Fact: I have no idea what I'm doing

[GentleFood3]

I glanced through the employment forum and didn't come across anything relevant, and I figured this higher traffic area would net faster feedback

This isn't anything huge, but I'm pretty lost. I'm not even sure exactly what questions to ask. Basically, what's the point of doing unpaid gigs? Is it for networking purposes? Building experience? It doesn't seem like such a big deal in this case, but what about establishing how the work can be used, ownership, things like that?

I just got an email from a woman saying she's a freelance casting director currently working on grad student films on the side. They want some things like fliers and zines to appear in a Columbia MFA thesis project.

"Sadly there's no pay as this is a very low budget project. But it's always fun collaborating with other artists :)"

That little smiley face didn't win me over, but it sounds kind of interesting.

[BuckWeisel]

Go do it and find out.

[GentleFood3]

buck: Fair enough, I was really overthinking it.

[Elwell]

"Fun" can be good enough, and sometimes the best reason of all. The only real advantage a non-paying gig has over a paying one is that you can always walk away without losing anything if it's not fun.

[JL.Alfaro]

I think everyone has done the free gigs, I for one did it to build my portfolio, so the further the designs I made got, the better it made me look in my portfolio. Just remember that you are giving it away, once ts gone its gooone. Let it go and hope it succeeds.

unfortunately I changed direction in career so...that was in vain for me...meh

[Justice Von Brandt]

It's interesting how 99% of all graphic designers I've talked to say do nothing for free, ever. And you all so far say go for it.

What is the real advantage of doing free work other then social networking? If you have a kick ass portfolio does it really help you to say you did "this work, for that project".

[Elwell]

I'm certainly not saying "go for it."
What I am saying is that, in rare circumstances, there may be other compensation (such as fun) that can make up for the lack of payment. But of you feel that you're being taken advantage of, well, that's not fun, is it?

[Justice Von Brandt]

Fun doesn't pay the bills though.
I feel working for free cheapens yourself and all the other artists out there. It's like being a prostitute and charging nothing.

I'm not a professional artist, but last year I made a menu design and a poster for a local hair salon and it really did look like a professional menu (not to sound full of myself but I had it critiqued by my careers and art teachers and it approved of so to say) anyways, I spent hours on this thing and then did not use my design, they used someone elses. I felt so degraded :( I did all that work for nothing.

[Matsign]

Fun doesn't pay the bills though.
I feel working for free cheapens yourself and all the other artists out there. It's like being a prostitute and charging nothing.

I'm not a professional artist, but last year I made a menu design and a poster for a local hair salon and it really did look like a professional menu (not to sound full of myself but I had it critiqued by my careers and art teachers and it approved of so to say) anyways, I spent hours on this thing and then did not use my design, they used someone elses. I felt so degraded :( I did all that work for nothing.

As a freelancer, say you don't have a rep, or any solid clients come back to you. Doing a freelance gig for free could open some doors to you.

I don't see doing something for free to find new venues or opportunities as bad as lowering your rates under other artists just to get the job.

You're second paragraph reflects much of what doing freelance work is all about.

[Slash]

If it looks like a cool project, ask yourself if you'd be doing something to make money if you wasn't doing this. If you have no experience working with a team, joining a non paying project might provide quite a bit of insight into team dynamics, deadlines and working towards a unified universe/shape language/visual theme/etc.

Making games is my idea of fun, and I've met skilled people and learned a lot by doing non paying gigs. But then again i've seen a lot of so called "teams" that doesn't have the passion or stamina to pull through a big project. A lot of them die out after the initial concepting stage, since a lot of people like the IDEA of making games, but not the actual hard work required. But hey, even so you still have stuff for your portfolio.

However, if you CAN get paid for what you do there should be little doubt where your priorities should lie. Also, if anyone is making money off of the project, so should you.

[stoph]

Fun doesn't pay the bills though.
I feel working for free cheapens yourself and all the other artists out there. It's like being a prostitute and charging nothing.

