How do you know if you can be a professional?

[t0po.inc]

So, maybe something like this has already been asked,
and I've been doing some Google-ing to try and find information.
But everyone on this site is so interestingly wise and diverse, I figured this was a good place to ask.

Anyway, my question is typically what the title says: How do you know if you can be a professional?
And to put more detail into it: where is the line, if any, between having art as a hobby or as a career? What kind of mindset and habits are necessary to be able to make it as a good, successful, professional? For those of you out there who are professionals, when did you discover, "Hey, I really can do this"?

I've been thinking about that lately since my mom basically asked me "Why are you even trying to become an artist?" after remarking about how I don't seem dedicated enough and spend more time online than buried in my sketchbook [hey, it's summer].
And after thinking for a while, trying to find a detailed and persuading answer, all I came up with is, "Because I really don't see myself doing anything else." After I thought about it further, I came up with more answers, but I digress.
Nonetheless. It's been making me create scenarios about what I would do if I wasn't training to be an artists. I could continue trying to be a veterinarian, a marine biologist, a chef, an environmentalist, a professional trumpet or bass player, an astronaut, a teacher, an arithmetician, a historian, a web designer, a foreign language translator, an entrepreneur, etc. but art is what I have the most confidence in and even though I didn't decide to major in art until my Junior year of high school, I've always wanted it to be some part of my life.

I'm sure this kind of question is more of a "personal journey into the inner depths of the mind", but there must be some sort of basic guideline.

Sorry for making this so long and hopefully I'm making sense. D:

[Blue]

You can be a professional if you're stubborn enough to want it.

"Determination is more important than skill" - Boris Valejo

And that holds true. If you market yourself, push your name and network network network.. you'll be a pro. Regardless of your talent, you will be making a living.

For me, it is be a professional artist, or a hobo. There is no in between.

[Ilaekae]

I've been dead for 16 years, in my third career change, and I'm still pushing myself to professional level as an exhibiting artist. I hope to be there...maybe by tomorrow afternoon...or maybe it'll take a little longer.

If that doesn't work, I might do something different...


Like be an artist...and probably exhibit...






:P

[Musselfarmstudios]

My new favorite movie quote kind of partains to this very subject. I'm paraphrasing but it pretty much goes:

" . . . because you don't do for free what you're good enough to get paid for . . . ." the Joker said something to this effect in The Dark Knight

(I would have written it down if I had a sketchbook or something . . . anyway) just sit back and think about that a bit.

You could ask others to judge your ability to go professional but in the end you have to ask yourself if you are willing to take that leap to put yourself out there and decide whether or not your good enough to start getting paid for your art.

Quite possibly, you may want to start thinking of being a professional as more of an evolution of sorts rather than something that "just happens" because if your art is "evolving properly" then you are meeting the right people and things are falling into place but that's a really ideal situation.

Another thing that I've found out is that having the skills is important but more important are your abilities to network and follow through with completing a project. I've seen so many artists and writers with great ideas and no follow through . . . don't be one of 'em!

Hope this makes sense . . . good luck!

[algenpfleger]

And like Bobby Chiu said, "If you believe that it will happen, then it will, if you don't - well, then it won't!" :)

[Farvus]

Her pics might be a bit too artsy for some people here but she always says some interesting things. :P

RfXCkdyQoKw

[Stoat]

"Professional" covers a LOT of ground. If you're asking, "how do I know I can become a top Hollywood costume designer?" or "how do I know I can make a living doing character design for games?" those are difficult and specific questions...and we'd have to look at your portfolio and ask where you could afford to go to school and...blah blah blah.

But if you want to know "can I make a living at some sort of art?" I don't have to look at your sketchbook to tell you yes. You can do it because thousands do, and many of them suck. There are all kinds of jobs that require an art(y) background. They vary widely in enjoyableness, availability, fame and fortune, of course.

There are days I wish I'd gone to pharmacy school, so I could make a living doing one thing and come home at night to paint.

