art deprived in germany and college issue

[edds_bestfriend]

so, here i am in germany as an exchange student for 10 months in which im halfway through. if anyone remembers the post i made about 8 months ago or something i was deciding between going to germany for 10months with a full scholarship or going to art school with some scholarship and many people promted that i go to germany for it would be a life changing experience and indeed it was, however not in the ways i really expected.

my basic situation:
- living basically in the country side with 15min bus ride to nearest city
- living with a host family
- go to 'high school' in said nearest city
- didnt know a bit of german before i got on the plane aside from 'guten tag'
- am expected to somehow function normally in this situation, learn german, and be academically successful

with that said im basically failing all expectation because german is a ridiculously hard language to learn despite living in germany, thus leading me to fail in academic achievment and everything in general. however, hey what can i say, i expected it (though its a lot more brain damaging then i expected, and despite some of lovely situations ive been in, the not so great ones seem to overweigh the good ones) ive got a little over 5 months of painful social interaction, failing expectations, and mind crunching language learning to go, i think i can survive. (this little section was added to give background on my pathetic situation but its here also to prompt people into giving me some sort of comfort and advice, im a little depressed here...) its the lack of ART I CANT STAND.

at first i thought, well hey, you've done art your whole life. went to a freaken art highschool for petes sakes. i think you need a break from all the art stuff to contemplate life...or whatever

but, oh, how wrong i was. german 'highschool' is basically american highschool, except with more academics, less sports and band. all in all, the art class is basically what i believe to be typical high school art class except worse. we learn about impressionism and do stipple art with cheapo markers and watercolor (one project can last for WEEKS) and basically socialize (which i cant seem to do very well) and no one has any interest in art at all. and im not talking about hardcore art history or modern art or whatever, i hardly have any interest in that myself...maybe its just that my german is so bad and that im not talking to the right people...but...I REALLY MISS THAT STUFF.

another problem is that when i went searching for an art class outside of school all i found was acrylic and watercolor painting classes and when i asked about oil painting my host mom said that unfortunately was not in fashion this year. D: ack...how i long to take a figure drawing class...a design class...but most of the stuff in the catalog seems to be basically for house wives who like to knit and make crafts. EVEN THE 'ART STORE' WAS BASICALLY A CRAFT STORE AND EVERYTHING IN THERE IS LIKE A MILLION TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE THEN IN THE US (even without my discount cards its still way cheaper) so even if i wanted to do art on my own...well...not really happening...

i have to say im not too into the art scene here either considering I LIVE IN THE COUNTRYSIDE WHERE COWS AND SHEEP ARE A NORMAL SIGHT. (forgive the caps im trying to represent my distress) i didnt mind it at first but coming from LA...it gets a little quiet over here. back in LA theres so many different art things going on, from modern, to design, illustrations, comics, cartoons. galleries everywhere in downtown (that i just recently discovered), art programs for youths...here...art is just a trend and is basically arts and crafts. like getting canvases, painting them red and sticking jeweled pieces on them or making dolls. whatever the house wives deem fashionable. even after going to a bigger city (colonge) germany seems to like to focus on their old masters and they have modern art museums, that i am unfortunately not interested in. i want to see street art,art from the now, art from regular people trying to tell a story. am i just looking in wrong places? i have to admit i havent done too much online research because i dont really know where to look and my german really isnt good enough to look through all the junk on the internet...

i suppose what i want the most is to meet a group of young people my age who enjoy art as much as i do. i dont care if you suck at it or are brilliant at it. i just need to see some freaken passion. not zombies in art class or housewives knitting or adult art fanatics (its just not the same with older people you know?)

so if you actually got to this point (woahness)...what should i do??? im slowly melting away from stress, boredom, and....everything. not to mention what im going to do after this insanity which is actually my next issue. COLLEGE???? despite missing art so much, i still dont know if i want to do it as a career. i know, wtf right. im actually sort of interested in museum work and that kind of stuff, but im not sure where to look. anyways at the moment im feeling the pressure to go to art college considering ive taken my year off. (though its probably a million times more stressfull and crazy then college will ever be)

after reading this over, i think i made this sound like a really awful experience. and well. it is. but if i look at it on the bright side, ive learned a lot about myself (maybe too much actually), a lot about other people and the way people think and it has opened my mind to a lot of things. germany is also a really cool place and my host family is pretty good. also the bread and chocolate here kicks american bread and chocolate in the ass fo sho. (though i am missing me some authentic asian and mexican food)

which then leads me to another thing (oh god this is getting so long)
i actually quite like germany and would like to put the german ive learned to good use. ive wikipedia art colleges here in germany but i have no way of telling how good the reputation is and how good the programs are. i'd also like to know about shorter exchange programs for art students...so if anyone knows...let me know?

also something not related but related
im reapplying to sva and parsons (i think) and i was told that art colleges tend to give more money to people who stick more entries into the 'other colleges you are applying to' section. how true is this?

im really hoping someone replies to this. i believe i am in need of some support... D:

[Metalclay]

Heh, remember your thread from...last year I think?

