"talent"

[GoatyGoat]

warning, friggin text wall

A while back, I was told that in order to be a good artist, you needed to have talent. When I asked this person what they meant by talent, they wavered a bit, finally saying "your brain just has to be made a certain way, I guess."

This was before I had started seriously drawing, so at the time, I wasn't producing great stuff, and struggled with the fact that I wasn't just churning out masterpieces. I figured that, oh well, I guess I wasn't born with that talent, too bad.

Skip forward to YEARS later-I'm not exactly popping out masterpieces, but after tons and tons of practice, I'm pulling out decent work, and am actually proud of the amount of skill I've obtained. I'm happily showing the pictures to the person from before, and they say, "Wow, you're really talented!"

The strangest thing happened right there. I'm not sure why, but I was actually somewhat offended. I had taken to heart what they said years ago, that you just needed talent to draw, and if you weren't born with that magical ability to art too bad-you'll never be able to meet the ranks of all those other -talented- artists.

Yet, Here I was, a greatly untalented kid who just plain had a passion for art, and simply worked my ass off day by day, year after year until I finally gained the skills and started building things up from there.

Is this weird? I know people mean it as a compliment when they call you gifted or talented in regards to your art, but I can't help but be rubbed the wrong way. I want to ask, "Oh, it's just talent then? Okay, what about those years and years of working, studying, practicing, drawing and sketching that it took to get to where I am? You mean I just wasted all that time, when I could have just used this super talent powder to get to the level I wanted?"

When I bring up hard work at all, they just shrug it off, saying I still wouldn't have been able to get to the level I am if it weren't for my 'talent.'

I KNOW people mean it in a good way, and it is a compliment, but again I can't help but get irritated. Does anyone else feel this way, or am I just being an unappreciative snot?

[ShroudStar]

Talent matters very little unless you work hard for it. Actually, the concept of "talent" should be equal to Einstein's 1% inspiration quote. See, since elementary school on for me, I was told I was talented up until high school. Only now do I realize that "talent" means nothing if I don't crack my ass into shape and hunker down, study, and draw. Hard work means more to me now, even if talent is one miniscule factor in it.

[Farvus]

Well. In the few last years you propably got drastic changes in your brain structure so now it's made that "certain way". It's a new scientific mystery :).

[Grief]

Arnold Palmer is in a bunker off the green, and he's in a tight fix. After silently staring down the ball and a few practice waves above the surface of the sand he addresses the shot. he swings and the ball takes flight where it speeds across the green and slows down in time to drop effortlessly into the cup.

a man calls out to him "That was pretty lucky!"
Palmer turns to the man and says "Yea, but I notice the more I practice the luckier I get."

[karmiclychee]

Makes sense. You believe that some people are just handed their gifts on a plate, that they don't have to work for them. Fast forward a bunch of years and you've worked your ass off to earn the gift that other people seem to have mailed to them. Next thing you know, someone's just assuming that you didn't have to work your ass off to get to where you are.

The whole "I'm impressed but my grapes are sour" thing. I'd say you'd be silly to let it get too under your skin - people can't know unless you explain it to them with diagrams and youtube videos on the subject - but you're still justified in being irked.

[MyOrangeHat]

I know exactly how you feel. It completely rubs me the wrong way too when someone says I'm talented. I'm not talented dammit, I worked hard! And somehow when the talent word comes out it just feels like the work involved is disregarded. As if somehow the 50-hour drawing magically appeared onto the page with the greatest of ease. I do know it is meant as a compliment, but it does make me bristle when someone says the t word. I just smile and say thank you though. No use acting offended at a compliment of all things. :)

[Elwell]

Search function FTW.

[Whyte MaN]

I have always hated the word talent.
Especially in a learning atmosphere, the word should be deleted.

It's synonyms like "Skill" and "Ability" should be used instead.

Let me explain. Keep it in mind Im not trying to sound intelligent. Just trying to get my point across.
Now some of us have certain connections of neurons from birth that gives us an edge over others with certain skills. Most people refer that as talent.
But if you break it down, talent is just the strengthened neurol pathway.
The more you repeat an action over and over the stronger that particular connection gets. Thus the better you get at that action. This is something that anyone can achieve providing that they have what is considered to be an average functioning brain. If you have learned to walk and talk then you can develop any other skill.

