Registry Forum FAQ

[Jason Manley]

This is a place for you to make your very own thread, with all your works. When you upload images to conceptart.org directly, using the attachment manager, you are able to choose categories, sub-categories, genre, and media for your works. You also choose your searchable copyright information and are easily found on the new viewer with a click of a button. http://www.conceptart.org/search/index.php?cat=bestof&forumid=5

This registry forum is being added to the viewer as we speak. If you already have all your images up on conceptart.org, you will not need a thread here, unless you want all images in one place.

Here is the info on why...and what we are doing.

In an effort to give back and to begin to take on bigger challenges as a community, ConceptArt.Org has been quietly working to solve the pending Orphan Bill (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqBZd0cP5Yc for more information on what we are up against and what we desperately are creating solutions for).

This summer we helped send thousands of emails to the members of the US House and Senate to stop this bill. What did we get in return? Canned email form letters thanking us for sharing our views. The bill drafts went the House and Senate anyway. The artists, professionals, and creative organizations who were trying to protect artist rights were ignored by our government completely. Realizing that even a hundred thousand signatures wont stop the copyright bill, at least that is how it looks from here, I got to thinking what we have to do to solve the problems right here at home.

Artists having to pay to be in searchable registries is problem number one. I believe this will be left to the private companies based on my research into who is supporting this horrible bill and what businesses are opening up. I went in and checked the domain registry to search to see if people were buying the domains (registermyart.com, artregistry.com, etc..etc...) and every one I searched was gone. This was the red flag that began the real push to solve what we are dealing with. The corporate sharks are already preparing to feed it seems.

Since the business world reads the laws and tries to capitalize on the loopholes, it is obvious to me that this would happen. Money is already flowing that direction. My guess is the art registries will launch as soon as the law passes or shortly thereafter, unless some miracle happens. Smart buggers. Imagine the photographers who take five hundred images a day or more...ugh. Artists cannot pay for this service...at least those I know who produce quantities of work...and none should have to.

Anyway, that problem is now solved in low tech fashion here: http://www.conceptart.org/search/index.php?cat=bestof&forumid=5 ConceptArt.Org has created a search system for locating art and artists, essentially cutting off the paid registry industry before they can even get off the ground. Click the images and find the original thread. Click the artist name and contact them directly. This also keeps these readying companies from acting as middlemen, between the searcher and the artist who they wish to hire. There is no room for that in our business.

I designed and we rebuilt all our databases and set up conceptart.org servers to handle up to 200 terabytes of secure storage. This service is entirely free and is a gift to the community from ConceptArt.Org. It is also nice as you can now browse through the images on the site very quickly. What used to take a week, now takes hours. Released in this viewer are five hundred thousand images. More will be added shortly. When you post on the forums your images go in the copyright search registry we created. It is all automated for you. Just keep doing as you do and at least your work can be found. The watermark will be site wide, and contains the appropriate information. We are working to be sure the older images in the database are accurately marked and you can edit your own copyright info as well.

You can search best of (five star threads) for fun...or from each forum if you click the "forums images" text tab...there are a ton of ways to look for stuff. key wording is in progress. That is the final piece of the basic search tool.

The idea is to simply kick the entire start up registry industry in the nuts before it can even learn to stand up by taking action ourselves.

Anyway...just some thoughts...my vision for where this heads is deeper than this but it should at least help some, i hope. I spoke at length with others involved in putting up the fight for artists rights and there is agreement that we have solved two of the biggest issues.

1. That artists could have to pay for their works to be registered and protected in the US, and there is evidence supporting this.
2. That these companies would then act as middle men between prospective clients searching the databases by requiring the company or person searching to pay them for your information.

Obviously, these problems must not happen.

There are other problems being solved, as related to this bill and this is just a first step in the best defense is a good offense mentality we have here.

Happy New Year too!


Jason

[danlambert]

I think I understand what is going on, but I'm a little unclear as to how this new conceptart thing rectifies the situation. Does this service replace the need to pay and register drawings etc. with another company? I'm sorry if it's blindingly obvious but I'm very tired haha

[davi]

:yayca:

[CGMonkey]

I'm speechless. Awesome initiative.

[Jason Manley]

It potentially eliminates the need for us to register with commercial services seeking monetary gains (unless they name an approved registry in the bill..which I do not believe will happen). We have one of the largest databases of art on the net, and images posted here circulate around the world. We are simply doing what we can to protect them and the artists here. This makes searching all those images very easy. As said, we still have work to do...but CA is one of the places that one would search to find artists nowadays. The bill requires a diligent search and we now have that structure in place, should the bill pass.


I think I understand what is going on, but I'm a little unclear as to how this new conceptart thing rectifies the situation. Does this service replace the need to pay and register drawings etc. with another company? I'm sorry if it's blindingly obvious but I'm very tired haha

[Jason Snair]

I love this place! And I'm especially thankful for what you guys are trying to do.

[Nynthe]

This sounds amazing! All the effort you put in for the community, brilliant.

[arttorney]

This is what I thought you were doing and I am proud of you for doing it.

It effectively cuts the legs from under the draft definitions of an "orphan work" without turning the registration into a quid pro quo capitalist enterprise.

For you kids out there that don't understand my Latin: a work is only an "orphan" if it doesn't have a good home address. Jason has just made CA.org a good home address. Now you won't have to shop in the high rent district.

[Jason Rainville]

Quick question: would creating a thread in this section with a link to my sketchbook (which pretty much has every image I have in recent times) do any good/be more visible, or would my sketchbook thread be enough?

Awesome work by the way, makes me want to buy things to support the site even more :)

[alesoun]

Brilliant, Jason. They can't be orphan works unless there's no way of finding the copyright owner, and since that is now just a click or two away, there are no excuses. If people like the art, they should pay the artist (or at least ask permission).

There may still be time to beat the Orphan Bill; in fact, something like this just might take the wind out of their sails..... :)

[Nibras]

All the guy/ gals who helped at this.....
And Jason

Your amazing
Thank you

[petitemistress]

thank you Jason, thank you everyone at MB, and at CA. :yayca:
you guys are awesome!

[Asatira]

This is awesome, now that I get it. Definitely a good thing. Thanks so much. :sungod: :yayca:

[Sidharth Chaturvedi]

So that's what the big gift was! Really fantastic idea, thanks a ton to Jason and everyone who got it going.

