Perhaps a desk job...

[PiousProdigy]

Ironically, a career in art would probably take place at a desk.

You've heared it before-
I'm 16, I've always loved art, I'm getting serious about art now, so that I may set in motion my dream of the eventual career in an artistic field.

That being said, my progress has apparently plateaued, if not if not began to reverse. I draw a couple of hours every day, but I don't really know what I'm trying to practice. I would love to be able to correctly create the human form on paper, I've been trying that recently. I bought Bridgman's "The Human Machine" and "Constructive Anatomy", but I don't know how to draw what I see when I'm already using second hand knowledge. Like I said I draw every day, but I really don't feel that I'm improving. Looking back on old sketchbooks, I can see that my drawings (though not as accurate) were much less forced. I'm getting pretty discouraged, and I really don't know if I can stay motivated if my rate of progression doesn't perk up. If my whines haven't put you off to much to give some advice, please make youself heared. I know I can't pay my way out of lacking knowledge or skill, however I would be glad to spend money on books or videos that you think could help (I know, check the stickies).

Thank you, feedback greatly apreciated grovelgrovelgrovel....

[Anid Maro]

Edit: A'ight, editing this post. Originally I was a little more rude, but I try to not be an asshole outside of the Lounge. So with that said... you may want to consider changing your avatar. And to your question, you're 16 and have plenty of time to improve. Don't be impatient, aside from reading everything you can (e.g. any books you find, this website, et cetera) you should practice practice practice.

[worxe]

I thought the avatar was hilarious, but besides the point;

Have you tried going into a different medium? if you're confident with traditional drawing, try bringing works into photoshop, or matte painting, or rather stick with traditional, watercolor, inking, sculpture with clays/ceramics is a particularly fun one but can get a bit expensive depending on what you use.

Having said that if you're into reading, Drawing from the Right Side of the Brain (http://www.amazon.com/New-Drawing-Right-Side-Brain/dp/0874774195) is apparently good, a friend owns a copy and says he wouldn't go without it, although I haven't read it myself, just a suggestion. Besides that you should really have a look throughout the forums, there are numerous similar problems artists have all the time and they occasionally post their troubles for feedback.

P.S - A career in art is a desk job only if you want it to be. It never has to be that way.


..Unless you're into rotoscoping.

[PiousProdigy]

Anid Maro- My avatar is cloggged with sarcasm, I live in a wealthy southern town in the US, gay slurs and illiteracy are promoted like new variations of soda pop among the ground people. I can take atvantage of using that type of humor with my friends, but apparently not in public. Wasn't trying to offend you, I guess that is what makes satire satirical. Thanks for the advice.

Luftwaffles- The book looks great. I have an oil set in my closet, I suppose there is no sense in leaving them there when I'm bored of whatever I'm working on now. Thanks to the both of you.

[Elwell]

Besides that you should really have a look throughout the forums, there are numerous similar problems artists have all the time and they occasionally post their troubles for feedback.

^This.

[worxe]

The avatar reminded me of Team America, that movie had me in stitches :).

Just to add onto that sculpture, a poor mans option that I really like to use is if you have any clumps of blu-tac or kneaded erasers, they'll do fine, after you've made something you can try drawing/painting (with the oils) it into your sketchbook, be it a vehicle, building, creature or character. Speaking of sketchbooks, you should make one (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41) ;).

[Anid Maro]

Piousprodigy: All's well, put into context it's not offensive. Maybe I'm just an oversensitive wuss? :)

For more specific advice, you can check out the "Exclusive Content" and "Tips & Tutorials" as well as doing searches in "Art Discussion" or "Fine Arts & Discovery" for specific questions. If you can study from life, do so... otherwise photographs are good.

As far as books are concerned the one Luftwaffles mentioned is good. For anatomy if you want an alternative from Bridgman then two other oft referenced authors are Loomis and Hogarth. Also one artist who's books I've gotten into lately is Arthur L. Guptill, the two books I read so far are about ink and watercolors but a Google search indicates he was a pretty prolific writer so keep an eye out for any of his stuff.

Oh, and welcome to CA.org. :)

[jhgoforth]

Well to be quite honest, I'm glad i never listened to myself at 16. You are never your own best critic. True in all things in life, but especially true in the art world. Try to take any summer drawing courses you can find (many 'art centers' will do short ones and many times for free minus the cost of your own materials). Find other artists near your own age to 'talk shop' with and compare works. Most of the biggest names in art history did not work in a vacuum and more often than not had a small 'clique' of friends that were artists and poets, musicians, etc. They all fed off of each other by inspiring either through friendly competition and cooperative works. Even the somewhat schizo Van Gogh was influenced by his friends and family that were involved as artists and art dealers. There are always times when you start to come down on yourself and wonder if you even have what it takes to improve. But once those thoughts enter your brain it's time to take a step back and see the bigger picture. Look at other works, find what you like and don't like in them and figure out what exactly they did to achieve those results. Studying other art is just as important as 'creating' your own and can give a needed break to the drawing aspect of the old noggin. Don't expect to achieve perfection but don't strive for anything less. Yes that sounds cheesy and like a fortune cookie mistranslation. But it's true. Not all books suggested will fit you. Personally I despise "Drawing on the right side of the Brain". The exercises are sound in it irregardless. Myself, I do better in a group drawing situation like a traditional class set up. (went to an art school, gotta love sitting in a studio doing Figure drawing studies in charcoal for 6 hours consecutive with a 1hr break for lunch) and my final rule: Never, ever say your work sucks. There is always something to learn from anything you draw/paint/sculpt. There is always some improvement here or there or some area of anatomy/perspective/lighting etc to research and truly understand.

for a poor man's sculpting (for practice not finished pieces per se) I'd recommend Plastilina oil based modeling clay as it's easy to maintain (very hard to dry it out due to oily nature) and good for studying forms. http://www.dickblick.com/zz332/21/ , seriosly $7 for 2 pounds? can't buy some meat for cheaper ;P I do recommend trying some water based clay sculpting at some point...that muddy feeling is unique.

