da Vinci Master Works- need help...

[RylandIllu]

These are Master Works that I am working on from da Vinci drawing and studies. I would love advice on how to make them better. I am an 11th grader in high school, and would like to go to Ringling School of Art and Design. - In my close town of Sarasota. I would like to possibly work on the pieces to get them good for portfolio. Comments are very helpfull. Thank you!- They are done on paper, with pencil.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/451210/Da3.jpg

This one was the first one I did.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/451210/da4.jpg

this was the second I am working on. AND I REPEAT< I AM NOT TRYING TO RIP OFF DA VINCI!!! THIS IS JUST FOR STUDY > I know! I need to get larger Images...I will soon, promiss....

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/450468/Untitled-2.jpg

That's da Vinci's...

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/450468/Untitled-1.jpg

That's mine.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/450468/Untitled-4.jpg

da Vinci's

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/450468/Untitled-5.jpg

For this last one, I died the paper myslf to give it that older look. I died it for about 5 hours, on and off.

[AmishCommy]

ole!

way back when i was applying to art schools Ringling was one of my choises. I got accepted but ended up not going because of all the things my friends told me about it. I don't know if anything changed since but I'll tell you what i sent them for my portfolio.

The best thing to send is still lifes, life drawings, and paintings that show the use of various media. I sent them werks in pastels and acrylic paints, pencil and chalk. Copying masters is a good way to improve your skills when you're just starting out, but i don't recomend sending that as oyur portfolio pieces. It doesnt hurt to have some works that show your creative thinking. This can be your first foray into fine arts and it will most likely suck, but it shows that you can think beyond the blandness of a still life and or drawing from life. Also you need to show comprehention of basic concepts of shading, volume, composition, etc. If you show that they should accept you. unless, of course, they are evil nazi assholes.

[RylandIllu]

Thank you for the comment. Two of my teachers are Ringling grads. The teacher I am doing this project for graduated last year. I just layed out the drawing, and plan to go in and work with more shadding. I mosly want to go there for Computer Animation. We shall see. I think it's a great school from going there, and hearing from it. ANd, hey, it's right in my back yard. Your from Boca Huh, did you ever get to see the Cartoon Museum that closed? It rocked.

[Main Loop]

you wanna at least be able to make a straight line for the grid.. use a ruler man.. and something that will make a 90 degree angle..

[RylandIllu]

Yeah, I have a bad habbit of drawing thing on angels, and then realizing it. I thought about useing a ruler, but I wanted to try it freehand. Thank you. - These are really just sketches and trys and such. I'll probobly redo both of them. Thank you.!

[tinyhands]

Not to make a negative comment, but if you haven't pondered it, maybe you should. If your teacher graduated from Ringling, and is teaching high school art classes, that ought to tell you something......

[DragonGX]

MY advice to you is that you're not paying attention to the original drawing.

All of your drawings are off.. .not bit a small amount, but by a large margin..

Try one again, but slowly draw, paying more attention to the original than your own drawing. go extremely slow.. a small drawing should take you at least 30 minutes. remember, pay more attention to the original and go EXTREMELY SLOW.

That should improve your drawings, you have to teach yourself to draw what you see and not what you think you see.

[Phuzion]

My feeling is that Leo made a grid, and if you actually take the time to recreate his grid accurately, it should be pretty simple to recreate his drawing. If you're going to apply to Ringling or any other good art school, you can't go half-assed. You gotta go all out. Take the time to really create a good reproduction, and take the time to get a really strong portfolio together.
As for the second one, well, it's pretty far off. It looks like the cartoon version of da Vinci's piece. Start over on it. Take the time to do studies of parts of the picture. Don't worry about dying the paper yourself, just get a midtone paper and a brown pencil and draw draw draw. Get familliar with his style of working. Realistically, and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, don't go for a high-end art school yet. Go to a community college and get some of the basic art classes and GE classes out of the way, it'll be worth your time. I would recommend it for anyone, regardless of skill level. You don't want to be paying thousands of dollars for a basic english comp class, or a basic drawing class, it's a waste of time. Then, when you get a clear idea of where you want to go with your art, you'll be ready to apply to art schools. That's just my 2.5 cents. Just keep drawing, ALL THE TIME!! It's the path to enlightenment ;p Peace

