Dude looks like a lady?

[PencilPunx]

A couple of months ago I posted a picture of a female head I had doodled and asked for help as a few people told me it looked masculine and I couldn't figure out why. I got a lot of excellent replies and tried to take the advice people gave me. So this is another attempt at working on my female heads/faces. Am I headed in the right direction? Am I still doing something wrong? I'm pretty sure the lips are wonky but anything else?

First, here's the one I posted previously that I was told looked like a dude:
http://mason.gmu.edu/~tdiamond/blonde.jpg

Now here's the newer one: (I apologize for the stars, I tend to add decorative crap like that in my sketchbook to keep it from being so boring. I tried to color it to help the head stand out from the stars)
http://mason.gmu.edu/~tdiamond/tigerlilly.jpg

Thanks!

[Christopher]

to fix the first image so it doesn't look masculine:

1. take out the ridge where the eyebrows are. it's only pronounced on the guys.

2. round and shave the chin

3. smooth the jawline, esp. when it goes up to meet the ear. it's too sharp right now, again it's a guy thing

[Gouda boy]

I don't know what advice was given in the other thread, but this is what I know about the face of man/woman;

In history the man was a hunter/fighter so the face of a man had to be protected. That's why the eyes of men lay deeper and the forhead is slightly more forward for protection of the eyes. Overall the noses of men are bigger and they have a bigger, more forward sharper chin and a stronger/more on surface jar to protect.

So if do opposite you probably get a woman, she didn't need the protection... That's maybe what happend with the above. The first picture; eyes lay deep / forhead a little to the front / sharp - on the surface jar / forward big chin / a slightly bigger nose

Sorry Christopher if I said things twice...

[adien]

i think one of the main reasons these look masculine (yep, the second still looks a little masculine) is the visible adams apple. It's very rare for a woman to have an adams apple.

I think the only other thing that makes the second one little a little masculine might be the size of the nose. I think a woman's nose isn't usually quite so pronounced.

hope this helps.

[Chicka]

funnie transexuals... it's just the chin.. otherwise.. I think they're good¨:)

[PencilPunx]

Apparently I still have a lot of work to do as I'm still getting the "That's a dude!" responses. I am happy to know that people don't seem to think the second image is as glaringly masculine as the first, as that's my most recent attempt. Back to the drawing board. Thanks so much to everyone who offered their help!

[Landmate]

when drawing female, less is more, dont over describe the features.

girls dont have adams apples, square jaws, or pronounced cheek bones. use curves instead of angles. large noses are hard to pull off also.

here is a wuick paint over to illustrate those points.


http://www.doublemoonproductions.com/blonde_po.jpg

sorry if i butchered it

-B

[Lukias]

Hey I remember giving you a lengthy crit last time!
Great to see your pushing for improvement.. though I can see your still struggling to shrug off the old ways.

All advice is great, Landmates painter over should help alot, so I'll just add a wee bit.
With the chin its obvious your mind is finding it hard to let go of the protruding jaw. You've rounded it like you'd been advised but theres an urge to jut it out. Just cut it off.. see the angle of the line on the outer side of the face before the bubbly chin?. Just follow that line.. tighten it further even.
The nose is massive and the ear.. the ear lobe especially belongs on an old man. Ears keep growing which is why old men have huge ears!(So do humans noses)
Completley forget about ever rendering a women with an Adams apple.
Hey just use a few ref pics.. hunt down angles you want to suss out and them draw them, simplify them so they suit this style of drawing. Maybe even easier.. go copy some other artists work, they've done the hard yards and simplified things for you.. use it, remember it and expand on it.
If in doubt simply look at the real thing.
:chug:

[PencilPunx]

Thanks guys! I was hoping I'd made some improvement between my older attempt and my more recent one, but I see now I'm still struggling. A lot of great advice was given and hopefully I can get a grasp on this soon.

Landmate-You are the MAN for doing that paint over for me! Visual aids are my preferred method of learning and your fix up job of the blonde girl(guy?) really showed me a lot about the right way to do this. I owe you for that!

Lukias-You definitely gave me some great feedback last time. It was because you gave me such excellent advice that I wanted to post my second attempt, so I'm glad you saw this one as well. I'm disappointed I couldn't show you a more marked improvement, but I'm grateful you gave me even more tips in your follow up. I'll keep trying, but thank you for your continued support.
:D

[pvrhye]

The number one thing you did to improve it was get rid of that adam's apple. Always remember that when you are abstracting a form, the lines you decide to leave pick up a greater importance.

[jca]

lol... keep at it man.. sorry but it cracked me up seeing a guy with pink lipstick and eye shadow on.. lolol

[Gunbu]

I definitely think Landmates interpretation is going in the right direction. But, if you still wanted the character to be more "chissled", I would suggest looking at Aeon Flux. That character has very boney facial features and still looks very femanine. Still though, the best thing you could do other than drawing real life girls would be to get a fashion magazine. Very good reference for skinny tall angular women.

[PencilPunx]

Thanks Gunbu. I'm actually not going for a boney or chisled look at all. I'm thinking the reason these are coming out that way is because I draw very angular forms before adding in any detail. I don't know if it will make sense without a visual aid, but I recently switched from the "egg shape with crosshairs" method of drawing faces to actually roughing in the planes of the head/face. It was supposed to be an attempt at making my stuff look more 3 dimensional, but instead I'm now drawing drag queens. I draw from reference pretty often, almost every night for practice. I've been doing these to see if I'm getting the hang of doing it on my own. I guess it's not working.

jca-"A guy with pink lipstick and eyeshadow?!" You will rue the day you said such words! No seriously though, you're now a part of the legion who feels I draw transexuals. Thanks for responding though.
:p

[JUDGEmental]

it's the chin dude, cmon... think "dainty"...