Agression(first post)

[Lyndsay Harper]

Okay i just found this site, so this is my first post. If it isn't good enough for finished art, please don't be an ass about it(my friend keeps relentlessly explaining how nice you folk are, but i'm always apprehensive about new things. So sorry if they comes off as rude :o), just send me a note and move it :)

I'm being rushed here, so i have to make this quick, but atm i consider this finished. But i've been wrong before about these things...

I have a DA, only because i didn't know of any other art orientated site that wasn't pure trash (until about an hour ago ;) ), i know some fairly decent artists at DA.

http://fc06.deviantart.com/fs32/i/2008/225/8/e/Aggressive_by_joker_vincent_taylor.png

My work is very stylized, And i never. ever. EVER get any critique on it. never do...And i don't mean that from an ego point of view, im always looking for new thoughts on it. The only negative comments i've received are from 420chan and they just said it sucked dick... So i eagerly joined this place. The problem i think is because i have such a developed "style" so when i apply it to the human form, any "mistake" can be perceived as just expression, caricature or intended exaggeration. and since all my "finished" work is drafted, drawn then inked and painted. Its rare that i include something "accidental" in the line work...

So i'm going to post this... and check back tomorrow and i'll see what to do from there. Sorry if i've broken any forum conventions. I'm being a bit impatient here ;P

[Ilaekae]

First off, you'd benefit from an attitude adjustment. Your first post is an arrogant tirade, then you set a deadline for the people reading it to adhere to. Nice. Makes me wanna just be as helpful as I can...

You wanna crit, here's a crit. You can check my Asshole Quotient, art ability and general demeanor by taking a look around with the search tool.

1. Get in the habit of squaring up your art before you post it. Tiny thing--looks professional, like you care about details.

2. Basic drawing--You're doing some things that are just plain slipshod, no matter what style you use. (right and left refer to your person's right and left) The right arm is a mess at the shoulder junction. No matter how deformed, there are certain arrangements of muscles that are necessary for the arm to work, so that darkish shadow of the armpit is just in the wrong place. There should be a muscle mass there. The lower part of the arm looks bent in a curve to the right, which I can't find a legitimate design reason for, so lets call it a mistake. I'm also thinking there's a bit too much mass where the last two fingers attach to the right hand. Take a good look there and see if you can streamline it a bit.

It's difficult to determine how the legs would work and how they're attached to the torso--like there's no hip joint or solid attachment points that would make logical sense. Did you plan this (say. like a mermaid/snake kind of thing) or are we looking at another problem?

The critter's left arm is whack. Continue the line from the shoulder down to the logical location for an elbow and you end up right right below where that black hairy mass is under the ribcage. That would make it kind of hard to have a big chunk of arm appearing as you have it behind his back. I'll buy the bastard being hairy, but --sorry--no one is that hairy....

Now we have a left hand that is or is not in the right place that appears to have a sleeve on it that's made out of hair. Is this what you wanted? if not, fix the damn thing. The fingers here are also hatched in such a way that they don't make sense directionally--and why so much hatch detail here and nowhere else?

Your torso needs some work. It sort of looks like you didn't know where to go after you did the pecs. The rib cage is distorted and just a mess of nebulous shapes that don't seem to make sense. Then we drop to a belly that seems twisted...it doesn't follow the perspective of the rib cage, which in turn doesn't follow the perspective of the pecs.

I won't touch the head, because I don't quite know what you were going for here, and i really can't determine what is lower face and what is hair.

3. Color--Inconsistent would be a good description. You jump from controlled fairly saturated color to nitty-picky daubs of muddy color. This indicates you don't quite know where to go next, so I'd suggest doing a little advance planning and maybe some quicky color studies first to get a better idea of what should be going where. The color treatment on the body completely falls apart from the waist down--that furry treatment is just not working, and with the same treatment on the hands, you have a problem here with separation where they overlap.

Question...

Did you mean to make that bar at the right, and why?

Will that do for a start?

[Lyndsay Harper]

First off, you'd benefit from an attitude adjustment. Your first post is an arrogant tirade, then you set a deadline for the people reading it to adhere to. Nice. Makes me wanna just be as helpful as I can...

Sorry if it seemed that way, i tried to explain that i was being rushed. Apparantly i come off as a dickhead on the internet but im really just trying to get straight to the point. So im very blunt.
I didn't really set a "deadline" i was trying to say "I'm not waiting for anything, but if you want to know when I'll read your post" I wasn't being very polite because i was being rushed to get off the silly computer :P And i was very enthusiastic to post here =D


First off, i really want to say thank you. Because no one has ever done this before, I wish i could hug you or something! I saw how much amazing advice everyone got, and even though it was right there in front of me... Well I've just never gotten anything negative...
1. Get in the habit of squaring up your art before you post it. Tiny thing--looks professional, like you care about details.
When you wrote this, in conjunction with what you wrote earlier, i almost wrote you off as someone who had no idea what was going on.
But the rest of your post proves otherwise, so I'll indulge you in the information that this piece was intended to be shown askew. It's obviously been (double) framed in photoshop, and tilted.
This first point you make actually answer's your question at the bottom :)

