Color version of drawing by MC Escher

[JVK]

This was done with photoshop only, no illustrator and NO 3d programs.

It needs a lot of work. I am retexturing the building in sandstone.

If anyone has advice/suggestions, I would like to hear them.

[JVK]

And here it is:

http://greenhorizon.homestead.com/files/bigdraft.jpg

[Pencil Soldier]

No offense, but great way to butcher a good work of art.

[JVK]

:rolleyes:

Care to elaborate?

[Pencil Soldier]

Well, the orginal was a great work by Esceher. This looks like a 5 minute color job.

[JVK]

As I have said, it needs a lot of work.

Save your trash talk for the final product.

[F3nix]

Nice use of Photoshop Filters. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't clone the similar elements, I have distinct faith in you that you drew every single one in DETAIL.

No 3d? Coulda fooled me! Kudos to you! But, for something that looks straight out of bryce, there seems to be no depth. Work on that. Sandstone? Lets see, cuz rght now it looks like sloppy concrete. I understand it's a work in progress... so... progress in your work :D

No depth. No depth.

The objects dont relate to one another in size. Esecher's was an awesome piece to gawk at, keep workin on this piece, right now, it pays no homage, it does look like a paintover.

No Depth. No Depth.

[Pencil Soldier]

*Saving trash talk*


Waiting.....

[JVK]

Considering this is the first thing of this type I have done, give me a break.

What you see there is a pretty rough draft.
The final product will look eons better.

[silentbrain]

woah I'm still logged in?

okay I will try for a crit, although I am drunk.

if you are not done with the stars, you might make them more random near the top of the right cieling dome, see how they are almost mirroring the contour of it's edge.

if you are not done with the bg please fade them down, because all that noise is competing with the main object, the structure. In fact, there's quite a lot of texture everywhere, it's very noisy.

ok I gotta pee bbl

[JVK]

You are the first people to really criticize it in any useful way.

I swear, everyone I ask is useless.

Most are like "whoaaa that's awesome" because they don't know shit about art so it was IMPOSSIBLE to get any insight on what I was doing right/wrong.

Things to expect in next draft:

Less "photoshop" looking textures on building and background.

Better shading contrast especially in the building.

Those big blobs of dark green which are supposed to be forests will be replaced with actual trees.

The stars will be put in BEFORE I flatten the image (yes they were an afterthought. bite me)

The background terrain will lose the glossy plastic look.

And probably other things too, so all of you who are getting in a tizzy, keep your panties on and I'll deliver something that isn't as rough looking.

[Pencil Soldier]

It isnt so much rough as pointless.

[Pencil Soldier]

I wouldn't accept any shit either, which is why i don't like this 'drawing'.

*looks up*

Ok that was a bad one.

What i mean is, thers no point to soemthign such as this. You dont get any respect form ripping off of a Master's work, and you dont learn anything as an artist. I would seuggest learning basic art princibles such as value, line, composition, perspective and the like, then doing a Master STUDY, where you actuly try to learn how they did soemthing and so better your own skills.

[JVK]

I probably needed to hear that eventually.

It is true what you say.

I am new to art sort of.
Before this I drew strictly technical things, and I know almost nothing of values and color and shit, lots of left-brained stuff.

So I got this idea in my head when I saw a picture of Belvedere and went with it.
At this point I should just finish it and start working on original things.

It is a futile battle.

[fukifino]

Well, JVK, I have to say you have a good attitude about this. I admit I thought you were another one of those random "look at me I'm so leet with the filter" people and even thought (and still do to some extent) what you were doing here was pointless.

That having been said, your responses show a willingness to learn and improve and that's good. Don't be discouraged. Listen to the advice of the users on this board. There are some great artists here and if you take heed of their words you're bound to improve.

But I really do reccomend scrapping this idea. It will only invite bad attitudes and serve to draw peoples attention away from what you're trying to improve on.

Good luck! :)

[Petra]

Hey JVK,

Like others have said, it's good to see you keep a good attitude about wanting to improve.

If you're currently in a state of wanting to learn color and values and aren't sure what to work on, or with, check out this thread (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11580) over in the sketches forum. Not only are there some great pieces for you to practice on, but you can look at how other artists have approached the image, and the color schemes they chose to work with.

Good luck and keep plugging at it!

(and keep away from the filters!) ;)

- Petra -

[JVK]

In all fairness to me, I only used the blur filter... that's it.

And the only bevels used were in the prison bars but I cut the edges off them to hide it.

This was just a draft to see what my texture-less shape model would look like if colored in.