[t0po.inc]

Well golly, thanks everyone! :o

I really do want to be a great pro, but sometimes I do feel like I should be doing more. I need to stop being so lazy. u 3u

That's a really cool video btw, Farvus, thanks!

And as far as my artwork goes though Stoat, I've gotten some pretty positive feedback from folks. I've gotten paid commissions, won some awards [biggest accomplishment is the 'best of show' in scholastics], got a $10k scholarship for my first year of college, but even still, I don't have much confidence in my stuff because I know I can do better. I guess the next step to take would get a sketchbook thread over here for some real critique. Everyone from HS was pretty much biased and not very helpful. D:

[Christian223]

For those of you out there who are professionals, when did you discover, "Hey, I really can do this"?

I've been thinking about that lately since my mom basically asked me "Why are you even trying to become an artist?" after remarking about how I don't seem dedicated enough and spend more time online than buried in my sketchbook [hey, it's summer].
And after thinking for a while, trying to find a detailed and persuading answer, all I came up with is, "Because I really don't see myself doing anything else." After I thought about it further, I came up with more answers, but I digress.

For the first question: im not a pro-artist, but im a profesional graphic designer. I said to myself "Hey!, i have no idea how to do this!, im going to learn because i want to do it". The important thing is your desire!. Desire is what drives you so you must ask yourself really really hard about what you desire, if possible, writte down what things you want in life, in detail, this will help you reach to the depths of your mind to find the true answer. How do you know if you desire something?, if it gets you all exited and if you feel lots of motivation to do it, if your heart beats faster, then you desire it.

For me, graphic design is really nice, but its not nice anymore when you work for someone else, so im trying to be a profesional artist right now.
Also, im a programmer, programming is lots of fun if you do things that interest you, like video-games, but its so boring and tedious when you do boring programs, so, i decided to make indie games for a living, for this thing im very passionate, but its also really hard, you have to dedicate lots of effort and time like no more TV, no more playing games as i used to, no more of lots of things, take care of my diet, do more excersize to take care of my vitality, and so on, but i still love it, and im about to finish my first game in a few months, i have been developing this game for a little more than 7 months now.

So, the important thing is your motivation, your desire, find what you are passionate about, it doesnt matter if you can do it or not, doesnt matter if you are good at it or not, if you are passionate about it youll put lots of effort to learn, and in time, depending on how much effort you put at it, youll reach your objectice.

There are obstacles though, there are distractions that prevent you to reach your objectice, GET RID OF THOSE, throw away all doubts, just do it, do it for fun, do it with passion, apply effort, apply the necesary time, concentrate on your objective, and youll reach it.

I recommend you to check out career and objective advices given in this site: www.stevepavlina.com he gives some good advice, it helped me.

By the way, i still got work as an illustrator even though i was really bad at drawing and painting, but i got the job because i really made an effort to do a good work and i also made efforts to make my customer happy, did things allways very fast and gave my clients security.

Good luck, Jesus bless you.

[rapxic]

thanks alot christian 223 , i've been longing to get an answer aboot how i should live and that courage stuff , that website link is so true

[Ilaekae]

A pro is somebody who...

--can meet deadlines.
--take direction and suggestions.
--does a bit better at least than what is needed for each assignment.
--knows what questions to ask to get the information he/she needs to complete the project.
--can work on projects they may not be enthused about as hard as they do on the "nice" ones.
--understands why the work is being done and how it will be used.
--gets paid.
--does this over and over probably every day of their working lives.


If you can't do the above, often on more than one project at a time, no amount of networking, asskissing, "knowing somebody," or cheating is going to make you a pro.

[Duq]

Being a pro is not a skill level, its an attitude.

[t0po.inc]

I recommend you to check out career and objective advices given in this site: www.stevepavlina.com he gives some good advice, it helped me.


