newest sketches(updated-image heavy)

[Carnifex]

i'm happy to be able to present more recent sketches finally.all drawn with 2B pencil on a4 paper.
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6138.jpg
first i wanted to do some heads but then it just came to pondering about various dress designs.
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6139.jpg
trying to copy a girl's head (second from upper left)from a photo at first,but then drawing from memory.
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6141.jpg
just trying to copy another girl's head from a photo.pretty hard to manage(i'll post the photo ref later on)
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6140.jpg
and the last one for today.i drew it as late as yesterday.in fact a shading exercise,but also a bit of unintended anatomy practice.the fire in the bg of the second one was originally not planned to be there,but when trying to give him hair,it turned out just to get there.
until later.cheers:chug:

[Signature]

I'm working on a longer reply for the other thread right now.
Some of these new sketches look a lot more promising.

A quick suggestion would be ... don't only draw fire-and-forget sketches ;)
When you complete a face look at it and ask yourself how you can push the concept and if you have to fix anything.

And maybe vary the time you spend on your sketches.
Most of the ones you posted look like sketches to warm up.

Also draw bigger, more refined sketches and maybe make studies of the features.

[Carnifex]

ok,i admit those head sketches were more to warm up a bit.the others not.i tried to capture the basic features of the girl's head ot be able to draw it out of mind later in a kindof story(which i never finished or got into really).
sketch page nr3 was drawn before nr2,i tried to draw her face again and again and again but i still haven't got i really.
btw here's one of the references for the girl on page3:
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/frankr15.jpg

[Signature]

Just curious ... how long do they take?

As Prometheus|ANJ wrote ... if you misplace just one line, just a little then the expression will change completely.
Try to be even more accurate. And if you want to reconstruct the face from different angles you have to find a different way to apprach drawing heads I think.

In that case I'd do what Craig Mullins wrote:
think more, draw less.

[Carnifex]

i guess the head studies took me about <1minute-2minutes each...it depends how happy i'm with the result and if i think it makes anything better to go on.the dress things may have taken about the same time,because i was drawing straight without any real thoughts,just to get the pose somewhat right and to see how the dress fits and if it fits.
the pictures on the last page took me maybe 1hour+ each,because i did with preliminary sketch with perspective,then anatomy and finally shading(put in mind where the light comes from).the second one took me longer i guess because the perspective was a bit harder and i doodled around with the fire.
yeah and drawing heads from different angles:i have some reference photos which show some different angles,though not enough to do a real serious head study only i think.i asked one of the girls if i might take photos of her to gain reference material,but she refused.
thanx for the input:)

[gasmask]

hey carn, good stuff, ur really coming along i have noticed, good stuff man, keep it up, id give you a crit but i think you know what you need to do, but ur doing it so much props, keep this up.

[Carnifex]

why,thank you:)

[toram]

Hi,

From the looks of it , it seems that you like to draw, and draw a lot. That's good! So my first advice is to keep that going.

Second, your drawings however, ressemble a lack of knowledge of Anatomy.
There are some really nice anatomy books out there. Buy one or two!
If you catch up with that first it will be a lot easier to capture the human body and face more exact.
Study the skull and muscles, because when you know what lies under the skin, its easier to see the basic forms and subtleties of the human body.
Also, the best way to study at first is to draw from life ( nude models, on the street, parks, café, zoo... or yourself in the mirror :) )
Also you could start by taking your time for a drawing.
For example: you have those pictures , so why don't you try and copy one of them. ( just a thought) You will learn a lot from it!

Hope this was a bit helpfull :)
greetz

[Carnifex]

well,in fact i get those advices from pretty much everyone.i already have an anatomy book and am already trying to get how the most important muscles lie under the skind(even if it doesn't show in these sketches too much yet,from your comment to conclude).i don't have too many difficulties with drawing faces(atleast i think so),but ok,ok,you're right,i should draw more from life.it's just hard to get models or spare time(school everyday,mostly until 4 in the evening and then homework,but i don't wanna complain here).thanx anyway:)

[toram]

Hi

Yes, it wasn't until now that i saw the other thread.
I was reading the replies there and i most hand it to you, you have fire in you ;)
And i see a lot of positive energy in you. That's great!

But.....

Don't think of yourself as a GOOD artist. In that way you will not learn fast enough. And believe me.... you still have a lot to learn. I hope i come of right here ( i don't want to scare you ). Because confidence is very important, especially when your applying for a job in this sector.
But in here i think people are just trying to help others out with critics whether they're bad or good. And i am assuming that you post your drawings here to get some critics to help you improve.
So i think some people are a bit surprised when you go in some sort of defence stance towards them. Altough with me , it brings up a smile :) I hope i'm making myself clear here, hehe :)
Now enough with the lecture here ;) ...and on to your drawings...