I really appreciated this part!, and like i said, most of what is done is drafted and drawn again and then inked after several weeks. In this case i used a glass pen. Next time i upload a work I'll include more information on the work, i just had no idea this place was this... observant :)
2. Basic drawing--You're doing some things that are just plain slipshod, no matter what style you use. (right and left refer to your person's right and left) The right arm is a mess at the shoulder junctionIt's dislocated, the weight of his right arm is so heavy in it's malformed state that it has become too heavy for his natural bone structure to support.. No matter how deformed, there are certain arrangements of muscles that are necessary for the arm to work(which is the point, it doesn't, so that darkish shadow of the armpit is just in the wrong placeI agree with this :). There should be a muscle mass there. The lower part of the arm looks bent in a curve to the right, which I can't find a legitimate design reason foranatomy perspective, the right side of the arm muscles is a bit slanted. But i can see how this is very easily seen as wrong. Also, the arm is malformed, so it doesn't have to apply to such a strict sense of design or anatomical structure., so lets call it a mistakeThis is where it gets tricky. You can if you want. I'm fine with that, but its really a subjective matter because the work is extremely expressionistic which is evident in its colour and its line-work.. I'm also thinking there's a bit too much mass where the last two fingers attach to the right hand. Take a good look there and see if you can streamline it a bit.

It's difficult to determine how the legs would work and how they're attached to the torso--like there's no hip joint I can see a hip joint? Elaborate if you want :)or solid attachment points that would make logical sense. Did you plan this (say. like a mermaid/snake kind of thing) or are we looking at another problem? That's sort of up to your imagination :P which is lazy in one sense. I'm not going to tell you what it IS, but i will say i think of his legs as goat like. Pan-like... The whole design of this work is based on the idea that he is contorting and become grotesque. But it's an interesting point to make, which is then (personally) minimalised by the fact that A. I don't draw masculine figures and B. I never exclude any part of the body in my paintings. (I'm aware that we're looking at this piece in it's own right)

The critter's left arm is whack. Continue the line from the shoulder down to the logical location for an elbow and you end up right right below where that black hairy mass is under the ribcage. That would make it kind of hard to have a big chunk of arm appearing as you have it behind his backWhich is isnt actually apart of the arm, but i get what your saying and this is something that completely slipped me by, i think i remember noticing it but not paying ANY attention to it :o This is your best point i think. I was really surprised :).

I'll buy the bastard being hairy, but --sorry--no one is that hairy....
It's a shame you had to almost ruin it by saying this though. That's just a very silly(ignorant) thing to say. I don't know if i should correct you or just pretend you're aware of what's glaringly obvious, but wanted to say it anyway.

Now we have a left hand that is or is not in the right place that appears to have a sleeve on it that's made out of hair. Is this what you wanted? if not, fix the damn thing. The fingers here are also hatched in such a way that they don't make sense directionally--and why so much hatch detail here and nowhere else?<- I assume you mean hatch work by "detail" which is an incorrect term but meh, I get what your saying so it doesnt matter right?
Anyway, Yes this was intentional. The figure is in a state of transformation, this is supported by this half-transformed hand. Also, i can't "fix" it, because it is watercolour. Or at least i don't know how i would fix it o.o
The only mistake I can see here, is the red bleeding i accidentally splodged.



Your torso needs some work. It sort of looks like you didn't know where to go after you did the pecs. The rib cage is distorted and just a mess of nebulous shapes that don't seem to make sense. Then we drop to a belly that seems twisted...it doesn't follow the perspective of the rib cage, which in turn doesn't follow the perspective of the pecs.
I don't think i need to say anything about this as I've already explained the reason for this above.

I won't touch the head, because I don't quite know what you were going for here, and i really can't(maybe its too highly contrasted for you? I'm a bit at odds about this because i'd like to say no one else thinks do, but i don't want to sound whiny. If anyone could give a second opinion that would be great!) determine what is lower face and what is hair. So you don't think it look finished? It looks like i tried for "something" (which you cant tell) and that i didn't accomplish this something(which you don;t know what is)... I'm about as confused as you are my friend @_@

3. Color--Inconsistent would be a good descriptionToo a degree. but not overly done. You jump from controlled fairly saturated color to nitty-picky daubs of muddy colorIt's called background and foreground XD. I simply wanted him to be defined against his background. Elaborate on this with example if you can please?. This indicates you don't quite know where to go next, so I'd suggest doing a little advance planning and maybe some quicky color studies first to get a better idea of what should be going whereIn this kind of framework, colours aren't that defined in placement. I've located specific colour to specific things, red and blue background, brown shaggy fur, red and brown skin tones, and the hair is murky red and blue(/green). .

The color treatment on the body completely falls apart from the waist down--that furry treatment is just not working, and with the same treatment on the hands, you have a problem here with separation where they overlap.
Okay well you may be right about this. I'm trying to look at it as objectively as i can and not from my usual form and i can see what your talking about definitely! I have given you a single piece out of context and this is what i get and it makes me very happy ^-^


Will that do for a start?Yes, is there more? =D


Really, that was amazing. That's more than... anything. All I've heard my entire life are... very well thought out compliments. My style is very influenced by Schiele and Whitley. So i can't say it sticks to any rules or guidelines which makes it hard to "grade". I don't believe in rating artwork, but there are way's you can talk about how an artwork needs development in some places.

What you've given me is an insight into a very observant audience eye. And i have to thank you deeply for that ;) I hope i haven't come off as arrogant, i just replied from the position of the designer and as objectively as i could. I hope we can talk about other works some other time!

:oneye: