Tracing as a learning tool... your thoughts?

[ryfka]

Right, so. I've already asked around at deviantART (yes, groan) and now I'm curious. I've heard that this place is far more serious and that more professionals and the like come here. I've been lurking a bit today and I have to say, the atmosphere is a LOT different. Whoa. I feel like a mouse in a field of... um... buffalo or something.

So anyway, ConceptArt, what do you think of tracing?

In my (five-ish) years of exploring the internet and looking for art-related wisdom, I've heard tracing recommended as a learning tool many times. It baffles me, to be honest. Besides the obvious issue of it being, well, blatant theft, I tried it myself, and I didn't feel like I was learning anything (much unlike life drawing or using refs).

Personally, I think it's lazy, and traced work should not be posted on any art site as your own "work". Basically all you are doing is going over someone else's lines. You are a human Xerox machine.

And yet I've had people swear by it as one of the "best" ways to learn. O_o I'm open to new ideas. I've just yet to see this statement actually backed up well.

So. Do you think there's any value in tracing? Have you ever traced? Have your teachers/advisors ever said anything about tracing? Is it excusable for someone to trace if they're a "beginner?"

Penny for your thoughts.

[DavePalumbo]

you question is similar to this post:

http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134033&highlight=tracing

it's come up a number of times around here, though typically people aren't discussing the uses for educational purposes.

I think the moral angle (OMG, CHEATING!) is even more dubious here than in producing finished work. If you're examining the work of another artist to learn something by it, there is not theft involved. That's a very clear line that's only crossed when you display the work as your own without credit to the original source. It's no less theft to do a copy by simply looking at other artwork as reference, and master copies have been tradition to the learning process for centuries.

The question is how much you can get out of it. I personally feel the educational benefits are limited but do exist. It's the sort of stuff that you'll only get when you're ready to though. You can try tracing a bunch of drawings to learn the shapes and structures but without some basic anatomy and life observation it will not do you much good.

It's a method that can help supplement other areas of study. It's not necessary, I don't know if I'd ever really recommend it as a form of practice, but in some cases I can absolutely see how it might benefit your study.

[squidmonk3j]

i'd think the lesson is obvious....you learn what you practice. if u practice tracing, you become a good tracer. now, if you do lifedrawing, value studies, composition, anatomical studies etc etc...you will be able to use your tracing skills as a way to enhance/omit strengths and weaknesses in your work.

also, it's a very typical thing to do when starting out. like being 13 and jamming along to metallica on ur shitty electric guitar, trying to get the notes right and dreaming of being on stage.

of course, if tracing is all you do...a tracer is all you'll ever be.

[Mirana]

I agree with most of what Dave said, but I really don't think there's anything to learn with tracing. It's too disconnected from the act of DRAWING a piece. You're just following lines without gaining any understanding of how to arrive at this destination on your own.

Now, COPYING a work is much better. Now your brain is engaged and trying to work out the puzzle of how this artist created their work. It also helps you really look at all the detail of a piece instead of just glossing it over.

In either case, if you posted the work you should always credit the original work ("copy after artist "). I'm kinda "blah" on the idea of posting a copy (even master copies...I know I'll get crap for that :P) because it should be a study for your own learning and less a "look at what I can do!" experience. :shrug:

[J Wilson]

Completely depends on what form of "tracing" you are talking about.

Taking another artist's work and literally tracing it? Very very limited value, probably not even worth doing.

Tracing a photo to learn from? A little better, because there are choices that mirror the choices you make while drawing it. Which lines do you give weight to? Which forms do you pick out? Which details do you ignore, and which do you bring attention to? Etc. Of course there are also things you are NOT learning while tracing, such as proportions and composition etc. You really have to mostly know what you are doing in order to get anything out of tracing, and even then it's incomplete, so why not actually draw it?

Tracing professionally? Well, that's just smart and a good time saver a lot of the time. A few thoughts about it though. First, it's going to work best with someone who knows what they are doing, and are still making a LOT of decisions. Either you are adding in information that the photo doesn't provide, or you are making changes so your photo does what you'd like it to do. The artist part of your brain is still 100% functional, it's just taking a short cut to by pass things that no longer really concern you so you can work on other issues. Why draft out the perspective on a complicated city scene when you can model it up in 3d quick and then "trace" the important parts (more like paint over, but you get the idea). Draft over a photo of a model (that you shot yourself, or from a photo you had shot for your project), and trace some details while changing others. The purpose isn't to learn anything, it's to get the job done on time and have it look great.