Unfortunately yes, it does not show in your drawings that you know the facial structure well. Don't say that you have not too many difficulties drawing faces.
Because i haven't seen anything (yet) that shows me otherwise. ( hint: look at some model sketches from Kevin Chen here on CA, http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1432
For example if you look at most of your profiles, you see that, your facial line is way to straight . ( altough there's one thats ok, except for the forehead. ( on the second page , the fourth from the left , at the bottom)) All the others are pretty much off.
Also your figures on page 1 are all distorted in some way,
I mean , look at their arms!

The good thing tough is that you show some abilities, but i don't believe your a natural. You will have to work a lot to become very good i guess. But i don't say its not possible, you have the ability! Together with your refreshing confidence the future is hopefull, i believe :)

Keep it up , and DRAW, DRAW, DRAW... :D

[empty]

just cuz you have an anatomy book and you look at it doesn't mean you will ever really learn or understand the structure of the head. it helps to have someone show you. without a good figure teacher around your best bet is that Kevin Chen thread. i was going to send it to you, but toram beat me to it. look at the second page of that thread and you'll see a lot of examples on head structure. pay special attention to the box of the head. your head drawings lack the volume of the head. they are just a few lines with eyes, a mouth and a nose. even the one you drew from reference doesn't show the volume of the head at all. study those Kchen examples, there are plenty of them to learn from. maybe even do a few studies from his examples. i've been drawing for 20 some years and working in video games the past three and i still find myself studying his work. i know it will help me in the long run.

keep it up. good luck.

empty

[Carnifex]

Originally posted by toram

Also your figures on page 1 are all distorted in some way,
I mean , look at their arms!


heh,i admit i didn't give a heck about anatomy on the first page,because all i cared about was to find a dress that suited my needs:D
empty-i'm pondering about going to some art school after regular school in two years or something(gotta do civilian service first).i'm pretty amazed by chen's drawings and will work further on.thanx for the links and the crits:)
one more thing...because you said you've been working in the video game industry:what things were you doing there?concept art or 3d models?because i'm pondering about getting concept artist for a game firm or film company.thanx in advance.

edit: oh,and would someone please tell me if page four is allright or what i gotta work on there.thanx:)

[Signature]

Page 4 is the worst one IMHO.
You shouldn't try to come up with concepts yet.
If you try then start with simple shapes to add depth to them.
Then add details.

And you have to practice shading. Follow the tutorial by Prometheus|ANJ for some sketches.
Make the studies look like photos when you squint.
I think that is a quote from there!?
http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/tut_learn.php

[Carnifex]

well,the only problem is my tablet crashed completely shortly and with a pencil only it's veeery hard to achieve foto-like effects...;)

[Carnifex]

just one thing that confuses me now...wtf is so bad about page four?the anatomy can't be that bad,i've seen better crits on worse pics(imho),even though i know i gotta practice shading,but that can't be all...:(

[empty]

hey, check out this head drawing tutorial.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14582

this is done with charcoal, but it's easy to get the same effects with a pencil. and i agree with jens... excuses are like a$$holes, everyone's got one and they all stink...

[Carnifex]

yeah,but still i wanna know what exactly's wrong with page four.:confused:
edit:thanx for this very helpful link:)

[Signature]

The forms don't read well in both ... the concept for the 2nd one looks funny.

You rely too much on lines.
Everything in the image seems to be equally important.
Make a center of interest. Suggest more detail there and add contrast.
All the lines have the same weight and are too bold.

To come up with concepts like that anatomy isn't all but in yours it still looks faked.

Prometheus|ANJ again:
Buying an anatomy doesn't magically improve your anatomy drawing skills. The best way to improve is to make tons of studies from life or photos. After a while you can start looking in the anatomy book and only then you can begin to understand which knob is what and hopefully learn to guess muscles better when you make original characters.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13172

[Carnifex]

ahhh...now i understand!i'm still relying too much on that anatomy book i have.now that i know the muscles and most of their functions,i relate too much on them of course!i want to draw every muscle as outstanding as possible.yes,now i get it! thanx alot signature!:D

[empty]

well, the first thing that bothers me is the rendering... it's really "scratchy" and all over the place. smooth it out some and that would make the image a lot better. also, the values of all your lines and shadows are really dark. you need to tone down some of the values so you have some midtones. i can see that you're starting to use core shadows which is
good.