[s.ketch]

The threads in the first post are 404'd. Don't know if they're being moved or what. Anyway, this is a fantastic idea and I can't thank everyone involved enough for providing this service.

[TheJester]

Mr Manley, you are the MAN, obviously

I'm sure that as long as there are people like you, companies like Massive Black and communities like Concept Art, concentrating in solidarity, cooperation and well, plain sharing, corporate profit won't take over the last of our breathing air!!!! Thank you so much for royally scr#$%ing the industry!!!!

(growls and raises fist in the air with rude anti-corporate hand signal)


Helluva new year present dude! Next year we 'll settle for cookies!

[Ayem]

Thankyou for this. :) It's amazing, really it is. I think the fact I can't find any words to say how happy I am for this best expresses my feelings.
The only words that come to mind are 'Those money-hungry bastards'.

[bat]

Excellent idea, thank you for implementing this.

[Texahol]

anyway you could explain this so more ...simple... people can understand this?

I'm having a little trouble connecting the dots here...

is this database basically a future 'go-to' place for the ones looking for the owner of works in question?

[Natzuur-JK]

The Orphan Works Act defines an "orphan work" as any copyrighted work whose author any infringer says he is unable to locate with what the infringer himself decides has been a "reasonably diligent search." In a radical departure from existing copyright law and business practice, the U.S. Copyright Office has proposed that Congress grant such infringers freedom to ignore the rights of the author and use the work for any purpose, including commercial usage. In the case of visual art, the word "author" means "artist."

Basicly by creating a very easy to use database for finding the artist, and one so large, there should be no excuse by anyone to say that they found a pic of any artist on here, and could not find the source... which makes it a lawful to use that work for... anything.

[Natzuur-JK]

Also, just as a suggestion to everyone, you should be putting at least your name on your works (should be doing it anyway), not that hard.

[DARAF]

Fight The Power!!!!! Long Live CA

[Samuel Gray]

Thank you conceptart and Jason for doing this. I really do appreciate the hard work and inspiration that flows through this place.

[Hexokinase]

The threads in the first post are 404'd. Don't know if they're being moved or what.

They are 404'ing on me as well. This link should work though:
http://www.conceptart.org/search/
The first and third links in Jason's first post would take you to images posted by Jason Manley (which included work by MB as a whole).


Once everything's archived, this will be a great way to browse work posted by artists that receive a lot of sketchbook traffic. You can instantly find every image ever posted by any artist.

[Jason Manley]

So that's what the big gift was! Really fantastic idea, thanks a ton to Jason and everyone who got it going.

I will check on this. If you wait a few minutes or refresh it should work fine. The servers are getting the stress test right now.

[Jason Manley]

They are 404'ing on me as well. This link should work though:
http://www.conceptart.org/search/
The first and third links in Jason's first post would take you to images posted by Jason Manley (which included work by MB as a whole).


Once everything's archived, this will be a great way to browse work posted by artists that receive a lot of sketchbook traffic. You can instantly find every image ever posted by any artist.


That first link is just to the best of the finished section (five star threads)...the book images just happened to be the most recent thread...one of them anyway. Tomorrow someone else will be there.

[shamandalie]

Thank you so much, people of CA! :yayca:

[Earendil]

Jason, and all the folks at MB, you continue to amaze, inspire, and bless the art world.

Thank you!

[Eric Young]

So now ConceptArt.org is a free art registry? That's awesome. The only problem that I can think of is that companies may still steal our stuff, all they have to do is claim that they looked on other art registry sites and didn't find our stuff. This bill is really fucked up...

[Jason Manley]

unscrupulous types using just one art registry would not be a diligent search...or reasonable search. ConceptArt.Org is already a prime spot for searching images. Now it is just easy to do so. Once the rest of the databases are added the quality of content within this site makes it a leading registry from the get go. Even if the bill does not pass, which is unlikely, it will still be a great place to find artists and view art...as well as all the rest.

[animosapien]

hats off to your initiative..
great work mate....
you guys have a great vision.

[Atlantis]

How fitting that artists should come up with such a creative solution. :) Genius.

[kingkostas]

Thats great jason (and everyone else helped on this)
I respect you all
Happy holidays

[animosapien]

OMG
Jason..i just went through that link that you've posted( the youtube vdo)...
Have they gone insane?
what the hell do they think of themselves?
I know a handful of my friends who are strrugling for one square meal and still stay awake with so much of energy to work ..because its passion that drives all of us...
Isnt it like a better way of asking 'shall i chop your fingers'?
I understand tat its a US rule..
but countries like Us..India... we breath because there's stuff happening at the land of liberty.
5 animation houses have pulled their shutters downlast month...all of a sudden
There's artists everywhere...in the streets literally
animators,graphic designers,modellers.
there's nobody recruiting no one.
The only way these guys ( and their clueless families) are living are from cheap freelancing...
and if this damned rule comes into place..whose gonna 'pay'?

lemme tell you something that had happened to me once...
These guys were NRI( non resident indians) from the US and they wanted an e-comic illustrated.They asked me to upload my work through their attachment manager functioning with their website ( apparently hoisted from the US).
The bastards payed me 'nothing'.
I was like waiting and waiting and then the wretched site 'vanished' one day.
( I also later found out that the names these guys used were all fake and since the emeils happened through their domain....I was helpless.

This episode can repaet ..with anybody..and they dont have to vanish even.

for countries like us( india) its just a breath away to adapt new found rules..especially from the america.

Man..i hope this wont happen.

[Lotet]

sounds great..I think, il wait and se how it works in action, but in theory it sounds great.

[Serpian]

This is great, and I'm sure you will fix any problems and bugs as soon as you can, but just a comment about the artist search: Right now it only seems to know usernames, rather that real names, for example I found no pictures on Dan Dos Santos, but when I searched DSillustration I got at least two pictures that weren't made by him, but they were still watermarked as copyrighted to him. Here (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=132905) he did a paint-over for Eric Fortune, so this picture shows up as copyrighted to him...

But this is a great initiave nevertheless, as the orphan works bill will affect artists outside the US as well... Thank you ca.org and Jason and everyone else who have this vision!

[a la bapsi]

fucking

AWESOME.