But the word talent never seems to be implied that people who are not born with it can achieve it. Its mostly thought as you have it or you don't. I think this is so detrimental to children who develop later then others. They may believe those skills they presently don't have they can not have, because no one ever called them talented. Talent is nothing but a presently owned skill.
With repetition and education anyone can develop a skill.

So if you get angry with someone calling you talented, just keep in mind they are just pointing out the great skill you have. Which of course is a nice compliment.

[jhimmelman]

I've always thought talent is something you've just got, and skill is something you work at. There's a ton of really talented artists out there who aren't doing anything with art now because they haven't worked hard enough to develop their skills.

[Miskatonika]

I know exactly what you mean :( My husband is a doctor in the military, and I have had many of his colleagues say "WOW, you're so talented! I could NEVER do that!" At which point I try to convince them that only 2 years ago I couldn't draw for crap and I am only now improving, after tons of practice. I'll tell them that they should try it sometime, they might like it. Then they give the reason that you "have to be born with it" or something along those lines.

The infuriating part is that they do not see the parallel between their own medical studies and art. I could also be a doctor if I did it every day, studied a lot, worked 8-30 hour shifts etc. It is a skill you learn, just like any other.

I just try not to get worked up, and tell them you can do anything if you put your mind to it :)

[bcarman]

Mozart was writing concertos before he was 10. He didn't work as hard or for as long as some writing concertos at 30, 40, or 50. He kept working and did even more brilliant work. Everyone starts in a different place and maybe we can call that talent. If someone really talented is lazy, someone who is less gifted can certainly pass and overtake that lazy person in achievement. When I first saw the sketchbooks of James Jean I never thought that they had been done by someone in his twenties. The fact that his work has grown and that he has achieved so much while still so young is a combination of extraordinary talent and an incredible work ethic. I knew a kid in high school that could run like the wind. He was surely destined to go on to greatness with his world-class speed. I saw him 20 years later overweight and lazy. He had the gift but wasted it by not working. If someone gives you a compliment about how talented you are just say "thank you and I work hard too".

[Flashback]

If you're NOT talented, The ART POLICE will GET YOU!

[Orban]

Mozart was writing concertos before he was 10. He didn't work as hard or for as long as some writing concertos at 30, 40, or 50. He kept working and did even more brilliant work. Everyone starts in a different place and maybe we can call that talent. If someone really talented is lazy, someone who is less gifted can certainly pass and overtake that lazy person in achievement. When I first saw the sketchbooks of James Jean I never thought that they had been done by someone in his twenties. The fact that his work has grown and that he has achieved so much while still so young is a combination of extraordinary talent and an incredible work ethic. I knew a kid in high school that could run like the wind. He was surely destined to go on to greatness with his world-class speed. I saw him 20 years later overweight and lazy. He had the gift but wasted it by not working. If someone gives you a compliment about how talented you are just say "thank you and I work hard too".

About Mozart, something people forget is that his father was a compositor too that made him work everyday since he was born, or nearly.
So he has to work a lot, like us.
Beethoven produce most of his major work pretty late, in fact, when he was nearly deaf... because he begin to work on music pretty late too, and well, he was struggling at the beginning, but he persist.
In our visual world, we often forget that most of the master we love work like madman in their youth, and nearly only on their plastic skill. Education has change.
Here we can talk about Picasso (his father was a drawing teacher) and Van Gogh – two master, who got to work hard at a different time of their live to get the so called talent.

So yeah, maybe we have so better skill to begin with. Still, we can devellop them.
And, as a guitar teacher of mine told me once, music is not one skill but many (hearing, rhythm, manual dexterity, logical skill, and so on). It's the same in our fields...

The only things most genius got that other people don't : persistance.

[SigonWulf]

"Your talented" is pretty much another way of saying "I like your work."

[Flashback]

Didn't Van gogh produced his best works in the last 10 years of his life?

[mir]

There was this discussion sometime ago if you want to have a look:
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123502

[pitabread]

Is this weird? I know people mean it as a compliment when they call you gifted or talented in regards to your art, but I can't help but be rubbed the wrong way. I want to ask, "Oh, it's just talent then? Okay, what about those years and years of working, studying, practicing, drawing and sketching that it took to get to where I am? You mean I just wasted all that time, when I could have just used this super talent powder to get to the level I wanted?"

