How To Get To Heaven When You Die (NOW WITH IMPROVED POLL!)

[xfrodobagginsx]

ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN?

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

This all began with the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect, there was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain which this world sees is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross for you:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Even if we lie one time, the punishment is hell, which is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already committed a sin which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the president can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die.

3. If you will confess to Jesus Christ that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, accept Him as Lord and Savior and believe in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead you will be saved.

Joh 1:12 Joh 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name”
Ro 10:9,10 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.."
You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus and asking Him to forgive you for your sins and save you. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven if they do these things, but the bible says that there is only one way to heaven and that is through receiving what Jesus Christ did on the cross for you.

Will you do that today? If you will, you can be 100% sure that you will go to heaven when you die.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED ON THE CROSS AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD FOR YOUR SINS?

ARE YOU WILLING TO TURN TO JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION?

4. If you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior please humble yourself before God and pray this prayer to Him from your heart:

"Dear LORD JESUS, I believe that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead for my sins. I ask you to come into my heart and forgive me for my sins, save me, take me to be with You when I die. I now receive You as my Lord and Savior. Thank You for saving me. In Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you prayed that prayer to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.

Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

[luverly_marie]

Dear Jesus,

Please stop these retards from spamming in my interwebz.

Amen.

[Mirana]

x=Christ, so xfrodobagginsx="Christ(x2)frodobaggins"?? I KNEW IT.

(Jesus freaks are so cute.)

[Volchiha]

No, sorry, I have already accepted Satan as my lord, as well as several pantheons of pagan idols and for shits and giggles buddha.

Guess that not only makes me a heathen, but one on a massive scale, too! Looks like it's a one way trip to hell for me.

[kab]

Cyber-preaching... religion has gone viral :p

[Hyskoa]

If I die, the universe will explode in a cloud of rationality.

[Ilaekae]

Kiss my ass, xfrodobagginsx, and take your narrow-minded patriarchal bull-shit somewhere else.

Any attempt to convert someone here, or anywhere else that is a secular forum, is an insult to the intelligence of the other posters. You are stating that everyone here must agree with you or they're wrong, too stupid to believe only what you do, or are somehow less than you because of their beliefs. Fuck you, and fuck the retarded bull you rode in on...

[Dave_]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZSvTojTJq0

You can't get a more antichrist forum then this, maybe satan-forums, but hardly a difference ;D

[mehran]

http://www.intermixi.com/images/jokermixi2.jpg
and here... we.... go

again

[Jacob Kobryn]

DHu86Gr2RC8



p.s.
... not the best song off the album.

[Jacob Kobryn]

pps
a CAer did the album art...

[Jacob Kobryn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZSvTojTJq0

You can't get a more antichrist forum then this, maybe satan-forums, but hardly a difference ;D

There's way more fuckin anti-christ... it's called Black Metal. Ever heard The Return... by Bathory?

[Costau D]

ElGarlic: Spending your life waiting for the messiah to come save the world is like waiting around for the straight piece to come in Tetris.

ElGarlic: Even if it comes, by that time you've accumulated a mountain of shit so high that you're fucked no matter what you do.

[Elwell]

Edited the poll :devil:

[Atlantis]

Kiss my ass, xfrodobagginsx, and take your narrow-minded patriarchal bull-shit somewhere else.


Haha, (s)he's only trying to help us. I can't help but like proselytizers; anyone who wants to save my soul is at least a nice person.

[Mirana]

anyone who wants to save my soul is at least a nice person.

Methinks it's less about saving your soul and more about racking up some GOD POINTS.

[Volchiha]

I love this site, so much. <3

[Elwell]

anyone who wants to save my soul is at least a nice person.
Yeah, that Torquemada, what a sweetie.

[Costau D]

I wish I was Christian. :(

[Atlantis]

Methinks it's less about saving your soul and more about racking up some GOD POINTS.

I dunno, I've known a lot of Christians who I think genuinely cared about others and didn't want them to burn forever.

Yeah, that Torquemada, what a sweetie.

Well that's an interesting thought. If you knew that there was a hell where an unbeliever would be tortured for all eternity, and you thought you could save them by torturing them just a little in comparison, would you? By Christian logic, the Inquisition was doing good; the inquisitors may have really believed they were doing god's work.

Or maybe they were just sadists; that's possible too.

(For the record, I'm an atheist.)

[Jacob Kobryn]

pps
a CAer did the album art...

ppps

He won a COW once.

pppps

YT makes the audio quality shit...

[Costau D]

Actually what I was Taught in school (went to catholic school for 8 years), was to be like Jesus and Live by example. The key to it was only opening doors through your actions, and not preaching... Leave it up to the person to save himself because thats the only person who can. It's about inspiring people, not nagging them or scaring the shit out of them with the prospects of going to hell. It's for a better life over all not just so you can get brownie points for going to heaven. Let people live their lives...

Ofcourse Catholic school made me agnostic.

[Jasonwclark]

If you prayed that prayer to God, and meant it with all of your heart, you are now a child of God and will go to heaven when you die.

