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Spiralfish
August 23rd, 2008, 02:41 AM
This is one of my first times posting in the finally finished form, if the placement of this thread is inappropriate, please move accordingly. Thank you.

I'd like to really polish up the design on these with the criticisms received here.

http://mandible.helenzhu.com/Gallery/Sketches/Sachoma.jpg

NathanLong
August 23rd, 2008, 03:46 AM
These are cool and very weird. I keep staring at them trying to figure out how they work. A good thing, I think.

Mattinian
August 23rd, 2008, 06:20 AM
good work as designs you`d have to give us some background on the creature`s enviroment what they`ve specialized in
doing/eating/hunting... why would the fist beastie have an extra pair of legs for instance, or the second one`s buzzsaw
mouth and exposed jaw muscles. the last one i like the mostl because it`s so surrealistic :]

Duman
August 23rd, 2008, 07:24 AM
If you want critiques, go to the appropriate section, which I discourage because these are great. These are phenomenal designs, some of the most unique and interesting formations I have seen in a while. You are quickly becoming my favorite creature designer out there. I have to stress the variety here, and you manage to do that, while keeping them realistic. Fantastic job!

A church monster, HA!

Lotet
August 23rd, 2008, 11:28 AM
these make no sence at all lol.
though they DO look cool ^^

Spiralfish
August 23rd, 2008, 11:38 AM
you`d have to give us some background on the creature`s enviroment what they`ve specialized in
doing/eating/hunting... why would the fist beastie have an extra pair of legs for instance, or the second one`s buzzsaw
mouth and exposed jaw muscles.

The Blue Creature Doesn't have extra legs.
It's bipedal, but it's primary mode of locomotion are it's front limbs. So the creature lumbers around on it's front legs and uses it's hind feet as hands.

The Red and Black thing has no eyes and no mandible (lower jaw). It's premaxilla (front part of upper jaw) folds down to become a hinging interface. It uses it's large prehensile tongue to feed and manipulate things.

Walking Cathedral had several earlier iterations, including this one... But it had perspective and design issues so I redrew it.

http://helenzhu.com/temp/cathedralwalker.jpg

I think the current version (first post) needs to be reworked more, as it doesnt seem imposing enough.




I try to resolve the anatomy and background first, but what I really need to know is how i can resolve all of them better as designs.

Do you feel that the Red and Black creature need more red in the back to tie things together?

Baron Impossible
August 23rd, 2008, 12:12 PM
Pretty cool designs, well executed. My favourite is No. 2, love the backwards mouth.

No. 1's rear legs are well done, oddly viable, although it would be improved if you actually had the beast doing something to show it used its rear legs as arms, or even a second beast in the background in a different pose. Not keen on the outline around its ass / tail region - makes it look flat.

I notice all your feet look similar and none of the foot designs seem particularly relevant to the creature that's wearing them. Default reptile feet.

The last one is bizarre. I like it although more visible integration of stone and flesh would be nice, plus some other touches like maybe its guts and organs (internal not musical) tied together with rope or its chin in the shape of huge steps. Also, I think he'd have trouble unsheathing his sword (do cathedrals have swords?)

Spiralfish
August 23rd, 2008, 01:08 PM
I notice all your feet look similar and none of the foot designs seem particularly relevant to the creature that's wearing them. Default reptile feet.

GOOD CALL.... this is something I will definitely watch out for in the future.

Thank you!

HunterKiller_
August 23rd, 2008, 07:15 PM
Walking Cathedral is flippin' crazy! Nice.
Ace.

