damjan gets mentored in concept art

[DAMJAN]

Here it is. Once again, thanks on your time.

[jason01]

sure - let's start with a new project and you can slip stuff you're working on into the thread for critique as well - if that's ok with you.

to start off, you decide the perameters. What kind of a game do you want it to be? dark? like halo? like assassin's creed? like doom? or more like WoW? - this will determine a lot. - just people? creatures, too? aliens? mutant crazy things? space age? goth? steam punk? period costumes? is it on earth? other planets? cities? deserts? interiors? underground? variety?

so - first thing to do - is get reference - post a few pics of the mood, other games, inspiration, the feel you're going after. This will tell me what you're looking for and solidify it in you mind.

[DAMJAN]

I want the game to be dark, mature audience, RPG Action. I want the mix of The Witcher with sci-fi. I want something like that movie Outlander, where aliens come and attack more primitive civilization. Aliens use advanced tech to fight while the residents of that planet use sorcery, magic, swords, etc. Now the good guys not only have to worry about ghouls, dragons, etc. but also aliens who came there to destroy everything.

http://www.jucaushii.ro/images/upload/articles/witcher.jpg
http://www.webwitcher.de/wallpapers/walli_witcher1024_gold.jpg
http://www.fileshack.com/images/finclude/images/042606_witcher.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/156/915112_20070606_screen001.jpg
http://metavideogame.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/the_witcher_screenshot2.jpg
http://heronarmoury.co.uk/swords/m/main/type-a.jpg
http://www.ece.northwestern.edu/~pred/Images/noble-medieval.gif
http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/medieval-armour/medieval-armour-gladius.jpg
http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/medieval-armors/horse-armor.jpg
http://handicraft.indiamart.com/gifs/armour-new.jpg
http://www.rookscastle.com/props/anime/G_CX_01.jpg
http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FR1/5YG5/FEAHE7B1/FR15YG5FEAHE7B1.MEDIUM.jpg
http://www.conceptart.org/artist/andrew-jones/images/MP2_BONUS/space_pirate.jpg
http://www.cnc-i.net/files/media/tiberium_wars/concept_art/mobile_alien_unit_2.jpg
http://www.igorstshirts.com/blog/conceptrobots/MS3_Vindicator.jpg
http://gadgets.boingboing.net/gimages/sulaco.jpg
http://www.pierrevanderpol.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/dle01_coverlg.jpg
http://www.imaginefx.com/02287754331824266555/main.png?a=0&maxh=400
http://conceptartworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/thierry_doizon_post11.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2353/2064633497_53d42d8a65.jpg?v=0

[DAMJAN]

Sorry don't know how only one image showed, perhaps too many images for one window?

[jason01]

Nice! That covers a lot of ground - fantasy, sci-fi . . . people, robots, aliens, monsters. It's good that you have an idea of the basic story components and the look you want to go for. so now . . get sketchin'. do:

a. 5 sketches of environments,


b. 5 sketches of different characters - keep things loose at this stage - not a lot of detail, but go for pose (tells a lot about a character) and big shapes. it's less painful to make changes if you haven't put a lot of time into it.
and


c. 5 scenes (keep this real loose - little more than a thumbnail - right now you want to feel out your game - you want to get a sense of action or establish a mood. Aliens landing, people fighting, etc.)

can't wait to see what you do.

[DAMJAN]

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/5scenes-thumbnails.jpg

This is what I got for now. I'll post the rest as soon as i get some ideas.

[DAMJAN]

Ooops, spelling error in first thumbnail.

[jason01]

good start. looks like you have a lot of ideas - keep sketching these things out. in a while we'll take a few of these concepts, rework them, make strong compositions, and make them into illustrations to promote the game.

right now the flow of ideas is most important

keep it up. I look forward to your characters and environments

[DAMJAN]

Here are my characters. I feel like I could do more of these because I don't think I've shown everyone that would be involved. Maybe we can do that later on?
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/5characters-thumbnails.jpg

[jason01]

more? sure!

but first let me say - the leader of the ghouls is sweet. - the way it's turning toward us says a lot. that's a good gesture.

if you want to do more, do as many as you can come up with - but for now, do 5 variations of each of those characters. keep it about as detailed as you have these last 5. What you're looking for is the strongest silhouette, the best pose - the essence of the character.

after that - (in a week or so, probably) we'll get a line up - and get them working together in the same world - after that, we'll flesh the ones in the lineup out. after that pick one and do a turn around.

if you draw them at 3/4 (ish) that tells more info about their shape.

check these out
http://ravensoftart.blogspot.com/
http://massiveblack.com/mbNew/html/concept1.shtml
http://creatureartists.blogspot.com/
http://www.fengzhudesign.com/gallery.html
http://joshuathejames.blogspot.com/
http://www.danmilligan.com/filmandgame/
http://benmauro.blogspot.com/

hopefully that's not too much at one time.

