Clients Wanting to Buy Your Personal Work...?

[Mirana]

Okay, this might just be me in my weirdness and I might get flak from you lovely people for it, but I have to know...

Have you ever had a client approach you and want to buy all rights to a personal image/character(etc.) design? Did you jump on it? Did it weird you out and you said no? Does this even happen often??

A Client had previously licensed the use of a character design image I did for a personal college project, but now she's on a "I must buy ALL" kick and wants to just buy it outright. She pays well enough, but it just struck me as very odd. I have an attachment to it so I had to say no. Even though I feel like I'm somehow betraying my "freelancer make monies, yes?" standards.

Blargh. It's probably the lack of sleep talking...

[J Wilson]

I haven't had it happen to me yet, but I can understand why you'd get weirded out. I think we form natural attachments to what we do, especially if this was a personal project of yours. I remember reading in one of Michael Whelan's books where he described something similar. A client asked for all rights, and he initially said yes, but then he was haunted by all the possibilities he'd given up his claim to. What if he wanted to do a story or a movie based on the character? If I remember the story right, he essentially gave back a large amount of the money to buy the rights back (or passed up a large amount of money to retain the rights).

If you are really attached to the characters/concept you did the right thing. Money comes and goes, but selling those rights is forever.

[BlightedArt]

...I might get flak from you lovely people for it, but I have to know...

*Smack* No! :P There's no such thing as a flak-worthy question in my opinion!

Moving on: It's not strange at all that you reacted that way, most of us here would have. You have two mental boxes when it comes to freelancing and art: profitable and personal.

J Wilson pretty much got it with "Money comes and goes, but selling those rights is forever." You would've felt pretty unhappy if you sold something that's personal to you.

Alternatively it's also okay if you HAD agreed to their deal, because you're a freelance artist trying to make money. Either choice is fine, which's why you feel "strange" about the choice you chose. Personally I would have refused too.

[cantas]

i would sell it

[MiniGoth]

Honestly, if that character lies in your thoughts so often, and has potential for something else (paintings, drawings, comics, a book - whatever) that is so solid in your head, I'd feel the same way.

You can't have all the rights to my lil dude.

[paran0id]

Would it be a good idea if it was illegal/not possible to sell ALL rights to your creation untill you die? =P
Do I miss something crucial that would make such legislation idiotic?

[Qitsune]

Would it be a good idea if it was illegal/not possible to sell ALL rights to your creation untill you die? =P
Do I miss something crucial that would make such legislation idiotic?

That would remove my and other artists' right to do so. No one forces you to sell your rights, I don't see the point of removing a right which artists already have.
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As to the original topic, my bf always says" Give a price at which it won't hurt you if they accept." Meaning everyone has a price for anything. If you really like the art, give a very high price, the price has to be high enough that you are not going to have regrets, if that means the client won't buy, too bad for her.

+if one makes up stories about a character, selling the rights to a image of that character doesn't mean selling all the stories and potential, it just means you get to draw a new appearance for that dude.

[Mirana]

Haha, I would do as you suggested Q, but I don't want to be offensive to the client either. Such a tactic does work normally, though. I had a client I really didn't want to work with (baaaad attitude) and quoted a price I thought would scare them off. It didn't, but it was damn good money to make dealing with them (almost) worth it.

[paran0id]

The point would be that you never fully loose your RIGHTS to your artwork...
I dont see the point why you want to fully loose it? Well, I know that point: full rights are expensive, you make more money. But it is the market that creates this price. If nobody sells them, cause illegal, the prices adjust themself to the current max avaible sellable rights. The idea behind it is somewhat like the german ligeslation that forbids you to sell your organs. Nobody can pressure you legaly with economical means into selling them because it is not possible. Its is a patronization but at the same time a protection for you. So that you never would wind up without anything and/or without a pic you love, to be blunt.

