be taken the wrong way.