Or you could do this (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=376573587) instead. :)

[Grafguy]

so its off to the gay bathhouse with him :D

[Adam Synapse]

Don't you think you being a little harsh? Sure, he had no right to try and turn us over to his beliefs but in the end they are his beliefs. What right have we to step or belittle them. Besides its not like he's hurting anyone.

[Craig D]

Adam
This is an art forum. This person joined CA only for the purpose of religious conversion or whatever you'd like to label it as. As you can see it is a touchy issue.
The person had no interest in the betterment of this community,
only in furthering his own outside agenda.

[Atlantis]

It's about inspiring people, not nagging them or scaring the shit out of them with the prospects of going to hell. It's for a better life over all not just so you can get brownie points for going to heaven. Let people live their lives...



Sounds nice in theory, but it's not possible. The concept of hell is as integral to Christianity as the concept of Christ; without one, the other is meaningless. At least for real Christianity as taught from the Bible.

That's funny they taught you that in Catholic school; I always thought Catholics were the most hard-core hell-believers there were. This whole "it's not about scaring people" must be a more recent idea.

[Equality72521]

time to beat a dead horse!!!

People like this fella give a whole religion a bad name, just like one act of terrorism gave the entire nation of Islam/entire Middle East a bad name. (S)he thinks an act like this would get people to think about their lives, when in fact, everyone will turn against them. And, taking Scripture out of context doesn't help his/her cause either. If someone does believe in the Scriptures, one must keep in mind it was written in letters, not verse by verse. The Scriptures are to be taken in as a whole, not just by a sentence. That's how we get those TV preachers, preaching only of God's gift of Wealth to those who only need to call in for a prayer and donation.

This is not only offensive to non-believers, but also those who do.

2 cents

My guess would be that this should be closed before things get outta hand

[kab]

I highly doubt he was ever going to return, if he was even a real person and not some preach-bot, a single hit and run morality-lecture, "follow my beliefs or you´re fucked"...

[Atlantis]

I highly doubt he was ever going to return, if he was even a real person and not some preach-bot, a single hit and run morality-lecture, "follow my beliefs or you´re fucked"...

Irrelevant. This is the Internet; we're obligated to seize any and every opportunity to argue about religion. :sungod:

[Costau D]

Sounds nice in theory, but it's not possible. The concept of hell is as integral to Christianity as the concept of Christ; without one, the other is meaningless. At least for real Christianity as taught from the Bible.

That's funny they taught you that in Catholic school; I always thought Catholics were the most hard-core hell-believers there were. This whole "it's not about scaring people" must be a more recent idea.


Nah, that's called pigeon holing. Hell is not the focus of Christianity. Odd I know coming from the popular stereotypical loud mouthed view of what a catholic is, but many understand there is more to living than religion. It's all about becoming a better person GENUINELY.

There's a lot I would like to say on this topic, but I don't feel like getting into this.

Like any institution ran by humans, it will have its problems and corruption of power. But, the under lying philosophy behind it all is usually still the good thing about it. Things get taken out of context, and skewed for the wrong purposes. We are all human, and we have to try and make this place as good as we can each day by living through example. It's not about avoiding reality of the situation. When i was younger I always believed whether a person was good or not determined their own outcome in life and after death whether or not they were Christian.

The whole concept of negative and positive, has been observed by humans for years and takes place in all religion.

[Atlantis]

Nah, that's called pigeon holing. Hell is not the focus of Christianity.

I always thought Christians viewed Christ as the savior of humanity; what's the point of having a savior if you don't need saving? Without a hell where the sinners are doomed to go, what was the point of Christ's sacrifice?

I like your version of Christianity better than the others already.

Odd I know coming from the popular stereotypical loud mouthed view of what a catholic is, but many understand there is more to living than religion. It's all about becoming a better person GENUINELY.

Yeah, I've known a lot of Christians to whom that was true.

Like any institution ran by humans, it will have its problems and corruption of power. But, the under lying philosophy behind it all is usually still the good thing about it. Things get taken out of context, and skewed for the wrong purposes.

Even as a non-Christian, I agree 100%. Some of Christ's teachings are extraordinary; 'Let he who has never sinned cast the first stone' being an example.

There's a lot I would like to say on this topic, but I don't feel like getting into this.

Dude, nothing bad ever came from arguing religion. Don't worry.

[kab]

Arguing on the internet makes you stupid, but it´s soo worth it =p

Religions focus on damnation because for most people, the possibility of reward isn´t as strong a motivation as the fear of punishment. Without the threat of hell, people simply wouldn´t give a shit =p

[Oden]

oh come oooon people, swarming insects is way worse than a gay bathhouse.
even the most hardcore bible-thumper would probably be down with some bathhouse action after ~1000 years of no wimminz, let alone an eternity.

[kab]

You make an excellent point...

[c-hsu-run]

I know one way to get to heaven when I die: Put my coffin in a rocket and shoot it up to space.

Like far out.

Well, maybe towards the direction of the sun. I'd dig that. :]

[Rist]

Everyone has there own believes to why they exist. Why should people from a major cult try and persuade others? Oh wait! That might be why they became a major cult in the first place!

Personally I do not believe that there is a tranquil heaven when you die, I believe in fate. Whatever happens, happens, why worry? Life is for the living, death is for the dead. Let the dead deal with death.

