Viridan/Pthalo Green

[DragonGX]

Are these 2 colors the same? I've heard that they're the same color, yet other sources tell me they aren't, and I think some companies even sell the 2 colors separately in the same color line. Can anyone clear that up for me?

Also what is the difference between a "hue" color? IE: Cadmium Orange Hue and Cadmium Orange

[Elwell]

Are these 2 colors the same?
Short answer: yes and no.
Long answer: while both are similar in hue (a dark blue-green) the are made from different pigments with very different properties. Veridian is hydrated chromium oxide, Pthalo green is chlorinated copper pthalocyanine. Pthalo is darker out of the tube, purer in color, more transparent, and much more powerful. In oils veridian is a better drier. Because of its extemely high tinting strength pthalo green can be harder to control in mixtures.
Also what is the difference between a "hue" color? IE: Cadmium Orange Hue and Cadmium Orange
"Hues" are pigments or (more commonly) mixtures of pigments that imitate the color or other properties of a more expensive or unavailable pigment. For instance, veridian has a tendancy to harden in the tube in acrylics, as well as being expensive, so some acrylic paint makers offer a "veridian hue" made of pthalo green plus some other pigments.

[MadSamoan]

Viridian's one of the expensive colors that I would also recommend using the best quality brand you can get. It has weak tinting strength to begin and if you're using a substandard brand of paint, it'll seem that no matter how much viridian you add to a mixture it just seems ineffective.

[DragonGX]

Ok thanks guys.

I know that Pthalo colors are very powerful, I learned that while using soem Pthalo blue..

I think I'll try soem Viridan first since its a little less powerful..

Right now I'm just using student grade oils while I learn. I dont want to waste so much money on nice artist oils just to get the basics down..

[gekitsu]

i suggest you get both and try which one you find handles better.

doerner on viridian:
transparent pigment, makes all copper greens obsolete, is not toxic and very stable. dries well. needs a lot of oil (100%).
pigment must not give color away in water and alcohol, if it does, it is not clean.

there is no specific entry doerner writes on "phtalo green" but he mentions a paint that is a phtalocyanine/copper pigment.
highly lightfast, can be used opaque as well as glazing and can replace all the non-lightfast transparent greens (such as sap green)

[tinyhands]

Well, something that no one mentioned yet, but maybe they meant to is that pthalos, and in your case pthalo green is a stain. All pthalos are stains, along with certain colors like alizirin crimson, and red rose and so on. And viridian green is not only less powerful, but its completely spineless. Its a very neutral green and is very is kill its pure pigment. But i prefer it to say pthalo, which i don't ever use or sap green which is really easy to mix from a viridian. I think of pthalos as sort of effects colors because of the inherent transparent nature they can do things other colors can't. But because of they're staining nature, they are very dangerous colors if you can't mix carefully.
Oh yeah, and if your a painter on a budget, like i'm sure we all are, go for the "hues" while not as powerful as their counterparts they can still look good and get the job done. And you'll save a bit too.:D

[DragonGX]

Originally posted by tinyhands
Well, something that no one mentioned yet, but maybe they meant to is that pthalos, and in your case pthalo green is a stain. All pthalos are stains, along with certain colors like alizirin crimson, and red rose and so on. And viridian green is not only less powerful, but its completely spineless. Its a very neutral green and is very is kill its pure pigment. But i prefer it to say pthalo, which i don't ever use or sap green which is really easy to mix from a viridian. I think of pthalos as sort of effects colors because of the inherent transparent nature they can do things other colors can't. But because of they're staining nature, they are very dangerous colors if you can't mix carefully.
Oh yeah, and if your a painter on a budget, like i'm sure we all are, go for the "hues" while not as powerful as their counterparts they can still look good and get the job done. And you'll save a bit too.:D


Thanks for the info Tiny and everyone else. I think I'm going to try Viridan first, I can always go pick up a tube of Pthalo later.. Phalo blue is extremely strong, I find it hard to use because itll overpower most colors unless jsut a tiny bit is mixed, and i figure Pthalo green will be the same.. Mayeb when i get better, Ill test out some Pthalo Green.. About the Hues, tiny, I always wondered abotu that, because I always saw them, almost the EXACT same color in the tube, but one was double the price of the other.. I think Ill saev my money and stick with hues :D

[gekitsu]

the downside to the hues is that they are compomised of several cheaper pigments. some kind of a pigment cocktail, so to say.
sometimes, there are up to 5 different pigments in one hue...

now, if you are mixing and are using a true pigment and a hue, there will be pigments in the hue that work "with" the true pigment, i.e. a cool red pigment mixes well into a warm blue pigment and there will be pigments that will work "against" the true pigment, like a warm red (like cad red or vermillion) and the aforementioned warm blue.
inevitably, the result of the mix will be duller than the mixture of two true pigment paints.
now imagine what a mess you make when mixing two hues with each other... at least half of the cocktail (more likely something about two-thirds or even more) will work against each other, graying your mixture unnecessarily.

i bought cheap paints, too because i thought i wont notice. but i tell you, there is a certain muddyness to everything i mix my cad yellow hue in as opposed to very "true" and "color" feeling when mixing single-pigment paints like the earth colors, phtalocyanine colors or the like.

[Jane Radstrom]

Wow. I've never done traditional painting before, I thought they were just pretty colors!! :p

[DragonGX]

Originally posted by gekitsu
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Danke fur der guten information, es ist sinnvoll!


Excuse my horrible german, I'm not very good at it, but Im trying!