Heheh, browsed the site a bit and it looks pretty awesome. I think I'll start with the article "Overcoming Procrastination". :))

Thanks for the link and the advice!!! :D

[Blue]

Her pics might be a bit too artsy for some people here but she always says some interesting things. :P

I rarely say this... but i can't stand that woman. I watched the whole video.. some good lines in there yea but.. oh my god, she just irks me. :ilaekae:

[Nadesican]

Ill start this by saying I'm not a pro, and am no where near that level..yet. The truth of the matter is I'm asking myself the same question, because I'm currently only minoring in art.

I have to agree with stoat in his opinion on making a living of some sort on art. But I think in the end it comes down to one thing: When you have a headache, when your day is going crappy, when nothing goes right...can you still bring yourself to draw?

In other words: Can you stand making Art 'Work'? The jury is still out for me.

[VulgarDragon]

If you have people wanting to buy your artwork, I guess you are ready to be a professional.

[J Wilson]

"Because I really don't see myself doing anything else."

In a way, that's the only answer you need. If you can see yourself doing anything else, you probably should, but if not, and you really love art, then there's a good chance you can make it work. It's takes a lot of effort, but for some of us nothing else will do. As others have said, it's drive and desire more than other things. I've seen people with amazing skills that never stuck with art, and others who had "only" very good skills who are doing amazingly well now.

[arttorney]

"I don't have much confidence in my stuff because I know I can do better." Pretty much everybody on here knows they can do better. That is a reason to make a lot of artworks rather than a reason not to make artworks.

Nadesican: Stoat is a female, fyi

[Ilaekae]

"Nadesican: Stoat is a female, fyi"

It's an understandable mistake. We DO have footage of her bringing down a 7-foot-tall Kodiak bear for breakfast with a cast iron skillet... :P

[cmalidore]

Lets face it, I've met some skillfully lacking professionals that were high in demand just because they knew how to meet deadlines and talk to potential employers.

I feel that I became a professional the day I was unable to secure any other kind of work - and proceeded to do everything I could to draw every day for whoever was hiring. For me it was a decision of necessity more than desire at the time - nobody was hiring, and I could draw.... why not see if I can draw for money? So I did. But I wasn't ready for it because my thought process was lacking. That developed over time and now I'm very very passionate about what I do and look forward to seeing what forms on the canvas next each and every day.

I've learned over the years that it's an ongoing process - even when a professional. There's this misconception that you've gotta be slick with a pencil or brush right away in the field and that you better know all your stuff before getting into it. Ultimately you'll find that being darn good at what you do helps secure gigs, but you don't know anything when you actually get into it..... because each experience will be different and hopefully change you for the better whether it was a negative or positive project.

My father once told me that the value of something is what somebody will pay for it. I'm sure he was quoting somebody else but the point is the same - we may not value our work high for seeing faults everywhere, but the real value of what we create is set by potential employers. And you don't know what that is until you go out there and try. We have a habit of looking at it as a black and white form with a checkbox that says "good enough to be a professional" or "bad enough to not be a professional" But really the line to look for is "will anybody pay you for this?"

I guess the easiest way to say it is to go dive into it. Draw every day whether you're paid for it or not. Remember that you will have to draw a lot of things you don't want to. You will have days where the last thing you wanna do is draw or paint.... you will at times wish you followed the footsteps of the safe path and gone into something like accounting. But ultimately if you come back to the paper and canvas - then I guess that says it all.

[Stoat]

Sequence of events wrong: I brought it down using withering sarcasm. I cooked it in an iron skillet. (Didn't even notice I'd been morfed).

I do think you have to be honest with yourself about your strengths and weaknesses. I spent a few years as a freelance illustrator and hated it. I'm no good at selling things (like myself), I hate uncertainty and I'm an inconsistent performer (my best is pretty good, but I don't do my best all the time). I ended up taking salaried work.

Fine arts would have been another path. But the only people I know who made a go at that were either willing to live in appalling conditions for a while, or had somebody else bankrolling them. Rule of thumb: about ten years.