[AmishCommy]

never ever use the excuse that you are going to school for computer animation. I went to SCAD and what seperated the best from the rest is the ability to draw. Just take a look on this board. many here a computer animators. take a look at the work of those that know their shit as apposed to the suckas trying with no formal foundation to lean on.

i don't know your background in art. if you are just starting out and thinking of seriously pursuing it then you have a good start. practice and practice some more and you'll see positive results. but if you've been werking on it for a long time and what you have to show is the best you can do you either gotta stop making excuses for yourself and start werking hard or just give up and study business

[RylandIllu]

Thank you all, I know, my drawing daes suck, and im not just saying this because you guys are helping me. I am already have about 15 hours out at the Comunity College, and plan to finish up all the required classes for Ringling that can be done at MCC. As for the drawing, I suck, I have always sucked, and not to sound pompus, but I feel that my graphics work is a little better, but ya know, I'll never be a great artist, but, ya know what, Ringling is 20 mins from my house, I going to give it a try.

[RylandIllu]

Were you the best or the rest?

[RylandIllu]

Thanks dude.(Phuzion)- I love your work.

[shyst]

OHH why do suckas like amish get off on calling people suckas...

AmishCommy
take a look at the work of those that know their shit as apposed to the suckas trying with no formal foundation to lean on.

i lived in the dirty south and boca ratons a buncho rich-dix yeah if we all had pampering folkz we all could go to georgia..

you said people who aint got the skillz should give up ....ONE case in point- todd mcfarlane.. didn't go to scad or take up fancy art classes- BUT didn't give up..mebby he shoulda stuck to buisness- oh wait he is quite a tycoon.......

man the most sought after artist in the late 80's n early 90's
he shoulda gave up-
just like the rich folx to perpetuate ignorance..

just plain - ignorant commy-

OH and by the way they wasted their money on your college your stuff and website aint all that bra-
i could make maga cum ladie if i went to class every day also
LAUGH*

Have a nice day-

Shyst
1'st 507 PIR
into the unknown

[AmishCommy]

hey man i never said don't go to ringling. being so close will save you tons of caish. and i do suggest taking some of your liberals and foundation classes at a less expensive college. hey, if you have a dream don't let an asshole like myself discourage you. I come from the school where if someone tells me i cant do something it becomes my goal to prove them wrong. and i'm not putting you down or anything, I just see where you are now and the great potential to improve. as for the spreading of the hate for the excuse of 3d art, here's where i'm comming from: most of my friends at scad and outside of scad studied computer art. and those that leaned on basic art skills produced higher quaity of werk than those that spent their time on the computer all day. you can NEVER go wrong with improving your observational, analytical and creative skills.

as for SHYST, hot remarks. finaly some entartainment. I do tend to come off as a know-it-all but that's only cause i'm very critical. the people that give out jobs are usualy just as critical if not worse.

ya boca does suck and there are lots of spoiled kids here but i am soooo not one of them. i imigrated to america with practically no money. my perents scrubbed toilets to help me pay for college. I have ridiculous loans to pay off. I never made out SCAD to be better than Ringling. in fact i left SCAD hating it. I think any school i got accepted to would have been better than SCAD. but i did get a valuble education there cause i werked my ass off. Magna Cum Laude means nothing to me. anyone who showed up to class at SCAD could have gotten it. but it does look good on yer resume. lots of people without talent make it and become quite successful, i.e. todd mcfarlane, rob liefeld and half the comicbook industry. but that still doesnt make them good artists. maybe some of boca rubbed off on you cause you sound like that the measure of success is how much bad merchandising you can cram on the public that doesnt care to seek out something worthwhile and good. Money is not a gauge for success, at least not to me. I believe that if the people that suck would leave the art to the real artists it would make everyone's life simpler. there would be more demand for good art over cheep art. and a lot of the people showing werk on these forums that strugle to make a living wouldn't have to. As for you not liking my art that is just a matter of opinion. I can't realy rip apart your werk cause i can't seem to find it on your site. not that i would if it was of professional quality. I'll be happy to tell you if i like it or not though.