Moai
August 23rd, 2008, 07:57 PM
These are the best creature designs I've seen around here in quite a while. Really, spectacularly unique and creative creature designs!
I have a few critiques.
-The first creature is fantastic. Great design, great color scheme. However, its mouth is very strange, and as cool as it looks, it seems impractical. The mouth to be in its "closed" position, but it is nevertheless open rather wide, and would have to open its mouth even wider to try to eat anything. I can imagine some sort of evolutionary scenario that would have let to a mouth like that--this species uses its mouthparts as a hammer and anvil to smash open shelled food items, and sexual selection for strong mouthparts has let to a hypertrophied prong/beak on its upper jaw, or something like that--but it's a bit awkward nevertheless.
-Also on the first creature, the knee joint makes too much of a tangent with the shape of the chest.
-For the second creature, I do indeed feel that there needs to be a dash of red towards the back to tie the design together. Not too much, though!
-The jaw and mouth apparatus of the second creature is absolutely wonderful. I can easily imagine the struts of its neck moving in an accordion-like fashion as the head rolls forward, the exposed muscles and tendons contracting as the jaw swings open, the slobbery tongue rolling out to probe around, and the whole thing quickly and savagely snapping closed again once the prey is caught. Again, wonderful!
The thing that bugs me about it, though, is that the tongue seems awfully exposed to that Helicoprion-esque row of teeth. The tongue is so thick and fleshy, I can't help but imagine that it would get in the way as the premaxilla snapped upwards to drive prey into that tooth whorl. Does the tongue just retract super-quick as the jaw closes?
-The red is too intense. Even if those are supposed to be bioluminescent color patches, they could still be toned down.
-I keep imagining this second creature with its jaws closed and its head folded into its neck cavity. If this is indeed how that structure functions, a view of it like that would be great.
-For the far leg on the second creature, there seems to be a hole through the upper leg that isn't visible on the nearer leg. This is strange. I'd make the whole leg solid, except for that one hole down towards the bottom of the legs that is visible in the nearer leg.
-Finally, again for the second creature, the row of radiating blades on the leading edge of the thigh is unnecessary. It goes against the flow of the design and doesn't seem to serve any function. I suggest that you get rid of it.
-The color scheme of the third creature is brilliant. The lower neck/clavicle/chest region is too flat and human-like for me, though.
-The catherdral monster is an excellent concept and design. I can easily imagine this as a sort of flagship for some sort of evil messiah character. As far as critiques on the design go, I preferred the earlier version of the bridge between the front and back sections. Also, the design of the front limbs bugs me, for some reason.
-My last critique had to do with your technique. Your drawing skills are strong, but your painting skills are much less so. Your brushstrokes are often overly soft and indistinct and do not describe the form very well. On the first creature, you described the form of the neck well, but the legs and rear end of the body are flat. Except for its mouthparts, the rendering of the second creature is flat. Ditto on the third creature. The Walking Cathedral doesn't have this problem for the most part, because you laid in the colors and values with the specific intention of describing light and shadow, so it's not nearly as flat. For the rest of your creatures, make the brushstrokes that you place under your linework a bit harder and more assertive, and more descriptive of form and detail.
For some instruction and inspiration related to my last critique, look up posts by M.C.Barrett. He's an artist working for ArenaNet, and you can find his work in the various Guild Wars threads that have been posted here. He's a great creature designer, and he's also very strong when it comes to rendering texture, lighting, and form on his creatures.

One more time, wonderful creature designs!

these make no sence at all lol.

Sure they do. They just aren't as familiar and obviously based on Earthly animals as most creature designs that we see here.

The Acidraptor
August 24th, 2008, 01:57 AM
Very unique & odd in many aspects...

Dahami
August 24th, 2008, 02:27 AM
Wayne Douglas Barlowe's Expedition and the DVD Alien Planet... That's what they remind me of. Good stuff, but I doubt you went to as much trouble to provide the biological justifications for them and so forth that Barlowe did.

tschahri
August 24th, 2008, 08:29 AM
Oh my, I really love these. Beautiful designs, gotta be one of my favourites I've seen here recently.
I don't know if it's just me, but I didn't quite catch how the first one's mouth worked until I read Moai's critique about it. Maybe define the jaws a little more so that they don't seem to be grown together (it was hard to tell whether that vertical part belonged to the upper or to the lower jaw)? Beautiful colours on this one.
As for the second creature, I'll have to be repetitive about the tongue - it does seem to be too close to that cool buzzsaw of teeth. I'm not sure if it could rip apart the prey but leave the tongue unharmed at the same time.
The third one looks awesome, I really love the colours! Would be nice to see the whole body of this one.

