Painting medium?

[Psypomp]

I've been wondering-- what are some of the more useful painting mediums out there? As someone who's been using oils for about a year, I'm still a beginner and really don't know what to look for.
Right now, I just use Liquin as a thinning agent. It really helps spread the paint around, and generally does its job, but I'm wondering if there aren't better products available. When I was just starting, I used (or rather, tried to use) turpenoid to thin the paint, but it gave me more problems than I cared for. There are also some people who employ a number of media in a single painting, but I just don't know their use. I've heard that Maroger medium is good, but haven't found much info on it.
I also understand that different products have different uses. I mostly want to hear what you guys use for everything, from thinning paint to thickening it, to making it dry faster.
Hopefully, this thread will help out some other people who are in my predicament. Any help would be great.

[JParrilla]

Right now Im using 3 main things.. Turpenoid, Liquin, and Linseed oil. Depending on what I need to do.. I use all 3. For the early stages of my painting.. the "drawing" part, I use turp.. and qite a bit of it actually. Something I picked up from watching the Shawn Barber dvd. I want my intial first drawing to dry as fast as possible so I paint with a lot of turp so the paint is thin. For a general all purpose medium I use the Liquin. I use just a bit of it when I mix my paint to help it flow better. Lastly.. when I know I want a specific layer of my painting to be very workable, or if I already know Im gonna need to move things around over a day or two.. Ill use the linseed oil.. because a couple drops of that stuff will keep the paint wet for days. By the way Im a beginning painter so this is just what I do.. and by no means correct

[Psypomp]

biggjoee5790-
So you use turpenoid to really thin it out and use liquin as a general mix-in? I've been sketching with liquin, using that to "water-down" the oils like you use the turp. It may just be preference, but do you think that the turpenoid actually dries faster than liquin?

[Noah Bradley]

As biggjoee5790 alluded to, Shawn Barber's DVD has a great section of various painting mediums, where he really explains the technical aspects behind the different types. I'd recommend picking it up.

I mainly use turps, just because I haven't experimented enough with other mediums. I've got some Damar varnish and stand oil that I'll occasionally make a mixture out of, but straight turps has something nice about it.

[JParrilla]

Noah - Yep your right the DVD explains almost every medium there is.. definetely advise picking it up.

Psypomp - Well I cant say for sure. You say you "water down" with your Liquin.. but in my opinion turp does a better job of watering down the paint. The Liquin makes it creamier at first until you add a lot.. then it begins to make it watery. It seems to me that heavy applications of turp will dry faster than Liquin.. after all turp evaporates rather quickly. I guess its preference really. Try my way.. If you like your method better.. just go back to it. No harm done. You could even test it out. make 2 piles of the same color paint. Mix one with turp, one with Liquin.. and then paint some strokes on a canvas. Then see which dries faster, how they feel when your applying the paint, which is smoother, etc

[Psypomp]

Yeah, maybe I'll try that, biggjoee. I guess I'm just attracted to liquin because of its near-lack of odor and its easiness to use. But the turpenoid idea is definitely good. You and Noah seem to know what you're talking about.

[JParrilla]

Well I understand about the odor.. but your gonna have to use turp regardless to clean your brushes and your hands. I have whats supposedly odorless turpenoid.. it still has a smell but only if you actually go up to it and sniff it :) And about me knowing what Im talking about..... pleaseee take my advice with about 8 tablespoons of salt :) because after all I have a total of 3 oil paintings under my belt :) good luck man

[dcorc]

Don't thin your oil-paint so that it's "watery". If you put too much solvent with the paint, you will strip off the adsorbed layer of oil on the pigment particles, and you might as well be doing a pastel drawing.

Use the bare minimum of painting medium needed to slacken off the paint (or otherwise change its handling). Excessive solvent will leave the paint-film underbound and structurally unsound. Excessive just-about-everything-else (oils, resins, etc) will predispose your painting to yellowing, darkening, and/or eventual embrittlement.

Dave

[JParrilla]

Psypomp, this is the man to listen to :) He knows what hes talking about for sure. Definetely dont make it watery because after all its oil paint. Juat get it to a nice consistency. The Grumbacher paints that I have are so creamy out of the tube that sometimes I dont need a medium. On the other hand I have a big tube of Winsor and Newton WINTON titanium white and its rather thick. So I always add a medium to it.

[MarkHarchar]

I use mainly liquin for making my paint buttery if it isn't already. I rarely, if ever use, mineral spirits or turp to thin my paint. I know Dan Dos Santos uses a combination of turpenoid, linseed oil and cobalt drier. Donato Giancola and Greg Manchess use Galkyd. The only time I saw Greg use turp was when he was toning his canvas. Dan said his mixure is as "child friendly" as he could make it due to his kid. Donato didn't like Liquin because of it's jelly-like consistensy and preferred the more liquidy Galkyd. I would agree though that when it comes to medium, less is better than more if you are a direct painter. If you do glazing, you will need enough to thin the paint to transparency. I have also tried M. Graham's Walnut oil alkyd. I wasn't a big fan as it seemed to dry more slowly than Liquid. I will be trying the Galkyd on my next painting and go from there.