here's a couple more of ron lemen's tutorials. don't just look at them. read them. and read the notes at the end. there's a lot of useful information about rendering and volume of shapes.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14045

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14035

now for what's wrong...

left drawing...
first anatomy point...
where's his ribcage? there is no volume of the ribcage. i can see where you drew the ribs in, but i don't see the large egg shape of the ribcage. that should be one of the first things you have sketched in.

second anatomy point...
it looks like there is no pelvic bone in the demon because of the way the side of his abdominal area connects down to his legs. that side area actually tapers down, just above the crest of the pelvis, towards the crotch, creating a V shape.

third anatomy point...
the knees are way out of whack. the knee to our left is way to pointy, the one on the right is better, but the way the lower leg connects to it is awkward. stand in front of a mirror and look at your knees. there more like boxes. use yourself as reference for these certain poses. it's easy to do on your own with a mirror.

right drawing...
1st point...
again no ribcage, which leads me to notice the connection of the arm to the chest area. the deltoid(shoulder) should appear to connect with the pectoral(large chest muscle). there should be some shadow seperation, but not as defined as you show it.

point B...
look at the neck area in your drawing, then compare it to your own and the anatomy book. there's a lot of information not there which make the neck come out of nowhere. you're missing your collar bone, for one. the neck area is still tough for me, i'll admit it, but that's why i noticed it. because i'm trying to figure out how to better draw necks right now.

point III...
the forarm to the left is off. i'm not sure what the big shadow is, but the large muscle mass on the front of the forarm should come from the outer condyle of the humerous(large bone in the upper arm that makes up part of the elbow) to the base of your thumb. again, check out your anatomy book.

that's enough for now... i don't have any more time to go through everything else. start drawing from life again, start doing more studies... you can never do enough of these. draw from magazines, any kind of magazines. look over those tutorials for advice. actually do each of those tutorials over and over and over. when you're sick of doing it, do it ten more times. i actually took one of ron's classes. he's a great teacher and a great inspiration.

draw draw draw,
empty

[empty]

oh yeah...

go get yourself some george bridgeman anatomy books. great construction and great drawings.

[Signature]

ahhh...now i understand!i'm still relying too much on that anatomy book i have.now that i know the muscles and most of their functions,i relate too much on them of course!i want to draw every muscle as outstanding as possible.
Yeah exactly. That is one thing I mentioned.
Look for phenomena in photos ... try to understand why you see muscles or not ...
and what that other weird thing is that you see ( might happen ;) ).

No post without a Prometheus|ANJ link :p ;)
well, the first thing that bothers me is the rendering... it's really "scratchy" and all over the place. smooth it out some and that would make the image a lot better.http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5648

[Carnifex]

Originally posted by empty

don't just look at them. read them. and read the notes at the end.

what do you take me for?:D
but seriously,thanx,wow,i wouldn't have thought that someone would take that much time to point out everything.thanx for your patience empty.:D
yeah,the ribcage...i assume it is achieved by a way of shading that it comes to see.the problem i have here is that the chest seems to cover the ribcage,which makes it not visible.well,now i know it's gotta be different.
and the knees...i've always had problems with kness...nowhere it is covered how exactly the connect to the legs.i can't find it and i don't get it really.
by the left forearm i suppose you mean left from our point of view?or *his* left?
that's enough for now...
oi,that means tomorrow i'll get bashed:rolleyes::p;)
thanx for all the input guys:D

[Pencil Soldier]

How old are you?

[Signature]

He is 18 since the 27th of November afaik.
But let me think ... maybe you didn't ask because you actually want to know it!?

[empty]

according to his bio, he's three years older than you... but i don't think that should matter. all he wanted was a critique.

[Pencil Soldier]

Sorry then, but i was simply curious.