THANKS MANLEY MAN

much love <3

[Jens]

One thing I don't understand is how the Orphan Bill works internationally? As it decides what you can do with images you find over the internet.. but the USA doesn't own all the content of the internet.. logically because I'm from Europe my images would be protected?? Looks like another attempt of USA politics to strange the world..

[Miles_]

:} thank you Jason. :yayca:

[QETALIVAN]

I guess you will make then a search tool to find IMAGES and not POSTS. where it is also included the real name of the ARTIST and not only the user name. is that right? being able to specify type of image(genre,mood,keywords..) would be nice. If that already exits, please tell me, I havent seen it.
oh, one last thing...would these "search tool" have thumb nails or something like that to make it easier/quicker?

[Hai]

:yayca:

[Saturns Gate]

Jason,

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!

Your leaping hurdles for all of us on this! :) Im glad your around! Thanks to you and anyone else who helped out!

Sean

[algenpfleger]

Makes me proud to be part of this community. :yayca:


Jens' question is really important I feel. How can they pass a bill that causes such obvious international problems?

[mwillustration]

thanks so much jason and ca! great idea.
one little thing i just noticed...
it seems like the search comes up with usernames as copyright holders instead of actual names, which is understandable, but...
should we then change our usernames to be our actual names so that our images on here are attached to our actual copyright holder names instead of just ca usernames?

[BlackGuy]

Wow so much for being represented by our government... The fact that so many emails and letters were ignored is really disturbing. I sent an email expressing my concerns about the Bill too and got the same kind of automated response.

[Dan Valkar]

yeah, when i upload an image to my sb, i always put Dan Valkar in the name box

should i from now on put my non superhero name????

[Eric Young]

Um i dont know if im going blind or not but where is this new search function on CA? I can get to it threw the link in this forum but i can't find the image search on the website anywhere. Am I just not seeing it or do we have to use the link to get to it?

[eskanto]

Oh wow. Thank you Jason. This is such an amazing effort! Its really deeply appreciated. :)

[donalfall]

I'm not sure how to express my amazement at your generosity and commitment to opposing any exploitation of this bill by dedicated pay-per-use registry agents. I could see the field of internet registration of images becoming very big business indeed, and this is like "prevenge" against them. You got them in the kneecaps before they got to run away with our money. :)

Anyways, I guess a huge thank you is due from myself and all the other members of this community. If you needed to establish a "tip jar" to help pay for these terabytes you're putting at or disposal, not to mention all the costs that acompany them, you would be welcome to the odds and ends in my paypal account, and I'm sure most peoples.

While I know that this is given as a present from you to us, the size and nature of it is pretty staggering. There is no need for a CA member to now panic about the Bill and the abuses it could open. We're still worried about it, and it is still necessary to oppose it as much as possible, but CA has given our works a home. My hat is off to you sir.

:yayca:

[paran0id]

I already see this database becoming "pay per view".
200 TB space and unlim traffic cost a lot after all.

[arttorney]

One thing I don't understand is how the Orphan Bill works internationally? As it decides what you can do with images you find over the internet.. but the USA doesn't own all the content of the internet.. logically because I'm from Europe my images would be protected?? Looks like another attempt of USA politics to strange the world..

A U.S. copyright is a right to exclude others from using that work in the United States. Getting the work called "orphan" is a way to ignore the author's right to exclude use of the work by others in the United States. Other countries have their own laws that determine who has the right to exclude, if any in that country. CA.org has just made it easier for you to exclude people using your works in the United States.

The problem with the orphan works bill is that the United States is a really big market. If somebody is ripping you off in Cambodia it might not be all that much money out of your pocket, but if somebody rips you off in the United States it could hurt a lot.

If you want to do something about the Cambodia rip off you either have to go to court in Cambodia or, if Cambodia is a signatory of an appropriate treaty, there may be an international tribunal to which you can go. The proposed changes to U.S.Copyright law don't affect this situation.

About the difference between CA and other databases and the reasonableness of a search: That is why it is so very important that Google highlighted the leadership recently. That was because this is a leading place that people are brought to when they do visual art content Google searches now. It is not reasonable for people to ignore CA in such a search.

[Jason Manley]

I already see this database becoming "pay per view".
200 TB space and unlim traffic cost a lot after all.

you can support the site by picking up the downloads and going to the workshops. what you see has NOTHING to do with how we run this site. If I had that mentality this site would be covered in advertisements and corporate content. I already know how much it costs to run this site, thank you. And it is a lot. We do about five terabytes transfer each month and close to a hundred mil page views a year. Though if you wanna insult our integrity I am happy to send you an invoice each month for the server bills. haha!


jason

[Jason Manley]

thanks so much jason and ca! great idea.
one little thing i just noticed...
it seems like the search comes up with usernames as copyright holders instead of actual names, which is understandable, but...
should we then change our usernames to be our actual names so that our images on here are attached to our actual copyright holder names instead of just ca usernames?

As long as the image is in the database your username will suffice. If you wish to put your real name in the copyright by you may do so. However as long as your username is there you can be found.


jason

[Jason Manley]

This is great, and I'm sure you will fix any problems and bugs as soon as you can, but just a comment about the artist search: Right now it only seems to know usernames, rather that real names, for example I found no pictures on Dan Dos Santos, but when I searched DSillustration I got at least two pictures that weren't made by him, but they were still watermarked as copyrighted to him. Here (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=132905) he did a paint-over for Eric Fortune, so this picture shows up as copyrighted to him...

But this is a great initiave nevertheless, as the orphan works bill will affect artists outside the US as well... Thank you ca.org and Jason and everyone else who have this vision!


Yeah we have some cleanup to do on old images. His other images he shows on the site using IMG tags are not yet released in the viewer. Patience young jedi.

Each user can edit their copyright info. The system automatically puts the username if no info is included, at least allowing the person to find someone who posted the image, and thus helping track down the original owner. This is why ca now requires copyright info to be posted. Older images will still need editing by those who posted them. It is going to take time to go through everything...but at least the base is set up to do so now.

[Pawkfox]

I love you.
And if I had a job and roof over my head, I'd donate to keep this up.

[carlosranna]

CA is one of the best things that ever happened to the internet. And maybe one of the most important things in our time Art History. The future shall shown the importance of this place to all!

