Question about Inks with Prismacolor/Copic Markers

[Ahkahna]

Hey guys, I'm wondering if any of you here in CA-land have found any types of ink meant for nib or brush work that can tolerate the use of prismacolor and or copics without smearing into a terrible mess?

I love using my nib and brush for variation in line weights as much as I adore microns and their ability to withstand the markers, but microns, they just don't give me the Umph I need/want/desire out of my illustrations like nibs and brushes do.

[tn100]

I have the same problem. I haven't figured it out though.
What about a brush pen? I think that might work but I don't know if you would enjoy it as much as a real brush or the nib.

How are microns by the way? I have never had the chance to use them but I want to try. Do the line widths just not vary enough?

[Zirngibism]

I believe the Sakura company also has brush-tip pens with the same "Micron ink".

What I do when I use markers is lay down the marker first and then ink over it.
Might not be your workflow but it's a good way to avoid smearing.

[AdamGillespie]

I did these two with india ink & prisma color and I have never had a problem with smearing of any sort.

[Ahkahna]

Thanks guys!

tn100: Microns are nice but lose their rich black when they've been erased over (not something I like) and they take really well to markers. As far as line weight variation goes they are deadlined unless you use the brushpen. Unfortunately microns brushpens will begin to fray very quickly after several uses :(

Zirngibism: Brush pens in general I've never really felt comfortable using- the feeling is a lot different than an actual brush. Does sakura sell ink bottles by chance?

AdamGillespie: What brand of india ink are you using? How long did you let it set before using marker over it? Also, I do a LOT of layering with a lot of colors in short spans of time which wets the paper more and has always seemed to smear the ink. :(

[J Wilson]

I find Pigma Microns work fine for me with very little smearing as long as I let them dry some. Part of it could be your paper, so try a couple different kinds. I dislike paper made for markers, and it's designed to let the ink move around some for ease of blends.

Also, I do a LOT of layering with a lot of colors in short spans of time which wets the paper more and has always seemed to smear the ink
It's possible you are over working your image. No matter your medium, paper can only take so much working before it's working properties change. If you are inking and markering over the same area a lot you are going to degrade the surface some, and that will affect everything.

[wheezy]

Amy Reeder Hadley talks about paper and when coloring with Copics etc. to use a paper that will allow the ink to go ahead and bleed all the way through to avoid smearing. She has some demos etc you should check out.

http://www.tentopet.com/resources.html
http://www.youtube.com/user/amyreederhadley

As far as my experience I do not have issues with smearing on Vellum, which I switched to when I began having smear issues on smooth plate Bristol.

[wheezy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjoFC01_s2M is the specific demo I am talking about.

[CCThrom]

Have you tried plain old India ink yet? Pitt pens and I think Micron as well use a dilute india ink solution. But once it dries, pure india should be pretty impervious to smudging and smearing... and a good india is as solid black as you can get.

[Ahkahna]

I use cardstock and only cardstock. I never liked the outcome of any other paper because of the fact that it either soaked up too much marker ink and went everywhere (computer paper), or just destroyed the marker tips (bristol). I very rarely "overwork" my markers while I color, in fact I feel I underwork them. I never wet the paper to the point of it beginning to fray or anything, I just meant that when blending colors I need to be quick about it.

I haven't attempted velum yet, so I may see about that.

I've tried all sorts of inks, Bombay, Windsor and Newton, speedball, etc etc.
Maybe I'm just not letting my india ink set up long enough before I color? o.o

[Eric Young]

I use waterproof india ink and I have never had a problem going over it with prismacolor markers. I did have a problem with micron pens though, it seems when I go over the micron with prismacolor, the ink loses it's rich black color.

[dark eagle]

I know that DR pens dont smear without a LOT of water and smudging with your finger so you just need to check there website to see if they have the same type of ink for the fine points in the ones your looking for.

[AdamGillespie]

Thanks guys!

tn100: Microns are nice but lose their rich black when they've been erased over (not something I like) and they take really well to markers. As far as line weight variation goes they are deadlined unless you use the brushpen. Unfortunately microns brushpens will begin to fray very quickly after several uses :(

Zirngibism: Brush pens in general I've never really felt comfortable using- the feeling is a lot different than an actual brush. Does sakura sell ink bottles by chance?

AdamGillespie: What brand of india ink are you using? How long did you let it set before using marker over it? Also, I do a LOT of layering with a lot of colors in short spans of time which wets the paper more and has always seemed to smear the ink. :(


I used Speedball for those 2. I did all the ink first and it dried really really fast, probably about 2-3 mins its safe to go over it.

[t0po.inc]

I've only used winsor&newton inks with prismacolor makers once on this: http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/niyco2/artgrind/hereitcomes.png
and the only problem I had was that the markers couldn't seep well over the black ink.
I used watercolor paper, so maybe that made a difference, but I didn't experience any smudging unless the paper was still wet from the ink.

[Ahkahna]

Hmm, it must just be me then- I suppose I just get too excited over coloring and don't hold over enough patience to let it all dry thoroughly.

I'll give it a shot again, this time I'll ink something and let it set for a day.

Thanks guys :)

[Rabid]

I would suggest changing you paper if none of these suggestions work as well. Beinfang 360 is nice for this kind fo work. but sometimes you just need to air it out for a few hours like they said.

[CCThrom]

I haven't attempted velum yet, so I may see about that.

Don't buy a big pad first... get 1 or 2 sheets of different manufacture if you can, you may love vellum or you may hate it. Vellum has a very smooth surface that can be resistant to inks. It readily picks up oil from your fingers, creating "puddly" areas that won't take the ink. Also it's often not quite white and may alter the color of your markers. On the plus side, it'll take quill pen scratching nicely and will definitly not damage your marker tips.

You can try using a hairdryer to speed your drying time. BTW - because it doesn't absorb well, vellum takes longer to dry completely than cardstock.

[Ahkahna]

Don't buy a big pad first... get 1 or 2 sheets of different manufacture if you can, you may love vellum or you may hate it. Vellum has a very smooth surface that can be resistant to inks. It readily picks up oil from your fingers, creating "puddly" areas that won't take the ink. Also it's often not quite white and may alter the color of your markers. On the plus side, it'll take quill pen scratching nicely and will definitly not damage your marker tips.

You can try using a hairdryer to speed your drying time. BTW - because it doesn't absorb well, vellum takes longer to dry completely than cardstock.
I remember in college having to use vellum and it drove me nuts, but so did using a nib and a brush (which I love now). You know, as easy as an idea as a hairdryer is, I'm surprised it never occurred to me to even use it! x_x

[CCThrom]

as easy as an idea as a hairdryer is, I'm surprised it never occurred to me to even use it

Hairdryer is an old watercolorist's trick... just make sure you don't get the airstream too close... don't want it to push the liquid ink around on your page.

Something you might try in addition to vellum is "paper for pens". Yup, that's actually what it's called. 2 companies make it - Pentalic or Borden & Riley. Both equally good IMO. I really like the stuff... it's great for either quill pen or brush, but I've never tried color markers on it. Not good for water wash.

[RyerOrdStar]

What about a thick rag like Stonehenge ?

[Ahkahna]

That's why I was surprised it didn't occur to me considering I've used a hair drier in the past to dry my watercolors X_X

I'll definitely look up the Paper for Pens :3