[subhuman]

Originally posted by Jens
ok carnifex READ this carefully

the only reason you got this many replies is that you refuse to accept the comments of people. I see all these great advices typed out trying to reason with you but you seem to ignore every post with some kind of lame excuse. You are not a good artist, you are not skilled yet, and you'll never be if you don't CHANGE your attitude and look at this in a broader perspective than your own mind. Most people in here have 10x the experience in drawing than you so don't just ignore them.. i'm not saying you can't get good, you can but only if you want to learn

final point: if you don't agree with me then i got this great forum for you. People on it will be honest and swift in their judgement.

behold the EATPOO (http://www.eatpoo.com/phpBB2/index.php) forum :evilbat:

:D

[AnarchyAo2]

Yeah, carnifex you need to just swallow your pride (its gotta be false pride because i'm not seeing how you get any out of those drawings) and listen to these fine people. These guys aren't taking shots at you, just giving you advice. Btw, why do you have a tablet when you don't even know the basics of anatomy? :confused:

[empty]

alright guys, now we're just bagging on him. give him critiques or don't post. if we give him a good critique and he doesn't listen, it's his loss. he knows he has to work on anatomy already, so let's stop shoving down his throat. he knows he needs to draw more from life, but don't we all? let's just help him along and stop slamming him.

carnifx, just keep drawing and studying from life and things will come around. when you study anatomy, don't just look at the pictures, try and understand the structure. that's why those g. bridgeman books are good, he shows you really informative and simple ways to understand the constructive anatomy of a person.

[Carnifex]

Originally posted by AnarchyAo2
Btw, why do you have a tablet when you don't even know the basics of anatomy? :confused:
i got one by a friend,and for my final examen at school(not art school) i need to have one to practice with.also,i didn't intend in the first place to draw directly with it,just to colour.
so,and i don't get how you come to think that i ignore the comments! just b/c i don't comment on each and everyone of them that doesn't mean i don't see them!if signature says that he finds page four the worst,then i wanna know why?if someone else says something in between and i don't comment on it immediately that doesn't mean i didn't read it,but that i still wanted to know what was wrong with that darn page four!
and anarchyao2,why do you think it's false pride?aren't you proud of your drawings too when you have finished them?that's a bit hypocritical if you ask me.:smirk:
and thanx empty,if i hadn't read your post now i would have said something i might have regretted later.:xx:

[Carnifex]

i never thought it would work that way,that'd be too easy,and you(maybe) know that.
while we're at it,this is the newest one i have.
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/body.jpg
i drew it today really,really quick for the dsg.i know exactly that the proportions are way off,esp. on the legs and the upper arms.if you're interested,the topic was to create an ueber-muscular person(like the hulk f.ex.).if there's something you see beside anatomy issues and false shadows,let me know.

[Carnifex]

ok,screw that last pic.it was crap,no,it was ueber-crap,one of the worst pictures i ever drew in my hole time at ca!
so,let's rather take these ones:
http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/alienarena.jpg
http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/alienmount.jpg
both of them were done for the dsg.if you wonder the strange colour choice on the creature that's just because i thought that bengal's pics always look so vibrant and alive and i noticed he always makes purple shadows somewhere,so why not try it.the highlights on that one were done with the dodge(or was it burn?i can't keep apart the two from their names,only know the german expr.) tool.also the creature was done in photoshop,while the arena was done in painter.ahhh...you gotta love wacom.:D

[Carnifex]

'nother2 from dsg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/vampireprince.jpg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/newsherrif.jpg
noone even looking at this thread anymore?

[empty]

apparently you're not listening to anyone...

do yourself a favor and stay off DSG... you're getting nothing out of it. just do studies from life and photos. also from those kevin chen pages and the fredflickstone tutorials.

if you start doing that, i'll start critiqueing again. if not, no one is going to respond to your stuff anymore.

[Carnifex]

GETTING NOTHING OUT OF IT?!?!ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!
I'M PRACTICING!AND I CAN'T SPEND ALL MY TIME TO THOSE F*CKING TUTORIALS AND DRAWING OF FOTOS!!!THAT WAY I'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO DEVELOP OWN CONCEPTS!
AND DO ME A FAVOUR AND STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD IN FUTURE IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING OTHER THAN THAT B.S.!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Aveh]

carnifex, i dont see why you are getting upset. people have taken time out of their day to try and offer you some insight and so far all ive seen you do is spit it back in their faces. and about that dsg, agreed whats the point in drawing if you dont have fun with it. its cool that you are doing dsg and everything but if thats how you have fun keep those sketches in the dsg section dont put them here for people to crit if you dont want the crits, and to what your latest reply was saying, what do you define as bs? people offering their advice on how you should progress, the black and white "cowboy" you drew screams nothing cept hallf-assed to me, how can you expect to learn anything if you only half-ass everything you draw. everything in life requires work, even if its suppose to be something fun your gunna have to work for it, so before you start "developing your own concepts" develop some skill and expirence first, if you even showed signs of going down that path, im sure everyone here would be a whole lot more receptive to your art. well take it for what it is amigo.