Anyway, getting to the actual post, overall it seems as if you think you are wasting time or as if you're not doing what you really want to be doing (CalArts maybe).

I may just be projecting though, but whether you think you're wasting time or not, I will say you are not and should not feel as if you've stagnated in anyway, far from it.

I've used this quote many times before, and I"ll use it again, because it's damn true: "To animate means to give the appearance of life, and you can’t create the illusion of life if you haven’t lived one" -Brad Bird. I do believe you got in for animation at CalArts right?

Meaning whether you're staring at paint dry or backpacking across Europe, experiences are experiences and it's those little things like the 15min bus rides, the awkward social interactions, and zombies in art class that make up the awesomeness of life and what will hopefully later be incorporated into whatever the hell outlet of expression you decide on (animation, illustration, et cetera).

So, take in your time there because you got the basis for a very cool and interesting story for a painting, sketching or even animation.

As for education in Germany, that's what you're asking for right? If I knew German, my top school would be Filmakademie Baden Wurttemberg. It was recently profiled in Animation Magazine, and I'm pretty damn impressed with what I read.

The caveat is though, you must have one year work experience. Does it have to be animation work experience? I don't know, but check out the site:

http://www.filmakademie.de/

Interesting tidbits from the school:

typically 100 people apply to the six-year-old Institute's program each year. Haegele [director of the Institute of Animation, Visual Effects and Digital Post-production at Filmakademie Baden-Württemberg] says, "we take 10 to 15 students. They need one year of working experience to apply. We expect them to know Maya, 3ds Max, Softimage or Houdini, for example, because we do not teach software. Some people have already studied at other schools-maybe for three or four years."

After submitting sample films, applicant may then be invited to take an entrance exam. Those who pass must then make a short film, and they're given three days to do it. "You wouldn't believe what they can do," says Haegele. He adds with a smile that it's after they're enrolled that their ambitions grow and they need more time!

Students in the Institute's Program follow the broader filmakademie curriculum during their first year. which includes three-moth courses in directing actors, camerawork, scriptwriting and experimental filmmaking. "It is useful," observes Haegel, "so that when they light a computer scene, they will know the basics.

"In the second year they study animation basics within the Institute, and they can also take courses like directing or scriptwriting. then in the third year, they really join the Institute, and have a room with a workstation and all the software package available on the network. but they can also use other techniques, including puppet animation or even sand animation if they want." (Haegele notes that Filmakademie alumnus Chris Stenner earned a 2002 Oscar nomination for Best Animated Short for the stop-motion film Das Rad (Rocks). Stenner then went on to animate on Tim Burton's Corpse Bride.)

In the summer following their third year, Filmakademie students begin their diploma films working solo or as a team. Haegele says, "That's not really regulated. we encourage them to pitch their ideas to other students, so we have big teams with most films. A student may do the compositing on another student's visual effects film, for example. He does not have to make his own film to get a diploma."

what really distinguishes filmakademie, however is its team teaching" approach, which utilizes scores of guest lecturers each year. "We bring in people form the industry for a week or even a day- to talk about specific themes, look at student projects and give advice," says Haegele.

The article goes on to cite speakers from ILM, Digital Domain, Pixar, Dreamworks, Sony, and Framestore.

One last tidbit I thought was pretty funny:

We had one intern go to Digital Domain, and the experience was so successful for him he didn't come back!

As for being a curator, I actually got a couple of friends who are in unis for it :) They really like art and are pretty wicked good at it, but, they just love the study of it so much more. Plus, they're more academically inclined than they are artistically. So, definitely not a bad option especially if you like sitting down and reading up on art and talking about it.

Overall though, you're not in a bad place, and kudos on learning more about yourself, something I think everyone, including myself, should do once in a while.

