Anime! (huuuge delivery)

[Carnifex]

well...i haven't posted for a long time in any other section than the dsg,so here is some stuff.although i know you don't like anime that much,i thought i'd present that side of my skills too.
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6108.jpg
this is a bit older whereas the first bunny girl was just a test to copy another drawing.it was kinda fun to see that the style got so different although i tried to be exact.
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6106.jpg
not very up-to-date and good either.
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6107.jpg
aswell as this one.
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6109.jpghttp://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6110.jpg
two characters for a story i might do one day.
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6111.jpghttp://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6113.jpg
aswell as these two,the blonde being the main character of the story.
http://www.renderosity.com/photos/ArtistArticle6112.jpg
and finally another character,being the best friend of the blonde.those coloured pieces were all done before the b/w ones,but i still think they're good.
that's all for now folks! hope you like:)

[Pencil Soldier]

:evilbat:

[Carnifex]

which ones especially?:)
thanx for the(small) comment

[Pencil Soldier]

Basicly i mean that most people here consider anime to be evil. :p

Learn to draw from life, and do studies, and youll be accepted more. If you refuse to learn, then polykarbon woudl be a good place to go.

[Carnifex]

oh.i thought you meant them to be badass:(
well then...
bah,i'm already doing enough studies (almost) regularly,but sometimes you gotta take a break;)
i assume you find the proportions way out of hand?

[Pencil Soldier]

Post the studies then. Anime is already out of proportion by definition.

[Crash]

first learn anatomy, the human body THEN simplify.

thats what ive learned anyway.

[foofoo]

judging from your drawings i dun think u have studied enuf...

[Carnifex]

the b/w ones or the coloured?because i drew the coloured ones about one or two years ago when i hadn't even seen an anatomy book from the outside even.:rolleyes:
none of the pieces pleases you eye atleast a bit?:(

[Carnifex]

oh well then...atleast i know now not to post any anime anymore here.:rolleyes:

[AnarchyAo2]

I've had first hand experience with how anime can ruin your drawing skills. But, I also know that if i hadn't got into the whole anime craze then I wouldn't be the artist that I am today, I probably wouldn't be a artist at all.

And for pencil soldier, for you to say:
"Basicly i mean that most people here consider anime to be evil.

Learn to draw from life, and do studies, and youll be accepted more. If you refuse to learn, then polykarbon woudl be a good place to go."

makes you a total hypocrite. Your sitting there preaching about ignorant people when your one yourself. Also, I think its kind of sad how you base your style on what everyone one else thinks is best. I'll spare you my speach about sterotypes and not being so damn cliche.

Carnifex: If you like to draw anime or manga. Go ahead. Some people might not like it, but if they rant on you about it. Just point right to the subject. "Anime! (huuuge delivery)" If you don't like anime don't come in. Simple! Right?

Okay, now for the drawings. You have talent, no doubt. I do think you need some anatomy studies, it can only make you a better anime artist. I think you said somewhere that you've been doing studies. Well, I don't think you are, or if you are, your not applying them. I can tell because your faces are always in either 1 of 3 postitions. 3/4 left, 3/4 right, and profile. You need to learn more postitions and proportions. Go to "The Middle Class" on this forum. I think they have a list of all their favorite anatomy books and stuff.

Also, go to the reference part of the site. Pick out a picture you like and draw it. Or transfer it into a anime style, and then post it. That way you have something to compare your drawing to. And we can help you further by spotting your flaws easier.

[Miau]

hi carnifex
well i think you ve heard this already :) i like the expressions on the faces, they looks really cool ...
..jep anatmony and foreshortening - but dont give up!
im sure you get better everyday you study.

miau

[Carnifex]

thanx for the positive crits:)
which pictures are the most significants iyo?i mean on foreshortning gone wrong etc.or do i just draw the noses too longs for your taste?
is anyone able to make a quick paintover on one of the faces to illustrate the points approximately?thanx:)

[alex_86]

DOOD, MY MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE EVER TO YOU AND ANY ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN DRAWING!!!

Never EVER start with the simple stuff EVER!!! You absolutely MUST learn the complicated stuff first. Do not start with simple line art and/or anime it will ruin your drawing, and I would know cause I went about it the wrong way, thinking that i wouldnt need to draw realistically to be able to improve. On the contrary realistic style drawing actually helps with cartooning and simple line drawings like the ones used in anime.

Instead of drawing this stuff that u have drawn I would recomend you to get a book called "An Atlas of Anatomy for Artists" it is kickass (or any other GOOD anatomy book), and learn how to draw AND shade every position of every muscle in the body, and the entire body as a whole. Then use referrence to find out how everything looks when the skin is over the muscles (this is very important step).