[Blue]

refined linseed oil, turp and linseed stand oil.. in various mixtures at various stages. Mostly though, i don't use medium. I generally only use it to get more color off my palette and onto my brush if i've mixed some complex color and can't easily make it again. Although, I'm a huge huge fan of glazing with linseed oil. Takes forever to finish, but looks beautiful.

[Psypomp]

Don't thin your oil-paint so that it's "watery". If you put too much solvent with the paint, you will strip off the adsorbed layer of oil on the pigment particles, and you might as well be doing a pastel drawing.

Use the bare minimum of painting medium needed to slacken off the paint (or otherwise change its handling). Excessive solvent will leave the paint-film underbound and structurally unsound. Excessive just-about-everything-else (oils, resins, etc) will predispose your painting to yellowing, darkening, and/or eventual embrittlement.

DaveI had no idea it was that bad... I guess I try to thin it out mostly for sketching. I don't like to wait for the sketch to dry, so I use a lot (too much) of medium.
It does make sense. Like MarkHarchar said, though, I only really use the liquin to make sketches & glazes. I'm going to try to use less of it!

I've also found that using liquin tends to make the painting dry matte. When I used turpenoid, the colors actually seemed more "wet", but they also, for me, took longer to dry (I am convinced that, for the painting I'm talking about, I was using suboptimal paint in the first place). Blue, you use linseed oil? That would indeed take longer to dry, but maybe I should try it out. Kind of a 180 from liquin..

[Psypomp]

Psypomp, this is the man to listen to :) He knows what hes talking about for sure. Definetely dont make it watery because after all its oil paint. Juat get it to a nice consistency. The Grumbacher paints that I have are so creamy out of the tube that sometimes I dont need a medium. On the other hand I have a big tube of Winsor and Newton WINTON titanium white and its rather thick. So I always add a medium to it.I use WINTON oils, and they're really nice. I believe Zinc White, which is the one I use, dries faster. I usually do mix in at least a knife-tip's worth of liquin to all of the paints, and they work marvelously. I think they're just fine as-is, but I add the liquin as a habit.

[JParrilla]

Well personally I don't like the winton to much. Its too thick for me. It might be because its the lower quality winsor and newton. Im pretty sure winton is their student grade brand, they have others that are artist grade but im not sure if those are any different. Im gonna try Rembrandts next to see how they are.

[Flake]

Yup, Winton is the student grade stuff.

[Elwell]

I use WINTON oils, and they're really nice. I believe Zinc White, which is the one I use, dries faster. I usually do mix in at least a knife-tip's worth of liquin to all of the paints, and they work marvelously. I think they're just fine as-is, but I add the liquin as a habit.
It depends on what you mean by "really nice," I guess. Winton is W&N's student grade, and the pigment load is pretty low. The consistency is fairly uniform across the line, but that's because they've got a large amount of stabilizers added.
Zinc white is generally the slowest drying of the whites, but it also depends on what oil the paint is ground in, and whether any driers are added.

[MarkHarchar]

Rembrandt oils are nice. They use linseed oil as a binder and if you are using linseed oil in you medium, it does allow for a certain homogeneous quality to what you are putting down. They are much more oily than Winton, if you are used to that brand. I actually took Manchess' advice and started using W&N Alkyd White. That stuff dries in like 12 hours.

[Psypomp]

Rembrandt oils are nice. They use linseed oil as a binder and if you are using linseed oil in you medium, it does allow for a certain homogeneous quality to what you are putting down. They are much more oily than Winton, if you are used to that brand. I actually took Manchess' advice and started using W&N Alkyd White. That stuff dries in like 12 hours.Yeah, I've always been a bit unsure about paints that use a different binder.. my zinc white uses safflower oil, for example, and my other wintons use "pure linseed oil". Certainly that makes them dry differently. For this reason, I've been interested in mixing my own paints, but that seems.. ambitious.
Do you suggest I try the Rembrandts? I know that Winton is student grade, but I'd hate to just stop using them because of their lower quality. I think they're fine.

[MarkHarchar]

My best suggestion, as unscientific as it is, is to try them. I have liked them, but I also like Van Gogh (student grade) and Daler-Rowney (student grade) as well. The Rembrandt Ultramarine Blue that I have is probably the best tube of paint I have owned. The blue is just so....luminescent.