I know where you are coming from. It used to bug me too, but got over it by realizing these people are just trying to pay a compliment, and people have a funny view of art-skills and that is it possible to learn how to draw.

Actually, one which bugged me the most was when a person complimented me on my "God-given talent". I almost responded, "Not God-given. Me-earned." But I bit my tongue and smiled instead. :P

[omer-n]

I don't agree with all that's been said here.

first i need to say that i believe that in order to just draw, you need to learn and practice , its an acquired skill but after you practice and learn to draw that doesn't mean your art has quality, in regarding to mentioning mozart and the likes.
talent in the visual arts as i see it is a kind of a natural "over" sensitivity one has to the aesthetics of nature, to the inner quality of the outer appearance of it (nature). it can be the gesture of the figure, the individuality of the appearance of an object, creature, human face/body anatomy etc. it is the part that comes naturally to the artist, the part the "feels"
the working hard part is related mainly to the craftsmenship and also to the communication of the visual from whats in your head to paper/others like language.
now i know, you can say that craftsmenship, is a talent too and so is communicating skills, yet these can be applied on their own to other areas like advertising (communication) or goldsmith (craftsmenship) for example
plus these can be aquired. i doubt that sensitivity i'm talking about can be aquired the same as the others mentioned above, i might be wrong but i imagine that if you take 1000 people and train them in the visual arts, all the same and they all practice hard for let's say 4 years, only some will get very good results and from these some, only a few will get amazing stuff , those are the talented ones.

hope to read your thoughts of this......

[Jasonwclark]

Talent is what you pay someone when they've done a nice job for you. To have 'talent' is to have gold - by definition, so don't sweat it the next time someone says you don't have any. The good ones die broke anyway, and most of us will be pushing up daisies well before fame starts entering into the equation. As long as you enjoy what you're doing, you'll be fine.

Also the search function, but Elwell already covered that. ;)

[GoatyGoat]

Holy crap I got a lot of replies fast-I'll try to reply to everyone's, even if I can't get to it right away (also, sorry about the dead horse, when I looked up talent in the search engine I didn't find any specific threads. My bad :C)

@ShroudStar: I think that's what I was trying to get at. I guess my main frustration is that people are so unaware of how much work actually goes into it...Then again I'm sure that a professional sports player has to deal with people not realizing how much training he has to do, or a doctor with people forgetting all the years of medical school you have to work through.

@Farvus: That explains so much! Everything is perfectly clear now! :D

@Grief: That quote was perfect, and I am totally saving it. Thank you :)

@Abacus: I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. While I can't help but be a bit miffed, I really should work on my attitude and learn to just accept a compliment.

@Heartbeat: how did I not find that? Thanks a ton for the link, hopefully I won't make the same mistake twice...

Sorry for skipping over so many replies, I promise to get back to this ASAP- Thanks to everyone for all the insight!

[IIKII]

question.

How the HELL would you know if that someone is really talented or just really hardworking? Can you see through their mind? Are you God?

It's just like what shakespeare said, "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so"

[Chris Saksida]

Natural artistic talent is the natural willingness to work your ass off to create, get better and enjoy the process, the people that don`t have that willingness doesn`t have talent.

For me, Talent doesn`t mean having more "skill" or creating "effortless" or having more imagination, natural talent is a natural PASSION and LOVE for artistic creation.

[Bruce Pluto]

Goatygoat,

Talent may be something used to convey the message that someone has acquired a skill at learning in the subject of their own interest.

Example: someone may be known as a talented auto mechanic. I myself have no talent when it comes to cars. I put the key into the ignition and if it cranks “wonderful” if it doesn’t “Oh poop”. My older son can listen to a vehicle and tell if there’s a problem or not, he has that talent, that skill, that interest. But it has been something only been gained after years of listening and working on automobiles. So if someone calls him “talented” he just smiles.

Don’t be offended by your friend’s change in their use of description in your artwork. Relish it and understand that you’re reaching a level of improvement that is saying that you are advancing. That your skill and understanding of what you’re doing is getting ”way better”. That is a good thing.