[D.Labruyere]

Sounds nice in theory, but it's not possible. The concept of hell is as integral to Christianity as the concept of Christ; without one, the other is meaningless. At least for real Christianity as taught from the Bible.




WRONG :nohope:

I have no intention in starting an argument at all, and I'm no believer at all but a lot of my friends are theologists and I have to say this:

- No they don't believe in the concept of hell
- No it is not an integral part of Christianity
- Since it is not an integral part of Christianity, you can't say that the other is meaningless. The thought that for every positive thing has to be a negative thing, is not only a medieval way of thinking, but also 'countered' by tons of theologians.
- What the hell is 'real Christianity'?
- What the hell do you mean with 'taught by the Bible'? There are probably more interpretations on the Bible then there are pages in it.

[Atlantis]

WRONG :nohope:

I have no intention in starting an argument at all,

Ha. Why does everybody feel the need to say that just before they start arguing? :yawn: Please note, I intend to argue, now.

But we've already argued all that, D.Labruyere, and I believe I remember your position, which was that all the ugliness in the holy texts can rendered moot if one chooses to "interpret" it out of their personal belief system. You'll recall my position, which was that that is intellectual cowardice and a cop-out; that one must take the good with the bad where religion is concerned.

All the interpretation in the world doesn't change the fact that Jesus warned of Hell; the place where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, the outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth. There are something like 150 references to Hell in the New Testament. Don't tell me Christianity and Hell can be separated; I was born in the Bible Belt, raised in a fundamentalist church, and I know the scriptures. You say the word "interpret" when you should be saying "ignore."

As far as your friends being theologians, I don't think you enhance your position by mentioning that at every turn. Theologians are deluded apologists who want desperately to believe the lie, and so construct convoluted explanations for what any child could see is bullshit, or try to remake the religion into something they find more palatable by "interpreting" out the ugly parts. I respect reason, not wishful thinking, so spare me the arguments of theologians.

[loveandasandwich]

jesus is a friend of mine

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[Robert.B]

GF3wagWwHjM


joEAb_y7ZYA


zzz0YVEgT5U


Lhfu84AONf8

[rattsang]

right now i'm trying to sort out my life i'll sort out my death when im dead.

[ChaoticKnight]

I don't see anything bad about this either.

I was raised as a Christian, and we are taught that we should explain to people what Christ did for us. After that, it is indeed up to the individual to decide for himself. There's no "God points" in this because the whole point of it is that without Christ, we wouldn't get to heaven on our own actions.

As for being angry that he's sharing, I recall an Muslim person posting in a thread not too long ago with scriptures from the Koran, and people thanked and praised him for putting it up. So someone putting up a similar thing on the subject of Christianity gets belittled, banned, and repeatedly flamed on this thread for it?

Sorry guys, but lately because of all the hatred surrounding current events and now this I personally am feeling extremely alienated on these forums.
What would you guys do if I posted a thread about/for Christian artists in the lounge? Would that be belittled as well? I was raised to be a Christian, so yes I believe for/against the opposite of what most of you guys do, but in telling people that's wrong, its also telling me that what I believe is wrong, and therefore rises the issue of hypocrisy.

I joined this community because yes, it's all about the art here, but I joined for like-minded people to connect with as well. I read an awful lot in the Lounge though that keeps me from connecting too much.

I know the response I'm going to get. "Take a break from the Lounge". Ok then, see ya'll later. Now lets see how badly flamed I'm going to get for this.

[Crawley]

chaotic knight: i have been a Christian for pretty much as long as i can remember. and i have been on this forum for over 5 years now, i don't spend a whole lot of time in the lounge, but i've never really felt isolated or belittled here. i remember the first time i posted some "cute" art here, i was trying to get a greeting cards job and working on my kid stuff. i was scared i would be run out since there is so much kick ass, more adult leaning stuff here. but i got more possitive responce from that than anything i've posted here. now i do think the way that the poll was changed into such a personal attack is imature and inapropriate, i didn't see the origional poll but if it was found offensive, perhaps it could have been removed or made more inclusive like adding options like ... i will cease to exist, i will reincarnate, i will become one with the universe, etc. to make it less "narrow minded" instead of making the funniest choice to be in a gay bathhouse. but i understand why this guy got heat. first and formost this is an art site and i think you build credibility here by trying to improve your art. looking at your rating i would assume if you were to broach the subject of religion in a bit of a less confrontational way people would give you more respect. this was his first post! which makes one believe that he cares nothing about the people here or what they are interested in.
i wouldn't shy away from posting "Christian art here" if you want to do art on christian themes. be who you are, just don't shove it in anybodies face. and if you started a thread for "Christian artists" i wouldn't think that would be a huge problem, i've considered starting a thread for bipolar artists. there are many different affinity groups. everybody puts faith in something. i put faith in my van this morning to get me to work. if you are an athiest you believe there's no god. anyway, just wanted to put in 2 cents.

[Elwell]

Sorry guys, but lately because of all the hatred surrounding current events and now this I personally am feeling extremely alienated on these forums.
What would you guys do if I posted a thread about/for Christian artists in the lounge? Would that be belittled as well? I was raised to be a Christian, so yes I believe for/against the opposite of what most of you guys do, but in telling people that's wrong, its also telling me that what I believe is wrong, and therefore rises the issue of hypocrisy.