[Carnifex]

i get upset bc he tells me to stay away from the dsg even though he(might) exactly knows that's a good way to practice,even if that cowboy screams half-assed.which is bc it is half-assed.i admit that.if i don't have a clear picture in mind of what i want to draw then it pretty often gets half-assed.if i know exactly what i want then it doesn't get half-assed,even if some things might still look that way.i am though trying not to make things half-assed,but sometimes it just won't work.the dsg also has a purpose for me:to get speedy at painting.if everything that i draw takes super-long to do,then it would be hard for me in future to get concept artist at a game company or whatever,because they want fast and initial sketches that already show basically what i have in mind.(yes i'm heading for being concept artist at a company most probably).i really appreciate it when ppl take time out of their day and comment on my work.i know many are pretty busy and aren't able to critique every stupid noob that's walking along.yes,i appreciate it.ok,and even though most of you will disagree,I don't think i have no skill or experience yet.what do you expect?i just turned 18 and not everyone is a lungbug.(the older you are,the more you might have practiced if you wonder wtf age's gotta do with it)most of the ppl around me say i've got very good skills for my age.and experience...i'm still at normal school and hadn't have time(or money) to visit a professional art school yet.about developing concepts too early...have you looked around this forum?have you read the name of this forum?it says conceptart forum(sorry if that sounded harsh).even those who need 3 hours for what most of the ones here need 10 minutes for develop their own concepts and present them to the crowd.why shouldn't i?well...and i can't show you every piece of practicing work,bc my scanner is very unhandy most of the time.don't worry,i'll show you when i can,but for the moment you've gotta be happy with these.practically everybody around here is constantly showing his anatomy practices and what-do-i-know,so i think i can really keep some things for me and show you others like these.also,with these i wanted to show you how i'm developing my digital painting skills,bc i'm such a noob to that one i can't tell ya.last week i got my wacom tablet and with it that's the first really good approach i can take to digital painting,bc my other tablet wasn't even half as good.well...enough of ranting,i'll show you newer sketches(on heads) as soon as possible.don't think i spit on your advices just out of delight or anything,but hearing the same things all and all and all over again would annoy you to.i'm sure.
peace.

[Kaoki]

You really need to start breathing.

[fungi]

CUNT

[Aveh]

too that entire post you just made, "one must learn to crawl before you can walk" you keep referring to developing your own concepts and then saying your only 18 and you have good skills for your age, what you said is exactly right, what does age have to do with it, why even bring you age in as a part of what you do, and about the speed paintings, you cant draw yet, if you cant draw you can never paint ( well you could, but being able to draw is the entire bases for it ) , if you are just going to throw everything anyone says out the window as trash why post? and using this sites name as an excuse to post your half-assed stuff then you are really dissapointing, you obviously dont wanna be a commercial artist if you are happy with showing other people stuff your mother wouldnt be proud of, sorry to be harsh. but as i read through the advice others have given you im offended, i wish when i started drawing i was given the same advice. and as for you thinking you can draw well, over-confidence isnt a virtue even lung doesnt think he can draw well. and no one has enough expirence so either you want to learn or you dont, if you do you will see these people have only tried to help you, and you spitting in their faces only heats the waters. if this post doesnt get through to you i dont know what else to tell you, except find a new forum maybe, one that wont tell you the truth about your art, perhaps you will do better there.... good luck to you

[Carnifex]

ok,i'm trying to put this into right words....one of the basic statements you made now was to be as highly critical of yourself as possible.this means i would have to put "oh yeah,and i know i suck" beneath everyone of my posts.i am not overconfident,but i don't wanna get myself completely down,bc i then could stop drawing right away.and i like drawing.and if everybody is telling me i suck really hard now,then i can really stop it,bc it doesn't make sense.everything i'd show would be turned down with "you suck anyway".plz do me a favour and don't go dying on me if i sound like i spit on everybody now.
i don't like to get called cunt btw.:mad:
i post my art,you give me crits,i appreciate them and try to make the best out of it.don't turn me down for nothing.

[Jens]

dude you just don't get it.. go hit yourself with a frying pan for 10 minutes and see if you understand it after that :bash:

[Carnifex]

no i don't get it,so plz leave me alone until i've slept over this and am ready to post new things tomorrow.thank you.

[toram]

Hi,

I made some comments on your drawings and personality also , a while back now.
And i didn't turned you down nor did i call you names. ( BTW : Funghi , if you dont have anything usefull to say , dont say anything at all ! )
I just gave you my honest opinion.