[RylandIllu]

"I believe that if the people that suck would leave the art to the real artists it would make everyone's life simpler."- so what happens when all of you guys die? If people didn't work for art, then "Your Guys" would just die, and we would have no art. Sounds like a bad world to me.- Were you born with talent? are you a savat? Probobly not.

[AmishCommy]

i believe that talent is not the ability to draw well or play sports well or what have you. talent is the drive to improve on what's there. maybe i did not mention that when i first started drawing i sucked. i still think i suck. there is always room for improvemnet. what i wanted to know is if you had just started drawing or if you have been doing it from an early age. i've been drawing for over 15 years and i see improvement every day. do you see the same imprvement in your werk? i think if you wake up in the morning and can't feel right without drawing then you have the talent to become good. as for death of artists, there have always been new artists and better artists and there will always be more, waht i meant to say was if you are not at the level of a professional then you should stop pretending that you are (you never said that you were so this is not an attack on you). l never said that there is no hope for the non-professionals. i just mean if you are fooling yourself into believing that you're good when you are not then it's not very beneficial to both you or the art world in general.

[shyst]

you know i suck- my work sucks and i do get up wanting to improve thats what a better person does... you talk about business philoshy schooling and political issues.. and all you do is seem to styfel ... give a person the opportunity TOO improve themselves b4 casting them away you told that kid welp if you dont improve get into business -hrmmn thats seems a bit imperialistic to me..or however you communist put it-. - you talk about things and then seem hypocritical...

actually your work does seem to have good frame work commy- and i even though your websites was ok...

yeah cool we all got our sad storys to tell-

alas i digress from the boca comment...and rich parents..comments...
you seem inteligent...


the weathers mac dady down south and the beachs aint half bad...

i should'nt take these boards so serious-

i don't really care to be called a sucka cause i have no hard foundations....


Shyst
to quote EMNEM
BLA-BLITY-BLA BLAH BLAH

[ChadTHX1138]

Amish: you make a lot of good valid points and i will agree with just about all of them, If you want to make a career in art, It will be a strong solid folio of drawings and paintings that will get you a job faster than your 3D skills, I will say it doesnt matter what degree in art you have your art speaks way more than writing, also the only way to get better is to keep doing it every day even if you draw for 30 minutes.

If you go to school it is there to show you new things new techniques and ways of doings things and you apply what you learn to your work even if you never use it again and take what fits you and apply it. No matter what anyone says at a school you will not be working when you get out, unless you make the effort to get good will that ever happen and it rarely does.

But if you are going to learn anything then learn Humility...Because there is nothing more than an artist that talks bigger than his abilities that rubs an Art Director or Professional the wrong way. Something i had to leaarn the hard way a long time ago.

[AfroLaxMan]

RylandIllu-
I got tired of reading all the slander, so I don't know if this issue has been addressed.

With your studies, you have to keep in mind that for Da Vinci, porportions was one of the things that really mattered to him. Not only did he draw (damn good), but he was a mathmatician, and he really was big in the "Golden Mean," which scholars as far back as Pythagorean worshipped because everything in nature is broken down into this measure. Take a further look your at study. The grid in the profile has a purpose, and it isn't because it looks cool.
All the rectangles are of the same porportions, and when drawn right, will create the most pondered shape in nature. This shape is seen in the nautilus.

