commentary on american foreign policy

[lemuren]

Oilpainting 122 x 122 cm. It is called Clint Eastwood on red background. What do you think?



http://www.lemuren.dk/images/rune/malerier/rbnimg06.jpg


visit the lemurs webpage (http://www.lemuren.dk/)

[jarvis2824]

If you hadn't told me that is was aimed at our foreign policy, I wouldn't have gotten it. Is there any thing you could have added that would tell us that visually without the precursor text? You might want to try and put that in. It would also probably make the message a little clearer.

Sincerely,
Chris

[nardfrog]

I dont get it.

But, on a side note, GO AMERICA!! WOOHOO!

Anyone who resents america should take a look at how many countries we've bailed out and how many billions of dollars we given out and how many MILLIONS of imagrants we let live in our country for refuge from their own land where humans life is treated 100 times worse than any damage we have inflicted open those countries.

[bat]

Again I agree with the 'frog wholeheartedly. And while I get the gist of the piece, which is well executed and high impact, I don't see the message as negative, which I am sure it was meant to be. Civilizations have risen and fallen over the centuries, some we will never know, it is human nature to protect your interests, and violence is the most direct route. Hell, I think Iraq could be state number 51. Whatever happened to Expansionism?

bat

[NOOSE]

LOL... when the hell is mars going to be ready....

[Monkeyburger]

The thought of this wonderful forum turning into a political debate forum really scares me, I've seen it happen to many other cool places on the net. On the other hand I am forced to reply to the original poster and his political statement and this:

I dont get it.

But, on a side note, GO AMERICA!! WOOHOO!

Anyone who resents america should take a look at how many countries we've bailed out and how many billions of dollars we given out and how many MILLIONS of imagrants we let live in our country for refuge from their own land where humans life is treated 100 times worse than any damage we have inflicted open those countries.

I'm gonna hold myself back from saying what I really think and simply state that you are not the most intelligent person to waste good oxygen if you are truly this naive. America along with most other western civillised countries still hold poverty stricken third world countries national debt even though they have paid off the original amount many times over. This is why they are still in abject poverty. This third world debt makes the "billions of dollars given out" look like absolute PEANUTS! Don't get me wrong this is true of most western countries not just America. But if you REALLY think that America has done good for the world then I have to say your delusional. America and Britain has had its finger in every pie going since the second world war. To think anything else is to be blinded by patriotism, a disease I have had to face A HELL OF A LOT living in Scotland.

And to the origianl poster, I like your pic, its very cool, very striking. But... I don't agree with the sentiment in which it was written. It pisses me off no end the way european countries endlessly bash America as if it were the source of all evil. It must feel real good to demonise a nation to absolve yourself from blame for the shitiness of the modern world. Its funny that france and russia are the two countries that would lose the most financially through the war and it just so happens to be the two countries who lead the european opposition to the war.

Oh and:

Hell, I think Iraq could be state number 51.

How many US marines are killed everday in the state you live in?

Yeah, lets go back to imperialism man, that would be sweet yeah? Nothing like a bit of WAR to make you feel good about yourself is there? Thats an ACE idea, more bloodshed thats what I say! Whats wrong with that?

[marc-pierre]

200 % agree with monkeyburger :)

I think this policy of supporting countries on the one hand- and then declare them 'evil' afterwards on the other just sucks. How could anyone rely on a country acting like this???

And especially in the case of america it should be reminded that, the more power u got - the more responsibility comes along with it. (at least that's how it should be)

btw. nice pic - though the letters seem too sloppy to me :D

PS: sry 4 bad english

[NOOSE]

I was reading this thread and a song we all know by a once popular american band, came on the radio and half way through I started paying attention to the words and though "HOLY HELL this songs like 15 years old and right to the bloody point" so I tagged the lyrics, some of you might find it eerie how well they pertain to todays world...and someone will probably slam me for not agreeing 100% with the state of the middle east...oh well

Look at your young men fighting
Look at your women crying
Look at your young men dying
The way they've always done before


Look at the hate we're breeding
Look at the fear we're feeding
Look at the lives we're leading
The way we've always done before


My hands are tied
The billions shift from side to side
And the wars go on with brainwashed pride
For the love of God and our human rights
And all these things are swept aside
By bloody hands time can't deny
And are washed away by your genocide
And history hides the lies of our civil wars


D'you wear a black armband
When they shot the man
Who said "Peace could last forever"
And in my first memories
They shot Kennedy
I went numb when I learned to see
So I never fell for Vietnam
We got the wall of D.C. to remind us all
That you can't trust freedom
When it's not in your hands
When everybody's fightin'
For their promised land