[edds_bestfriend]

hey metalclay thanks for the reply.

yeh, i know its a good experience for me, its just really weird for me. im so use to having art as my main subject...and academics being just something i have to do...well i just want to get through it the best i can without going crazy. man if only i was going to an art high school in germany. that would be heaven..... XD

thanks for the link! im not very interested in 3d animation at all...but i suppose its something i should learn anyways...

[Maxine Schacker]

I'm amazed and disappointed to hear this! I have about 4 Bammes books and I thought that traditional skills, at least as basic training, were respected and taught in Germany.

[cheerleader]

stop whining.
Firstly, experiences as such are the best material for art not to mention opportunities to grow up a bit. Second, Germany has produced some of the finest artist of the last century, maybe if you knew a bit about them it would widen your horizons. Finally, you aren't missing anything aside from crap pop music and sales on shitty clothes over here in the U S of A so dig it for a quick minute.
Great museums and Galleries are all over the place over there. Take advantage of the rail roads and public transportation on the weekends. Which city are you near to??

[Maxine Schacker]

I don't think you understand. For young people in Germany, without the means to study abroad, this is serious.

The great art you are speaking about didn't result from a culture that didn't teach life drawing. While the same attitudes exist at many schools in the US and Canada, we do have access to other programs that respect traditional training.

Read the current thread on this forum about Concept Art. It's filled with advice from working professionals on the skill base you need for this industry.

[cheerleader]

oh ya, your right.
poor kid.

since when does anyone learn anything in school anyway?

[Maxine Schacker]

It sounds as if you are at the wrong school.

[dguy]

edds_bestfriend, I have to admit. I was one of the people who encouraged you to go abroad. I'm sorry to hear that it did not lived up to all your expectations and you are not having the best of time.

But I maintain that the experience is good for you. As you have said, you've learned so much about yourself, other people, and another country in a short time. That kind of personal growth is priceless. It makes you a stronger person and open your eyes to new opportunities. For instance, you now even consider living in Germany for an extended amount of time. So it is life changing, indeed.

I wish you the best of luck with the rest of your time in Germany. And yes, European dairy and bread blows everything in the USA out of the water. I really miss the bread and cheese sandwich that I would have there every morning.

[Maxine Schacker]

A year abroad is definitely valuable! The students I'm worrying about are those German students who aren't doing a year abroad and need skills!

[edds_bestfriend]

oh gosh! i totally forgot about my thread here!

well thank you all for your information and everything, i really appreciate it!
just to update on my situation, everything has settled a bit since the first post and i've got 3 months left in germany...and...well my art situation hasn't really changed, but its pushed me to go crazy with my art on my own. haha. though i do miss the art community sort of thing, i've discovered that i can push myself to draw and be creative on my own with the aid of my new experiences in germany. i definately don't regret coming to germany and never really did; the first post was just due to all the stress and expectations of germany and myself.

@kiera: thanks, haha, german is ridiculously hard! and thanks for the information. i was wondering, are there any specific universities in germany you can suggest for illustration/animation? this is for me and for a friend in germany who has interests in animation as well...also do you know any maybe in england as well? i would suggest american schools to him because i know a lot of american art schools but they're so expensive espeically for international students...

@Maxine Schacker: thanks for understanding. :D i'm working my way through the art business on my own..

@dguy:don't be sorry and thanks for giving me your suggestion in my other thread. i definately agree, germany has given me a new perspective on life and art just not in the way i expected..

@cheerleader: yes i know im being whiny but life was tough for me and really homesickness really doesn't help when you don't understand the language and am being put in a situation that is completely and utterly different from what i grew up with not to mention trying to be successful academically in another language, but hey im getting through it, so i get props for that don't i? anyways, if it were as easy as just going out and searching for arts to inspire im quite sure i would have done it. i live in nordrhein westfallen about 30 mins away from essen. i would love to go out every week and take advantage of the transportation system here but unfortunely its actually pretty expensive and considering the rates between us dollars and euros...well...its expensive. and besides, i'm not really searching for museums and galleries, i was looking for hardcore art classes and a group of kids my age that are into art. well anyways, i happen to love the US more specifically los angeles. so..i think im missing quite a lot.