[sweetoblivion314]

Yeah, I've always been a bit unsure about paints that use a different binder.. my zinc white uses safflower oil, for example, and my other wintons use "pure linseed oil". Certainly that makes them dry differently. For this reason, I've been interested in mixing my own paints, but that seems.. ambitious.
Do you suggest I try the Rembrandts? I know that Winton is student grade, but I'd hate to just stop using them because of their lower quality. I think they're fine.

safflower is used in most brands for very light colors (whites and pale yellows for example) because it is much more clear then linseed oil. That being said it also dries much slower then linseed oil and the paint film is not quite as strong. The difference though is not really a big deal and I believe the only white using linseed oil regularly available is W&N foundation white. There is no issue with mixing linseed and safflower oils unless you want to preserve the fat over lean rule when working in layers in which case you would avoid paints with safflower oil in the initial layers (the reason why W&N actualy makes the foundation white paint is because of this).

[Cepro]

If you use a lead-pencil for your drawing, you'll havte to wash it out with turp, otherwise it might eat through your oil-colour and become visible after some time, especially if you paint very thin. Better to use coloured pencils.

Personally I use liquin and Mussini Medium 3 (fast drying medium). But I think liquin dries even faster. I tend to not use a lot, except if I want to do glazes.

I wonder if using too much medium is bad for the durability of the paint. I have heard that normal tube paint will only last about 100 years before the painting has to be restored. Wich is ok for me. But I don't want my paintings to fall appart after only 10 years.

[DSillustration]

The difference though is not really a big deal and I believe the only white using linseed oil regularly available is W&N foundation white.

Rembrandt makes 'Titanium White Linseed', an alternate pigment that uses just linseed oil.
Gamblin's 'Titanium White' is also linseed oil.

[Psypomp]

If you use a lead-pencil for your drawing, you'll havte to wash it out with turp, otherwise it might eat through your oil-colour and become visible after some time, especially if you paint very thin. Better to use coloured pencils.

Personally I use liquin and Mussini Medium 3 (fast drying medium). But I think liquin dries even faster. I tend to not use a lot, except if I want to do glazes.

I wonder if using too much medium is bad for the durability of the paint. I have heard that normal tube paint will only last about 100 years before the painting has to be restored. Wich is ok for me. But I don't want my paintings to fall appart after only 10 years.It does sound like adding too much medium can "break apart" the paint's binders and cause them to be more delicate, almost like they're stretched too thinly. That's what I've gathered, anyway.
By lead pencil, you mean graphite, right? Didn't know that, but I usually sketch things in with paint.

[laurenmoyer]

biggjoee5790-
So you use turpenoid to really thin it out and use liquin as a general mix-in? I've been sketching with liquin, using that to "water-down" the oils like you use the turp. It may just be preference, but do you think that the turpenoid actually dries faster than liquin?

Don't use Turpenoid, it causes your paintings to tack and have troubles drying. Will take days longer to dry thin layers than regular turpentine. It's so frustrating, thought I was doing something wrong, but did more research and found that slower drying is very common with turpenoid. Also if you use wipe out for under paintings it streaks. Now I just use it as brush cleaner.

I paint very thinly, most of the times I use a good turp (venetian turp) mixed with linseed oil. I think it's 5/1 part mixture. Then you can also use a little turp with liquin or galkyd to kinda get rid of the shine, and make it last longer. Just using turp to thin is a bad idea, the paint needs something to help bind it to the canvas.

[Elwell]

Don't use Turpenoid, it causes your paintings to tack and have troubles drying. Will take days longer to dry thin layers than regular turpentine. It's so frustrating, thought I was doing something wrong, but did more research and found that slower drying is very common with turpenoid. Also if you use wipe out for under paintings it streaks. Now I just use it as brush cleaner.
Don't confuse Turpenoid (Highly refined orderless mineral spirits) with Turpenoid Natural (citrus solvents, oils, and surfactants). You're using the latter.
I paint very thinly, most of the times I use a good turp (venetian turp) mixed with linseed oil. I think it's 5/1 part mixture. Then you can also use a little turp with liquin or galkyd to kinda get rid of the shine, and make it last longer. Just using turp to thin is a bad idea, the paint needs something to help bind it to the canvas.
Venitian turpentine (properly Venice turpentine) is a balsam, a thick resinous liquid used to impart gloss, transparency, and leveling qualities to mediums. It shouldn't be confused with the turpentine used as a solvent, which is properly spirits of turpentine.

[dirtydiesel]

turpenoid natural makes me want to kill myself. everything i ever tried to do with that damn medium turned out sticky, tacky, smelly and just plain refused to dry.

the only medium i really use is turpentine, just enough to make the paint flow ever so slightly. linseed oil seems to give oil paint a gloss effect that i can't stand, and i hate the jelly-like consistency of liquin. just a personal thing!