Fuckin love the place!!! Thanks Manley, thanks Massive Black, thanks CA!! :yayca:

[Vatsel]

I can't stress enough the importance of what you're doing here
:yayca: :yayca: :yayca: :yayca: :yayca: :yayca: :yayca:

[corspufo]

Jason, Massive Black, And Concept Art.org, I love you guys!!!! This is an incredible gift. Thank you so much for doing this. I already owe this community so much for all that you've given me and now I owe you even more. Thank you! Jason, you had mentioned in Revelations Seattle, that you'd never put ads on the site, and that really moved me. Such integrity is a rarity in a world that looks to make as much money as possible. And this only reinforces how much the art matters to you and how much the community means to you. So thank you again.

CA for life!!!!!!

[Fraz]

Thanks for all of this Jason.
One question though, is all of the drop down menus needed or is it just for added searchability?
I know quite a few people find it a hassle to input all of the information, especially when doing a huge dump of sketchbook pages or studies. If it is just for added searchability, can you please make it optional?
Thanks

-Fraz

[SweetPea]

Wow.... CA MB and most importantly Jason thank you so much for this!! makes me proud to be part of this place, even if ive only been so for a little while, i always feel accepted... (o and btw ive always loved your profile thumbnail =) )

guys just a question that popped into my mind about what i think "blackman" said about our government not representing us or something....

well.. the last time i checkd not one single congressman (or woman) is an artist, or writer or anything of the sort.... soooo isnt that kinda like textbook taxation without representation? isnt that a big part of what we had our little war for? is there some kinda of petition or protest that we can join? cuz i wanna help do something about this, and id love to donate, but ive no job, and i cant get one for about 5 days when i turn 16, but thats not important... things need to be done about this... i think we should all write to our congresspeople about this... i know jason said that they didnt do much the last time, but i still feel a responsiblity to join in with this... dont you? we're the ones that are benefitting from what jason and everyone has done, but what have we really done ourselves? any ideas guys?

Thanks again Jason!!!

[SweetPea]

also, i went to make a thread for this forum, and when i tried to upload an image it asked for who owned the copyright... now should i put my real name for that or my username? sorry you might have already answered this...

thanks again!!

[Aphotic Phoenix]

First of all...thank you!

Secondly... Out of curiosity, and this may be a stupid question but, how does posting on here differ from posting art on sites such as deviantART which gives copyright options, watermark option, and the ability to contact the artist as well? Just trying to understand the difference (if any), from a legal standpoint.

[Jasonwclark]

The idea is to simply kick the entire start up registry industry in the nuts before it can even learn to stand up by taking action ourselves.

Bam, Taste It! :drinkup:
Man this is so fucking G status. I love the way you guys opperate. :)
Seriously, CA rocks the House (and the Senate.) Suck on that Registermyart.com

Good lookin out, and thanks again for everything.

[P-WAF]

Jason, my respect for you just went up ten fold.

[Bruce]

Thank you to all that is involved. This is truly a really great thing that will see great things down the road.

I do have some questions though.
If we start a thread to collect all of our artwork should it include everything? Sketchbooks and all? All of our big works?
What if it's already been published. If I have images I would like to share that I have done for the company I work for would they go in the thread as well? Photographs if we do photography? I ask because I can see people using their thread as a one stop shop place for potential employers. This is also a save zone now for things we share on our website? So everything should go into the thread then?

Thanks for your time. I will do what I can to support you guys in the future. You have floored me with what you have done so far and this went above and beyond.

[remmy]

I was wondering what all that annoying form stuff was on the attachment manager now i understand what you and the team are trying to accomplish I am very impressed. An image viewer and search is with out a doubt the only thing this site desperately needed and holy crap you built in copyright into the attachment and search. Well played Sir. FUCK the government!

[Sorknes]

Just a quick question... I don't think it's been asked yet?

It seems that all images posted by a user are still connected to the user when searching the art registry, even when somebody else is put in as the copyright holder. I've seen several users now with a ton of images that are not art (or is someone elses art) they've posted that's clogging their registry down.

I realise that probably has to do with using the user names and real name being an option (connecting the images automatically to a user, I mean), but wouldn't that mean a lot of double posting of art? I can see several old masters, for example, being posted again and again and ending up on the different users list - especially if you are indeed taking away the IMG tags so you can't link whatever is not yours. (I'm a bit against taking away the IMG tag, to be honest, it limits the users not wanting to upload.)

Are you guys thinking about some way to make you able to change the settings or take it away afterwards so whatever you posted not being your own work (like references and inspiration) will not end up on your own list of images?

[J Wilson]

Jason, thanks so much for spear heading this. It's very nice to see artists as a community coming together to protect their own rights, which has always been a problem for a field that usually amounts to a bunch of individuals doing their own thing.

One question though, will this eventually have the ability to identify unknown images? One of the proposed elements that these registries were supposed to have if I remember correctly, is the ability for someone who has found an image on the net to be able to get it identified via some form of image recognizing software. One of the problems with the bill was that although it was suggested this was a required element of the proposed registries, there as yet isn't a reliable system that can even do it. I think I heard of some systems that were "99% accurrate", but when you talk millions of images, a 1% loss is still unacceptable. I'm curious what you've heard and discussed about this issue.

[Jonish]

Thanks a bunch, whole team around ConceptArt,

I can see that you're really good people and... Hell, I'm going to draw something pretty, just to show how happy I am right now, because of your clever brains!

[phoenicorn]

isn't what the government doing an infringement of our human rights? I would have thought that what they are doing is some what illegal because this to me feels like a kick in the nuts to the ordinary artist. I am not American (British) but I am not so blind as to not realize the international implications of this bill passing. Also is my understanding right that a work is only considered to be orphaned if the owner cannot be found with a search?

[Zirngibism]

Like pretty much everyone else, I am grateful for all the work you guys did on this.

Ok, now for my question.

Could we choose to exclude work from the database without actually removing it from CA?

I ask because my crappiest and oldest (even some middle school 0_o) work comes up first when my name is searched, and I don't want it to be a representative of me.

Perhaps we could change the order of the work so people don't get the wrong impressions?

[hismastersvoice]

Damn

When did US turn into USSR?

And, apparently, even though I live in Europe some twerp in the US can still steal my work...

Amazing.

Though it is encouraging that artists, generally known for being... let's say, artistic in certain areas, though up this idea. Thus we become more like craftsmen.

And thats good.