And
I don't need your civil war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war


Look at the shoes your filling
Look at the blood we're spilling
Look at the world we're killing
The way we've always done before
Look in the doubt we've wallowed
Look at the leaders we've followed
Look at the lies we've swallowed
And I don't want to hear no more


My hands are tied
For all I've seen has changed my mind
But still the wars go on as the years go by
With no love of God or human rights
'Cause all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars


"We practice selective annihilation of mayors
And government officials
For example to create a vacuum
Then we fill that vacuum
As popular war advances
Peace is closer


I don't need your civil war
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
And I don't need your civil war
I don't need your civil war
I don't need your civil war
Your power hungry sellin' soldiers
In a human grocery store
Ain't that fresh
I don't need your civil war
I don't need one more war


I don't need one more war
Whaz so civil 'bout war anyway....

[bat]

Originally posted by Monkeyburger
The thought of this wonderful forum turning into a political debate forum really scares me, I've seen it happen to many other cool places on the net.


I agree heartily there and believe we should agree to disagree before ugly debate gets people at each other's throats.




How many US marines are killed everday in the state you live in?

Yeah, lets go back to imperialism man, that would be sweet yeah? Nothing like a bit of WAR to make you feel good about yourself is there? Thats an ACE idea, more bloodshed thats what I say! Whats wrong with that?

While your first questions are poignant, I will reply thusly: I would rather, if they must give their lives, it be at least for something rather than just fueling the egos of those in charge. Taxpayer money is what keeps them over there, and we have no returns, and will have none at this pace, therefore Expansionism would at least make sense. I despise the fact that a given process -conquer-take what the enemy had- is frowned upon because it is politically incorrect in parts of the world. If you are going to war, make it hurt your enemy. Kick them hard, take them down and take what they have, it used to be standard operating procedure. However, opinions vary, I am not opposed to war, not because I am an American, but because I am unashamedly human and as such, I will form my own opinions, not just fall in line with what is trendy (which I am not accusing you of, but I see everyday). It's already a sick world, you can be part of a plot that killed thousands and a judge can protect you from the death penalty and tell the government where to go and you can be mentally ill and snap and kill one person in the aftermath of a national tragedy and get a death sentence handed to you on a silver platter. There are no more absolutes. Nothing you can rely on anymore. But I digress, back to art. We can agree to disagree and hold no bad blood, or we can bicker like children, I vote for the former.

(See how good this piece is, it sparks conversation)

bat

[madphill]

Doing a controversial piece simply because the subject matter is current and heated, doesn't make it a good piece. The piece is clouded. It is very pop-art-esque. It's hard to tell if you are pro or anti American policy. Not that it's a bad thing. That is just my take on it. On the political issues..hell, I think America is doing a fine job. When is the last time you read about The Roman Empire giving foreign aid?? HELLS no. Saddam needed to be brought from power...he sucked. Why are everyone's panties in a bunch, because we had the nuts to go in and do it?

[grinn]

I live in America. I live here because to my knowledge it is my favorite place to live.

I dont feel bad living in America, I dont worry that we are some evil tyrant in the World.

Because we're not.

We are big, yes, but not evil.

I like to study the way different newspapers say different things. I read newspapers from france with the help of a friend of mine, and some others around the World when we can translate them. Quite frankly everyone has their own story.

There is a lot of over-exageration and untruthfullnes in both our papers and foreign ones. I can see where many of you develope such anomosity without any real knowledge. Because thats how I used to be. But I got over it now and just don't worry about that kind of thing. I know our country isn't evil, I know we are no tyrant, I know that we want the world to be better not just for us, but for everyone.

Not to say that I have real knowledge now. I am not sitting in Baghdad or anything. I live in a small beach city south of Los Angeles. But my life is good, and America makes that happen. I trust America to keep it that way. And if they cant I will do what I can to keep it that way.

I have no hate for our foreign policy. I sometimes wish we would take action more often, and sooner. But those are not concerns for me to worry about. I could never side with the protesters I see, because they never have an intelligent thing to say. Never a comprehensible arguement, just flat out stupid accusations and a bunch of signs.

Let me tell you, most protesters in America don't care one way or the other, they just want someone to see them protesting. Its sad, because there ARE some people out there with good reasons and good arguements against things like the war in Iraq. But the protesters dumb them down.