[Farelle]

i just got my next experience and "fail" search of a highschool in germany today....

and im very dissappointed...


they dont wanna see technique or or naturalistic....or whatever....fantasy is stereotype....comic drawings are stereotype....ah yeah....interests like angels or such are stereotype...doesnt matter how you draw them...>.<

your text describe very much what i can see here in germany, what i didnt want to see....(after i had a lot of trouble with a teacher from a design class, i hoped he would be the only one that draw and think "artish" like this)

i dont like this thoughts about art here....its more like: we try to FORCE NEW art.....


why?

i cant understand it....after all every picture have references...so why trying to make something new?instead of using things you know to create something good? lol^^

anyway....it seems i have to go to Games Academy ...think its the only school in germany that fits my purposes and my understanding about art....


i dont know if i should like this word anymore....



and to be honest...i really like the english language and somewhen i'll visit america and GB again....but i couldnt for life ;) i like germany....but it has some lacks that are really annoying...

its like im from mars XD many things arent fitting for me here XD not only art schools.



i m feeling confirmed with my thoughts ;) thanks for this posting.
Even if its bad, its nice to know that im not alone^^

[edds_bestfriend]

@Farelle: yeh...its kind of tough here...i finally found a figure drawing class to go to (its like an hour away from where i live...), but even then, it wasn't really a hardcore art class. it was more like older people who were interested in learning how to 'make art' know what i mean? well anyways, its still nice to draw but i'm so use to drawing with other people who are really experienced in art and want to become professionals...at this art class, it was just people starting to learn or those who have been doing it as a hobby...so its kind of embarrassing when they're always complimenting my work...instead giving crits... but anyways, britain seems to have a lot of good art schools. :> i know the US does too...well good luck to both of us..hahaha.

are you german btw? or are you just studying in germany?

[~Faust~]

Yes, I definately understand what you mean, having grown up in Germany, drawing and painting have always been propagated as mere hobbies you do to relax from your office job. The only art-related job really considered professional work would be that of a graphic designer.

Of course that is an exagerration and I see attempts here and there to make a difference like at that school in Leipzig. They recently hold an exibition here in the NL and the work there definately emphasizes the technical aspect of image-making. Or the Guys at Rotopol in Kassel that introduced the concept of Illustrators publishing themselves which is insanely brave considering the german publisher-scene shuns any kind of authors doing that, taking away their precious margins and powers.

Unfortunately, those are just little stabs into the apathetic monster that seems to be the german culture scene. Not that it is that different here in the dutch province where I live anyway. I have yet to see a classroom full of students working only for their art and willing to build a career on that.

I feel with you, buddy. But I also think that your experiences in a foreign country will prove extremely valuable to yourself. Learn the language because another language shows you a different way of thinking and opens your mind a little more. German is _not_ such a difficult language. I don't know how many foreign languages you learned before but they all have in common that they will grow on you in your environment. Just don't fall into the trap of letting germans tell you that their language is hard to learn or that you should have perfect grammar all the time. We are arrogant, elitist and xenophobic people-

Good luck, on the other hand, you still have enough time and those experiences puts you way ahead of a lot of your fellow americans, I'm sure.

[edds_bestfriend]

@~Faust~: yeh, its sort of depressing because i absolutely adore the atmosphere of germany and the nertherlands and would really like to study here for another year or half a year...which i could probably still do, but just not really art. i feel like the most disappointing thing is that its hard to find young people who are really into art. i mean, even i'm not the most enthusiastic about art, but when in the presence of people who are and have the passion to become artists...it really rubs off on me and i begin to share that passion as well...

haha. i've only learned chinese and spanish beforehand and those languages are significantly easier compared to german, so its quite a challenge. but my host sister is taking russian and she complains about how hard it is all the time, so i'm quite satisfied with learning german...hahaha. and really, learning a harder language like german makes me want to go back and really learn spanish and chinese properly again.

but really the german people i've been around have been really nice and supportive about my german, so i guess i'm lucky. :D

anyways, thanks a lot for the the comment, i'm glad i did this program anyways and it really has brought a lot to my life. :D

[eezacque@xs4all.nl]

its sort of depressing because i absolutely adore the atmosphere of germany and the nertherlands and would really like to study here for another year or half a year...which i could probably still do, but just not really art. i feel like the most disappointing thing is that its hard to find young people who are really into art.

Sounds like you should set some priorities for yourself, as it is unlikely that you can get everything you want at the same place and time. Maybe you may spend some more time in Germany or Netherlands, just because you like it there, keep drawing, and stop ranting about art education? Or, alternatively, focus on your art education and move to where you can get it?