[arttorney]

For the record: There wouldn't even be any copyrights if it weren't for a government establishing them. (In the U.S. its Article 1, section 8, clause 8 of the Constitution)

Thus, the U.S. Government isn't taking away anything that it did not give out in the first place. The proposed law merely concerns the opening of a loophole that certain people outside of the government might use to exploit internet works that would otherwise be covered by copyright.

There have been some questions along the "what if" line seeking to find out whether the new system is perfect, flawless, and foolproof. As an intellectual property attorney (not involved in this project and not working for anybody who is) I can say that no registry would be foolproof because at the end of the day a copyright infringement or lack thereof comes down to whatever some warring attorneys can convince 12 people who've been dragooned onto a jury to say it is. That's an uncertain situation.

This particular registry:yayca: is free. You can be on more than one registry if you want. If you don't trust registries you can always register your work with the Copyright Office itself (which is the government's own registry; but which costs money).

[Jason Manley]

You can edit your own image set for copyright detail adjustments, however the images in the database are there to stay.

Where would mindcandyman's thread be if he removed all his early images. There is art history being made online nowadays. The whole purpose of IMG tag removal is to preserve the integrity of our history here and better search the system.

[vibhas_virwani]

thanks a LOT jason !!! you rock !! everytime i loose a contest and\or get low on confidence about making it as a professional artist etc , you and the MB crew is always around , with something going on to try and make it so much easier !! i owe my improvement to you guys !!! :D :D :D :yayca:

[The Crazy Dude SRD]

Thanks Jason, I was growing worried about introducing some of my more personal works online especially due to this new 'Orphan works' bullshit... I somehow feel a bit safer ( just a bit...) in letting the floodgates loose...

This is most definately the biggest bird flipped to our government and the asshole lobbyists that wanna bring down our creative houses even before we even let the foundation dry. And not only for us, but perhaps the generations next that haven't even gotten a hold of the cement.

FIGHT THE POWAH!!!
-Shawn

[SpiritRaptor]

The bill is outrageous! :( However thanks to CA for providing this service, long live CA!

-DR

[Adrian Wilkins]

I can't thank you enough for letting us know...these things make conceptart.org no 1 favorite page!!!

[Sorknes]

Hm. That didn't really answer my question about images and photos not belonging to you though.

I realise what you're saying about art history, but even the ones where you're not the copyright holder comes up on the search.

[Zirngibism]

You can edit your own image set for copyright detail adjustments, however the images in the database are there to stay.

Where would mindcandyman's thread be if he removed all his early images. There is art history being made online nowadays. The whole purpose of IMG tag removal is to preserve the integrity of our history here and better search the system.

Yeah, that does make sense.
But could it by default display the most recently attached images first?

[Mohd.N]

That's a big effort from CA's part and I really really appreciate that and for the rest of the issues I'm trying to be optimistic. Please Jason let us know if we can add something to stop these crazy things to happen and keep CA as it was always. Thanks much:yayca:

[selfu]

:yayca: great idea CA! happy new (creative) year ;) cheers!

[Fraz]

Sorry to repost this, but I would like it answered if you can.

"One question though, is all of the drop down menus needed or is it just for added searchability?
I know quite a few people find it a hassle to input all of the information, especially when doing a huge dump of sketchbook pages or studies. If it is just for added searchability, can you please make it optional?
Thanks"

[Raoul Duke]

Thanks. I love you guys.

I was wondering if a comic book posted here would be protected. I've allways been sketchy about posting developed IP on high traffic web sites, even CA. but I've allways wanted to share it with everyone without the fear of a shady publisher saying "I think I'll take that"

[Taimic]

I Love u guys ^^:yayca:

edit: lol, I didnt want to copy Raoul, but i guess thats how everybody feels about you ;P

[MeTaL-Mike]

Damn that bill is stupid man.

[rapxic]

damn thanks a million but what would happen to those other artist around the world that do not know that this bill is approaching in my opinion this bill needs to be destroyed. great work u guys i definately like how you're taking a stand against this horrible bill

[Jason Manley]

nope.

thanks for understanding.


jason


Sorry to repost this, but I would like it answered if you can.

"One question though, is all of the drop down menus needed or is it just for added searchability?
I know quite a few people find it a hassle to input all of the information, especially when doing a huge dump of sketchbook pages or studies. If it is just for added searchability, can you please make it optional?
Thanks"

[Virg]

thanks a lot for all the effort you put into this website :) You give so much to the art community, its great. Happy new year to everyone

[Stephen Mason]

they might as well shoot me in my drawing hand. lol

[sketcheth]

Thank you for informing and helping to protect!

[Erishaham]

Since the 110th Congress has adjourned, and since this bill wasn't passed, doesn't that mean that it cannot be passed? I don't think it can. But who knows? Maybe it will come up again under a new name when the 111th Congress gets rolling.

That's if they find time for it in between bailing out poorly-run corporations... Oh that's right, Congress doesn't need to vote on that because Hank Paulson just gives the money out as he sees fit. BONUS QUESTION for Americans: Is any of this constitutional?

[thinsoldier]

Would it be ok if I used the search form to set up a proper RSS feed of the most recent images added to concept art on a day by day basis?

If you say 'yes' would you also be willing to set up a bare bones version of the search page with just the search form and the resulting images? No tables or any other unnecessary html. That makes it easier to extract just the images to turn into an rss feed and prevents the rss feed generating code from breaking because of any future redesign of the site's layout.

Do you plan on making any changes to the search form fields /api interface anytime soon?

Also, I don't see any 'form images' text tabs anywhere.

[SzU]

Thank You for such a great initiative!

I am just curious how it looks like from a legal standpoint, is CA's registry meeting all expectations given by US government.

What if they will raise an institution similar to The United States Patent and Trademark Office (PTO or USPTO) as the only legal registry? :/

Hope that everything will be all right, thanks again and good luck! :)

[daHIPPIE]

thanks for doing this, it should be immensely helpful for all the artists

[nethken]

Cant thank you guys enough for doing this, many many thanks indeed.

Just wondering how do we get our work onto the database?

[desertdogg]

iam new here and this is my 1st post. but i like what i see so far. this is a really cool site.

larry;]

[DragonSnail]

With the world so ridden with selfish greediness it's a breath of fresh air to find someone who will make something for someone else, without asking for anything in return. It's still not too late to believe in people! :^^:

A big BRAVO for MassiveBlack and THANK YOU! :yayca:

[silvestri99]

Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit!