Also dont forget, to let your hand flow freely; dont constrain your lines and things will look much more natural.

LAST THING: A lot of your fully colored characters aren't at all balanced on their two feet. Study how the human body compensates for leaning, and how it reacts to falling and etc...

Thats about all so g'luck

[Mr. Teatime]

i tried anime, and i suck at it and now idont like it and am back to sucking at normal drawing. the color ones arent that good (better than mine though) and some of the bw ones show skill.

[Signature]

I think I wrote that some time ago in the master of evil thingie thread and I write it again as a reaction to meDrawUC's post.
I think generally it is a bad idea to start learning to draw with anatomy.
In ateliers people start with bargue drawings to learn how to see properly afaik.
You can also draw simple things from life. But anatomy studies are too advanced when you are starting out IMO.

This is not a critique for Carnifex ... i know he is not just starting out.
It is just a reaction as I mentioned already.

A suggestion for Carnifex:
Maybe you should really think about posting in a different community.
I guess your attitude differs from the average attitude here.
This is not meant as a flame ... it is not even a bad thing.

I'm pretty much with Pencil Soldier ... but he makes it sound a little harsh.
If you refuse to learn, then polykarbon would be a good place to go
Maybe:
"if you don't like theory and don't want to use reference,"
is less extreme.

Hope that came across right ...

[Pencil Soldier]

I agree, i couldve said it nicer. Its jsut when i try to help people on polykarbon they ignore me so i guess it was just a little bit of frustration leaking through. Just a little mind you ;).

[alex_86]

I think both drawing from referrence and from memory using your knowledge of anatomy are very important. What I was trying to stress is 'not to start out with line drawings', every drawing you do should be as complex as you can make it. At least when you are just starting out in a realistic style. later once you have mastered shading and structure you can simplify all you want. I think you'll find you are somehow better at drawing Anime all the sudden.

[Carnifex]

Originally posted by Signature


A suggestion for Carnifex:
Maybe you should really think about posting in a different community.
I guess your attitude differs from the average attitude here.
This is not meant as a flame ... it is not even a bad thing.


now this confuses me a bit:confused: what attitude do most of the people have here,and what is my kind of attitude?:)
and i don't know if someone already noticed it,but i think i said earlier that i've already been doing studies on anatomy and shading and i didn't start with anime at all.reapeat:i didn't start drawing with anime
and again as said the coloured ones are from a time where i didn't even know how an anatomy book looks from the outside,so that may be an important factor too.aight and plz tell me which ones show skill,will you?:)
thanx for the crits,i think i never got so many replies on one thread:D

[AnarchyAo2]

I don't think he mean't that you as a person should go to another community. I think mean't that maybe you should post your anime works on another site more devoted to that style (Yeah, its true, but I don't agree with it). Because, this site is more devoted to professional conceptual artist or aspiring professionals and fine arts. As opposed to anime/manga.

I can't really say what he mean't but my advice to you is to post your anime works on a site more devoted to that style. You know, where it will be better apprectiated. Because, if your gonna keep posting it here you just gonna get flamed and belittled, and thats not going to do you any good.

[Carnifex]

sorry Jens,i think you missunderstood me now,i meant which ones of mine show skill:D
because someone said that some show skill.so i'm asking myself which ones.
and i know both of these artists already.thanx anyway:D
and thank you AnarchyAo2,now i know what you mean by attitude.
well then...newer sketches with other things than anime will soon follow!:D

[Signature]

Ok my take on the potential comments.
http://www.andyart.de/images/overpaints/carnifex.jpg

Positive is where the images differ ... good ideas for different concepts.
Negative is what they have in common. The way they are constructed ...
the way noses and eyes are drawn ...
The problem is not just that the proportions are off.

I guess if you'd try to work bigger (for example fill a page with 4 faces) you would run into problems with the way you work.

From the other thread:
http://www.andyart.de/images/overpaints/carnifex2.jpg
The left image here is one that I liked.
There are some things that are not quite right but it has a great 3-dimensional feel to it ... it is an interesting angle and so on.
The right one has potential. This is one of the images you could have worked on more.
Fixing the eyes for example.
And the hair seems more like a texture (as opposed to a form) on the head

And something else about the attitude.
It seems as if you don't want to do simpler things.
Working on the basics.
A problem is that I disagree with meDrawUC 100%.
I think you shouldn't do complex things.
I'd try to learn a thing at a time.
For what you want to do you need a REAL good foundation if you want to do it properly.

The "remembering a feeling" one for example ...
there is soo much that you have to worry about to get it right.
Lines, proportions, values/proper shading, composition, perspective, originality, expression ...