It's offensive because it's spam, that's all.
Christians, and those with any other beliefs, have been, are, and will continue to be welcome to post artwork and discussion threads relating to and promoting those beliefs.
But spammers will be banned, deleted, and occasionally mocked mercilessly.

[Demo]

although I know it was spam I really am kind of dissapointed in how some of the CA`ers jumped on it i mean as artist are we not supposed to be more open minded to others ideas and theories, it just kind of seems like a lot of people jumped on this guys back for posting religion, spam with out even careing weather it was spam or not just kind of wanted an oppritunity to thrash someones religion. just my 2 cents im kind of intrested where this thread goes now though it seemes to have opend a can of worms in essence what he did is working.

[Crawley]

i do think the question of what happens to you after you die is a ligitimate line of disscussion. as a christian i've always had a hard time with the concept of "turn or burn" i have a really hard time understanding the logic of God creating a system where most of the people who ever lived would be tortured for eternity. how am i supposed to enjoy heaven if i know that i have friends and loved ones burning next door? never made sense to me at all.

[Atlantis]

It's offensive because it's spam, that's all.


People ignore the WoW gold threads; this one got an angry response. So it's more than just people being offended by spam. I haven't seen a response this hostile since a Neo-Nazi posted a spam thread. I'm mystified why someone trying, in a harmless way, to make your life better warrants anger.

Chaotic Knight made an interesting point; I wonder if a Muslim proselytizing on this board would get the same outcry? I somehow doubt it; probably everyone would be afraid of appearing intolerant.

[Alex Chow]

This doesn't seem like what Frodo Baggins would say at all...

[Elwell]

Sounds nice in theory, but it's not possible. The concept of hell is as integral to Christianity as the concept of Christ; without one, the other is meaningless. At least for real Christianity as taught from the Bible.

Debatable.
"Real Christianity" is a fuzzy concept at best, especially if one looks into the history of the early church.
For an overview of the different concepts of hell within Christian denominations, see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christian_beliefs).
Here is a book (http://www.amazon.com/History-Hell-Alice-K-Turner/dp/0156001373) and a radio program (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20061221.shtml) on the history of hell.
For an example of Christianity without hell (and resultant controversy), see Carlton Pearson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Pearson) (or listen to the TAL story here (http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=304)).

[Jason Rainville]

I wonder if a Muslim proselytizing on this board would get the same outcry? I somehow doubt it; probably everyone would be afraid of appearing intolerant.

Nope, I'd be in there voicing my opinion. I actually got slapped a while ago here (over the internet) when I posted my anti-islam views. Note that it isn't anti muslim views, since people are well... people, and can be as good/bad as they want to be...

At any rate, there's plenty of nose-bleeding responses to religionish threads, and a lot of the reaction is disproportionate, with the exception of the following:

- Thinking that your belief can outdo the combined efforts of the worlds most learned men and women.
- Thinking that whatever is written in your holy book of choice is inerrant and should be followed as closely as possible, contrary to basic human compassion and logic.

In the case of those two issues above, I don't care how many new holes the poster or his beliefs are given throughout the course of the thread, ideas like those are dangerous.

Other than that, there's really no point in outright ridicule. Debate, sure, if it's mutually accepted and mature, but it's pretty immature to go after somone's beliefs when it either isn't expected (IE dragged out from another discussion) or unwarranted (like if it's a liberal Christian who is ok with evo and just wants to live and let live)

G.Owen regularly (and by regularly I mean exclusively) posts Christian art and he's always welcomed with critiques about the technique used and not the subject matter. I remember giving him a supporting post talking about how it's ok to like Jesus art even if you're not a Christian (I do) Even though I don't believe a word of it the guy was still nice and it's a part of my heritage and our shared history. To recoil in horror whenever Christos shows up is a little silly, just as it would be to fear images of Odin and Ra as potential propaganda pieces.

At any rate, free speech and all that. I agree though that any spam should be squashed and this is no exception.

[Kman.]

I think people who bash and mock religion like those from the beginning of this thread are just as annoying as the people trying to push their religion on others.

[Atlantis]

Debatable.
"Real Christianity" is a fuzzy concept at best, especially if one looks into the history of the early church.

Maybe I should have said historical Christianity, at least since the establishment of the Nicene Creed (since the very early Christians probably didn't resemble modern Christianity by any stretch, and may not have even seen Jesus as an actual man). But in a subject as obtuse as religion, I think historical and real are practically synonymous; in other words, if you're calling yourself Christian but you don't conform to any of the historical tenets of that faith as it's been established, you ought to be calling yourself something else.

My point was that, historically (and for so long that no other version really fits the term as we use it today), Christianity was an extremely hard-core, fire'n brimstone religion (which it prided itself on; Christ himself says it can only be so). This idea that hell may not be a real place and that sinners may actually not burn forever and ever is entirely a modern one, developed for queasy, modern sensibilities. One of the reasons the idea is so modern may be because anyone who posed it 500 years ago would likely have found themselves answering to Torquemada's gang.