Jason, you talked last Jan. about this and other bigs things happening on your end and I'm really stoked to see this come to fruition!
Other than supporting CA through the downloads and workshops is there anything else we can do to keep this truckin along?

Great work to everyone involved and thanks again! This is why I love this community and have found CA to be unparalleled in its resources and aid to the artists out here!

Now to do some search'n...............

[Mac Imagery]

CA ROCKS!!!!:yayca:

[Monkeydominator]

I want your babies. All of you. I want a CA baby.

Bloody brilliant. CA make my belly happy.

[Garrett Moffitt]

Jason,
Not to deride your wonderful you've done with conceptart.org, but I have to wonder if you have even read the Bill?
Link:
http://www.publicknowledge.org/pdf/ow-act-2006.pdf

Look at section B(starts pg.3 ln1). It says the being register with the copyright office does count.

This is a good bill, and makes it easier to protect yourself.

[Garrett Moffitt]

Thank You for such a great initiative!

I am just curious how it looks like from a legal standpoint, is CA's registry meeting all expectations given by US government.

What if they will raise an institution similar to The United States Patent and Trademark Office (PTO or USPTO) as the only legal registry? :/

Hope that everything will be all right, thanks again and good luck! :)

Read the bill:
http://www.publicknowledge.org/pdf/ow-act-2006.pdf

[Tigermoth]

There is a reason some of us are artists and not lawyers or politicians. :frustrated:

Is there someone that can actually translate the legalese accurately and fully?


Furthermore, if you are basing your opinion that it is a 'good bill' solely on the fact that the copyright office does count, I am not comforted.

Some of us still cannot afford to pay to register every one of our works.


The question I would like to know is whether or not posting the work through Jason's system would work, as was asked before.

Please don't tell me to read the thing - I tried, and suppose I'm just too A.D.D. to be able to focus/understand it.

Kudos to Jason and conceptart.org, in any case!!! :yayca:

[Emmett]

Many, many thanks for generating this registry Jason :muscle:

Let's all hope this goes a long way to screwing with their intentions ;)

Thanks again!

Chris

[PMorin]

Wow so much for being represented by our government... The fact that so many emails and letters were ignored is really disturbing. I sent an email expressing my concerns about the Bill too and got the same kind of automated response.

The media needs to hear more about this as taxation without adequate representation for artists and any other angle we can think of .Let's make as much noise as we can about it until people start listening.

[PMorin]

And thank you so much CA! What a great idea! I haven't been here long but I keep loving this place more and more all the time ! Keep up the great work!

[PMorin]

. BONUS QUESTION for Americans: Is any of this constitutional?

Exactly what iwas thinking ; there must be a law somewhere that would negate such a stupid bill.

[Newman101]

Wow.. just .. wow. Thanks so much for setting this all up. I know Im not the greatest of artists, but I aspire to be among them. And many of them are here. Just one more thing for all of us to be thankful for here.

[arttorney]

The brouhaha is not about whether or not there is any way to register your work. There are already ways to do that. The problem is actually a matter of economics. If you have to pay $40 a pop to register each drawing (and wait about six months for your registration certificate) before you can safely post the drawing on the internet, then people will stop posting their works on the internet. Not everybody has a lot of money or time for that.

It is correct that, if you can afford to register each work with the Copyright Office, then that is the way to go. Registration with the Copyright Office is a prerequisite to filing a Copyright Infringement lawsuit in the U.S., whether or not you are on another registry.

Congress was given the authority to make the laws implementing the copyright system by Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the U.S. Constitution. Congress has the authority to make this law, (though I am not saying it is a good idea to make this law). Congress makes all kinds of laws that are stupid ideas. They made a law that said a guy who grows 40 acres of wheat can't keep the wheat to feed it to his family and animals, but instead he must sell his wheat on the open market and then buy food for his animals and family on the open market. The Supreme Court upheld that idiotic law.

[JennyT]

I thought the US had freedom of expression laws that would have made a tax on art unacceptable? There would be outrage across the media if something like this was suggested in the UK.

[Ignatz]

I have a few questions regarding the orphaned works bill, maybe you guys can help.

1 -This thread is obviously to create a registry so that people's art can be found by corporations intent on using online artwork. My question is -
How do we know that the corporations will happen to find this registry?
They could easily claim they couldn't find it...Which would be no different than art theft today.

2- The existing copyright law states that any artwork automatically becomes the artists copyrighted material as soon as it's created....Does this mean the Orphan Works bill will repeal this law?

3- If the Orphan Works bill does not repeal the existing copyright law, then why is it necessary to register your art?
It seems to me that whether it's registered or not,you still have control over your art, and you should be able to register the stolen art in question at anytime...Which means you wouldn't need to register every piece of your art, but rather just the pieces which you discovered have been used without your consent, and are going to be involved in a legal battle.


4- The Orphan Works bill states that if a corporation uses an existing piece of orphaned art, and the ARTIST surfaces later, he/she regains control of the art....Isn't this the same situation as it stands now?

I know that currently, if you create an image you automatically own the copyright...However if you want to go to court for a copyright dispute, you have to officially register the art at the copyright office for documentation required in a court case.

I was just wondering how the Orphan Works registration would be different than the current Copyright registration ??
Both registrations cost $


Thanks

[ToddLo]

Arrtorney: a question, then. If I have a website which displays all my artwork complete with copyright notifications, would that also be a "home address" for my works? Or should I repost everything here (and there is a LOT ...)

Also, the app "TinEye" makes this whole Orphaned Works thing silly as hell.

http://tineye.com/login/submit

With TinEye, you can post a jpeg, and it will scour the internet and show you any variation of that file on the internet. It's quite astounding, and I wonder if a good registry shouldn't include a link to it prominently on the home page?

[ToddLo]

Ignatz: The Orphaned Works bill caps damages at an unrealistically low level -- something like $800 if my memory serves. It makes a rights battle too expensive to bother with, because you'll never recoup your expenses. Under the guise of "building in accountability" they give thieves a "get oout of jail free" card.

[Ignatz]

Ignatz: The Orphaned Works bill caps damages at an unrealistically low level -- something like $800 if my memory serves. It makes a rights battle too expensive to bother with, because you'll never recoup your expenses. Under the guise of "building in accountability" they give thieves a "get oout of jail free" card.