Keep in mind, every part of a human figure can be broken down into the same ratio, so, everything is consistant. It's odd, but it is what nature has already devised.
So I suggest this, use the grid as an aid, not an after thought, and when you draw the figure, use the proportions that nature has already given to you. The masters have studied these proportions all their lives, and so all you have to do is read up on them. Your drawing will become more solid, and your appreciation for art in general should become deeper and more fulfilling.

ps, there is nothing wrong with using a high class education to teach others, it actually is a higher purpose and deserves more credit that given. I would do it if the vdieo game industry didn't pay so well...

[dyoung]

All I have to say is I hope you have the green. I just graduated this past year. Their tuition went up 6% every year that I went there, and is still going up. If you go there though, go to FEWS, (figure enhancement with students.) It's $20 dollars a semester for 3 extra hours of life drawing a night. But last I heard, portfolios weren't required. Maybe I'm wrong but thats what I heard.

dyoung

[RylandIllu]

Thanks to everyone who commented. I am curently working on fixing the drawing, and perhaps re doing then altogehter. Just the set the record strait, I am 15, I have only been really trying to learn to draw for 2.5 years. I mean overall, for me, my drawings were chicken nuggets! really, sadly I'm not jokeing. And I just have this feeling about working for Lucas, or Pixar, I just didn't realize the inportant of drawing till I was 13. And really, I don't think that's all that bad. Oh, and ChadTHX1138, love the screen name! It's a great film. Anyways, Thank you all of for the comments. I really do plan to work harder on my drawings. I will post more drawings an graphic work as I get it compleated through out the year. I hope you are willing to comment as much on the next ones as you did one theses. Thnak you all. O yeah, dyoung, tuition goes up another $1,000 per sememster per year at Ringling. EVERY YEAR!

[Mr. Teatime]

all i have to say is take more time and use the grid. it helps:cool:

[INFERNOmunky]

heh...another eleventh grader working on there portfolio.....i just started making portfolio pieces myself, and i started with a boot, went to my hand....and now am doing my self portrait......im hoping that wherever i go doesnt require to many peices.....cuz at my rate of 2 and half pieces per quarter ill only get 10 pieces done this year....

now in regards to your master copies, one this you may want to look at is the negative space to get a grip on the placement of everything....have fun with your portfolio....

[dyoung]

RylandIllu
you have to be kiddin me man 1k/ semester? wow. Man I thought I had it bad. Good luck man, I hope you get in. If you are accepted, find Patrick Fiore. He's the man, he will help you big time. Good luck and kick ass!
dyoung
www.dmfy.com

[AmishCommy]

feel free to dream big but keep things realistic. I have a lot of friends that are damn good at animating, modeling, drawing and what have you, but none of them made it to pixar or ilm. these companies are even more critical than i can ever hope to be. from what i hear, pixar is really fun to werk at but they're real assholes to anyone trying to join them. same story with ilm. ilm doesnt keep anyone for more than a year or two, or a project or two. they're always looking for new tallent and they can easily get them for cheep. but a lot of ilm alumni went off to start their own successful companies. everyone always looks at the aplicant's drawing abilty first. most of them dont care if you know maya or had a love affair with the computer since before puberty. they all have their own programs that can easily be learned. the best thing to do is to draw from observation. look at objects in the round and train yourself to recreate them on paper. its tough. no one is perfect. you got a ways to go. i bet i was at about the same level as you are when i was yer age. but like i said in earler posts, never make excuses. excuses dont werk at a job interview. I'd advise you to avoid colleges that don't have portfolio reviews (art schools). scad didn't have one and that should have been my first clue of things to come. also every school is raising tuition like crazy. but i think ringling sucks more for raising it every semester. but you seem set on going there so good luck with it. i don't doubt that they have competent professors that know their shit. i've found with chools like scad and ringling (who are in competition with each other) the best way to get the most out of it is soak up everything your profs teach you. go to the life drawing classes and take as many as you can.

as for everyone else here, those of you starting out or don't have experience in this here's some non-hostile advice. DC comics and Dark Horse keep saying this at their portfolio reviews. fisrt shw your werk to professionals werking in the business. they'll tell you your strengths and weaknesses. that is why these forums are so great. if the professionals (and this means many professionals not some kid that self-published a comic or animated some movie and put it in a fancy box) tell you that you're ready for the big leagues than good luck showing you portfolios/demo reels to the biggest critics around. oh and a word of advice, if they tell you you need werk on something dont start defending your mistakes in an effort to salvage your ego. they werk there so that means that they know a little about good werk.