Bruce

[mugenTaichou]

Yeah, I completely understand you, Nathan xD.

Talent is just a little ember. It's up to you how hard will you blow in it to make a big and hot fire.

[Black Spot]

I was one of those people labelled ‘talented’ when I was younger, but I wasted it because life wasn’t handed to me on a plate and I gave up. I was ‘talented’ because I drew all the time then – I think that means I worked on it but never considered it work. Now I’m back, it’s not so easy anymore.

[worxe]

talent is something everybody seems to worry too much about, time is better spent doing something practical now than worrying about a farce that spawns a conundrum of thoughts that lead into the 'what if' and 'could be' which rarely produces any desirable results.

for the people who don't understand - but praise, forgive them, they simply don't know how to compliment you in the best way, but try regardless because they're sincere about it.

[Aaron Death]

I don't agree with all that's been said here.

first i need to say that i believe that in order to just draw, you need to learn and practice , its an acquired skill but after you practice and learn to draw that doesn't mean your art has quality, in regarding to mentioning mozart and the likes.
talent in the visual arts as i see it is a kind of a natural "over" sensitivity one has to the aesthetics of nature, to the inner quality of the outer appearance of it (nature). it can be the gesture of the figure, the individuality of the appearance of an object, creature, human face/body anatomy etc. it is the part that comes naturally to the artist, the part the "feels"
the working hard part is related mainly to the craftsmenship and also to the communication of the visual from whats in your head to paper/others like language.
now i know, you can say that craftsmenship, is a talent too and so is communicating skills, yet these can be applied on their own to other areas like advertising (communication) or goldsmith (craftsmenship) for example
plus these can be aquired. i doubt that sensitivity i'm talking about can be aquired the same as the others mentioned above, i might be wrong but i imagine that if you take 1000 people and train them in the visual arts, all the same and they all practice hard for let's say 4 years, only some will get very good results and from these some, only a few will get amazing stuff , those are the talented ones.

hope to read your thoughts of this......

I agree with you. I think talent is not entirely replaceable with hard work. That is, hard work alone can not make someone like Michelangelo. Some of us are just born with that intensity. They produce works that are truly really amazing.

So my point is, everyone can become a good artist if they work hard. But only talented ones can become great masters.

Anyway, I don't think I have to become a great master though.

[Line]

Talent, I think, is a weird thing because it manifests itself in different ways. For most, it might be the tenacity to keep at it and decide to become artists. How many people do you know, who drew well enough at 14 with no training but considered it just a passtime and when on to be lawyers, or garbagemen? To a few it might also be the added capacity to learn fast and apply fast, or to be innovative. To yet less it might be the special sensitivity to see things in unique ways.

In the end tho, I feel that talent is a point of view, what appeals more to the masses' sense of aesthetics. For instance, disney's art style is liked by many people, for some it may suck, bit if you can pull it off, for the majority you are 'talented'.

The skill part is the most important one I think. I am having trouble in my life art class keeping the discipline (I am looking for a new job and things aren't peachy in my life so my art and the amount of time I spend at class drawing greek heads suffers), yet, when I am in the mood, I can produce a piece (especially from a live model) that is 'better' (as judged again, from the teachers and the class) than art by other people who practically live in the atelier and produce alot more work than me. Yet, I have not improved in confidence, speed and consistency of quality (I work better under a dealine!), because I haven't disciplined myself. Everyone considers me 'talented' yet all I have that is different, is the understanding, I can just 'get it' faster, but so what? I still need to spend more time to improve don't I? Where is the 'talent' in that?

What I am getting at is that the word 'talent', is something that may or may not apply to a large number of properties. One may need to have a specific proportion of said properties to be able to become an artist, lacking in one of these means you need to practice more, having more of them naturally, means you can achieve your goals faster/better. But in the end, and this is the bad thing, talent can and may very well be a bad thing. When people tell you that you are talented, you feel like you are king of the hill, and you turn into a slacker (trust me I know), and that is the worst thing for an aspiring artist.

So, erase the damn word from your dictionary and add the word 'Workforce' instead, maybe that way we'll be rid of all those artists that settle making a piece for $20 and end up demolishing the industry for the rest of us.