And if you want people here to appreciate your art most of those things should be coherent and some have to be amazing.

In other communities people are more like:
"if I can tell it is a face ... then it is a good face."
"If they don't look completely identical ... then there is diversity."

Maybe that would be more the community you are looking for!?

The comment:
none of the pieces pleases you eye at least a bit?suggests yes.

That comment:
which pictures are the most significants iyo?i mean on foreshortning gone wrong etc.or do i just draw the noses too longs for your taste?sounds more like a conceptart attitude

You could post more refined/serious studies at Conceptart
http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/tut_learn.php ...

and for-fun-only-stuff at other communities and in the DSG.

[Carnifex]

thanx for the input signature,i will see what i can do.now the only thing that bugs me further is the proportional aspect of the faces.i know they don't look at least realistic,but that's an aspect of anime it doesn't look like everything else.if i look at coros anime it's *just* that he draws smaller eyes and adds nostrils.is it that? is it that what matters?or is it the relationship of the different face parts to each other? i mean such as chin to forehead.and do you mean i should try to achieve more that each character has a completely different face then the other?should i variate eye and nose size,mouth and head or what?thanx in advance.

[EVIL]

I started with very complicated and realistical stuff wich really paid off now I am drawing more cartoon style stuff.

[Jebus]

Ok I'm probably asking a very dumb question here. What about guys like Feng, and the whole Japanese/Korean game industry. They draw (kind of) anime style, and are good concept artists. Or are they just exceptions. I thought that concept art was all about the concept, not the way you draw it, it's how you want to make clear your concept to your viewer.

But I agree that if you want to be a good anime artist, you have to study at least the basics of normal anatomy. If I compare my work from a week back with my work now, I have made good progress. With the help of anatomy.

[mtomczek]

Small note, you do realize that Feng isnt in the Japanese/Korean game industry right? and he mostly does environments and vehicles, with limited figure work, that has his own twist, but is very focused on proper anatomy. Unlike the highly stylized anime/manga segments like dragonball or sailormoon. There is alot of anime that doesnt have the "anime" cliche styling to it.

[Signature]

I thought that concept art was all about the concept, not the way you draw it, it's how you want to make clear your concept to your viewer.
Feng, Justin Kaufman, Bengal and so on all are able to push the concepts they come up with.
There were good threads that show how hard it is to convince with concepts.
People here were not convinced.
Maybe just look at the Thunderdome stuff ... great concepts still get crits.
If a concept can be improved you should try to make it better.

Carnifex:
I can't explain the difference ... but it is not just that the eyes are smaller and that there are nostrils.
The way your heads are constructed makes them look like thousands of beginner's anime faces.
The problem is not that anime looks different than the real thing.
It is that most anime looks the same.
Look at the daily sketchbooks and ask yourself what the difference is between art that people love and art that hardly gets comments.

If you just keep drawing those 2-minute faces you won't get past that stage.
The heads from photos are a step in the right direction.
It will help with anime later as people already mentioned.

As I wrote earlier things you should try are spending more time, working bigger/adding more detail and trying new things in some of them.
If you work bigger you have to make it work by varying line weight, adding details and so on.

I know I too did not get why people didn't like the first images that I posted.
The proportions were ok, color palette not horrible
(at least to me at that time ... and those weren't the crits)
But the images were still complete crap. I can't even say why.

Maybe this will make sense to you later ... maybe not.
But many artists wrote that they got mean crits when they started ...
and many thought that they needed to hear it.

[talmir]

I started with anime and sucked pretty bad at it. The problem I see with anime in general is that its too limited.. there are only so many cool hairdos, and there are only so many innocent expressions and you have a choice between three different eyes, whoop dee doo.

But it's still an artform, and as such I am in favor of it.

The correct way to learn how to draw in my humble opinion is to sink yourself into everything.. dont stay too focused on anime or you'll limit yourself.. dont stay too focused on pencils and you limit yourself.. dont stay too focused on any one thing or, as before.. you'll limit yourself. And trying everything out is a good way to develop style.

[S51]

In general, I don't think terribly much of certain types of anime (the really annoying Pokemon-type crap). I don't see anything wrong with drawing anime characters, but perhaps you could take a more interesting approach in doing it. Cowboy Bebop, for example, has characters that are at the same time very stylized and perhaps closer to real life than most other anime characters. Naturally the proportions are still wildly off, but that's not really the point. I supppose the message behind my blathering is don't limit yourself to anime. Try everything at least once, then decide you want to devote yourself to anime.