(I'm aware that the concept of the afterlife is older than Christianity, and that a great deal of the Christian idea of hell may be based on mistranslation and geographical confusion, but I think that would only be truly relevant here if you accepted the Bible as the word of god. As it's a fabrication by men, only the way that men have used it is pertinent, in my estimation. I.e., since hell has always been a precept of the Christian religion, it doesn't really matter how it got there, only that it's there.)

Nope, I'd be in there voicing my opinion. I actually got slapped a while ago here (over the internet) when I posted my anti-islam views.

But you notice that the voicing of anti-Christian sentiment is seen as more acceptable than voicing anti-Muslim sentiment? I just thought that was an interesting double-standard.

[squidmonk3j]

"Matthew 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men"

+

I don't see anything bad about this either.

I was raised as a Christian, and we are taught that we should explain to people what Christ did for us.

= successful memetic engineering!

[Jason Rainville]

But you notice that the voicing of anti-Christian sentiment is seen as more acceptable than voicing anti-Muslim sentiment? I just thought that was an interesting double-standard.

Not really, actually, at least not online. Youtube is filled to its brim with anti-islamic videos, outraged at the stonings, death threats and special pleading. I've never seen an instance of informed criticism of Islam shot down, though I've seen many rightfully shouted at for being overtly racist.

[kab]

I don´t believe for a second that this kind of response would have resulted from any thread about religion that was actually valid. However, this guy joined the forum, spammed about praying or going to hell and then went on his merry way. I don´t see any problem with those of CA who don´t like being told what to believe by fundamentalist morons, of any religion, jumping all over this spammer until the mods close this thread to stop the meaningless "are we being insensitive"-discussion. This isn´t an anti-christianity thread, it´s an anti-religious-spam thread.

[Costau D]

C9_68WTknQY

[Dstudio]

although I know it was spam I really am kind of dissapointed in how some of the CA`ers jumped on it i mean as artist are we not supposed to be more open minded to others ideas and theories.


Nope. What book did that one come out of? You are who you are and that is how your art is created, not following the ways of the sheeples.

[Crawley]

to the OP: this was not an effective way to share your product.(your faith). nobody likes the spanish inquisition. here's what you could have done to not come off like a spammer. if you are an artist start a sketchbook thread. artist or not, you can go to the critiques center and start giving people helpful feedback. it doesn't take a great artist to point out that the anatomy of the eyes doesn't look right. we've all seen human faces so much that those kind of mistakes anybody,... but perhaps the artist can see. we tend to have blind spots when it comes to our own art. anyway, focus on being helpful and polite. add a link to your signature that redirrects to your webpage or blog or whatever that had your "helpful information" the link in your sig could be as blatant as "are you going to heaven" or "plan of salvation" or do you know jesus, or whatever. if you do have a sketchbook thread have another link to that as well. don't put a bunch of links.
but then people would think hey this baggins guy is alright, look he's in there tryin to be a positive contributer. hmm he has a link that sounds religious, maybe i'll check it out. see now you've earned the right to share your opinion. they are coming to you. that way they don't feel like you are waving your poop in their face. .. just a thought.. maybe a little more christlike to earn respect by serving.

[Nrx]

Ca might be smarter than the average forums on... ehum average, but its still a internet forum, making it just as susceptible to bandwagons are everywere else

..hmm..

I'd like to add a concluding point to this post, but i can't really think of anything truly relevant to summerise so instead i'll add this, its my opinion that being smart has become a bandwagon.. so i choose to be stupid instead, its a much simpler life... you all should try it

[Black Spot]

Bob, while I like heavy metal, that type gets very boring very quickly.

Crawly, I’m a Christian. E hugs all around. Yes, I’m that scary – run away - fast.

E hugs, e hugs, e hugs, e hugs…

I’m going back into my wardrobe if any one wants to find me.

[Rist]

OP: That sounds like a good story. I have been putting off the bible, but since I have read Wheel of Time series, I have had trouble finding an interesting fantasy book.

[Crawley]

black spot: gee i've never gotten an e hug before... it is a little creepy... uh... thanks though....i think.

[evildisco]

Wow, I think we should rename the lounge to Bible Study with Bob Ross. Enough already. Every time something religious pops up a whole argumentative shitstorm stirs.

[Dorkthrone]

I'm surprised a huge religious debate came from one insignificant religious spammer. I'm gonna have to side with Elwell on this one.

[kab]

And then someone tries being all mature by arguing for stopping the arguing... ;)

[s.ketch]

If God did exist, he would be on my side.

[evildisco]

And then someone comes along and points out that someone else is trying to stop the arguing.

[Straight Edge Ryan]

What if we have sinned, and acknowledge that we have sinned, but don't feel bad about it?