Believe me, I HATE those Photoshop hacks who think they are graphic designers because they know how to use "Lens Flare" and "Bevel and Emboss".

[JVK]

The main point of this thing was to get better at techniques in art and it's proven helpful so far but if any of you could help on the following things, I'd appreciate it:

1: Making a convincing rock texture for the building.

2: Making that river look more realistic.

Those are priorities right now.

[soul8o8]

..i think you got the perspective wrong! the 2nd floor have accedentily been rotated 90 degrees!! oops! lucky i saw that one! just saved you hours of work later!













;)

[John Farson]

yes. this is bad.

sorry man. i am a firm believer that a child could pull this off.

its just too simple. i can understand coloring an otherwise colorless piece (as long as you give proper credit where credit is due), but put some style in it. don't just fill in lines.

kee-rhist!

[Adam]

To JVK: Here are some things I can see that I think you should work on:

Lighting - Nothing in your scene seems to cast any shadows. Use a large brush or the lasso tool to rough in areas that should be in shadow, then work from there. It will go a long way toward making this piece more interesting, more in-depth, and simply better.

The colors and materials seem synthetic/procedural. Before you apply details, make sure you have your basic shapes and volumes established. Choose interesting materials - research castles and persian palaces - use interesting colors beyond solid red, solid green, and solid blue.

Much of your background lacks depth. Remember that landscape features that are far away are greatly affected by the density of the atmosphere. Mountains that are like WAY away from you will be foggy, and hardly visible.

Something to stress again, be wary of those photoshop filters. The tell-tale white bursts on the edges of your clouds in the background are a dead giveaway. Filters are most useful when they are subtle; subtle changes in focus or color, for example. In general, I think it is dangerous to use them as a shortcut for creating major elements of your picture. Ethically, it's kind of like cheating, but more than that, it just doesn't look as good. There are a lot of good cloud tutorials and landscape tutorials out there!

Watch the sharpness of your features. Stone and concrete rarely retain razor sharp edges, they erode very quickly.

In conclusion, pick a light source and add some realistic shadows, choose more neutral colors, and step AWAY from that filters button!

To the rest of you: I think everyone would appreciate it if you were helpful and provided guidance instead of tacking on whatever petty, useless remark that you think is necessary. Everybody starts somewhere; I know that I wouldn't have stuck around this great community if my first post was regarded (albeit rightfully) loudly and vocally as total shit. My first post WAS bad, but I received helpful comments that began to set me on the right track.

In conclusion, don't be dicks. You can tell him its bad, but just saying "hey that part sucks" is worth dick-all.

[JVK]

All items taken into account.

I'd already started work on smoothing out those corners.
The final result will see the building with several imperfections in the stone, and it will be much more convincing.

The missing depth in the building is being worked on, including missing shadows.

Those blatantly motion-blurred hills are already taken care of and much prettier, I dare say.

I am toying around with a way to make the background fade out as it gets further off.

Those horrid blobs of green which I tacked on to delineate where the forests would be are being replaced with individually added trees (fine, so I started cheating and adding them in clusters). It really looks pretty good for a first try.

[AnarchyAo2]

Man, this is crazy. Its like i'm in the fucking twilight zone. A guy comes and posts his art to share with everyone. Hes nice enough to do that! Then, 3/4 of the people reply chewing him out because he wants to make a copy of the masters. I'm sorry, but last time I checked, this forum was for artists to support other artists. Wheither it be crits and comments on a piece, or a problem in real life. Now its turned into a fucking boxing ring!

And Pencil Soldier seems to think that you can't copy the masters because your not as skilled as them. Well, many of the masters grew up copying their favorite artists. Like Chuck Close! He copied the master's work and hes considered a master. So don't give people your bullshit opinions.
Also, I don't mean to keep making an example of you, but your the epitome of the jerks on this forum.


Okay, now to your crits.

I don't think theres enough constrast in the picture. I think it needs more shadows.

The mountains and the stone building look to much alike so they seem to mesh.

And I think your overall problem is that everything is too "crisp". If you get what i"m saying.

[Turbosity]

Well said, Anarchy. The tone of some of the criticisms on this board were starting to bother me. I understand that people are wary of "hacks" coming to the board, but you need to give newcomers the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming they think they're the sh*t because they can do filters.

Seems like helping people along instead of pissing them off would be a lot more productive.

