I have no idea what's going on

[Jason Windsor]

I used to be inspired to make art by video games. Now people tell me video games aren't art. Well than why does it take a team of a 100 artists to make a game like Grand Theft Auto IV, and all using elements and principles of artistic design? I mean WTF? I'm not sure I want to do game design or animation anymore, I want people to call me an artist. I don't have a clue what kind of art to make if I'm not making "pop" art, I want to get paid too.

It's like saying The Beatles weren't artists because they didn't write classical music, it's the same as saying Hendrix wasn't an artist because he didn't write an overature. F**king Christ!

I don't know up from down anymore...

[Hyver]

just do what you enjoy doing, and hope you can make a decent buck out of it (that goes for people who enjoy masturbating too)

[Ilaekae]

Have you ever thought about this?

99.99% of everyone on the face of the earth doesn't know a damn thing about the 99.99% of the world beyond their immediate experience...basically, everyone's an idiot most of the time when they move beyond their personal knowledge base. Trust me, I know how it works, but you don't want me planning your next trip to the moon from the ground up. I can't even make mashed potatoes without almost killing myself.

So...we have to ask the logical question of why are you listening to these assholes?

[pok82]

Dude, video games are art. Most folks don't realize the kind of work that goes into game design. There's tons of concept art, probably more art being made for video games than the average sci-fi film. Most of the art that inspires me comes from comics and video games.

Chances are the folks telling you video games aren't art are folks who don't like that kind of work. I'm going to be blunt: f**k 'em. If you want to make art for video games, go for it. Let the art snobs sit poo-pooing in their corner. Don't let other people discourage you.

[cmalidore]

Are you pursuing art for yourself or others?

There's only two ways to answer, one involves you following what you love because their opinions are not educated answers, or you follow the one that makes them happy - where you paint rabbits and cottages and work as an accountant or something during the day.

Me? I'll follow my own bliss.

[Hyver]

here's another thought: next time you get comments like that, ask them what their definition of art is, exactly.

bonus points for them if they can actually give a decent answer

[Elwell]

1. Who are these "people" you're incessantly complaining about, and
2. Why do you care?

[Cepro]

These people probably only forgot to say "fine" before "art". Nothing to worry about.

[Dusty]

In reading many of your posts...I have come to find you dwell far too much on "people say" and "people think" and "people tell me".

Artists are free-thinkers, bro....do what you want, screw the rest of them.

-D

[Jason Windsor]

I keep thinking of the scene from Chasing Amy where Banky is sitting at the comic con signing autographs for all the freaks and nerds when Banky himself and his roommate are pretty normal. No wonder nobody respects what we do... look at who our fans are.

[cmalidore]

I will GLADLY take those freaks and nerds than the uppity art fans who are telling you that what you do isn't art. Is that really the mindset you want to encourage and fall prey to?

Dwelling is good to some extent - by questioning things we dig deep and find great answers, but there is a point where you start to damage your own self with it. You're putting too much into something that should ONLY be about you.

We all want to prove ourselves to somebody - the question is, have we found the right person to be proving ourselves to or are we picking the nearest warm body just cause they're looking at us.

[Jason Windsor]

The analogy works for game designers too.

[feifeicreate]

LOL...I know I know...you're upset because of that "video games and art don't mix" post, right? it started out with "artist don't play video games", and ended up with "video games are not art"...

well, to be honest, I'm not happy with that post either. Because I really believe one of those days, video games will be just like films today, we'll have a video game oscar, and we'll have people write "art history of video games", and art history professors will start teaching video games and its influence on our art. that's going to happen, and I believe I'll live to see it.

So cheer up, there're always close minded people around. and quite honestly, I don't like people calling me an artist, I'd rather be a happy creative craftsman, instead of depressing, cynical starving artist who creates something no one would understand (not even himself...LOL).

[D.C.]

Towelie?

But seriously: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art

From this link: http://www.csulb.edu/~jvancamp/361_r1.html
"#10. Now of course not all representational things are works of art, so the definition has only begun. I shall not take the next steps here. All I have wished to show is the way that the philosophy of art has deep questions to consider, questions of representation and reality, of structure, truth, and meaning. In considering these things, it moves from the periphery to the center of philosophy, and in so doing it curiously incorporates the two things that give rise to it. For when art attains the level of self-consciousness it has come to attain in our era, the distinction between art and philosophy becomes as problematic as the distinction between reality and art. And the degree to which the appreciation of art becomes a matter of applied philosophy can hardly be overestimated."