But i have to repeat myself here , and i know that's not what you want to hear. LEARN THE BASICS first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me , together with a lot of people have given you valuable information, i think.
And i must say , i too had lost interest in your posts because you don't show much progress in thinking!
If you are planning on going to art school, you're teachers are going too say the same thing ,believe me !!
And later on when you wanna apply for a job and you are still so hardheaded , they too will say the same thing that many of us have allready said!
I'm sorry if i'm being so harsh on you, but hey ....

But i also wanted to react on you saying you might wanna stop drawing!! For one , don't do that !!!
If you wanna live up to your dreams then what you have to do is keep on going and for you - sometimes or most of the times- listen and respond to advice !!! ;)

That is all
greetz

[empty]

Originally posted by Carnifex
GETTING NOTHING OUT OF IT?!?!ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!
I'M PRACTICING!AND I CAN'T SPEND ALL MY TIME TO THOSE F*CKING TUTORIALS AND DRAWING OF FOTOS!!!THAT WAY I'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO DEVELOP OWN CONCEPTS!
AND DO ME A FAVOUR AND STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD IN FUTURE IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING OTHER THAN THAT B.S.!:mad: :mad: :mad:

hey, carnifx...

how about you read through your posts and look at who spent the time giving you a nice insightful critique. then read through and see who actually defended you to some of the bashing you've been getting. then read back at who first said age doesn't matter.... what matters is your skills.

and this is what you have to say to me....
Originally posted by Carnifex
...DO ME A FAVOUR AND STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD IN FUTURE IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING OTHER THAN THAT B.S.!:mad: :mad: :mad:

does the saying "don't bite the hand that feeds you" mean anything to you?

Originally posted by Carnifex
...i get upset bc he tells me to stay away from the dsg even though he(might) exactly knows that's a good way to practice...

actually, i "exactly knows" that dsg is not a good way to practice... especially when you are trying to learn the basics. it may be good down the line when you have learned your anatomy better, but now what you need is LOOOOOOOOONNNNGGG figure poses. read a few things jason manley has said to the effect that "disney figure gestures" aren't that great, do long, three hours or longer, figure poses to really learn the anatomy.

Originally posted by Jason Manley
...no more short term life drawings for a bit. you need to work on your long term life drawings...three hours minimum...though six to nine would better. you need to concentrate on heads for a while. all different shapes and sizes. all different races.

originally posted in this thread...
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13403

and those are some pretty nice gestures benzo did.

but if you still insist on doing the dsg every day, here's an idea that you should try, i did this for about 4 hours yesterday... pick something you want to study for a certain day... say you want to practice drawing arms... get yourself an anatomy book(again, george bridgeman is good, that's what i was using) and draw the bones of the arm, then draw the overlying muscles and try to learn how the intersect, then draw how they should look with the skin... next, get yourself a picture of an arm in a similar pose, i used a muscle and fitness(or use a mirror and your own arm) and draw that as close to the picture as possible, to see how it looks in real life...

do this for an hour or two before DSG, consider it your warm up, and really try to include what you just studied into your DSG sketch no matter what the topic is.

again me being helpfull here, so let's all guess how long it is until he snaps at me and tells me i know nothing except BS...

place your bets, place your bets

let's hope you take some advice this time.

[Signature]

Yeah Carnifex ... you say you are studying.
But the stuff you post here are no studies.

If you post them here and expect different comments than the ones you got ...
then you just don't get it.

My advice:
Post 5 serious studies for every concept that you came up with.
Read above what serious means in this context.

[brokencow]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

omfg. Concept art needs a toilet for this thread.

[malicious]

a very wise person once told me, 'practice does not make perfect. perfect practice makes perfect.'

practicing will not help you at all unless you're practicing correctly.

this is probably extremely redundant, but bear with me. anatomy books are great, but drawing a live model is best. find a studio that has life drawing sessions and go, even if you have to pay to get in.

it's been said several times, and it should be repeated. know the basics. every one of the most accomplished artists here know and live by the basics. the basics are what the name suggests, the base form, the foundation of art. without a solid foundation, a building cannot stand. to quote another wise person i've known, 'you must know the rules before you break them.'

don't even bother with your own concepts until you get the basics. i'm sure you're tired of hearing that, but dammit, you have to know the basics first. once you can draw well you can draw your own stuff well.

perfect practice makes perfect.
know the rules, then break them.

good luck and don't stop drawing.

[toram]

Hi,

Say , Empty,

What exactly did you mean with :( 'Disney gesture figure' aren't all that great) !