[t0po.inc]

! All this wonderful advice!! Thanks everyone, again. It's really insightful~

[otis]

Farvus, That lady is the stereotypical, lost, crazy, self-obsessive, granola-nut, mud chomping "artist".
For the love of god how can anybody listen to a hair-brained, hyper-talking chick like that?? She gives artists a bad rep.

Bottom line: If you sell or get paid for ANYTHING you do, you are a professional.

Sorry, just thinking you are something does not make it so.

[S.C. Watson]

Sorry, just thinking you are something does not make it so.
I think I'm RICH!!

*goes and checks*

aw, fuck. :sadcheerleader:

[Ilaekae]

Maybe you're not doing it right. I wished I was old, beat-up, losing my hair and fat and BINGO!...here I iz... :P

[t0po.inc]

Suddenly, I'm reminded of a joke a teacher once told me:

Socrates walks into a bar and sits down. The bar tender asks "Would you like a drink?" and Socrates says, "I think not!" and POOF, he was gone.

Loooooooolz. D:

[Elwell]

Would work better with Descartes.

[a la bapsi]

yay yyyyy

[Black Spot]

Bottom line: If you sell or get paid for ANYTHING you do, you are a professional.

Whoopee! I sold some art in ’80. I’m a pro - sort of.:lifedrawing:

[t0po.inc]

Would work better with Descartes.

That's probably what he meant. D>
Who knows. He was rather senile.

[Ilaekae]

We old guys get like that... :P

[me_art_and_animation]

i gave up my 3d animation career to become an artist. without any art background i took this risk. i am still studying art and have not proved myself yet. every one says i have taken a wrong decision but i am not concerned as i believe in myself. i think dedication skill practice all are fine but most important in believe.

[tomwaits4noman]

short answer.... people are willing to pay you to do a job.

[t0po.inc]

We old guys get like that... :P

I think it's cool though.
I can't wait till I get old because I could say what I want and get away with it, have people take care of me, and eat cookies all day. Sounds pretty good to me. D:

i gave up my 3d animation career to become an artist. without any art background i took this risk. i am still studying art and have not proved myself yet. every one says i have taken a wrong decision but i am not concerned as i believe in myself. i think dedication skill practice all are fine but most important in believe.

I always admire people who take risks like that, so you struck a cord man, a cord. Thanks for your inspiring words and good luck for your future. :99

short answer.... people are willing to pay you to do a job.
Yeah, that makes sense. D:

[VulgarDragon]

i gave up my 3d animation career to become an artist. without any art background i took this risk. i am still studying art and have not proved myself yet. every one says i have taken a wrong decision but i am not concerned as i believe in myself. i think dedication skill practice all are fine but most important in believe.

I thought about quitting my science job (which pays good and is stable by the way) to concentrate on my art...but then me and my family would starve. Nobody wants to buy my art at all :nohope: Either that I suck at art or I suck at marketing.

I admire your dedication... it takes a lot of guts to do that. Good luck.

[ALH]

A pro is somebody who...

--can meet deadlines.
--take direction and suggestions.
--does a bit better at least than what is needed for each assignment.
--knows what questions to ask to get the information he/she needs to complete the project.
--can work on projects they may not be enthused about as hard as they do on the "nice" ones.
--understands why the work is being done and how it will be used.
--gets paid.
--does this over and over probably every day of their working lives.


If you can't do the above, often on more than one project at a time, no amount of networking, asskissing, "knowing somebody," or cheating is going to make you a pro.

Damn, i've never seen it put this way before. Its certainly enlightening, if not a little relieving. My confidence in my skills is really rocky at the moment, and i dont really consider myself hireable yet in terms of my portfolio- but i know in approaching true projects ( and not floundering around like i am at the moment for various frustrating reasons) i give my all.

[gardenrusalka]

and we'd have to look at your portfolio and ask where you could afford to go to school and...blah blah blah.

Does this really play into it? Say you went to the Harvard of art school, you'd be expected to "know more" than someone who only went to community college art school?