Please help me

[Sphyzex_9]

I'm having trouble with neck/shoulder lengths. are there any proportional rules with involving the length of the neck or width of the clavicles and deltoids? I can never tell if I'm making them too long or too short. I've been told that in gesture sketches to simplify the upper torso to a triangle shape but I have no idea where to divide it from there. I've been studying anatomy a lot but it's still kind of hard to get a grasp on this. If anyone could give any help I would really appreciate it.

[TASmith]

KChen has a great tutorial on anatomy in the tutorial subforum. He's got a great diagram for constructing the neck and shoulders based on geometrical forms. It's good to draw over.

The perceived length of the neck changes a great deal based on the tilt of the head, and your own viewpoint. My best advice is keep practicing and observing.