[DavePalumbo]

I really don't think there's anything to learn with tracing. It's too disconnected from the act of DRAWING a piece. You're just following lines without gaining any understanding of how to arrive at this destination on your own.

this is why I feel like in some specific situations it can, theoretically, add to your study, but never take the place of your study. It won't teach you how to arrive there, but if you've already been working hard at learning your basics, it can help cement things. You can't just follow the lines, you need to be at a place where you're thinking about the lines you reproduce.

What's more, if you've just attempted a master copy (and I use "master" loosely) and then were to make a tracing of the same image, you'd be running a fine tooth comb over something which you've already looked at very closely. I should think that would help you to see even more clearly the places where you deviated and better understand the subtleties of the piece. I bet if you were to reattempt the master copy from eye after that, you'd see more improvement.

That's how I see it being useful: a way to solidify the things you should be learning from observation and practice. The more ways you think about and approach something, the better you're ultimately going to learn it, I say. It just needs lots of underlying foundation to do you any real good.

[cmalidore]

I think I'm with Dave on this one for the most part - there are times years ago when I'd do studies of trace work that solidified what I wasn't sure on. I'd tinker on things but something was off - a quick little "how would so and so do it?" later and suddenly it clarified a bit. The only problem this caused fo rme was some stylistic inconsistencies that needed to be ironed out. None the less, I did find that it worked as a comfort blanket in spots where I couldn't apply any confidence - and later because of it, I was able to turn it into my own.

So I think that while it's generally a crutch - there are points where it can help you say "oh..... so it CAN work that way".

[Black Spot]

I found it useful in learning how to draw cars. I’m not a car person and if someone asked me what type of vehicle it was, my stock answer was, “Red.” It made me aware of all the little bits like the trim, the moulded lines down the bonnet and the variety of wing mirrors and headlights. Also it helped in working out how to make reflections of the body and windscreen. So, as a tool for learning, I think it’s okay because I learnt tons.

[Gib]

Maybe its not exactly the kind of "tracing" you mean but as a child I was very proud of my self crafted pantagraph. Unfortunately it did'nt work so well in practice (always got someting destroyed: drawing paper or crayon and in the end the pantagraph) so I went back to my measuring units thumb and pinkie.


Btw; Leonardo da Vinci used transparent screens and also Albrecht Dürer was not "innocent". ;)

[Quofalcon]

I agree with most of what's posted in reply to this thread, so much is said already. I believe, personally that you do not improve in leaps in your skill or style when it comes to tracing. "You practice tracing, you'll be a good tracer." as said, and practicing tracing IMHO should be soley for the sake of tracing skillls itself: Cleaning linework, penciling, inking and over/redrawing lines needed.
I'm not very weak with tracing because I havn't practiced tracing hardly at all. I get shakey hands, stiff arm when it comes to inking, and that itself is simular to the subject of tracing itself. Tracing is a good skill to practice, but it won't improve your skills as you would drawing something else by observation as one another said here; it really uses the 'art engine' in yer brain, even when 'free hand tracing' another artpiece by observation.

-Quo

[Dusty]

When I was 12 years old and sucked horrible balls at drawing...I would absolutely trace comic books to help me understand the lines that I was seeing. This phase was very short, but important nonetheless, in my artistic development.

I don't think someone in their 20's will learn much from tracing...but as a child who's brain was still developing artistically, I really felt that it helped me in many areas.

I wouldn't say it's an ESSENTIAL step (i.e. you obviously don't need the step to proceed to greatness), but it helped me....and I'm sure it helps others.

-D

[paramnesia]

I'm in the same boat as Dave. I traced goring up, and I suspect a significant number of people went through this phase. It's natural as a kid. You go from coloring books -- stay within the lines -- to experimenting to tracing to, hopefully, copying (which I agree with Mirana can be useful) and doing your own original scribbles.

"Look, Mommy, a furry three headed unicorn monster I shall call Mr. Wibbles."