Keep it up, these are lovely.

Twisted Synapses
August 24th, 2008, 12:11 PM
I love the second image... gives me this sick image of it catching some other, smaller bizarre alien being in it's mouth and a massive shower of gore splashing back into it's chest cavity for digestion =( Amazing work man, I really hope to see more of this stuff!

pocko
August 24th, 2008, 01:35 PM
i love the third! i think its the colours and the grounding in reality.

Nickodemus
August 24th, 2008, 01:38 PM
some interesting approaches here...

Spiralfish
August 25th, 2008, 01:19 AM
MOAI

I would like to apologize for not getting back to you sooner...

When I read your your criticism last night, I felt that it was easily the one of the most detailed and relevant crits Ive ever gotten online..... It's the type of crit that I live for....

The issues that you brought up were so valid that I spent much of today refining and reworking the design in attempt to address these concerns.

I cant thank you enough for all the time and thought that you put into helping me improve my work...

Creature 1

However, its mouth is very strange, and as cool as it looks, it seems impractical.

I didnt put too much thought into the practicability of this creature... I thought of him as a large monument like creature that loomed high overhead and lumbered slowly across the landscape like a living backdrop.... I wanted to make his silhouette interesting... he's really not too well thought out..
Also on the first creature, the knee joint makes too much of a tangent with the shape of the chest.

Yeah that bothered me too... I'll pay attention to it when I redraw him.


Creature 2

For the second creature, I do indeed feel that there needs to be a dash of red towards the back to tie the design together.

I knew it! Im glad that it's not just me.

The red is too intense. Even if those are supposed to be bioluminescent color patches, they could still be toned down.

I want him to to have mostly dark and menacing but still have "distance impact"

I think overall, Im unhappy with the cliched patterning... the stripes dont look foreign enough. Suggestions?

for the second creature, the row of radiating blades on the leading edge of the thigh is unnecessary. It goes against the flow of the design and doesn't seem to serve any function. I suggest that you get rid of it.

I did feel that they looked out of place...but the thigh area looks bad with out anything to disrupt the smooth curve of the outline of the thigh... maybe something that flows better with the form?

....The tongue, the jaw...The thing that bugs me about it, though, is that the tongue seems awfully exposed to that Helicoprion-esque row of teeth.
here's how it works:

http://helenzhu.com/temp/wheelhead3.jpg

So basically when the creature opens it's mouth, it's entire head bends downwards on a flexible hinge so that the tooth plates lower...when the jaw is closed, the teeth go back up...

http://helenzhu.com/temp/wheelhead5.jpg

The prehensile tongue hangs through a groove in the premaxilla when the jaw is closed... Essentially, the tongue is it's main manipulating limb... the creature doesnt have to open it's mouth to use it's tongue.
When not eating, the tongue hangs like an elephant's trunk through the shallow groove in the premaxilla and can be used to pick up things off the ground, groom itself, etc.... sense organs in the tip allow it to trail prey...

http://helenzhu.com/temp/wheelhead4.jpg

The tongue is contractile. Radiating muscel fibers arranged around a central tendon allow it to become considerably shorter.

http://helenzhu.com/temp/wheelhead1.jpg

This is how it eats...

After reading through the criticism.. I decided that it would make more sense to have the tooth plates paired. This would allow the tongue to settle between the tooth plates. Prey is dismembered into manageably sized chunks by being grasped by the tongue and pulled between the toothplates.

They just aren't as familiar and obviously based on Earthly animals as most creature designs that we see here.