Cause honestly I have no guilt about all the stealing, swearing, belligerence, "taking the lords name in vain", being lazy, being an ass, womanizing, being a pervert, supporting gay rights and masturbating that I've done (and will continue to do) in my life

[Crawley]

hey, i ment to mention. if you do enjoy talking about religion i know a pretty good forum for that.
CARM Disscusion Forum (http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/index.php)
there are peoble on there from many worldviews. budist, messianic jews, mormons, different denominations or christianity, athiests, evolutionist, wickans, etc. you can put those burning questions to them, like "hey doesn't it bother you that the american indians weren't descended from the lost tribes of isreal." or " so you're telling me that you have to be baptised in water to be saved??? what if you are an astronaut in a space capsule and you convert, are you screwed if you burn up on reentry?" warning such questions might equate to poking the sleeping bear.
or you can just go a lurk around a bit.

[Dstudio]

What if we have sinned, and acknowledge that we have sinned, but don't feel bad about it?

Cause honestly I have no guilt about all the stealing, swearing, belligerence, "taking the lords name in vain", being lazy, being an ass, womanizing, being a pervert, supporting gay rights and masturbating that I've done (and will continue to do) in my life

I concur

[Crawley]

Ryan: at some point moral relativism does break down. it generaly happens when some someone elses morality happens to you. i'm sure you would think it was wrong if someone broke into your house and stole all your stuff.

[Straight Edge Ryan]

Very true Crawley, I see your point, but that's the problem with the great big grey area we call morality, there's no definite way to say what is and isn't bad. Would it be bad if someone broke into my house? of course. But after they broke into my house I'd take the extra effort to protect myself, maybe that one house breaking would make me beef up security in my house to the point that it would later prevent someone from murdering me in my sleep later on. In that way even "bad" things can be inherently "good"

But I also suppose that also depends on matters of prediction into the future that we don't have, as well as individual perceptions, etc. etc. blahblah god this is starting to sound like my senior final paper last year, so to avoid writing a term paper long response I'll just sum it up with: Morality in religion, when used to dictate personal beliefs is fine, morality used to dictate the life's of others is not.

[m@.]

Gay Bathhouse? bad idea, there's a chance he might enjoy it.

[Peter Coene]

Why is it that whenever I see a survey that asks what religion you are it never gives an option for "all of the above?"

[Arshes Nei]

What happened to the "Handbasket" option? For those that are still knee high to grasshoppers and bullfrogs?

[Crawley]

ryan:that's silly. we have morality used to dictate the behaviour of others. that's what laws are. that's what the police do. they enforce the state morality. a would you perfer anarchy?

[VulgarDragon]

Some of the morals are to protect other people from harm, or to protect yourself from harm.

BUT...there are some unnecessary ones that have nothing to do with the above.

I would say more, but maybe I better keep to myself.

[Jacob Kobryn]

GF3wagWwHjM


joEAb_y7ZYA


zzz0YVEgT5U


Lhfu84AONf8

Dimmu Borgir rules! And they're half of one of my all time favorite bands Arcturus... which is MUCH better than Dimmu. Hello and welcome to Dimmu Burger, may I take your order?

Behemoth is a pretty good band, I know a lot of people that absolutely love them but I don't really get it.

... there exists millions of better bands than those two though. I prefer both Arcturus and Borknagar (Vortex's other bands) to Dimmu.

Edit: oh, and I've heard from people that've met him that their singer's a total dick.

[Jason Rainville]

Sometimes I think we should just have one, huge, heavily moderated 'religion thread' and dump all the conversation about religion and religion-related subjects in there. Imagine how many threads could go on as usual when people are pointed to such a thread, or how many discussions about the same damn thing can be avoided when new threads are locked and users referred to the thread.

Just a thought.

[Opilione]

I think we should all have a group excursion to the bathhouse.

[Jacob Kobryn]

Bob, while I like heavy metal, that type gets very boring very quickly.


Which type? Symphonic Black Metal (Dimmu) or Blackened Death Metal (Behemoth)? Though the costumes (which I think are soooooooooooooooooo stupid) are similar, the music isn't that similar.

[Farvus]

I think we should all have a group excursion to the bathhouse.

Or rename the Lounge into Bathhouse.

[Straight Edge Ryan]

ryan:that's silly. we have morality used to dictate the behaviour of others. that's what laws are. that's what the police do. they enforce the state morality. a would you perfer anarchy?

Everyone tends to have the same general consensus on morality, the major ones involving theft, rape, murder, etc. but the laws in this country are based on secular reasons, they correspond to common sense and rationality and are put in place because the general populace believes that they are best for preserving order in this country. But I'm talking about morality based on religion

The driving force behind morality in religion is due largely, if not entirely due to the presense of a God. Nothing grants creedence to someones beliefs like saying that their founder is an all-knowing, all-seeing omnipotent being that can't under any circumstances be wrong. Without said omnipotent being, then their religious views become entirely a matter of opinion. Suddenly matters like homosexual sex being immoral turn from "why is it immoral? Because we said so" to "Why is it immoral? Because an all-knowing father figure in the sky says so". Therein lies the problem of proving the existence of said omnipotent being, and confirming whether or not those particular religious beliefs do in fact correspond to his (or her) individual will. Of course as any preacher will tell you, no one knows for sure, thus belief is a matter of faith, and as a matter of faith the certainty of the presense of an omnipotent being (the one thing that turns personal beliefs into facts) is unknowable. Since faith is believing without seeing, faith cannot exist without doubt, if there is doubt, they aren't certain, if they aren't certain it isn't a fact, if it isn't a fact then they shouldn't be policing the life's of others with it. And that, in a nutshell is why policing others based on individual religious beliefs is, for lack of a better word, hypocritically retarded

[alesoun]

Nice of Frodobaggins to offer, but God/fate/destiny kicks my ass on a regular basis, and I have a direct number for "OUCH!"