[DAMJAN]

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/5characters-thumbnails2.jpg

[jason01]

good job. These are strong designs. I like how you've given options for warrior to wizard. Also - good light and darks, these are rendered perfectly for this stage.

A. this guy is really solid. he could go one of two ways, as I see it - kind of sneaky (the legs close together, the shoulder hunch look) or really strong - the general pose - choose one and go with it - if strong - bigger shoulders, pushed out chest, wider stance. I like the armor so far, it's interesting - and if it were assymetrical it would be even more interesting.

B. sweet knee/shin armor. sweet pose, a lot of action - and if it were from a different angle we could see more of the chest/front. unless we're going to be viewing this guy in the game from the side most of the time, keep this pose for the basis of an action shot. - the back may be a bit big.

C. this guy is just sweet.

D. I like this guy too - hands a tad funky - but that's easily fixed

E. I like this concept - armored-wizard-spikey-guy - but the line of action could be stronger. and that right foot is more becoming of a woman (nothing wrong with this being a girl - just need to be pushed) than a warrior. so - stronger stance, flying or something - it's a really good angle, though.


anyway - those are my two cents - take 'em or leave 'em. You're doing well - keep it up. I'm looking forward to the next set.

[DAMJAN]

Could you help me out and show me how to make his chest stick out more? Thanks.

[jason01]

feel it. breath in, fill your lungs, arch your back, a bit, get a superman pose going on. you'll feel your chest out, our shoulders up, and back.

feeling it in your body is helpful for me to draw it. your just need to translate what's going on to the page (and exagerate for interest)

here are some pictures

http://ultra.gamer.free.fr/wallpaper/cinema/superman.jpg
http://media.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2006/jun/metropolis/statue200.jpg

you'll notice in the following picture - they don't quite get it because they don't puff out - they're strong - but they don't look heroic
http://www.fitnessmadesimple.com/images/posedown/superman_small.jpg

here- you see Spawn with chest out, shoulders back, wide stance - he owns the page
http://ui18.gamespot.com/1105/shspawn_2.jpg

here's a video on youtube that shows what I'm talking about in the first 30 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsZHkotZGZE&feature=related

hope that was helpful

[DAMJAN]

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/5characters-thumbnails3.jpg

[DAMJAN]

I can't really get his chest to pop out. If I drew him without a shirt where his chest and muscles would show then I could. But with the armor on I can't.

[jason01]

it can be a tricky thing to get the pose right.

guy a.
it helps (esp. if the chest is covered, like this) if the torso it turned a bit - so not as straight on. and I moved the hips out and the left shoulder (arm) out.

you had a strong presence already, I just widened his hips, pushed on out a little, turned his torso, moved his left arm out a tad, and left the head alone - so where he was just being generally imposing, now he's turned and focusing on the viewer - now you're in trouble. I like it.

b.
this guy, I arched his back and pulled his neck back and head down, now it looks like he's about to do something (don't know if this is what you wanted - but the chest it out)

hope that helps - if you need more specific break down maybe I could do a step by step thing and post it

let me know

[DAMJAN]

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/ghoul-character-thumbnails.jpg

Before I do final render of the general, here are my sketches for the ghoul.
I did some research and it says that ghouls can shift shapes and turn into different scavenger animals especially hyenas. So, I played around with that idea.
A. Has a human skull with hyena's ears and hair on head and back. Arms and legs are also hairy. Human rib cage is showing and some spine to about hips then it blends with short hair on the legs. Legs also have spots on the legs just like hyena. It walks like a zombie.

B. With this one, I wasn't really looking for any particular creature but combination of few. Hyena, zombie, creature. It moves by hopping the way monkeys do and flopping it's arms like a bird.