Thanks for the info,I had heard about the cap but didn't know it was that low.

[arttorney]

Since the Orphan Works bill remains pending legislation, the actual language of the bill can continue to morph and so nothing yet is set in stone. I am therefore talking out of my ass here and since this is not yet a law, what I am saying is not legal advice.
I have a few questions regarding the orphaned works bill, maybe you guys can help.

1 -This thread is obviously to create a registry so that people's art can be found by corporations intent on using online artwork. My question is -
How do we know that the corporations will happen to find this registry?
They could easily claim they couldn't find it...Which would be no different than art theft today. This also relates to ToddLo's question. That "reasonable" term they are using in the draft bills to describe the search is a legal phrase that generally means the person has a duty to exercise an ordinary level of care in view of what they are doing. They are not supposed to be able to turn a blind eye to really obvious things like a Google image search for example. I recently had a meeting with a representative of a big web site optimization firm that studies Google's methods (how the spiders go out and find things etc.) And your best bet outside of the Copyright Office is going to be on the sites that get major traffic, good relevant content, and lots of links in and out because they are the ones who will pop up first or second page in reasonable searches. Conceptart.org is one of those sites.

2- The existing copyright law states that any artwork automatically becomes the artists copyrighted material as soon as it's created....Does this mean the Orphan Works bill will repeal this law?
Think of the Orphan works bill more as a loophole defense like the "fair use" doctrine or the "first sale" doctrine. The copyright will still exist in theory but the infringer would have an applicable defense if the work can be ruled to be an orphan work.
3- If the Orphan Works bill does not repeal the existing copyright law, then why is it necessary to register your art?
It seems to me that whether it's registered or not,you still have control over your art, and you should be able to register the stolen art in question at anytime...Which means you wouldn't need to register every piece of your art, but rather just the pieces which you discovered have been used without your consent, and are going to be involved in a legal battle.
Unless you go to Washington D.C. and walk up to the counter in the Copyright Office it can take months to get a registration certificate for a work. (What a pain in the ass!) The registration with a good, obvious, high traffic registry makes it a big risk for the would be pirate infringer because it reduces the likelihood they can pull off a successful defense claiming they can't find the author of your work. For reasons of collecting damages it is better for you if you can prove they knew or should have known they were doing something wrong in the meantime.

4- The Orphan Works bill states that if a corporation uses an existing piece of orphaned art, and the ARTIST surfaces later, he/she regains control of the art....Isn't this the same situation as it stands now?

I know that currently, if you create an image you automatically own the copyright...However if you want to go to court for a copyright dispute, you have to officially register the art at the copyright office for documentation required in a court case.

I was just wondering how the Orphan Works registration would be different than the current Copyright registration ??
Both registrations cost $


Thanks

There is a difference between the case where the artist surfaces and can sue for retroactive damages and the case where the artist surfaces but has no enforceable right to sue for retroactive damages. If your work was an Orphan work and you surface, the infringer can say "Oops! Sorry! We couldn't find you." and you just have to deal with it because they have a defense if you were to file a suit. Currently you can reply "I don't care whether you could find me or not, that's my copyrighted work and I'm suing your punk ass."

And the registry that is now available on Conceptart.org does not cost money. That is the gift that Jason has given to this community. Yes there are limits to what he can do. There are limits to what anybody can do.

There are already limits to the statutory damages you can claim for an infringement unless you can prove the level of your actual damages. Proving actual damages generally necessitates the hiring of a forensic accountant who is going to cost about $10,000 for testifying as to his opinion of your damages. Plaintiff-side copyright infringement is a tough game even under the current circumstances. People just don't want to see it getting any worse.

[Tigermoth]

The registration with a good, obvious, high traffic registry makes it a big risk for the would be pirate infringer because it reduces the likelihood they can pull off a successful defense claiming they can't find the author of your work. For reasons of collecting damages it is better for you if you can prove they knew or should have known they were doing something wrong in the meantime.

Question in response to that, and this may seem really 'noobish' of me:

If we were to simply include our name in the name of the .jpg file we upload - for example, a work called "Wacky landscape" by me - named wackyscape_by_tigermoth.jpg OR wackyscape_by_jsmith.jpg ...

wouldn't that be fair proof that you were 'findable' or googlable by said corporate pirate that stole your art?

So if you were to post a work on your own, lesser-trafficked site, a safe buffer would be to include your name in the file - while you could get away with just including i.d. on a site like CA, to ENSURE there would be no excuse?

(Does that make sense? Seems right to me...) Then again, when did government ever go with the simple stuff that would make sense....

Anyway - thoughts?

[arttorney]

If you are dealing with a pirate type he/she will undoubtedly re-save the file with a different name before re-posting. In the lawsuit it would be possible to request discovery of files on that guy's computer (but they might have been "accidentally" erased somehow). The way to get around such tomfoolery is to have identifying information embedded in the image as a sort of watermark that is not visible. If you have the key, and the guy is a nitwit, then you might be able to extract the identifying information from his copy of the image even if he tried renaming the file (thereby proving he ripped it from your site).

[Tigermoth]

Thanks, Arttorney :)

So my next question would be - how to add the secret embedded watermark?

Really I suppose there is no foolproof way though. We'll just have to wait to see what happens in Congress...til then I'm coming back to CA.

[arttorney]

Post number one of this thread suggests that CA is already watermarking the images uploaded to CA with that self same information people complain about having to type in the Attachment Manager. I hope it is beginning to get a little more clear why you need to type correct information on there. You need to help CA to help you.

[Tigermoth]

Ahh - I was under the impression they only meant a physical watermark on the front. I haven't actually been on CA for quite a while - and just recently some friends convinced me to come back and check it out again. I'm glad I did.

Anyway, will have a closer look at the system, thanks again!

[Jie Kageshinzo]

Thank you, Jason and co, for looking after us artists. :yayca:

[The Whistler]

Thank you guys! :)

[algenpfleger]

People do realize that the database only works with the images uploaded to conceptart.org via the attachment manager, right? o_O *scratches head while staring at some threads in the registry forum*

[Kyrn]

Thanks for at least trying something. Tineye.com will help a great deal, but there seems to be no reason if registries are required why there cannot be an artist run one. I've written my representatives and as many other representatives as I was able to fax month after month but the only one I got even a remotely hopeful response out of has probably lost re-election now.