Also i did not find anything about it by Jason Manley in the link given by you below.
Or did you simply meant that ' fast figure drawing ' is not the way to learn the basis of great life drawing? :)

Greetz

[Carnifex]

ok...apologies to everyone who felt unfairly treated by me,esp. empty.further on,i will post more studies,even if i may practice them too rarely yet.i have to upload them first,and they're not too recent,but whatever.
when i've drawn a piece i look at it,think about what has got better since the last drawing and what i still gotta work on.it's not my attitude to say afterwards "that sucked" and not to look anymore at it.if i don't post studies too often that's bc i think they're more for myself than for the public,but if that's what you want to see,then i'll be there to post them.

brokencow,that comment was extremely unnecessary.
everyone else,thank you,and see you later.

[Carnifex]

allright,i don't feel happy just to post this one,but it's the only one i've got scanned right now.it's not recent,but it's atleast studies(or doodles whatever you call them)
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/sketch7.jpg
i don't expect comments on this one bc i wanna upload others first.
edit: ok,they're not studies they're warm up sketches.:barf:

[Vader]

Dam what a hostile thread. Where to start...

First of all you keep going on about wanting to come up with all your own concepts and not spend all you time sketching from photoes. Well mate i dont mean to be a sheep a say what every body else is saying but you are really under estimating the basics. I,m the same age as you and i love coming up with my own concepts however theres no point coming up with these rich and creative concepts if you dont have the skills to present your ideas.

Now i have been locking my self away in my room for the last few months busting my ass drawing from photos, practising my proportions, experimenting with technique and all the other skills reqiured to succeed as an artist. Basicaly what i,m saying is if your passionate about something you wont care what it takes you will accomplish your aims eventually.

Oh yeah and one more thing crits are a big part of art and if you cant take a flaming every now and again forget it.:cool:

[Carnifex]

well i think i took them well after all(them being so many);)
as i said before there is no concept behin that last page(if it's that you're referring to),it's just for warming up and getting my line to be steady.
whatever,i think my biggest problem is atm that i have no real motivation to do all the drawing from foto.i can see the good things about studying anatomy (and practicing it),but not really drawing from fotos.seeing things how they're in real life,ok,but just copy fotos?
oh well,will scan some things soon to show you.

[Carnifex]

ok,now we can talk!:firedevil
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/extremities1.jpg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/muscles1.jpg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/muscles2.jpg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/muscles3.jpg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/muscles4.jpg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/muscles5.jpg
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/heads.jpghttp://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/headref2.jpghttp://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/headref1.jpg
important notice: i didn't draw them all today,in fact none of them.the most recent are the headshots.i hope this shows that i am doing other things than not giving a damn about your advices.:D

[artscreen]

loosen up and draw bigger. use your whole arem, not just your wrist. try not to hack out a line in little jabs, use one sweeping line. Try drawing nothing but ellipses and parallel/converging lines with single strokes. Sometimes to warm up I'll do 3-4 pages of typing paper like that.
Draw with both the positive and negative space, looking at the shapes that the negative space makes as well as those the positive makes. That will help with proportions. Dont be afraid to trace, but when you trace, draw through the object, draw the basic constuction forms, not just the contours. Change up your medium. Use a cheap ballpoint pen for a while. Then some crayons. And markers.

Don't get discouraged. You will get better, it just takes a while. You may not even see it yourself. Dont concentrate on doing original concepts yet. You cant walk on the moon until you've flown in a rocket first.

[Carnifex]

Originally posted by artscreen
Try drawing nothing but ellipses and parallel/converging lines with single strokes. Sometimes to warm up I'll do 3-4 pages of typing paper like that.

you mean like some of those little strokes on the previous post?(that one with the dragon-humans)
atm i'm using a 2b pencil for pretty much all of my drawings(except if i do digital).i haven't tried markers yet,but already used charcoal sometimes and am now happily awaiting new acrylics to arrive.
i have the feeling if i get bigger in drawing (with pencil most of all),that i won't be able to make the values correct,which i belive is pretty important for headshots f.ex.

nay,i don't get discouraged.posts like yours motivate me to go on,even though that last sentence sounded pretty well-known to me.;)

oh yeah and thanx for the tip on the dsg empty,helped me pretty much i think.:)

[artscreen]

Originally posted by Carnifex

you mean like some of those little strokes on the previous post?(that one with the dragon-humans)

yeah, something like that, but I'm betting by the fact that those are so wobbly in places that you are doing them slow and probably from your wrist. Lock you wrist and draw with your entire arm, and quickly. Think of how someone bight stir a big pot or turn a horizontal crank. Start moving your arm in a circular motion, keeping it moving before you put the pen down to the paper.
As far as the parallel lines go, take them all the way across the paper, again using your whole arm, as fast as you can put em down. the pick a single point on the page and draw all the lines converging to that point, using the whole sheet.
The ballpoint idea is just a way to keep your perspective different and to work on line quality. then again I was taught in a i.d. class and tend to gravitate more to that than the more fine art style.