[edds_bestfriend]

Sounds like you should set some priorities for yourself, as it is unlikely that you can get everything you want at the same place and time. Maybe you may spend some more time in Germany or Netherlands, just because you like it there, keep drawing, and stop ranting about art education? Or, alternatively, focus on your art education and move to where you can get it?

well, i suppose i just found myself in a unexpected situation. i went to germany wanted to escape from art, just to realize that i miss it, but when i tried to find it in my community...it wasn't really present and i'm so use to have so much access to great classes and people to relate to..that it was disappointing to not have it as readily avaliable as usual, that's all.

you're right though, i know i probably won't end up studying art in the netherlands or germany, but i probably will visit from time to time just to improve my german enjoy atmosphere. :D

[Farelle]

im a german, born in germany and still living here^^ too sad im not studiying right now....want to...but if there isnt a cheaper way to study these things i want to learn....then i'll maybe just get some work as graphic designer or something similar and draw in my rest time...-.-" so i maybe can sometime escape from this hell :P

or maybe germany will wake up somewhen^^

cause sculptors are rare here too....as sculpey is XD

[edds_bestfriend]

im a german, born in germany and still living here^^ too sad im not studiying right now....want to...but if there isnt a cheaper way to study these things i want to learn....then i'll maybe just get some work as graphic designer or something similar and draw in my rest time...-.-" so i maybe can sometime escape from this hell :P

or maybe germany will wake up somewhen^^

cause sculptors are rare here too....as sculpey is XD

aw cool! native german! yeh, but learning art is pretty expensive everywhere...but you want to be a sculptor?

i'm thinking every country has their own type of art thing going...who knows...i'm just too use to the american one maybe..

[Maxine Schacker]

I am still shocked to read all this. Germany has a strong history of outstanding visual art.
What happened? And Bammes' books have NOTHING to do with socialism. They are the best books around for structural analysis and comprehension of the forms that create people and animals.

[crimson_shape]

lol germany isnt what it used to be. the youth nowadays is so unmotivated, its really sad. ( i should know, i go to a german school.) i have yet to meet a german my age who is really into art. (or anything else, for that matter) The level of art education is extremely low in germany, thats why im also looking for places in other countries to study. the only thing in which germany truly excels is mechanical engineering and sciences. and thats like almost the exact opposite of art, if you ask me. art is really only regarded as a hobby, same goes with music.

edds_bestfriend, im feeling with you, but dont let it drag you down, art is sometimes a lonely road. you can take a look at austria though, the people there speak german as well and the art scene is more lively than in germany. :)

[edds_bestfriend]

I am still shocked to read all this. Germany has a strong history of outstanding visual art.
What happened? And Bammes' books have NOTHING to do with socialism. They are the best books around for structural analysis and comprehension of the forms that create people and animals.

well i suppose its not the books really...or the history.
its just difficult to find young people who are motivated to really do art. its mostly considered a hobby and nobody really studies it like how i want to. i mean, the art classes in school are basically typical art classes where kids just hang out and learn snippets about art. maybe there are more options in the bigger cities...i don't know because i don't live in one...but really, many people here believe that you can't survive with art as a career and that's already the wrong attitude. i mean, i'm considering art as a career because i like doing it, not because i'm looking to make loads of money. its just a different way of thinking here where i live.

[edds_bestfriend]

lol germany isnt what it used to be. the youth nowadays is so unmotivated, its really sad. ( i should know, i go to a german school.) i have yet to meet a german my age who is really into art. (or anything else, for that matter) The level of art education is extremely low in germany, thats why im also looking for places in other countries to study. the only thing in which germany truly excels is mechanical engineering and sciences. and thats like almost the exact opposite of art, if you ask me. art is really only regarded as a hobby, same goes with music.

edds_bestfriend, im feeling with you, but dont let it drag you down, art is sometimes a lonely road. you can take a look at austria though, the people there speak german as well and the art scene is more lively than in germany. :)

thanks. i actually did meet someone else who was also interested in art the way i am and we took some figure drawing classes together, so that was nice. :> it would be really nice to find some more though...the amount of resources is pretty lacking too...

i will check out austria, it sounds like a cool place and i hear the austrian accent is very pretty~ :D

[ikken]

The level of art education is extremely low in germany, thats why im also looking for places in other countries to study. the only thing in which germany truly excels is mechanical engineering and sciences. and thats like almost the exact opposite of art, if you ask me. art is really only regarded as a hobby, same goes with music.

I think it's pretty much everywhere in westen europe - welcome to the contemporary era, where artists are able to develop their artistry independently in an international context.