[Carnifex]

wow,i think i really never got so many crits on my work! thanx alot!:D
sooo...i'm not going to devote myself entirely to anime,there're somehow too many limits on the face part(as someone earlier also said).yes,i find that myself too.still,i think it's interesting to also experience that kind of stuff.when everyone does realistic drawing and stuff,why not try something different for instance? you can ever go back.and i'm doing it also.i sure don't stay too long on anime,but every now and then i draw it to see if i'm still able to do it.even if it isn't convincing much,it's still something new to experience every time.that i find interesting.
drawing from life...it sure is necessary for the beginner,but i have often said and will continue to say,that i don't feel myself as a beginner.even if i still have to learn much about painting,i think i'm quarterway on the road of getting a serious artist.i don't mean to rant now,but i still haven't experienced many other painting materials than pencil,which i find not too good now.but that's a personal problem which needn't be told to you actually.
so,now i've run out of words,but i'm glad i caused that much attention sometime too.:D
thanx for all the crits,i will work hard to get your points into my paintings.peace:chug:

[Signature]

I still see a not so good attitude there. :(
You will ALWAYS have to work on the basics.
Drawing from life is not something you have to do a few times to become an artist.

Maybe read fredflickstones reply to Alex Gering's question in this thread:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9812

I have yet to see serious steps in the right direction from you.
You ignore the important points people bring up.

Btw at Deviantart you can look for stock photography as reference.
Some of the photographers just want a note ...
some want to see what you do with the image ...
some just allow you to use their images for work you submit at Deviantart.
Just read the rules.
http://stockart.deviantart.com/women/

[Carnifex]

thanx for the link signature...if i don't sound convined or convincing enough now,it's probably b/c my tablet is f*cking it up for me.the damn pencil won't work.ok,i'll really try hard to do studies as often as i can...i know i gotta practice bodies,coz i have practiced heads too much and neglected the bodies.believe it or not.in former times i used to just draw a head and put it onto some cubic things(mostly an evening suit) without the slightest perspective,so drawing faces isn't too hard for me at this stage(except for shading sometimes and to let them look realistic).
my attitude is my attitude.it will take some time to change it.thanx.:)

[talmir]

Maybe you should try charcoal :) I saw you mentioned that pencil is annoying to you. I have just recently started doing quick sketches with charcoal (chek my sketchbook here on conceptart) and my hand feels like its gliding above the paper. I love it... Just waiting to get some A2 paper so I can do BIG drawings :D anywho.. keep it up. Great attitude I see.

[Carnifex]

thanx talmir:)
well,it's not exactly that i'm annoyed by pencils now,just that i want to try some new materials.the thing bugging me most is that i haven't done too much in colour yet(which isn't too good to do with a pencil/colour pencils).recently i tried acrylics in school and am pretty keen on buying ones for myself at home.(they're great to use imo)then i'll also be able to work at a larger scale.imo it's almost impossible to work at small scale with acrylics.atleast it must be larger than a3 for further works i think.will see if i'll be able to present something then.:)

[MooingCow]

Im new here, and it took me like an hour to read over everything that has been said. I usually goto Penciljack but was recomended to go here by a friend. Carnifex... you're far from quarter way from being a professional artist. You're like 3/2136781 the way there. At least that's the attitude you gota have. I dont mean to be harsh but you're sitting on a high branch right now when you shouldn't be.

I'd have to disagree with whoever said to be very detailed with everything you do as a beginner. That's horribley ignorant. Burne Hogarth is the way to go. If you go too detailed too early, you'll miss out on too much from trying to understand everything early on. You can't understand the flexors and extensors of the lower leg if you can't draw the leg to begin with. And you shouldn't go so damn detailed so early. If you spend 10 hours drawing one crappy detailed picture... you didn't improve. If you spend 10 hours drawing a crap ton of gesture studies, then you're getting somewhere.

Get away from anime before you seriously decide to do anymore drawing. There is no such thing as "enough studying." That's a cop out.

You gota learn to crawl before you can run.

[Carnifex]

well,thanx again for the input,but as i said earlier i'm not thinking about going into anime seriously because i know it's got too much flaws for me.
and my way of doing something isn't,as you maybe believe,doing one hour a detailed but uselessly wrong picture,but to do many many small crappy things to then do a detailed picture now and then.hope i stated that clear for once.:)

[DownSindromeMan]

I posted a pretty bad picture on a different forum and the best comment I got was something along the lines of "learn to draw real people before drawing cartoony people." I'm still working on it, but it helps a TON.

[darak]

Because, this site is more devoted to professional conceptual artist or aspiring professionals and fine arts. As opposed to anime/manga.