JVK: I think its a cool idea, lets see some of the updated progress

[mtomczek]

Ok, as newly appointed moderator of this section, I am going to point some stuff out to JVK. This forum is heavily conceptart based, focused around pre-production work for film, games, print, etc etc. So the crowd can be harsh, but its for good reasons, concept artists tend to be very open honest people when it comes to art, its like a giant family. But i will tell you that i agree with the fact that it is taking a perfectly good picture, and spoiling it. I would really push it alot farther before posting it, cause right now its lacking heavily. It looks like cheesy photoshop art. Sorry mate, but thats how it is, keep it up, but remember even though the shit can fly here, its there to help you improve, in some odd way.

[AnarchyAo2]

mtomczek, other people might think that your opinions are more valid then others just because your moderator but I don't fall for that. You coming out and saying "as newly appointed moderator..." tells me that your opinion is weak and you can't really back it up. Because, if you have to use your status or authority to get people to listen to you, means that they probably wouldn't hear you out if you weren't moderator.

Also, I really don't see how he is spoiling the picture. He isn't painting ontop the original! Its his own personal copy, and he isn't taking credit for the concept. So, whats really the problem?

" remember even though the shit can fly here, its there to help you improve, in some odd way."

So, your telling me that this post:

"yes. this is bad.

sorry man. i am a firm believer that a child could pull this off.

ts just too simple. i can understand coloring an otherwise colorless piece (as long as you give proper credit where credit is due), but put some style in it. don't just fill in lines."


Wouldn't have been just as effective and constructive if he hadn't just said:

"its just too simple. i can understand coloring an otherwise colorless piece (as long as you give proper credit where credit is due), but put some style in it. don't just fill in lines."



:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[mtomczek]

Me coming out and saying "newly appointed moderator" was to say that I am here to help, and to lay down some guidelines as to how people react around here. I am not using it as "hey look at me I have authority here" I have been moderator here for the DSG for over a year now, and the admins saw fit to have me mod this too. I am not bringing him down, what i am saying is not to get discouraged, to work harder, and to get ready for a barrage from the members of this board. Thats all. They can be quiet harsh when it comes to things. So be prepared is all I am saying.


"You coming out and saying "as newly appointed moderator..." tells me that your opinion is weak and you can't really back it up. Because, if you have to use your status or authority to get people to listen to you, means that they probably wouldn't hear you out if you weren't moderator."

As far as that goes, I think you really misread that. They appointed me on Thursday, so I am saying that I am here now, and this is how things can be on this board. Sorry you feel that way, but in all honesty I think I can easily back my opinions up.

and the end part "remember the shit can fly here, its there to help though, in some odd way" is saying that it can get rough, people will shit on your art, "shit will fly" but in some ways its there to help, even if it seems harsh, cruel, or way too tough. This isnt an ass-patting community, we are here to improve, not to tell each other how nice the flowers are all the time. So it can get rough. But thats how it goes, having been in art school for 5 years now, you realize that you arent going to get praise for even what you feel is your best work, it toughens you up.

[AnarchyAo2]

yeah sorry about the first part of my post. It was totally out of line. But, i still stand by the 2nd part. Some people might speak the truth when they say that some people's work is shit, but that really doesn't tell you whats wrong with your art other than that person doesn't like it. Yeah, I know this isn't a ass-patting forum but there are better ways to state things other then degrading people.

[Ian Mack]

These people are being no less critical of your work than you should be yourself.

As soon as you like your art, it won't improve.. na'mean ?

and hey, where's the update! :) The depth comment is the most important one to listen to in my opinion. That will really help this piece come alive.

[Pencil Soldier]

Well said, Anarchy. The tone of some of the criticisms on this board were starting to bother me.

I agree. My posts sound very harsh and angry becuase I was angry. Ive been an Escher fan sicne age 8 and it kinda ticked me off. But when he went off on me i got even madder. I then realized that i was out of line, and explaing what i meant was my way of apologizing. I think JVK got it, but in case he didnt (if hes even looking at this thread anymore), i say right here that i apologize.

[Forge]

" we are the world, we are the children, we are the world to make a better day so let's start giving..."
all goes well finally... CA is really a beautiful world

[brandy]

I actually kinda like what you're trying to do here, JVK, but I've got to say that I also thought that you were just drawing over the original picture.. There's a difference between drawing from a reference and flat out painting over a picture, so I think it'd be a good idea to try and draw it without drawing *over* it..

try to think about the scene, how it looks in 3d, and how the trick might be pulled off..
http://www.lipsons.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/escher/belvedere.html has an amusing lego-based explanation.. I've only recently realized that creating good work is more about being able to observe something well, rather than just drawing it.. your skills will come in handy after you've got that down, but keep watching first!