This is just based on a standard reptilian skull....

http://helenzhu.com/temp/wheelhead2.jpg

based on my understanding of skull anatomy, I tried to answer the question "What if the mandible and hyoid had not evolved ?"

For the far leg on the second creature, there seems to be a hole through the upper leg that isn't visible on the nearer leg. This is strange. I'd make the whole leg solid, except for that one hole down towards the bottom of the legs that is visible in the nearer leg.

Youre right.....

I redesigned the leg... the leg anatomy in the original image is really confused.

http://helenzhu.com/temp/wheelhead6.jpg

I wanted to do a 4 bar linkage for the structure of the leg and the foot. This is a large ambush predator.... It need a graviportal limb structure, but also be fast for short distances.

http://helenzhu.com/temp/wheelhead7.jpg

Right now Im still unsatisfied with the overall body form... it needs to be less dinosaur-like.

Cathedral Walker

I can easily imagine this as a sort of flagship for some sort of evil messiah character.

Yeah! Im glad you think so! Especially when the "eye" is actually the end of the bit in it's mouth.... The creature is blind, it has no eyes.... the illusion of it having it's own eyes is actually the bit that leads it around... a function of being controlled.... Analogous to situations in which religious leaders use the illusion of enlightenment and spirituality for their own social and political ends.

I preferred the earlier version of the bridge between the front and back sections. Also, the design of the front limbs bugs me, for some reason.

I like the bridge too... I need to bring it back.. I felt like there was too much stuff going on in version one.... the paws are really cliched and make the creature look smaller than it actually is.... At the same time I want them to impart a sens of ferocity.... maybe they need to be thinner...

My last critique had to do with your technique. Your drawing skills are strong, but your painting skills are much less so. Your brushstrokes are often overly soft and indistinct and do not describe the form very well. On the first creature, you described the form of the neck well, but the legs and rear end of the body are flat. Except for its mouthparts, the rendering of the second creature is flat. Ditto on the third creature. The Walking Cathedral doesn't have this problem for the most part, because you laid in the colors and values with the specific intention of describing light and shadow, so it's not nearly as flat. For the rest of your creatures, make the brushstrokes that you place under your linework a bit harder and more assertive, and more descriptive of form and detail.

Thanks.... I think by far, my painting ability is one of my weakest areas... it frustrates me greatly when I fail to convincingly render the creatures Ive drawn.... I have a few other creatures, I'll try using harder strokes...



Thank you.... Thank you ALL for your great suggestions... I cant tell you guys how much I appreciate all your criticism.

Thank you so much for pushing me to reconsider and resolve my designs, pointing out weak areas and suggesting solutions.

Moai
August 27th, 2008, 01:40 PM
When I read your your criticism last night, I felt that it was easily the one of the most detailed and relevant crits Ive ever gotten online..... It's the type of crit that I live for....
And it's responses like these that make giving a detailed critique worth the effort.:rendered: I'm glad to be of help, especially when there are cool creature designs involved.

I didnt put too much thought into the practicability of this creature... I thought of him as a large monument like creature that loomed high overhead and lumbered slowly across the landscape like a living backdrop.... I wanted to make his silhouette interesting... he's really not too well thought out..
Sometimes form is more important than function; sometimes you just want to make a good-looking creature without worrying if every feature is as practical and efficient as possible. And that's okay. In The Alien Life of Wayne Barlowe, the eponymous artist, describing some of his "Expedition" paintings, wrote that it's okay to design alien creatures with features that don't have an obvious function, because it gives the creature a sense of mystery and alien-ness. If your purpose of this creature is to make him large, monolithic, and alien, then there's no real need to change the odder aspects of its design.