I have seen some pretty intense images trying to strike at Americas foreign policy in the past. Its nothing new to me, but I just dont really care about them. Most are unfounded and ridiculous.

[Monkeyburger]

As I say I am against the continual America bashing. It is just demonising to make yourself feel good about your own country. I live in Britain and in my opinion its western society as a whole that sucks ass. I just hate patriotism I guess, in my view its absolutely pointless for us all and clouds our judgement over what action should be taken. Scotland is RIFE with patriotism, far more than America I'd say and I'm just sick to death of it.

I agree that this is no debating forum and this is just getting in our way of trying appreciate art and learn. I am sorry if I have offended any by expressing my beliefs so viemently.

[ClocktowerArtworks]

i say bring on the meteors to blow us all off the face of this rock...thought this thread could use a third point of view. cheers all. keep fighting the "good fight."

[madphill]

I remember distinctly reading about hoards of Scotts and Irish flocking to America during the Civil War...yeah..patriotism for your country seems to be sky rocketing.

[bwkeough]

When I first saw this post with no comments I considered replying. I decided against it because I don't come here to participate in political discussion.

As a painting, it's just ok. Beyond the average rendering, lettering and color choices, its a pretty much a direct copy of the two movie promo pics below.

http://www.nand.net/~keough/dirtyharry1.jpg
http://www.nand.net/~keough/dirtyharry2.jpg

[nardfrog]

First: Sorry for diverting the attention away from your art and towards a debate about the ethics of western civilization, and in my eyes, the effects of a capitolist society.

Second: Monkeyburger, Its nice you think only bashing on america is wrong, but your point is completely shadowed by the fact you open your post with a direct attack and ASSUMPTION that I am not intelligent simply because I belive my country tries to help better other countries and their lives.

For you to say we (america) have done no good in the world is insulting. Imagine where france and britain would be right now. If you dont recall we bailed them out of TWO world wars, and if you think thats bullshit, then you, my insulting friend, are the one who is naive. And to think anything else, is to be blinded by your own stupidity.

To all foreign counties:
Is america perfect?! Hell no but im willing to bet if you took an HONEST and UNBIASED look at your own county, its track record aint so great either. So worrie about fixing your own country, and when all of your success has brought your country to great heights, america will follow your lead :)

[lemuren]

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - At least 3,240 civilians died across Iraq during a month of war, including 1,896 in Baghdad, according to a five-week Associated Press investigation.

American Casualties in Iraq as of October 23, 2003: 340
source:DoD (http://www.defenselink.mil/) (department of defense)

“We don’t do body counts”
-General Tommy Franks, US Central Command

A war for freedom? A political statement?, an oilpainting?, a spark?, a provocation?, Pop-art?, just cause?, love hate or both?, sloppy lettering?, naive?, anti-american?, american fascism?, narrowmindedness?, Dity Harry filmposter with three letters and a red background?

[NOOSE]

"A war for freedom? A political statement?, an oilpainting?, a spark?, a provocation?, Pop-art?, just cause?, love hate or both?, sloppy lettering?, naive?, anti-american?, american fascism?, narrowmindedness?, Dity Harry filmposter with three letters and a red background?"

lol
I think you were succesful in what you were going for :)

off the political issues...(I have never bit my tongue so much in my life!!)


I think your guy looks to have some stalone features to him
kind of a cross between clint and sly :)
I find that neat

[nardfrog]

I still dont get it. I understand YOUR veiws about the war becuase you have stateed them, but i do not think that picture explains anything about america's foreign policy without you explaining it.

Yes, this thread did spark contriversy but i dont think its from your poster, more likely from my opening remarks.

[Monkeyburger]

Hey Nardfrog

I am really sorry to insult you dude! I get really carried away sometimes. There was no exscuse. I don't think your stupid, it was just a way of expressing how stronglly I feel over the matter. This is why I don't like political debates, they bring out the worst in me.

[Monkeyburger]

I remember distinctly reading about hoards of Scotts and Irish flocking to America during the Civil War...yeah..patriotism for your country seems to be sky rocketing.

Dude, I don't quite get what your saying here... Are you trying to say that Scotland isn't patiotic because of a migration during the civil war?... I don't get it. Could you explain your point with more clarity?..

[Monkeyburger]

If you dont recall we bailed them out of TWO world wars, and if you think thats bullshit, then you, my insulting friend, are the one who is naive.