[dcorc]

..you're upset because of that "video games and art don't mix" post, right? it started out with "artist don't play video games", and ended up with "video games are not art"...

well, to be honest, I'm not happy with that post either. Because I really believe one of those days, video games will be just like films today, we'll have a video game oscar, and we'll have people write "art history of video games", and art history professors will start teaching video games and its influence on our art. that's going to happen, and I believe I'll live to see it.

Absolutely.

I commented on that thread, but to try to make the point that if you see yourself as a (games)artist, then you should be concentrating your efforts more towards actually making the games, rather than just being a consumer. Appreciation of the artistry of others is good too, of course.

[Dusty]

You should be posting on polycount.com, btw, if you aren't already.
That is a good place to get the support your obviously need in reassuring yourself that making games is a good thing to work towards.

-D

[chriskot]

I think video games are art, and that you should forget about whatever these people are saying.

That said, I also fail to understand your point above. These people are arguing that video games aren't art and you are arguing that video game art is art. These are two completely different things. Whether or not a video game is art, the concept artist, modelers, texture people and so on are still artists. That can't be argued against and I don't think that those people are trying to argue against it.

[Seedling]

Who are “they”? Why should their opinions matter? And why should it matter if your title is “artist” so long as you are doing what you want to be doing?

Artists get WAY too hung up over “being artists”.

[alesoun]

I don't like Marzipan. Never have. I can live the rest of my life happily if I never touch the stuff again. Can't understand why people would make it or mould it into shapes that other people would enjoy to look at, never mind eat.

For me, that is the truth; so it must be right, hey?

And if it's true and right for me, it must be a universal truth... do you see where I'm going?

If you like marzipan, or anything else, why should my opinion matter? Take what you're passionate about and run with it....

[kingkostas]

If you wanna feel better, just give them a W.I.P of how a game is developed.Then i guess they will be embarassed about what they said.
Video games are ART.A lot of things are art in our life and specially in 21th century so dont listen to noone and youll find the people that will enjoy your work.I dont understand the thing you said abou Amy.I enjoy his works i am a normal guy and i just wasnt able to go there to take some autograph or something.Fans are not only the ones that go next to the idol.
Anyway i will not say about philosophie and art again because i already told you in the previous thread you made(ever wonder...)

Just keep up mate :D

[Jason Windsor]

Somebody help me with this... It's been decades and people still think Gone With the Wind has cultural and artistic significance, it's been centuries and the same can be said of Shakespeare. Who will feel the same about Bioshock in 20 years?

On top of that I've always wanted to make art for a living because every job I have had has sucked ass. Now that I am a serious art student, studying everything from animation to 3D modelling to graphic and web design my crappy jobs are actually seeming like less work than my art homework is. It's not supposed to be this way!

[Elwell]

In an attempt to keep things somewhat under control, I've merged this with the thread it seems to be (?) referring too.

[Jasonwclark]

All I have wished to show is the way that the philosophy of art has deep questions to consider, questions of representation and reality, of structure, truth, and meaning. In considering these things, it moves from the periphery to the center of philosophy, and in so doing it curiously incorporates the two things that give rise to it. For when art attains the level of self-consciousness it has come to attain in our era, the distinction between art and philosophy becomes as problematic as the distinction between reality and art. And the degree to which the appreciation of art becomes a matter of applied philosophy can hardly be overestimated.

I'd avoid it like the plague if you can, but if you can't, then you should buy my friend's book (http://books.google.com/books?id=MRMOAAAAQAAJ&dq=The+Continental+Aesthetics+Reader&pg=PP1&ots=ek40ZF4zsI&sig=9nISwYRb6CjJ5qblde0iIv21X2Y&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPP1,M1) :)


Somebody help me with this... It's been decades and people still think Gone With the Wind has cultural and artistic significance, it's been centuries and the same can be said of Shakespeare. Who will feel the same about Bioshock in 20 years?

I don't know dude, but Baldur’s Gate and Masters of Orion II will have cultural and artistic significance on my hard drive for as long as I can afford one. To say nothing of Mario, or Ms. Pac Man, (or in my own case, the ultimate glory of the Centipede roller ball.)

"We will live forever!"

451057

Noooooo! Damn you Pinky!

[Jason Windsor]

I guess Doom is 20 years old now or almost anyway and it is still relevant. I think Carmack is working on or already has a perfect port for cell phones.
So I guess I'm wrong.

[jubjubjedi]

I guess Doom is 20 years old now or almost anyway and it is still relevant. I think Carmack is working on or already has a perfect port for cell phones.
So I guess I'm wrong.

Hey man, it's this a perpetual continuation of what should be an internal monologue, or a conversation?

[waranghira]

liek, dude, what's with these questions?

[Jason Windsor]

If I bounce these questions off you guys I'll probably get a fire under my ass again to pick up the pencil.