[RylandIllu]

I didn't mean it went up each semester, I mean it goes up each year. Ex- Last year $9,000 1st. Semester, $9,000 Secoind semester. This year, $10,000 1st. Sememster, and $10,000 second. I just feel that It's something that I want to do. And I will work as hard as I need to to schive that goal. I want the be one of thoses people who can get a good job for working hard at Ringling. And I know it's going to be work, But I really want to do it.

[armor]

I suggest you stay away from ringling, i went there and graduated. And I still suck.

It is like taking a highschool art class. I mean if computers is your main interest, then go for it, but otherwise, forget the drawing aspect of it.

horrible waste of money:mad: I lost alot of good years to that place

[endregan]

yes quite simple really, youre drawing them much out of proportion than the original-distorting the drawings to make them appear much larger than the original. study the sketch and try and recreate it perfectly, these things take time.

train your eye!

[dyoung]

armor
When did you graduate from Ringling? If it was recently, I probably know you. Yeah it has gone down hill alot hasn't it. I got out just in time. My sophmore yeare is when we got a new president, and he is only interested in money.

[sic1]

Originally posted by AmishCommy
i think if you wake up in the morning and can't feel right without drawing then you have the talent to become good.

I have teh burning desire to draw all the time - but school gets in the way. (Yeah, drawing is waaay above school work on my priority list - although the mum doesn't like that)

I agree with Amish's definition of talent as well. No one is born with a 'gift' like drawing, but you have to want it. A lot of people on these forums alone are displaying that want :)

[AmishCommy]

ya things always get in the way of drawing.

i woke up today realy early to run some erands and it finally cooled down last nite here in SoFla so it was a beautiful day. all i wanted to do was call in sick and paint all day.

but then again, i make a lot of excuses why i'm not drawing, but all they are are excuses. they don't help you in the long run. you gotta force yerself to make time

[RylandIllu]

Iill agree with you on this Commey, I do need to just buckle down and do it. The only way I'm going to be any good, or even make it into Ringling is to draw more. Plain and simple.

[Lost Dragon]

Stuff:

It doesn't really matter what school you go to. If you have enough self-determination, you will learn what you need to learn (sometimes even in spite of the school you end up at). With that said, if you can afford to go to a good school, then that's great. If not, you are still ok - the amount of work you are going to have to do to make it professionally is the same.

Talent doesn't really mean anything - I see plenty of really talented people who never develop their talents into anything that approaches polished. I should know because I'm one of them. :rolleyes: I'm working on that (no excuses here).

Draw every day. Do 20 good sketches a week - good life studies. You may find this boring, but the more you do it the less tedious it becomes. Think of life drawing as self-programming. You're making a rendering machine in your head. Once you have that, you can learn any 3D software you want.

The forums here are a gold mine. Use them up and wear them out.

Use a ruler. Your grid is warped, so your reproduction came out warped. You wasted your own time trying to use the grid method with a grid that isn't straight. Don't do that - it just sets you up for failure.

Good luck with it. Post some more stuff. Don't get discouraged. :)

[talmir]

hmm, that drawing.. I have it in a Davinci book I have, Deosn't it face the other way? I know, trivial but curious :P

[RylandIllu]

Not to my knowledge, by hey with all the backwards stuff he did, who knows!- Thank you though.- See my other post under WORKS IN PROGRESS.