[Carnifex]

actually i did these lines pretty fast...i was starting out slow but moved on faster then.somewhere i've a book telling me these kind of things: "start with the warming up,go at whatever speed you think is appropriate,then start a new one.when you think you've got it right,start a new one and draw faster. [...]"
thanx for the tips.

[brandy]

Hey Carnifex, looks pretty good so far.. I'd have to say it would be worth working more loosely from references (anatomy diagrams, photos etc.) so you have a feeling of what the things you're working with look like.. remember.. the most important part of drawing is description, the details and the contours come later.

looks good thus far though, (bear in mind that I'm punching out of my league here), but keep an eye on how shapes are in reality, rather than in your mind or even photos. That way the pictures will come out much better.
[edit] I didn't seem to be able to spell properly, sorry! :c)

[Signature]

Definitely the right things to practice. Just be more careful with the proportions.

The feet look slightly off, the hands are a real problem.
Work bigger as somebody else already wrote.

Take all the time you need to get a good result.

Maybe when you post the next bunch write your own comments.
What errors do you see? What do you think you need to work on ...

What brandy wrote is correct (with the "more loosely ...")
but that doesn't mean "careless".

You have to be even more accurate IMO!

[Carnifex]

thanx,i'll keep that in mind for my next sketching session.:)
as soon as i have time between school,that is;)

[Carnifex]

ok,here we go:
http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/hands.jpg
today's practice was hands(as i didn't use reference for the last ones).
self critiques on:shading.furthermore correct perspective,and bringing out all the little details without messing up the realism.
other critiques welcomed.:)

[eknight]

Hey Carn, I just want to comment on your statement about not having models/time. I find that when my kids and wife are sleeping, they make perfect life models. They tend to lie still and I don't have to pay them anything. They also cause me to try harder because I know what they should look like and whether my sketch represents them accurately. Just a thought if you live with your folks and/or siblings.

Ed

[AnarchyAo2]

Alright Carnifex! I don't know if you can see the improvement in your work since you started the studies, but I think I speak for everyone when i say that we do. Keep on studying anatomy and such. :nana

[AnarchyAo2]

Also, I just read eknight's post. Man, that is freaking wierd. I hope they don't know about that, because I'd be freaked out if I woke up and my dad was just sitting there drawing me.

[Signature]

I really like the big one.

Maybe you can make the outlines thicker than the lines that make up the details.
Most of the fingers are too thin and somehow scary.
The palms of the hands look good!

IMO most of the images should be bigger.

[Carnifex]

thanx for the replies,you really motivate me to go on.
signature: i think i tend to draw the fingers that thin,b/c i myself have pretty long and thin fingers.i will try to work bigger next time.:)

[Carnifex]

'aight,doodled a bit more with the one hand and drew another one from reference(my own in the mirror).i hope i'll achieve a hand to look that good without reference in the next days.
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/hands2.jpg
c&c welcomed if there's anything.:)

[AnarchyAo2]

Yeah great stuff. Keep working on those life drawings. :thumbsup:

[fish~]

nice effort.. you are really improving.

one of the things that helped me early was to stop using pencils and start using the biggest fattest pen i could find and draw big..like 36X24"
It forced me to concentrate on the "big things" since you cant hide them in shading
it really improved my stroke and lineweights too..
though hours upon hours of studio didnt hurt

ps. even though your just doodling be consouse(sp) off your layout in respect to the page and rember "readability"
it might be realistic, but realistic isn't always the best way to get your point accross

[Carnifex]

thanx.i hope i'll have time today to sketch out a different topic and post it here.

[Carnifex]

sorry i couldn't post earlier.drew these things yesterday and didn't have time to scan.
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/arms.jpg
i drew some of those arms from my own in the mirror and some out of my hand with help of the previous mentioned.i purposely tried not to make out the muscles much,because i've been doing that all the time.still i found some i wouldn't have noticed in an anatomy book.ah,the wonders of life drawing.:D

[Carnifex]

finally some new sketches.they're not much,but i couldn't upload more for the moment.
legs
http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/fisite/legs.jpg
feet gotta be practiced seperately.see ya later.