I want him to to have mostly dark and menacing but still have "distance impact"

I think overall, Im unhappy with the cliched patterning... the stripes dont look foreign enough. Suggestions?
I still think the red is a little too bright.
True, the stripes aren't very interesting or unique. I have a few suggestions on how to perhaps get some new ideas for its markings. One idea is to have the markings echo other elements of the creature design. Perhaps some radiating, spiraling markings that echo the teeth rows or the tongue, or some angular markings that echo the shape of the jaws and head. Another idea is to put some thought into what kind of environment in which this creature evolved, and do some markings that are appropriate for that.
Personally, I think a pattern of angular, intersecting lines would look good on the neck. It would echo the shape of the head and the struts of the throat. Then, maybe do some less angular, more irregular markings on another part of the body. This would emphasize both the highly-adapted, almost mechanical nature of the head, and the fact that this is nevertheless a savage wild animal. Just tossing an idea out there.
For inspiration, perhaps check out the work of this paleo-artist: http://csotonyi.com/PrehistoryPaint.html. Some of his dinosaurs have interesting and unique--almost outlandish--coloring patterns. And of course, there's always nature for inspiration.

for the second creature, the row of radiating blades on the leading edge of the thigh is unnecessary. It goes against the flow of the design and doesn't seem to serve any function. I suggest that you get rid of it.
I did feel that they looked out of place...but the thigh area looks bad with out anything to disrupt the smooth curve of the outline of the thigh... maybe something that flows better with the form?
I actually don't think the thigh would look bad without anything on it. It'd be a nice island of smoothness in the design, a good contrast from all the detail in the head. Plus, it'd be a good place to indicate the creature's musculature. However, if you do want something there, perhaps just take those ridges and just have them all point downward. That way, they'd go along with the flow of the leg.

Thank you for the explanation on how the second creature's jaw functions and evolved. The drawings have a great sketchy-but-controlled quality. You are a good draftsman. I really like the image of the creature holding onto its prey. I like the gripping surface you drew on the tongue; that's a nice detail.
The image of how it evolved is also very interesting. I think your initial concept--what would happen if no lower jaw evolved--has a lot of room for exploration and the creation of other creature designs. You can have less-derived creatures that just use their toothy heads as hammers to bludgeon prey, sword-heads, sickle-heads, creatures where the premaxilla segment is used as a stabbing fang, or used as a signaling and communication device, or a sexual display. Lots of possibilities!

Neat work on the limb structure, too. The "toe" part of the farther foot seems a good bit shorter than the toe part of the closer foot, though. Perhaps clarify how each of these joints flexes and extends as the creature walks.

Right now Im still unsatisfied with the overall body form... it needs to be less dinosaur-like.
I don't really know what to tell you there. The therapod dinosaur body design is pretty much just the standard biped design. The only thing I can recommend is to just play with the body proportions until you get something that's not so reminiscent of a dinosaur.

the paws are really cliched and make the creature look smaller than it actually is.... At the same time I want them to impart a sens of ferocity.... maybe they need to be thinner...
Yeah, I agree with the earlier critique of the feet you draw being rather generic. It's easy to neglect feet.
The thing I didn't like about the front feet is that they don't feel very stable, somehow. They're too far up on the body, and too short and bowed, and go to the ground at too shallow of an angle. The feet are too big, also. In my opinion.
What I think would look better would be to place them further down on the body and give them more of a semi-sprawling, Moschops (http://leute.server.de/frankmuster/M/Moschops.htm)-like stance. Having the lower segment of the front limb go straight down in a pillar-like stance makes the limb look stronger and better able to support the creature's probably hefty weight, while having the humerus project outward from the body makes the creature look tougher, kind of like a bulldog.

And there you go. I'm eager to see how you take these designs further.:rendered:

Carbono
August 27th, 2008, 05:47 PM
What can I say?
if i was rich i would print this topic in giant posters and stick it on my room, everytime i would felt down with art i would read it and feel better.

Those creatures are amazing, they remind me the first time i saw an Oddworld game. I was like... "how can someone think of something so different?". As the years go by, most artists realize the "truth" of creativity: you create new things using parts from old things... And that, may sound very restritive, like a prision for the "creativity", but its the contrary, you show how we can use crazy things for inspiration and end up with a cool and unique design. HR Giger would be proud.