C. Upper body is a mixture of a human and a hyena with hyena face, hair, etc. From right below the chest u can see the human rib cage, spine and hip bones. Legs are covered with skin, muscles, etc. just like chest and arms. Left foot has human skeleton showing.

D. This creature has entire body more masculine then others and covered in longer hair. However, the head is a skull of hyena. When I first drew this, it reminded me so much of that creature from Hell Boy 1. I guess they used hyena skull to create the face of the creature. To change this, I've added hyena shaped ears but more pointy at the top.

E. Last one I wanted to look more like zombie, human before it turn into one of the creatures a-d. As you can see it has hyena's hair, ears and a nose but it's missing it's human jaw. Dots on it's body indicate that it shift changes into hyena. Also, hairy forearms, and legs indicate hyena like qualities. This person has a shackle on it's left arm with broken chain to indicate that this person was once a slave and now came back as a ghoul to get a revenge. I couldn't find any good reference of a zombie walk, stance so I'm not much happy with the pose.

[Ghosd]

Hi there, cheers for the reply damjan, really liking your drawings so far, Jason Would it be possible to follow? And if so is this just photoshop or can I use pencil aswell?
cheers

[DAMJAN]

No problem, I don't see that it would be a problem for u to use pencil. We'll see what Jason has to say.

[jason01]

Damjan,

on your ghouls - the poses are really strong and the sketches communicate what the creature is clearly.

I also appreciate your explanations. Thank you.

a-d look active menacing and sneaky. e looks pathetic and sad - he looks like a poor guy with big ears, pleading eyes, reaching arm and cerebral palsy. I just feel bad for him. But well done, if that's what you're going for. as for zombie walks - I had this problem a month ago, or so, and I looked up "zombie walk" on google - found a few things - but it is hard because you have to convey a glazed eye, out of control sleep walk kind of thing - which most film makers have turned into a "walk like you have cerebral palsy - we'll have you eating brains - no one will question it."

but - good job on this set - once you do all the sets, we'll narrow down which to go with as individuals

keep up the good work

[DAMJAN]

Is this better?
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/generalcharacter.jpg

[jason01]

yeah - looks much stronger. The important thing is that you can see it. . . . . can you see it?

if you don't like something you should change it, not because I tell you it needs changing - I'll give you a hand if you can't quite figure out how to change it - and it looks like you're getting a hang of it.

good job.

keep up the good work.

[DAMJAN]

This is my first time actually doing aliens/robots.
Here are the alien/robot scouts. Their purpose is to find any living thing and then inform their leader of their location.

First alien, uses his eyes/antennas to detect presence of their enemy.
it has shoulder amour as well as for its feet. It hops around like a cricket.
Even this creature is not meant to fight, it has 2 sharp claws on each hand to wound its enemy enough to escape.

Second, uses advanced alien technology goggles to search the premise. It can see in day or night. It records living things, and sends the image to its mother ship to inform the troops.

Third, hops around like a frog and it has 2 heads, one is to see during day and other to see during night. It also uses its hands that are shaped like suction cups where human fists begin to place them on the ground and hear any movement. By this movement they can precisely tell the shape, size, or origin without even seeing its target.

Fourth, is a small robot, that can transform into shapes, to make itself stealth so listen and record without being interrupted. Above image shows the robot with wooden barrel features.

Fifth, this robot is most advanced of these scouts. It carries a powerful satellite on its back as well on its each arm. The one on the back does not have the full shape but half (just to make it look more advanced then the one we humans use).

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/alienscouts-concept.jpg

[jason01]

for the cricket thing - I'd love to see this in 3/4 view - get an idea of how long it is.

the other ones are all really dynamic and have good postures. good job.

the second one has a funky claw hand? I'm not too clear if it's a claw or a drill - but I like his smile and the wires

as far as alien designs - the 2 headed thingy communicates the best as an alien.

the barrel robot is hilarious.


keep up the good work.

[DAMJAN]

Second one has something like a claw/fingernail that looks sharp and triangle like.

[DAMJAN]

Jason, sorry I haven't posted anything yet. I've been busy but tomorrow I'll have something to show u.

[DAMJAN]

Here it is. Alien leader. Since aliens have advanced technology I wanted to combine robotics with aliens.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/alienlord.jpg

I've also added 2 humans next to two figures to show the size of the alien. Other 3 are slightly taller then a human but have superhuman strength.

