Digital Painting: Color Disparities in Print?

[Viridis]

So, this was an issue my illustration teacher brought up the other day. A number of us are doing projects digitally, so of course we have to print them out for the critique. The teacher mentioned that it's become a problem in children's book illustration, if people color things digitally, that they have to send a print copy along with the digital file so that the client knows what the colors are supposed to look like.

I can believe that it's somewhat a problem (although I've found that art tends to appear either lighter or darker on different screens, but the colors don't change), but I wanted to ask, since I know a lot of people on here work for Wizards, Dragon, etc, doing illos for RP books or MtG cards or other things that are all specifically bound for print. I'm curious, because I know a lot of those illustrations--maybe the majority-- are done digitally. Do you have to send a color copy of your work along? Or does the client simply send it off to the printer and it comes out however? How do you ensure a correct print, especially if you're working on a laptop where you can't recalibrate the monitor?

[Grief]

a problem for children's books? no sir, its a problem for all printed images.

color calibrate your monitor with your printer and make sure the color field workspace of your image is the same as the output for your printer's workspace.

what kind of laptop do you have where you cant adjust the contrast, brightness, and color temperature? thats alarming.

but yes, always send digital files and instructions on color field output.

[Viridis]

That doesn't really answer the question I asked. Were you reading? Seriously, I'm beginning to wonder if I should even bother asking things in this forum, considering I rarely get good answers (or even ones which are properly typed.)

I realize it's a problem for all printed images. My teacher merely brought it up in the context of Children's books. My question, though, was if it was true that the artist must send a color printout to the client, because I've never heard of such a thing, but she was talking like it was common practice.

You mention digital instructions and files on color field output: what does that mean? How would one do so? These are things I should know, and why I'm asking.

I have a standard Toshiba laptop, and I can adjust brightness and such, but I've looked into the issue before and the process that you use for a standard monitor to calibrate the precise colors is... generally not possible for laptops. My understanding was that laptops had more of a fixed or limited range... it has been awhile, but it was something like that.

[cmalidore]

I've had clients suggest color profiles to make sure that we're on the same page, but generally I'm checking my own calibration and doing a test print.... if it looks good I'll send it to my client and they can do what they like with it since it's their image at that point.

Many printers and clients can offer workspace specifics if you ask, and then you can tailor your image to those constraints.

EDIT: Forgot to answer the main question, I gotta learn to sleep more - no I've never had to send a printout with my digital copies.

[CCThrom]

In my fairly limited experience (I usually work in grayscale), it depends on your working preference as well as the client's preference. A bigger client with a larger budget and more staff may be able to take more time doing color correction back-and-forth with the artist. On the other hand, you may be comfortable leaving it entirely up to your client's art director/designers to make sure the final product looks good. And yes, sometimes there are disasters.

I can well imagine that in children's books this could be a particular issue... when you're dealing with flat or simplified color planes, out-of-gamut colors could lead to very different results than what you intended. I find it less of an issue in more painterly artwork though. Also, children's books often work with a long time frame and they're used to waiting on stuff like that. Some of the larger children's publishers request originals only, so that they can do their own scanning.

If you can't color-correct you monitor, your best option is to test on a local printer... although that can also be very different from the production printer. If it really bugs you, you can request signoff on print proofs... which is something you'd have to work out with the client art director.

Addressing central question... I have not heard that sending your own color proof is necessarily common practice (all of my clients have worked with digital files sent electronically... not waiting around for the mail) but it is certainly done... some artists are *really* fussy about that... but again it depends a lot on the relationship you have with your art director/client.

[Grief]

cripes dont get snappy when you get feedback.

here's how color fields operate and why you need to be aware of your workspace in both your monitor and printer.

sRGB vs Adobe (1998 ) (http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sRGB-AdobeRGB1998.htm)

[Ilaekae]

Nearly all commercial printers require some sort of color "proof" before they'll guarantee the quality of the final printed piece, especially for art that has been done digitally or digitized from a photo outside their facility. This is the only way they have of verifying exactly what it is you want. If your printout looks good to you, they assume that changes made at their facility to correct for gamma problems, dot gain and such will be correct if they match to your proof/print-out.

As for the children's book thing, it's common with ALL professional production (outside of newspaper) to assume some sort of proof will accompany the digital files.

This applies even to black and white art. It's necessary because the RIP Programs may fart when they output the negatives, or you may have made a mistake in accidentally specifying an overprint when you intended for a knock-out trap.

If you don't understand any of the terms I used, ask, and I'll explain...