I don't think mediation would help a whole lot........

Elwell, just noticed the poll. Have a marshmallow cookie. On a dietary basis we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, but I'll end up with a fatter ass :(

[kab]

I´m all for creating a thread called "Gay Bathhouse" for ALL religious discussion.

[Crawley]

Ryan: a few things.
this country... are we talking about the same country. maybe not. i live in the united states of america. a country established by theists mostly influinced by Christians. if you want an secular atiestic state try communism. i'm sure some of you would love that, they kill christians in china for spreading thought polution. or maybe you'd like a government set up on the principals of darwinism. ... like hitler's germany. pure blood lines and the master race and all that. if a whole contry allows ethnic cleasing to occur it doesn't make it right in my book. to day we have gay/transgender rights issues, i can sympatize with that. how about petaphelia, bestiality, why not let a man marry his pet sheep. is that ok? how about polygamy? should we have that? who knows they have it in the bible right?

back to the america thing. weren't all men... created... equal? endowed by their ....creator ....with rights?

i don't know i know some of you guys don't like "religious people". bashing God has become vogue. "the God delusion." and all that. scientists are playing philosophers. commedians like bill mar run my faith through the gutters daily. and dang. they are pretty whitty and funny. but it's gotten kind of old to me. this everybody who wants to talk about religion should go jump in a gay bath house is about the most junior high thing i have ever been a part of on this board. i know i'm a nobody here. i'm a two bit artist and an infrequent poster. but when i come here i am used to quality. i don't mind people being irreverant or edgy. but alot of you guys are professionals. and this. this has just dissapointed me. blah, blah, blah right. i just thought we had more in common than that . that we were here to help each other and share. CA is still one of my favorite sites... right behind homestarrunner. so whatever. i still love you guys, we don't have to agree.

[s.ketch]

Ryan: a few things.
this country... are we talking about the same country. maybe not. i live in the united states of america. a country established by theists mostly influinced by Christians. if you want an secular atiestic state try communism.

It is unbelievably hilarious and terrifying that you associate secular with communism but not free market. There is so many bad political implications for that statement that I am at a loss for words.




i'm sure some of you would love that, they kill christians in china for spreading thought polution. or maybe you'd like a government set up on the principals of darwinism. ... like hitler's germany. pure blood lines and the master race and all that. if a whole contry allows ethnic cleasing to occur it doesn't make it right in my book. to day we have gay/transgender rights issues, i can sympatize with that. how about petaphelia, bestiality, why not let a man marry his pet sheep. is that ok? how about polygamy? should we have that? who knows they have it in the bible right?

No. We do not use Darwin's model of evolution anymore and even if we did, it has nothing to do with the set up of government. Secular government does not lead to ethnic cleansing. You are very very very mistaken and uneducated. Homosexuality does not lead to pedophilia, beastaility, nor the legal marriage of humans to other species. Also, PLEASE give me an instance of a polygamist that does not belong to some sort of sect of Christianity or other Abramic religion.


i don't know i know some of you guys don't like "religious people". bashing God has become vogue. "the God delusion." and all that. scientists are playing philosophers. commedians like bill mar run my faith through the gutters daily. and dang. they are pretty whitty and funny. but it's gotten kind of old to me.

If you are so worried about the image of your religion maybe you should stop speaking on it's behalf and trying to represent it. You seriously need to educate yourself about a few things before you should speak about something so great and complex as religion, government, history, and life.


EDIT: Please lock this thing before I have an aneurysm.

[Jason Rainville]

or maybe you'd like a government set up on the principals of darwinism. ... like hitler's germany.

Oh goody. Tell Ben Stein to go back to making those terrible eye drop commercials, he's done a number on you.

Darwin had as much to do with the deaths of those jews and other supposed 'undesirables' as Benjamin Franklin had to do with those killed via the electric chair.

[Dave Kendall]

God claims to be ALL powerful and omnipotent, yet Lucifer still managed to take a piss in the angelic hot tub which god only noticed when the water had turned a hue of sulphurous yellow. I'd say all bets are off.

[Costau D]

Thomas Edison is a better example compared to Benjamin.

[Sundance]

Wow...three pages of responses to a fucking spammer.

A+ Fail

[Jason Rainville]

Thomas Edison is a better example compared to Benjamin.

Benjamin (at least classically) discovered electricity while Edison... invented the lightbulb? Anyways it doesn't matter. threadlock pretty please.

[Matt001]

threadlock pretty please.

Second that.

[kab]

Crawley, this has absolutely nothing to do with bashing christianity... This has everything to do with the fact we don´t like spamming twats telling us to pray or go to hell.

In your last post you went of the deep end, comparing those that don´t agree with your view of christianity to:

Communists/communist governments
China
Social Darwinist Ideology
Hitler
People who fuck sheep

Dude, there are so many things wrong with your arguements that I don´t know where to begin.