[jason01]

that's a good idea to put a person in as a reference to know how big the alien is - just make them all relative to that - that saves you any explaining. - plus it makes those big guys look more impressive.

A. nice "bring it on" pose

B. turn at an angle so we can see how long the neck is and how long the torso is. also - avoid cliches like gun for arm. like us, technology enhances our body and abilities, doesn't replace it. I like the turtle feel of this guy.

C. is your strongest pose. It's a really sweet pose. the right arm will probably be a little more out and the chest a bit twisted toward us. he's looking very "Predator" like but I know you can fix that. good job on the shiney armor.

D. weird snake guy - that's a funky idea. the middle scale stripe will probably run under him, on the ground - check snakes for reference.

E. the guys left leg looks bigger than right leg. Nice lizard idea, though.

keep it up.

[Aaron Death]

Just to say nice work here. This thread is so inspiring. I really like your ideas.

[DAMJAN]

Thanks man, I really appreciate that.

[DAMJAN]

Ok, here is the side view of the first alien so u can see his length.
Under new is the same guy with his chest turned more towards us and then old so u can compare. Help me change him so he doesn't look like predator, what areas remind u of predator? I've fixed the bottom part of the snake alien, looks better? Comment about that lizard alien, the reason his one leg looks bigger then the other is because i was going for foreshortening, maybe a little extreme? I'm still not good with foreshortening. Need help there.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/alienlord2.jpg

[jason01]

D - ok - so after looking at the predator - http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/avp-12-scar-predator.jpg - I realized yours doesn't look THAT much like it. but it still reminds me of it. I think it's mostly the non-armoured thighs (even though the predator has partially armoured thighs. let's be honest - this is a pretty important part of the body -and pretty easy to damage - it's the area that gets closest to the enimy as he approaches. (that and the knee) - it's your call - but I think it needs something - especially with how heavily armoured his lower legs look.

I gotta say - with the chest toward us more, it looks much more natural. good job.

the snake now looks better - but I am thinking it's a little mermaid like - human torso, snake below. I'm sure you can do a better transition. http://store.cgsociety.org/store/assets/62-pic01.jpg - here's a mermaid that iain mccaig did - it still looks like a mermaid - but it's more cohesive than disney's version.

as for the guy on the far left. it looks creepy. the limbs don't look like they go with the torso/head - but that may be part of the creepiness. try bringing some of the back armour onto the upper thighs and play around with the length of the stinger things.

keep it up. you're improving. I'm looking forward to seeing how you take these to the next level.

[DAMJAN]

Ok, For the thighs, Ive added chrome plates on front of the thighs and rest is also the armor but black and less shiny. I left the chrome plates almost flat because I felt like it would balance out all the complexity that's going on with the rest of the armor. That's why I didn't add anything in the first place so it would balance the left arm. When it comes to the far left alien, I like the fact that it's limbs make him look creepy. I'll work more on his thighs and sting. And the snake guy, I'll try ur advice.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/alienwarlord.jpg

[DAMJAN]

What do you think of this?
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/alienwarlord2.jpg

[DAMJAN]

I didn't like the stings on the back, nor I liked the face of this alien. Face just looked weak and so did stings on the back. Now I've combined dinosaur type scales? on the back and somewhat of a face. Now it looks more sharp, aggressive.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/alienwarlord3.jpg

[jason01]

nice -

for the chrome guy - the leg armour really ties the whole thing together. now there's not a gap - my eye flows over the whole piece, he looks more solid, and stronger. the only thing you need to do now is take the speer out of his calf (that little thin line - easy fix)

the snake guy - I don't know about the leg things - that just looks weird - looks like you don't want to draw feet. maybe try a cobra comander type thing or something. I think higher (i.e. technologically advanced) lifeforms that have master intergalactic space travel need opposable thumbs - unless they're so high up there they're floating brains or they are lower aliens that are used by higher ones. - so maybe this guy's more of a beast that the aliens unleash on us so as not to have to get killed too much themselves. - I don't know - maybe you want to try keeping a lot of what you already have and just bring the one snake body all the way up to the chest. so - take out the torso and show it go up - have armor plating minimal as it would hinder some of his movements (snakes need that contact with the ground.

I like this last guy a lot better. instead of a chimera, this guy looks like his legs and arms belong to his body. good job.


so now - focus on the snake guy - make him as cohesive as you did the dino guy. where the whole things looks like it belongs to one animal. I look forward to seeing the result.

keep up the good work.