[Viridis]

Thanks, guys. The freelance work I've done has mainly been in the line of character art commissions, so I generally just send the client a high-resolution file, and they print it out if they like. I haven't done a lot of work that's specifically for print, besides the prints I make myself.

Grief: Sorry if I was a bit blunt, but I do get frustrated sometimes because I feel like the "Art Discussion" forum, er, doesn't actually have a lot of discussion about art. It's a lot of people whining about how they're not motivated or want to get better without actually studying... and this kind of bothers me. I want to have real discussions, but they seem to be in short supply. So I get a bit snippy when people seem to skim over or give short responses that don't really cover the topic I asked.

Anyway, I think my question has been pretty well answered. Thanks again for your input.

[kab]

But then Grief actually DID answer your question. How to secure that your work looks right when sent of to others to print? The answer is, as Grief said, ensure that you are using the correct color workspace, the one that your client uses for printing. Calibrate your screen to your printer (which has been also calibrated to said color-space) so that your screen gives you the best possible match. There will almost always be some difference, because of various inks etc. Which is my there are spot-color system such as Pantone.

I know this is all greek if you don´t know how these things work, but it helps to read up on colorspaces and calibration, just try wikipedia or ask someone at your local printer. :) It´s often a rather complicated business, some commercial-printers even have their own color-profiles that you have to use to ensure correct output. Obviously this is for those who are really picky. Logo design often needs a logo to appear the same when printed on two types of paper, in two countries etc. and you´ll have to do lots of work and create seperate files and profiles.

[Viridis]

I just asked if it was common practice to send along an actual paper copy with the digital file, since I hadn't heard of many people doing that.

And I admit, I got a little twitchy when he failed to use any capitals or things like that. Grammar on the web, man. You can has it. :P

/typing elitist

[Ilaekae]

We're lucky we can get him to keep his damn pants on. As for the typing, he's idiosyncratic (as many of us are), but at least he doesn't bullshit or ewes webb sp33k, so get off your slightly high horse, please...

The only reason I'm even posting here is because he might have had only one hand, as two artists I'm friends with do, which makes the shift key a waste of board space. I also have a friend who collects and posts classic erotic comics who's blind. Wanna criticize him, too, because he sometimes gets them upside down? Whoops...I meant "Do you want to..." there. Sorry--I'm an uneducated idiot with a short fuse and a bad accent which comes through in my posts... Sorry. :P

[kab]

I quote the end of your first post: "How do you ensure a correct print..."

He answered, the fact that he didn´t use caps pales in comparison to your response. You wonder if you should bother asking questions? Well, that only hurts yourself, while it would hurt this entire community if people stopped answering questions because the people asking them don´t know what the hell they are asking.

Perhaps you should read your own post instead of asking if Grief did, because to me it seems he got the point of what you were asking just fine... did you? :)

Edit: and sorry if this sounds like I´m angry, I´m not, I just haven´t slept for 25 hours. :p

[Minkie]

Here's your answer:

yes. And yes it's common practice (among designers at least) and you should bring along pantone chips too, if you have them.

Why? Not all printers print the same, the have different ways of processing colors. Once those colors are put onto different papers? That alters it too. There will always be small discrepancies between the monitor and the print out. And your monitor might not be calibrated like theirs so the colors may show differently.

So yes, and yes.

I can tell you more if you'd like, of ask someone who knows better then me. I'm in a prepress class at the moment. Or you could ask one of your local printers.

[sodAp]

You have to consider that pigments can never be as bright as the colors in the monitor (spots of light). If you switch of the lights you still see the monitor but you cant see what's printed on a paper. So colors on the screen will be darker on paper.

Printing is done with CMYK instead of RGB, its better to check that you aren't putting too much ink on any color, there's a limit on the ink for cmyk printing system, the sum of CMYK should be lower than 250% (although this really depends on the printing system) and your black shouldn't be higher than 85% for any color (again, this is just a general indication). You can work in RGB and change the adjustments for converting to CMYK in photoshop so the program will do the job for you, you just select the total limit of ink, the limit of black ink, etc and it will be converted ok so you will have few surprises.

Also you must calibrate your monitor. And keep in mind that monitors are RGB additive mixing, while print work is sustractive (pigments, CMYK). Your monitor will always display RGB images, when you are looking at a RGB image you are looking to a lie, when you print it will be CMYK, and when you are looking at a cmyk image on your screen its a double lie, since the screen can only show RGB images but the printer will again print in CMYK.

Not an expert but this is what I know, hope it helps someone somehow