I almost got through this thread without registering and everything to debate what people are saying bout anime and stuff...then got to that one and i just had to reply....granted its not the mona lisa, but if it were then there'd be no originality with anything. and i understand that each art style has its own "habitat" that it thrives in, realistic art thrives places like this site, or museums or whatnot, and anime would thrive at other sites or at conventions....and i also respect others like and dislikes and wish not to flame you or anyone here...mearly would like you to clearify that statement a bit because it sounds like you are saying anime and manga isn't a professional style of art?....

[WildSpruceMoose]

I have this discussion often with people in real life. If you learn anime before you learn the basics of art it is anime. Great you copied someone else's "AWSEOMESTEST!!11" character ever. If you learn the basics of art and then decide to simplify your style down and down and down again so that it is manga, you will bring something new to it. Maybe you wanted a simplified style so you could experiment with colours, shadows etc. Maybe you simplified it because you are constantly doing sequential art and time is a factor.

One who draws anime with concepts of anatomy and colour theory will create great work. One who draws anime because they love anime will be able to copy someone else's work. This is the conclusion I've came to with several different people talking about the same topic.

[darak]

while i do agree with you about some points here because they reflect my ability (for the most part) when i first started i drew pokemon from a book i had, they came out great and i take as much pride in them as all my others...my first anime person was my own, while not the best it came out quite good (as far as first time goes) the only thing i "helped" myself with was the eyes, which i used one of the magic creatures from card capture sakura, the second one i did was a little girl and she was my first unique drawing with the exception again of postion with eyes and what not, i just used a how to book of mine for help....i haven't drawn any anime since with the exception of a couple goku's and part of a gohan, i did then go and create my own little fan fic comic based on dbz and a charactor of my own, it was stick figure with big hair lol, i was mainly going for humor with it, then one other strip that was to be published in the school paper that never happened....

but anyhoo...i also disagree that drawing anime that you're just copying someone else...again i use me as an example...with the exception of the eyes my first drawings were unique (i only copied pokemon...and that seemed to help me develope more of my own technique i think....)

another example is Akira Toriyama, he is quite possibly the most famous anime artist, he also has one of the most reconizable technics, for those that don't know him, or don't reconize the name, Akira Toriyama created Dragon Ball (his most famous title) but also has others, i don't know them right off hand, i do know he drew the animations for the Chrono trigger/chross series. I read an article/interview of him and he was telling them of how he became an artist, he was telling them that he'd draw everything he say, cars, trees, people, others art work, he said that copying others helped in his artistic development, and in the end as i stated before, he has one of the most unique and famous styles...and believe it or not, but Akira toriyama encourages people to copy him and whoever and whatever else they can cause he believe it helps develop the artist and skills before developing the art style itself.

did you also notice that this post was one long sentence o.O lol

[darak]

If you learn the basics of art and then decide to simplify your style down and down and down again so that it is manga

I'd like to clairfy that, manga is NOT the simplification of anime by any means...anime is just short for Japanese animation (aka japanese cartoons), manga is the "comic book" version of anime, and infact not always does manga retell what the anime does, for example cowboy bebop manga tells different stories than the show.

[Jebus]

Hyung-Tae Kim also started in plain old manga. Look where he is now. ( of course he has done studies and shit, just to show that is does'nt forever ruins your style or something)

[WildSpruceMoose]

I was using manga as a synonym for anime. I'll just say it again. Anime created by an artist that learned the basics first is very noticeable and normally very good. Anime created by an artiste who is not interested in art, but of appearing to be interested in art is irritating.

While I was at a portfolio interview with colleges this past year I witnessed some henious acts of anime that has changed my view on it forever. A group of 8 anime artistes sitting down in a circle showing each other anime and only exclaiming "WOW TAHT IS TEH AWESOME!111"(this has been translated to typing they didn't actually talk exactly like that.
Anyway I'm a huge eavesdropper and if I may add very good at it too =D I keep hearing them all talking about how awesome anime is and how they only draw anime blah blah. Then one says to the group "Yeah, I love anime, and hate people who draw realistically. I mean sure they can draw real but they sure can't do anime."
Just a little anecdote. It certainly made me fall over. Now, I once drew some anime. I visited a ezboard forum for concept art, then another site www.conceptdesignforum.com, then I got a link to here. I visited. Let me tell you the exact second I stopped drawing anime and started actually LEARNING art: when I looked at the galleries. This site has had profound influence on me and I thank the people who started it up.

Final summation: drawing anime extensively before you have a good grasp of the basics is horrible at stunting artistic growth.

P.S. If my posts on anime have offended anyone I apologize. I can't really do much more than that.