I'm not a professional artist, but last year I made a menu design and a poster for a local hair salon and it really did look like a professional menu (not to sound full of myself but I had it critiqued by my careers and art teachers and it approved of so to say) anyways, I spent hours on this thing and then did not use my design, they used someone elses. I felt so degraded :( I did all that work for nothing.

you just like poking at society with a stick to see what kind of swarming reaction you get, dontcha kid? :P

every week for almost a year now i've spent at least 20 hours doing volunteer design work for the Salvation Army. i have also done paid freelance work. all things considered, i much prefer the unpaid work than the paid work. if youre a moral-driven person, its rewarding for the soul to give your time and talents to a worthy beneficiary. if morals dont concern you all that much, it definitely helps improve your abilities, not to mention wad your portfolio that little bit thicker. not having a salary-based career in art means that your creativity takes a backseat (as far as priorities are concerned) to your 9-5. because i've got this commitment to the Salvo's, it means that not only am i expanding my portfolio, but i'm corresponding with printers, i'm learning how to take vague ideas and turn them into visually concise and communicative designs, and i'm being given a chance to work under deadlines, which has improved my time management and overall output.

so GentleFood3, i can definitely recommend doing the work, provided you have time and you are prepared to put in the required effort. more often than not it will pay off in the long run.

[Jabo]

For yourself, doing unpaid jobs means you have to decide if it's worth it.

For others, you doing unpaid jobs means you're taking their job. Which isn't as unproblematic as it's often said it is. Everything that is done with profit in sight should be paid, no matter how much fun it is. People are making money with your work. So you're a) betraying yourself and b) betraying everyone else who could have done the work to earn some money for their living.

Not that I'm totally against it, but it should only be to build your portfolio or make initial connections for a later, paid gig. Doing free work for someone who will be earning money with your work later on, direct or indirect, shouldn't be a long time goal.

[CCThrom]

If you have a kick ass portfolio does it really help you to say you did "this work, for that project".

No it doesn't.

But if your portfolio isn't kickass yet, and such a project will help you "fill in the gaps" it might be worth doing. Some real-world experience is always beneficial.

On the other hand, some folks say your time is better spent figuring out for yourself what your portfolio needs and then doing the work for yourself. Ultimately it's up to you.

My rule of thumb is IF the work is something you really enjoy or really believe in, AND it will gain you some experience or portfolio building, then it's worth considering. What you DONT want to do is sign on to something because somebody else tells you it'll be good... and then spend your time feeling used. ONLY do free work if YOU want to do the work.

Believe me, I and everyone else in the field have received and declined many, MANY such work "offers". But every now and then, there'll be one that speaks to you... and that's ok.

[Justice Von Brandt]

you just like poking at society with a stick to see what kind of swarming reaction you get, dontcha kid? :P

every week for almost a year now i've spent at least 20 hours doing volunteer design work for the Salvation Army..

The salvation army and sneaky Italian hair salons are two different things :P

If the company can't afford to pay their employees then why are they even in business?
No one would call up a plumber and say "Yeah you know I'm on a low budget and I'm flipping a house so I can sell it and make profits, but I'm on a REALLY low budget....will you do it for free?"

[Serpian]

It's like being a prostitute and charging nothing.

That's called a relationship. ;)

[Justice Von Brandt]

You're second paragraph reflects much of what doing freelance work is all about.

Not really, they should hire you from your portfolio not if they are going to like a design you made.
Theres a whole movement against this
http://www.no-spec.com/articles/what-is-spec/
http://www.no-spec.com/articles/just-say-no/

[janni]

There are two kinds of unpaid jobs.

First, real non-profit low- or no-budget projects. You can recognize these easily. A group of people work together for fun and sheer love and enthusiasm for the project or a good cause. Nobody gets paid. If there's an unexpected profit (like festival price money) everybody should get his fair share. If there's an budget it's used for resources like materials for sets or a camera or whatever - the stuff you usually can't get for free.

Second - unpaid jobs where lots of people get paid but they dont want to pay you or try to get you cheap. That's the kinda job you want avoid. Kick those guys asses. May they burn and rot in hell.
Seriously though, i'd always ask if somebody's approaching me to work for free or cheap, if the project is non-profit. Then i'd consider if the project could be fun, if i can squeeze it into my schedule, if the experience could be useful, if my portfolio needs it, in general if i do get this tickling sensation in my belly when i think about working on that project.

well thinking about it... there's probably another case. working for free as an intern to learn and make connections if your are an entry level artist or coming out of school, that's a cool thing to gather experience and learn if you pick the right company. and usually there is a small payment too.