[J Wilson]

Can you describe what you are doing when you practice? If it's sitting there drawing from your imagination, you are right, you probably aren't progressing much. If you are drawing from Bridgman's book, you may be making progress and not realize it, but you need to add another element. You need to add in reference to draw from. Either good photos or a model would make a big difference in how much you are able to learn from Bridgman's books. More than anything Bridgman's books are a way to SEE rather than to draw. Drawing like he does in the books, copy from them, is only a small part of the lesson, the bigger part is apply the information and being able to recognize it when you see it on the model or in the photos. When you get that, when you have that aha moment of "Wow, ok. THAT'S what all of this means." then your practice will be making progress.

If you are already using reference in your practice then I say you just need more practice. There might be a stage where your art seems to get worse. You are considering lots of new concepts and "rules" so of course they will seem stiff for a while. Keep at it, and as you get more comfortable with everything the looseness will return. It's all in the practice, but most of the time it's not fast or easy, so don't get discouraged.

[Saturns Gate]

J Wilson got it.

Its quite funny how when your young and begin something new like art your mind is racing away with you, imagining that you will make amazing progress without working at it all day and even then its like Wilson said, you probably wont realize the progress made until you look back on your work from a year ago or so. Keep Copying Bridgeman, You probably wont think your learning much by just copying him, but your brain is.

[Seedling]

About the avatar: it would be wise to get rid of it, because it will cause some people who would otherwise offer you good advice to reconsider.

Make sure you aren't turning your art-time into drudgery. Add "fun" into your art schedule so that you don't burn out.

[CCThrom]

Keep at it, and as you get more comfortable with everything the looseness will return.

Worth repeating...

Make sure you aren't turning your art-time into drudgery.

^again!

[PiousProdigy]

Thank you all very much.

jhgoforth- Extremely helpful, I will definately try drawing from other refrences using what I subconciously understand.

J wilson- I sit at my desk or computer and try to copy directly from brigdman, loomis, or sometimes Mentler's anatomy thread, and later, I just sit on my couch or something and try to draw what I remember. I guess that is still just drawing what bridgman sees. I'll use a different reference. Thank you.

Thanks others not mentioned!

Yeah, I'll change my avatar.

[jhgoforth]

Anatomy for artists references are good, but only as supplement in my honest opinion. gestural and figuring drawing class-studio settings gave me by far more than staring at a book to learn. Not only because it was directly from life but also to compare my work to others in the class and see how different people approached the same problems and resolutions of those problems. Plus having someone there to direct you (if they are good and know the proper way to push a student) is irreplaceable in my opinion. I've been through both a university and art school setting. No atelier experience (yet). I gained more from those 2 programs than I ever could alone from references and 'tutorials'. Those references are helpful when stuck on something or in a 'rut' so don't discount them entirely. The one book I would recommend, even if you are not interested in being an animator is Richard William's The Animator's Survival Kit (http://www.amazon.com/Animators-Survival-Kit-Richard-Williams/dp/0571202284). I learned a lot about motion and creating character to drawings ( as well as consistency among many other things). Stuff like that can help you see how different artists handle different projects with essentially the same basic tool set of skills.

Keep in mind, some references may be a bit ahead of where you are at artistically. Getting the basics down early is very important and not just anatomy. Perspective, contrast, composition and even color theory to a lesser extent, are all very important tools to have down pat. I probably spent most of high school merely learning how to render simple shapes properly with shading and drawing from photos using a grid system, and so much perspective studies that i wanted to puke, before I ever really got into learning anatomy. Even before I had an art class in college for anatomy and figure drawing, i took science course my senior year in high school (gah over 10yrs ago now ; ; ) for Anatomy and Physiology and probably got a really good grounding in the knowledge there. Nothing beats being forced to memorize the bones and muscle groups. ;P So don't be afraid to broaden out from just purely artist areas of knowledge.

[Naomi Ningishzidda]

When I was sixteen I was working as a receptionist or something and drawing on the side, I never thought about my career actually, I just naturally went with what spoke to me and then when I went to the atelier I learned alot. I would buy some conceptart.org videos, books of great artists with GOOD art and not necessarily instructions - I wasted a ton of money on those when I was a teenager and got more learning out of my Spawn comics.. I did hear drawing from the right side of the brain was total crap from other atelier students, and also pick up some classes at a good atelier as well as some college coursework...

Find a mundane job you don't mind doing either, to pick up the slack when you need it. If you're meant to be an artist it shouldn't last too long but artists do have a doctor length learning curve to tackle - without the salary and college tab...

[PiousProdigy]

jhgoforth and Naomi Ningishzidda, thank you both, very helpful.