I will be happy to use this service if I can ever figure out my way around here.

[vayne108]

Thats great!! now I feel allot better about this issue.

[Mercuralis]

Just wanted to say that it was really great getting to hear about this firsthand at last Thursday's Macworld Digital Pioneers session.

Just a couple of questions (since I really am more of a CA lurker than frequenter--though I'd like to change that):

The system only works when you upload to the forums via the attachment manager, correct? So images that are already in my CA gallery are not searchable via the viewer at this time (since as far as I can tell the forums and the galleries are separate entities)?

Also, would it be possible in the future to use a service like TinEye.com to search images on CA?

I know TinEye is in the process still of adding sites to its search database, and it's doing a great job so far, but I don't think CA is in the search database yet. Most of the people who will be looking for art will likely be doing a reverse lookup (they may have the image but not the author information), making scrolling through pages of galleries like the old needle in a haystack analogy. Even if they happen to correctly guess the right combination of categories and subcategories to narrow it down, the potential for pages and pages of images is pretty huge. A digital fingerprint search like TinEye (or in conjunction WITH one like TinEye) would really help alleviate that.

At any rate, it's good to see steps being taken to head the vultures off at the pass. We don't know at this point if the bill is dead or if it's going to keep coming back in different forms, but having something like this to fall back on if the worst should occur makes a big difference.

So thank you, Jason, once more for everything you've done. Having recently had to navigate through the (way too complicated) US Copyright office's site to register a single painting, it's wonderful to see a simpler solution coming from one of the current leading art sites on the web.

[nickzorn]

Just so that everyone knows, the Orphan Works Act of 2008, which was passed in the Senate, died in committee in the House of Representatives.

This does not mean that it cannot be reintroduced; it probably will be. There are always unscrupulous individuals looking to make a buck off someone else's work.

This art registry is an excellent step in stepping around the bill should it be reintroduced and passed.


Keep an eye out on coloradopols.com for redstateblues and on denverpols.com for Elliot, he's keeping an eye on the bill's progress; again, as of last session, the bill was stopped, but should it be reintroduced (and there is a high likelihood of that happening), this guy will be talking about it.

[Mark Bot]

perhaps this has been stated before. if it has i'm stating it again

WANT: To tag images with more than one Medium. I work in Painter AND photoshop and only being able to tag an image with one or the other feels limiting.

[KonnA]

I can't believe what they are trying to do... Its disguisting.

[geckotrillam]

thank you thank you thank you!

[hatface]

i too am more of a lurker on CA, but i've been keeping my eye on the orphan works act (as have most of the people here at scad). just want to let you guys know that you're awesome. it might just be a first step, but it's an amazing first step.

[Oden]

Hey, for some reason on my sketchbook thread a whole bunch of images that I've uploaded (near the bottom of the first page) are saying "attachments pending approval'?

...the wierd thing is that I uploaded them a while ago, and they were working for a month or two at least. Is there something I should do to get them reapproved, are they too big?

Owen

EDIT: When I click on the attachment links, they link to the pictures correctly...the pics just don't show in the thread? I tried re-editing a post to see if they would show up, but no luck.

[Oden]

sorry, I was being stupid; had to reupload them, I guess because of the copyright submission requirement.
The thing that was confusing me was that some of my stuff remained up, it was just the pencil sketches that crapped out.

[Molly]

Jason, I have a thought/query/question: Is there any way of combining the Art Registry Forum and The Gallery section? I mean, if we're registering ourselves in one forum, surely, it could be linked to the personal Gallery section, where we are already showcasing our artwork? I just see the two forums/sections as being quite similar in function, but with different titles...

just a thought/two pennies/blah blah...
mx

[Jason Manley]

thanks molly...working on it...much more to do.

j

[Molly]

aaah-ha! thanks Jason, I shall keep schtum 'till its all sorted then!! :)

mollykins x

[PrincessLeia]

Well, How are you posting your sketch books? Is there like an introductory tutorial, or a handout? Where's the fine print? DO I have to subscribe to a thread? please help me, I'm totally analogue

[SHAP00PI]

There is no doubt in my mind that conceptart.org is here for the artist, not for anything else, financially, socially or politically, words cannot express my gratitude for the actions you have taken here to protect our work, and more importantly, our rights as creative individuals.

I thank you, sincerely from the bottom of my heart, exceptional work and effort.

[Smashed Skeleton]

Do any Canadians out there know if there is an equivalent law in Canada? Under the SPP all of our laws and regulations are being "harmonized" with the US and Mexico. Not cool at all.

[Smashed Skeleton]

Another question: How do you think this new stupid law could affect artists from other countries who post their art on American sites? Could it somehow become property of that site?

[krea8tiv]

This is awesome. What a generous gift to artists everywhere. Thank you.

[clockworksnail]

:yayca: :yayca: :yayca:

[annubis123]

ok, call me stupid but i just don't understand any of this. i have albums on my profile page, i have a gallery which has the categories, subcategories, genre, and medium filled out, and i created a forum and yet not even my name or any of my artwork show up in the image viewer. how do i get my stuff in the image viewer to be searched and looked up? do i just create a thread under this forum with "hot-links" of my completed images and then it'll just suddenly become viewable in the image viewer? how do i subcategorize with hotlinking? thanks!

EDIT: Okay, after reading through some more comments and messing with this forum i think I got it figured out. I was just confused with the FAQ on submitting artwork VS the art registry forum.

[Ink-Ronin]

Awesome man! Simply brilliant.Thank you guys and Jason for banning together to overcome these bloodsuckers!No doubt savvy businesses will seek this forum for the artists themselves.Is there some way to make businesses aware of this free art-registry set-up to further supplement this idea?

[artistcaleb]

Thanks Jason, you and your fellow admins are artists with guns!

[aarondru77]

I'm new here and was directed to this site by a good artist friend and still trying to figure it out. like i want to enter my stuff into forums to get feed back.

[corey_j2007]

I think I understand what is going on, but I'm a little unclear as to how this new conceptart thing rectifies the situation. Does this service replace the need to pay and register drawings etc. with another company? I'm sorry if it's blindingly obvious but I'm very tired haha

are you cereal right now?

[jamesjasper]

Much Appreciated, time to make a donation.

[Klaw]

You guys got my support for life. Simply amazing

[zammap]

What if you already have your own personal website, DA and such? What if people ignore CA?