I'm sorry dude, but America only came into the war when it absolutely had to. We were sitting in the front line holding out for the liberty of europe far before most of america would even conceed the blitz on London was actually happening. Britain could have made peace with hitler and sat it out quite comfortably through the war. But no, we stuck it in his craw since day one, because thats what we believed was the right thing to do. Oh and then you had us pay for all the aid and equipment you gave us to fight germany afterwards with interest even though we were economically crippled. :rolleyes:

[CleptoCat]

Man I really hate to jump into this but MonkeyBurger if you honestly think that Hitler and Peace are two ideas that could of ever happenened, you need to get yourself some books on Psychology and Sociology. That would of never happened. Secondly even if it did happen, peace would only of come when britain bacame communist and only then.

[Maximillion]

Interesting, very interesting.
I like the painting, I don't think it's a direct copy of the Dirty Harry picture, yet I believe it was inspired by them.
It is a statement of the USA and I can see it being foreign policy related, although this might be because of all the comments written so far.

As far as the comments on American foreign policy, it is, in fact, outrageous and self centred. The United States has never done anything altruistically. They do it for their own interests, and it survives by keeping other countries starving and in poverty, manipulating, instilling and supporting horrible dictators in 3rd world countries to suit their needs. It seems the government maintains this by allowing its own people to have the lowest level of education ON AVERAGE in any first world country.
Now The US has done international things that are essential to helping the world move in the right direction and I feel, as a Canadian, that we wouldn't be able to live the safe, peaceful and generally open minded lives we do without the US beside us. (Mexico is not so lucky)

The bottom line here is that there are many, many countries that are horrible to each other and their people.
In my opinion, the US is on that list. NOT because they've done the worst things ever, but because I KNOW that the American people are smarter then this, and have the power, money and education to really do good in the world, if they chose. It is too bad so many are so manipulated by a government they didn't even elect.

[Bathgate66]

I don't think America can truly be America without exploiting third world countries. It's impossible. In this world, someone has to do the hardwork and the person doing the work isn't always necessarily the one who benefits from it. I don't blame America for what it has become, afterall they are fulfilling their part in a contrived cycle of 'life'.

[GiantPanda]

This got a bit long. The first two paragraphs are about the use of Dirty Harry as an icon, the following two about history and the rest are some responses to previous posters opinions and some of my own

As noted the use of Dirty Harry gives different people different associations, which if it was intended obviously is good even if Im doubtful that it was.
As a character DH is the last defence against a corrupt world (in his own view at least), someone who does not stick to the rules to achieve results, a pragmatist. He doesnt listen to the advice of others and often outright ignores them for his own ideas. But he is, in some respects at least, a good person, a hero.

In other words, those who see this as positive sees an icon of Americas will to act against terrorism no matter the cost, and that it must do so even in the oposition of others if it is deemed right.
Those who see it as a negative icon sees America ignoring the rest of the worlds opinion and disregarding the rules set up, a loose cannon spraying bullets that sooner or later is bound to hit someone innocent.

Some notes on what has been said.
Anyone using the Roman empire as a reference needs to check up on his/hers history. There was A LOT of unpleasanties going around in the empire, civil wars, mad dictators, constant war with foreign powers, financial instability and so on.

Hitler actually wanted an alliace with Brittain, whom he saw as a brotherpeople (until they declared war on him). Brittain could probably have stayed out of the war if it hadnt certain responsibilities against other nations.


Hell no but im willing to bet if you took an HONEST and UNBIASED look at your own county, its track record aint so great either. So worrie about fixing your own country, and when all of your success has brought your country to great heights, america will follow your lead

I strongly agree with this.


But I got over it now and just don't worry about that kind of thing. I know our country isn't evil, I know we are no tyrant, I know that we want the world to be better not just for us, but for everyone.


Now this is what makes so many europeans nervous.
Just because a country isnt an evil dictatorship now doesnt mean it cant turn into one. Do you think Germany, Japan, Italy, Spain and all the other countries that have histories of dictatorships are inherently evil? Both Hitler and Mussolini were elected after all.
Freedom isnt something that exist without maintenance and hard work (especially watchfullness).

Do I think a war was the only way of getting rid of the Saddam regime: yes
Do I think it was absolutely necessary to invade right away and flipp most of the world the finger while doing it: No

[nardfrog]

Well for the most part i think everyone has made some good points - pehaps not all agreable, but still very good arguements.

Monkey burger, dont worrie about it, I dont want anyone at this site to dislike me after I have stated my veiws on my country. And Likewise I am not offfended by the views others have. Its your opinion, and we all have the right to speak.

Politics are the last concern in my life right now so for me, these arguments are stictly for entertainment.

Keep posting great work everyone.