Second, Moai critiques and your answers, your explanations of how things work, that was nice. I wish more people would put this effort in their designs. So, really.

I can't really crit your creatures because Moai already said everything i feel like saying (and much, much more).
My favorite creature is the second one, really nice.

Keep it up bro!

Sir Bret
August 27th, 2008, 08:32 PM
These are so damn cool... the best bit is how thought out your creatures are.

Rezeroth
August 28th, 2008, 08:30 AM
Really interesting. Very fresh design on the anatomy. Good stuff :D

KonnA
August 28th, 2008, 10:08 AM
Cool but I don't understand...

Misplacedhippos
August 28th, 2008, 10:29 AM
Wow, second creature is especially awesome.

Spiralfish
August 29th, 2008, 02:11 AM
Thanks for you comments and critiques.

MOAI: Apologies for the delay. Thanks so much again for the valuable suggestions and critique.

Im reworking the black wheelfaced creature and the Cathedral creature.... I'll get back in a couple of days with some reworkings.

Daniel Andrews
August 29th, 2008, 08:53 PM
I appreciate that you really worked out there functionality as apposed to just slapping pieces from this and forgetting of how the creature would exist/survive/become believable.
Excellent work!

AquilaAscendent
August 29th, 2008, 10:50 PM
I believe that these are fantastic creature designs, all of whch would look completely in place in any fantasy/sci-fi epic. I do have a question about the second creature though. You stated that it had no eyes, but was a large ambush predator, and, from what I can tell from your "attack" sketch, lives in a forested area. So, how does it find, stalk, and strike at prey while avoiding things such as trees, rock, and other obstacles? I don't want to just assume something such as echo-location, as I don't remember reptiles being very advanced in terms of hearing.

bleupencil
August 30th, 2008, 01:56 AM
I find these critters utterly fascinating! Highly imaginitive and unique as has been said previously here. I think I'll be watching your work with great interest from now on :)

Great stuff!

Spiralfish
September 13th, 2008, 08:07 PM
I tried to polish this up.

Thanks for all the help.


I think it should be a pack hunting predator that cooperatively draws and quarter's it's prey.

daverocho
September 13th, 2008, 08:21 PM
nice update! i like it better!

spotfrog
September 13th, 2008, 11:47 PM
That wheeltooth creature is wicked, the only critique I have is the open nature of the 'throat'... it seems like it would get awfully annoying for the creature to have to dislodge meat and bones that might get stuck there... and of course, bits of food would get lost in the process. Perhaps you could maintain the effect by having a semitransparent skin cover everything?

BANNED_For_POOPY_PANTS
September 14th, 2008, 02:14 AM
oMG this is amazing! Bookmarked!

Velocity Kendall
September 14th, 2008, 07:52 AM
I really enjoyed the dialogue between Spiralfish and Moai here, its a great example of how criticism and professionality can really strengthen design work.

Dorkthrone
September 14th, 2008, 08:19 AM
I love how you took a good look at the creatures' design and anatomy.

Spiralfish
September 14th, 2008, 10:48 AM
MOAI: Sorry for the delay.

I still think the red is a little too bright.
True, the stripes aren't very interesting or unique. I have a few suggestions on how to perhaps get some new ideas for its markings. One idea is to have the markings echo other elements of the creature design.

I went ahead and toned down the red a little bit and worked with the stripes a little so they look less painted on. It does look better. Added some red to the back to balance it out. Thanks for the csotonyi link.

I actually don't think the thigh would look bad without anything on it. It'd be a nice island of smoothness in the design, a good contrast from all the detail in the head. Plus, it'd be a good place to indicate the creature's musculature.

After experiementing with a number of different spike patterns,... I have to agree that it does look best smooth.

The musculature of the leg has an unnatural awkwardness to it, I'm not sure if the musculature in the leg is correct.