Non-religious countries do not equal a communist dictatorship, communism is a model for society and economy, it does not mean evil dictatorship. The cold-war is over, time to cancel the Red-Scare.

China has issues with religious freedom, true. They do not kill all christians for spreading their gospel. This is also completely irrelevant to any arguement brought forward in this thread.

Social-Darwinism is luckily not practised by anyone with half a brain these days and believing in evolution has absolutely NOTHING to do with either Darwins race-beliefs or social-darwinism as reasoning behind ethnic cleansing.

Hitler. Reductio ad Hitlerum = Hitler did X so X is bad... Hitler had eyes, eyes are bad. Did that make sense? No? Comparing things to Hitler to prove them as wrong means you´ve most likely ran out of (or never had) valid arguements.

Also, dude, homosexuality does not, by any stretch of the imagination, equal bestiality, jeez...

Man, the gay bathhouse thing is funny and not at the expense of every christian, but at the expense of the spamming idiot who told us to pray his prayer or do laps in a lake of fire.

[evildisco]

Second that.

Quoted for enphasis.

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!

[Straight Edge Ryan]

Well before this thread gets locked I'd just like to add a couple more words, to clarify

-I am not an atheist

-I never advocated the banning of religion, only the belief that people shouldn't use THEIR beliefs to dictate the lifes of OTHERS, which is a reasonable viewpoint regardless of which religion you believe

-Hitlers Germany was a fascism, masquerading as a socialism, and fueled by nationalism. The ethnic cleansing in Germany and other neighbouring European nations was influenced largely by the Eugenics movement, formulated by psychologist Sir Francis Galton in 1883

-Statistically, the majority of pedophiles are straight, married men

-I honestly don't get the whole "what's next after gay marriage? will people start humping turtles?" argument. For the life of me I can't picture a gay guy saying "yeah, I used too be into men, but now 2 legs just don't do it for me anymore"

-For all I care, let polygomists marry as many people as they want. I don't see how it affects anyone but them

-Yes it does say "endowed by their creator" but it fails to specify the creator in question. The fact that we exist is proof of a creator of some kind. Besides, it also has that "separation of church and state" part in it too

-Bill Maher is a pompous ass, I'm sure I'd agree with a lot of his views, but I never want to listen to him due to his sheer pretentiousness

-Never once did I try to discredit Christianity or any other religion. I merely pointed out that when dealing with matters of faith, you should keep your beliefs on a personal level

-I have no problem with religious people, I concider myself a Buddhist, and will gladly talk about it to anyone who wants to know more. But going around telling people that what they believe is wrong, and if they dont believe what you do then they're going to burn in hell, is pretentious and a dick move, regardless of your religious stance

[Crawley]

ok, i know i ran off at the mouth did i mention that it's late. i should have been gone to bed and i hadn't taken my anti pshycotic medicine yet for the night. ...seriously. anyway. i'm going to bed now. gnight.

[corky13]

Every time I see such threads I can`t help but think that the age of enlightement truly is over

...but on the other hand I am not a slight bit better. Lock please before the temptation is too strong to resist O_O. *hides in a corner*

[Costau D]

Benjamin (at least classically) discovered electricity while Edison... invented the lightbulb? Anyways it doesn't matter. threadlock pretty please.

He was also involved in the war of currents against Nikola Tesla. Edison supported DC claiming AC (supported by Tesla) was much more unsafe. Edison won the publics response because he created propaganda footage against AC by purposefuly Electrifying an Elephant and other Animals to death. Scared people enough to accept the main current. AC eventually though took over.

Benjamin discovered, Edison was a part of making it useable. He can't directly be blamed for the way we use it.

It's all right here in this pamphlet...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents

He also invented moving pictures.

Let me add though AC is much safer, but not as stable.

Thus completes my explanation of why I think Edison should have been used in your argument, and making this the most irrelevant post in the thread.


:hatsoff:

LOCK THE FUCKING THREAD

This is like eating potato chips for me.

Just one more, just one more, just one more.
fHQeORzeclY

[evildisco]

Nikola Tesla is the shit, period.

I win argument.

[Matt001]

One post, and whatever-the-fuck-his-name-was has produced so much drama.

God is love?

Bullshit. This has become nothing but hate.

LOCK THIS THREAD. Admin people, if you value this site, do it.

[evildisco]

rabble rabble rabble

edit: cosmo that is fucked up beyond belief, Edison was ebil. I bet he sleazed it up with Alister Crowley or some shit.

[Rist]

One post, and whatever-the-fuck-his-name-was has produced so much drama.

God is love?

Bullshit. This has become nothing but hate.

LOCK THIS THREAD. Admin people, if you value this site, do it.

Okay...you clearly are new to CA...

[bluefooted]

We do not use Darwin's model of evolution anymore...

I do :)

[Molly]

Now your all going to fucking Hell. ALL OF YOU. For responding in such a dramatic way and taking everything to heart....

This topic is a scratched record. Put something else on, please....

Mx

[B u r l]

Second that.

bump for mods attention.

:mod:

[Molly]

...for gods sake - this guy has called us ALL sinners...well, I'm going to hell too...

Thread closed.