[DAMJAN]

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/alienwarlord4.jpg

[jason01]

nice. the snake seems to flow better now. how do you feel about it?

[DAMJAN]

It does, flows better with the head and body that's underneath the armor. What's next?

[jason01]

well - you should try vehicles - space ships and carts - or what ever the humans use. should be interesting.

[DAMJAN]

This is my first time doing vehicles, so I'll need help with these. So far I have 3 vehicles that aliens use.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x308/pitchbenda/alienvehicles.jpg

[DAMJAN]

First on the left was influenced by the look of a shrimp.

[jason01]

that first one really does look like a shrimp. it's nice because it's a break from so many standard spaceships. that being said - here are some useful links - good to see so many ideas at conceptships blog. And useful to see things drawn in persective at idsketching.com.

http://conceptships.blogspot.com/
http://www.idsketching.com/2009/02/22/video-tutorial-scooter-sketch/
http://www.idsketching.com/2009/02/09/video-pinewood-derby-toy-car-sketch-demo/

a lot of times it's easier to start out working on silhouette from a straight side view - work that out and then turn it for a perspective shot. but you should draw at least ten side views and then decide which ones you want to go with. think about things like - how far do these go? are these short distance or long haul mother ships? who uses these? are the aggressors? and how do you make that clear with the design? write out what these are for, who the aliens are that use them and that should help in the design process.

[DAMJAN]

Thank, those links are awesome

[DAMJAN]

Hey Jason, I have an important question to ask. I'm helping these guys with concept art for a game. They want me to create an urban scene where they can turn it into 3d for a demo. Since I've never done this, which angle should I draw this in so it covers the most of it so that the 3d artist can render as much of it. Also, how can i get perfectly nice looking buildings since I don't have a steady hand to draw it nice without looking all crooked. If I drew it on a paper then I could use a ruler. Thanks man.

[jason01]

you'll probably want to draw it in isometric view. it's really easy, too (just looks kind of funky) - you just get an isometric grid (look one up) and follow the lines.

[DAMJAN]

I've been bussy lately, but hopefully I'll be able to come back to this really soon.

[DAMJAN]

Hello Jason, how are you? It's been a long time. Time for me to get back to work. I know I haven't finished what I've started but I would like to continue to work on the characters that I already have and fully develop them and put some color to it. Let me know what should I do next. Thanks.

[jason01]

environments.

http://mattgaser.wordpress.com/
http://alfredllupia.blogspot.com/
http://paullasaine.blogspot.com/

draw up some environments - where this takes place. do some sketches and we'll go from there

[DAMJAN]

Thanks, you always have nice web sites for reference.

[DAMJAN]

Here are 4 thumbnails of fantasy environments for where the people with magic might live. It's really hard for me to get a good and interesting composition.

[DAMJAN]

I forgot to mention, white marks represent buildings

[jason01]

Nice. These look pretty good.

you might want to avoid putting things in the corners (the light in the upper left corner on two of these) - it creates an arrow that points off the page. so if you need it - move it over one way or the other. (is that two moons or a lens flare?)

to create more depth - add something in the foreground (plants, rocks, people, buildings, anything, really - as long as it makes sense for the environment.)

I like the movement of the water and the angle of the bottom one.

on the one on the left - the main mass of the building and each tier of the waterfall are about the same height. to add visual interest change it up. - also try one that isn't directly front view (so we can see how far from the falls the buildings are and how far out the falls go, etc.)

you're doing good - keep it up.

[DAMJAN]

Yes those are two moons, planets. I like the bottom one with waterfall and water movement the most. U think I should keep on working on that one? Go to a larger image? If so, what size of the canvas do you recommend? Thanks.

[jason01]

2350 x 1000 pixels - that's the size Ryan Church works at - and if it's good enough for him - it's good enough for me

[DAMJAN]

Here is what I got so far. Painting mountains so hard and I'm not really liking the outcome.

[jason01]

parts of it look really good. keep going back and looking at reference to fine tune it. and remember to make things in the foreground darker and things in the background lighter and more similar in value

right now it's at a Dutch angle - dynamic. but the waterfall is almost in the center - calm - it would help if you moved the waterfall/water over a few inches to the left. - or straightened the picture out. you want to save dynamic angles for dynamic scenes.

keep it up