I admit that such legislation is not easy to work out so loopholes and shit dont appear but imho it is a good idea. The new full* rights would allow corps to do with the artwork of yours what they want, like today but for example it could allow you to use it also or give it to corps only for fixed amount of time. Well, I am not an expert... =P

[geckochan]

Yeah, I'd say totally personal call on that one - we all do hundreds and hundreds of images, so the character/design in question might be one you have an attachment to, or it might not be.

If it was one I didn't have much attachment to, I guess my only concern would be what sort of client it was, to make sure it wouldn't be used for something I'd be uncomfortable with?

If it was one I liked, I guess it would depend how promising any ideas I had for it were, and how much I was being offered for it! (After all, if it's not one I'm *really* attached to, I can design others for myself!) One option might be to offer an alternative - if they like the design they might consider limited rights as better than nothing?

[Mirana]

Geckochan: The client is already licensing the work and commissioning me to do a new design that's based on my original, but owned by them. They want the original in addition to the new "based on" design and that's what I had a problem with.

Trust me, I tried pointing out that all-rights wasn't necessary or cost effective to their budget, but they had a set idea in their mind for what they wanted. :shrug:

[geckochan]

Ah, silly me figuring that rational explanation to the client would suffice! ^_~

Sorry to not be able to offer any more useful insight - I'm sure you'll do what you feel comfortable with though ^_^

[magnut]

Mirana,

I've had clients wanting to purchase the artwork that I did for them as a job.

It's a separate negotiation. Or an additional one, when you remind the client that what he's only paying for is the rights to use the images you create in whatever business context they need. To purchase the artwork is a separate business deal.

If they wish to include that into the negotiations, then they need to put it in writing, just as when you are creating (from scratch) any characters for a client, which falls under the category of a 'buyout', or 'development' fee. That buyout usually negates any need for you to chase the client (in perpetuity) for any residuals for your intellectual property creation being printed on a poster, underwear, notebooks, etc. They are literally buying your creation outright.

I've learned the hard way that you do NOT hand over the original to the client, who can easily claim the piece as their own property. Once they have the original in their hands, the burden is on you to get it back. That means court, and spending too much money to get it back. Send only scans. Protect yourself.

When you get the buyout, you run the risk of your creation going on to making millions of dollars for the client. Then you might have wished you got a bigger buyout, or made sure you attached yourself to a residual setup with the client. That would likely not to happen anyway, because no client wants you in their life once or twice a year, demanding to look at the books to determine the exact residuals you have coming to you from the use of characters you created for your client.

Conversely, you get a decent buyout for your characters, and the client's property falls flat on its face, and he makes no money. So you came out ahead.

This is why the buyout is the standard. And even then, it's the standard with clients/contractors who know what they're doing. Those who don't consider this clause in their agreements are doomed to being disappointed in 'getting screwed' by the clients, or they get their anger up and dive into a protracted court fight, simply because they were too ignorant or stupid to take care of this important detail upfront.

You have to educate your clients as you work for them. Make sure you have pertinent law to present to the client, as you would find in the Graphic Artists Guild - Pricing & Ethical Guidelines book.

But ultimately, you're the one who has to accept or reject each job, based upon your need for that month's rent, which might determine how much you're willing to compromise.

Good luck.

[Mirana]

Magnut: This is all great info for anyone who may stumble on this thread! Personally, I'm completely aware of everything you've said and do follow these practices.

My question was not about a client commissioning a NEW character in a job. It was about a client who saw one of my old personal projects on my site, licensed the use of it (which I had no problem with), but now just wants to buy it completely. The client is already commissioning a new design (based on the old ) with all-rights buy-out--of which they are paying appropriately. So, my thread was about how it stuck me as odd to want to buy rights to a character that wasn't even commissioned by them, and of which they were already getting appropriate use out of regardless.

I wanted to know if anyone else had experienced a sort of "walk in off the street and gimme THAT one!" kind of situation. :)

But again, thanks for the thoughtful info that would definitely help a new freelancer.

[magnut]

Mirana,

That client is smart enough to know that even your old projects are valuable commodities.

That's a great compliment to your work.

:)

[Mirana]

Haha, I wish. :P