Your drawing skills are strong, but your painting skills are much less so. Your brushstrokes are often overly soft and indistinct and do not describe the form very well. I tried to really bring a sense of material and texture to the head shot. I think it worked on only a few areas. I think alot of my rendering breaks down at the dark skin texture. I'm having difficulty determining a material for that.

For the far leg on the second creature, there seems to be a hole through the upper leg that isn't visible on the nearer leg. This is strange. I'd make the whole leg solid, except for that one hole down towards the bottom of the legs that is visible in the nearer leg.

I redrew this. Do you think it matches up anatomically now ?

SPOTFROG

That wheeltooth creature is wicked, the only critique I have is the open nature of the 'throat'... it seems like it would get awfully annoying for the creature to have to dislodge meat and bones that might get stuck there... and of course, bits of food would get lost in the process. Perhaps you could maintain the effect by having a semitransparent skin cover everything?

Good call,.....I considered this briefly, but wasnt too sure about it. I like the perforated silhouette from a design standpoint, and also the emphasis on the thinness of the neck with the large expanding nature of the throat. I think it could work if the skin was transparent enough, perhaps a very thin striated membrane. I'll experiment with it. Thanks

I cant thank everyone enough for taking the time to offer valuable advice and insight.

Angroc
September 16th, 2008, 01:15 AM
this is truly awesome. i love how thorough you are with your concepts!

Mister Lister
September 18th, 2008, 02:35 AM
well done! beautiful concept

Moai
September 22nd, 2008, 08:53 PM
I went ahead and toned down the red a little bit and worked with the stripes a little so they look less painted on. It does look better. Added some red to the back to balance it out. Thanks for the csotonyi link.

I'm sorry to say this, but...I still think the red is too bright.:rendered: If you're happy with it, though, then I'll just let it go.

The musculature of the leg has an unnatural awkwardness to it, I'm not sure if the musculature in the leg is correct.

I actually think the leg musculature looks fine. It's reminiscent of both the front leg and back leg musculature of tetrapods. The muscles on the "thigh" could be read as either supraspinatus, deltoid, etc. or quadraceps, biceps femoris, etc. It looks plausible. If you still think it looks awkward, though, here is a link (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/WebZ/initialize?sessionid=0&javascript=true&dbchoice=1&active=1&entityCurrentPage=Search1&dbname=Science&style=Science&next=NEXTCMD%7FSortedQuery?&context;&termsrch=%28ti%3D+%28Veterinary+Anatomical+lllustr ations%29%29&fmtclass=gallery&next=html/nfbrief.html&bad=error/badsearch.html&entitytoprecno=1&entitycurrecno=1&entitytempjds=TRUE&numrecs=12%7F) to several anatomical plates from Ellenberger's animal anatomy book. You should find all the musculature you need there.:rendered:

I tried to really bring a sense of material and texture to the head shot. I think it worked on only a few areas. I think alot of my rendering breaks down at the dark skin texture. I'm having difficulty determining a material for that.

I'm not seeing much texture on the head shot, I'm sorry to say. There's a much better sense of skin texture on the fully body view. I think you need to just specifically decide what kind of texture you want for the head. Is it scaly? Does have large scales like on the face of an iguana (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Iguana_iguana_head.jpg), or small, round, pebbly scales like a chameleon (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Chameleon_2006-01.jpg)? Or instead of scales, are the different segments of its head covered with armor-like plates? Do those armor plates have a texture like a turtle shell (http://photography.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/Photography/Images/Content/snapping-turtle-shell-410637-sw.jpg), or like a beetle's exoskeleton (http://www.ent.iastate.edu/images/coleoptera/scarabaeidae/japanese_beetle_adult.jpg)? Or does it have leathery skin like a rhinoceros (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Sa-rhino-skin.jpg)? Be very specific when deciding what kind of texture you want to go for.

I redrew this. Do you think it matches up anatomically now?

Much better!

Whether you take these further or not, great work. Your creature designs are an inspiration to me.