[alesoun]

My first consideration in work is always "is it going to put food on the table?"
If that criteria is filled and I have time to spare is "is it a worthwhile cause?"
I have charities I believe in, I'll work for for nothing.
Those two criteria aren't met, the next is "do I want to do it? Will it be fun or stretch me to try?"
Bearing in mind that you're doing it for free, if it isn't fun to try, you don't want to do it, you can't put it in your portfolio.- why would you bother? You're the only one who can answer that.

[J Wilson]

Be very picky about free work. There are a number of decent reasons you may decide to do free work that are legit.
A) Fun, as you mentioned. Hey, life should have some fun in it! It can't all be about the money. Do this only if you really think you'll enjoy it.
B) Good cause. Same as donating money, except you are donating time and skills. Good for the soul.
C) Exposure. Consider this one very carefully, as a lot of people will try to sell you on working for free "for exposure" and it usually ends up a waste of time. Consider how the art will be used and the chances of people you want to see your work actually seeing it. Demand not only your name on it, but your contact info. Sometimes you do things for reason A or B, but C ends up being a nice side benefit, and so I'll usually weight A or B over C. Small busnieses looking to get work done cheap don't usually count.
D) Networking. If this is someone who does work with different people and organizations it may be a good person to get to know. Help them out on a project with a small (or no) budget, and then when they have a more substancial project come up you may come to mind again. Or the next time someone they know is looking for a artist they may mention you. This is again often great if it's combined with reason A or B. Small busnieses looking to get work done cheap don't usually count.
E) Exchange of services. Bargain for non monetary payment. People often have other things they can more easily part with. A freelance casting director, for example, might be able to hook you up with models for a reference shoot. I've done work for books to read, or tickets to events. Don't be afraid to bargain.

[CGMonkey]

I work for free if it's a project that a) gives tangable results and b) I'm personally passionate about. Some times it's not both but that's fine with me.

Where I'm working now is a direct cause of me working on free projects, having fun and showing passion.

DO IT!

[DavePalumbo]

Always remember that, if you're doing a free job for the sake of building your portfolio, you don't need to be working for someone else to do that. While it may be helpful to get some AD experience, you'll likely make much better and more appropriate portfolio pieces when you're not answering to someone else. Also, working for free often inhibits people from giving that 110% that you need to be pushing when building your portfolio (and of course for the rest of your career that follows).

Unless you're pursuing a line of work that requires a collaborative effort, I believe that the best portfolio work comes from personal solo projects.

I do, however, agree with all of J Wilson's points. Those are the reason that you should give work for "free"

[J Wilson]

As an additional note about working for free, make sure your work is a good representation of your skills and abilities even on these free projects. You never know who will see something. If you are going to do work, always make sure it's something you can be proud of regardless of the pay, because it's your rep on the line.

[Tony0930]

"Fun" can never be the determing factor.We need payment to value and prove your skills. But if you think this project is worthy your time and also you can gain something from it more than money, just go for it.
Remenber,"Fun" can never be the determing factor.

[TheDirtSyndicate]

sure it can tony
i bumped into Chino Moreno from the deftones at a grocery store once and told him i'd be willing to do cd cover for them for free. gave him a card told him to check out my design work (which i dont have online right now)
im a fan, and that would have been lots of fun if it had panned out. not to mention the awesome amounts of exposure i would have gotten and possible friends that could have been made.

btw, i feel that if you're working spec, you have the most say so over what is done. i wouldn't feel even the slightest bit bad about telling the client "no" on something. and if they pushed i would just say "ya know what, you aren't paying me. if you want that change done, pay me."

[GentleFood3]

I just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to respond. There's been a lot of good input and it's interesting to see people's different opinions.

As for the job, I'm still debating. It seems to be amateur hour for all involved so I've got some time. I've never had to take another person's ideas and make something out of it so it could be good experience. Then there's the chance of future work/networking. If nothing else, I'd learn what it's like to be screwed over.

As for the ideas I'd be working with:
"One of the flyers is for a metal/rock musician/poet who takes himself very seriously (nailed to a rose rather than a cross, in the style of the gimp image combined with some harder elements"

"The zine...should feature a cat in some capacity"

ouch. Anyway, if anyone else has more thoughts about free gigs, feel free to keep posting.